When working through the 1961 Formula Junior results I came across this pseudonym. "Jupp Schmitz" came fifth in the Eifelrennen on the old Nürburgring Südschleife, which surely was an outstanding performance together with his 6th best qualification time. So hardly a "gentleman driver". His car was a Lotus-Ford 18 entered by Scuderia Colonia, which together with his pseudonym (a VERY MUCH Cologne name) point at him being from the Cologne area. He did not appear again that season in a German championship event, but there were other pseudonyms like "Franz Müller" or "Robert Frank" . Does anybody know the real names of these gentlemen?
Who is "Jupp Schmitz"
Started by
Udo K.
, Oct 06 2001 11:50
32 replies to this topic
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#2
Marcor
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Posted 06 October 2001 - 16:35
"Taffy" von Trips was involved (indirectly ?) in the Scuderia Colonia (with a C or a K, I've seen sometimes Colonia and Kolonia ?). But for sure it couldn't be him !!! He drove in F2 for the team (1960).
#3
Udo K.
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Posted 06 October 2001 - 16:48
Yes, Marc, I do not rule von Trips out, even if he was driving in Formula 1 in 1961, of course. But he was involved with Scuderia Colonia (with a "C" is correct) and he did some Junior races the years before. And it would go along with his sense of humor...
Any other suggestions?
Any other suggestions?
#4
David McKinney
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Posted 06 October 2001 - 17:55
Can't help with the identity of Herr Schmitz, except to say that the other Scuderia Colonia mainstay was Wolfgang Seidel. Was this race during the ban on his driving discussed recently in another thread?
"Franz Muller" was Roman Dirschl, "Robert Frank" was W Koenig (or König?)
"Franz Muller" was Roman Dirschl, "Robert Frank" was W Koenig (or König?)
#5
Marcor
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Posted 07 October 2001 - 14:35
The ban was after the 1962 German GP...
#6
Udo K.
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Posted 10 October 2001 - 16:20
So our friend Jupp Schmitz remains a mystery...
Thanks David for the other two. Here is the next one:
In the Italian FJunior Championship of 1961 we had a driver called
"Haris" (according to Orsini's book) or maybe "Harris".
Best result was a 7th at Collemaggio, which earned him 4 championship points. Any ideas?
Udo
Thanks David for the other two. Here is the next one:
In the Italian FJunior Championship of 1961 we had a driver called
"Haris" (according to Orsini's book) or maybe "Harris".
Best result was a 7th at Collemaggio, which earned him 4 championship points. Any ideas?
Udo
#7
David McKinney
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Posted 10 October 2001 - 18:49
No, sorry, can't help with that one either.
The Sheldon/Rabagliati/de la Gorce book simply lists him as "Haris" (Taraschi)
The Sheldon/Rabagliati/de la Gorce book simply lists him as "Haris" (Taraschi)
#8
Udo K.
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Posted 11 October 2001 - 14:44
Thanks to the Formel3register.de the answer is found:
Marcor you were on the right path. It was Wolfgang von Trips using this pseudonym for this one and only race.
Marcor you were on the right path. It was Wolfgang von Trips using this pseudonym for this one and only race.
#9
Roger Clark
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Posted 11 October 2001 - 17:58
Originally posted by Udo K.
Thanks to the Formel3register.de the answer is found:
Marcor you were on the right path. It was Wolfgang von Trips using this pseudonym for this one and only race.
He needed a pseudonym. He was a graded driver, and they weren't allowed in Formula Junior.
#10
Marcor
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Posted 11 October 2001 - 18:10
Did the organisers know who was "Jupp Schmitz" before the start of the race ? And the press ? Was it seen as a joke ? What did Ferrari think about it ?
#11
Roger Clark
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Posted 11 October 2001 - 18:17
Von Trips was (quite!) well known in Germany; it's surprising if he wasn't recognised.
#12
David McKinney
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Posted 11 October 2001 - 18:23
Originally posted by Roger Clark
He needed a pseudonym. He was a graded driver, and they weren't allowed in Formula Junior.
IIRC, a graded driver could compete only in events of international status outside his own country. Thus Jack Brabham could race in National status events in Australia, but not anywhere else. And von Trips could do likewise in Germany.
Having said that, I suspect Roger's contention is right, and that FJ regs specifically precluded participation by graded drivers.
#13
Roger Clark
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Posted 12 October 2001 - 06:48
I don't think Jupp Schmitz can have been von Trips. The Eifelrennen was the same day as the Targa Florio which he won.
#14
Udo K.
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Posted 21 October 2001 - 11:00
Roger,
you seem to be right here, Roger. v. Trips won the Targa on April 30th, a fact, we obviously overlooked. The Eifelrennen took place on the same weekend. So, is the Formel3Register wrong? Or did the Junior race take place on Saturday, giving v. Trips the chance to fly to Sicily in time for the Targa? If this was the case, he needed the pseudonym, as he was about to drive two races within 24 hours, which, to my knowledge, was not allowed at that time.
The mystery remains. Anybody having the von Trips biography book? Maybe we can find an answer there.
you seem to be right here, Roger. v. Trips won the Targa on April 30th, a fact, we obviously overlooked. The Eifelrennen took place on the same weekend. So, is the Formel3Register wrong? Or did the Junior race take place on Saturday, giving v. Trips the chance to fly to Sicily in time for the Targa? If this was the case, he needed the pseudonym, as he was about to drive two races within 24 hours, which, to my knowledge, was not allowed at that time.
The mystery remains. Anybody having the von Trips biography book? Maybe we can find an answer there.
#15
Roger Clark
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Posted 21 October 2001 - 13:07
Udo,
Having looked at the Formel3Register site, I think it is indicating that von Trips was the entrant, not the driver. It gives the entrant as Scuderia Colonia(Von Trips) indicating that he was the power behind the Scuderia, which I believe he was. I have to admit that my German is not brilliant though. Is there somewhere else on the site that indicates he was the driver?
Having looked at the Formel3Register site, I think it is indicating that von Trips was the entrant, not the driver. It gives the entrant as Scuderia Colonia(Von Trips) indicating that he was the power behind the Scuderia, which I believe he was. I have to admit that my German is not brilliant though. Is there somewhere else on the site that indicates he was the driver?
#16
Udo K.
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Posted 21 October 2001 - 14:17
Nothing else, Roger,
your way of interpretation is a possible one. von Trips was involved in the Scuderia Colonia so it might be possible, he was the entrant.
But the driver was definetely not an "amateur" according to his grid time and race performance.
your way of interpretation is a possible one. von Trips was involved in the Scuderia Colonia so it might be possible, he was the entrant.
But the driver was definetely not an "amateur" according to his grid time and race performance.
#17
Marcor
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Posted 21 October 2001 - 19:05
And what about Michael May ? He drove for the scuderia in F1 until his crash during practice of the 1961 German GP...
#18
Michael Müller
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Posted 26 October 2001 - 07:21
Could not find anything about "Jupp Schmitz", also not in the Födisch / Louis von Trips biography. But as Udo said already, "Jupp Schmitz" is a typical Cologne name, not so much in reality, but in jokes and funny stories about Cologne and its inhabitants. So the use of this name as real pseudonym was useless, as everybody would know immediately that it's a funny pseudo only. The background could either be a joke or a bet, and as von Trips was on Sicily, only Seidel remains as "Jupp Schmitz". Other well-known German drivers in my opinion could be excluded, as "Jupp Schmitz" is so much "Cologne coloured", that only someone from this area could have the idea to use it.
#19
Nellchen
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Posted 26 October 2001 - 09:10
Do you want to know, what I firstly thought about, when I read "Jupp Schmitz"? In the same time (early sixties) a musician with that name was quite famous in Germany.
But, okay, musician would maybe a little bit too positive. He wrote carneval songs (I guess(!) they should be funny).
But I think this isn't the same person. In that time he was a little bit too old (>50!? I don't know it exactly).
So, I don't know how many german speaking users are involved here, but this is what I've found with german search engines:
A used pseudo by von Trips was "Axel Linther" (1954).
That's all....
But, okay, musician would maybe a little bit too positive. He wrote carneval songs (I guess(!) they should be funny).
But I think this isn't the same person. In that time he was a little bit too old (>50!? I don't know it exactly).
So, I don't know how many german speaking users are involved here, but this is what I've found with german search engines:
A used pseudo by von Trips was "Axel Linther" (1954).
That's all....
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#20
ry6
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Posted 26 October 2001 - 10:15
Last nite after commenting on Scuderia Colonia I went into Yahoo and found two sites.
One in German and one in English mainly on W v Trips.
Can some of our German speakers please have a look at the German site. Maybe there will be a few answers?
One in German and one in English mainly on W v Trips.
Can some of our German speakers please have a look at the German site. Maybe there will be a few answers?
#21
Udo K.
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Posted 26 October 2001 - 10:25
Yes, Michael, your clue could be the right one. I also think it must have been a joke or a bet, whatever the background was. As the real JUPP SCHMITZ was an elderly carnival singer from Cologne (I even remember some of his song titles), the idea of the pseudo was maybe born during carnival time at Cologne. And everybody who is familiar with this sort of entertainment will know, that every joke was possible...So maybe Wolfgang Seidel??? He was from Düsseldorf, if I have it right. Cologne and Düsseldorf were great rivals as far as "carnival" is concerned...So a Düsseldorf driver using a Cologne carnival singer's pseudonym? Maybe. Again: Trips had a big sense of humour.
Ry6 - could you give us the internet address of the two site you have found?
Ry6 - could you give us the internet address of the two site you have found?
#22
fines
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Posted 26 October 2001 - 19:51
I finally managed to browse some old "auto motor sport", but sadly there's not much to be found:
Nürburgring-Südschleife, 20 laps (154.9 km)
29 starters from 9 countries
wet track
1 Josef Siffert (Lotus), 1:16'43.4" (121.1 kph)
2 Denis Taylor (Lola), almost 2 minutes down
3 Kurt Ahrens Jr. (Lotus)
4 Rob Slotemaker (Lola)
FL Siffert, 3'30.2" (126.6 kph)
all other finishers lapped, no more details!
Main attraction of the day was the motorcycle races, which saw two fatal accidents, by popular Dickie Dale and Alfred Wohlgemuth, the sidecar passenger of World Champion Helmut Fath. [ams 11/61]
Btw, Scuderia Colonia was not the brainchild of Taffy Trips, but entirely Wolfgang Seidel's enterprise! He owned all four cars, i.e. one F1 Cooper, F1 Lotus, Ferrari 250GT and Lotus Elite each, and was planning to acquire an F1 Porsche as well. Team manager was his spouse, Margot Seidel. [ams 10/61]
The same issue reports that Michael May, employee of the "Versuchsabteilung" of the Daimler-Benz AG, invested a "horrendous sum" in the Scuderia Colonia, in order to race in the World Drivers Championship in 1961. He was also planning to take an engineering degree at the "Technische Hochschule" Stuttgart that year, with a dissertation on fuel injection!
Nürburgring-Südschleife, 20 laps (154.9 km)
29 starters from 9 countries
wet track
1 Josef Siffert (Lotus), 1:16'43.4" (121.1 kph)
2 Denis Taylor (Lola), almost 2 minutes down
3 Kurt Ahrens Jr. (Lotus)
4 Rob Slotemaker (Lola)
FL Siffert, 3'30.2" (126.6 kph)
all other finishers lapped, no more details!
Main attraction of the day was the motorcycle races, which saw two fatal accidents, by popular Dickie Dale and Alfred Wohlgemuth, the sidecar passenger of World Champion Helmut Fath. [ams 11/61]
Btw, Scuderia Colonia was not the brainchild of Taffy Trips, but entirely Wolfgang Seidel's enterprise! He owned all four cars, i.e. one F1 Cooper, F1 Lotus, Ferrari 250GT and Lotus Elite each, and was planning to acquire an F1 Porsche as well. Team manager was his spouse, Margot Seidel. [ams 10/61]
The same issue reports that Michael May, employee of the "Versuchsabteilung" of the Daimler-Benz AG, invested a "horrendous sum" in the Scuderia Colonia, in order to race in the World Drivers Championship in 1961. He was also planning to take an engineering degree at the "Technische Hochschule" Stuttgart that year, with a dissertation on fuel injection!
#23
Udo K.
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Posted 26 October 2001 - 20:43
Yes, Michael
and fifth was.....JUPP SCHMITZ
and fifth was.....JUPP SCHMITZ
#24
ry6
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Posted 28 October 2001 - 10:58
Dear Udo
I am not an expert on this but what I did was to go on Yahoo and type search for "Scuderia Colonia".
Try it and see what comes up.
Otherwise I will get a more expert computer person to work out the site addresses.
Regards
Rob
I am not an expert on this but what I did was to go on Yahoo and type search for "Scuderia Colonia".
Try it and see what comes up.
Otherwise I will get a more expert computer person to work out the site addresses.
Regards
Rob
#25
ry6
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Posted 14 January 2002 - 18:14
It has been suggested on the "Graded Drivers" thread that Wolfgang Seidel may have been the man?
Does anyone have any pictures of the car raced by Jupp?
I am keen to see if the car had any "chequered tape" adornment as I have recently been given some photos of Wolfgang Seidel and his cars have what looks like chequered tape stripes down the "bonnets".
Just another clue which may help identify Jupp.
Does anyone have any pictures of the car raced by Jupp?
I am keen to see if the car had any "chequered tape" adornment as I have recently been given some photos of Wolfgang Seidel and his cars have what looks like chequered tape stripes down the "bonnets".
Just another clue which may help identify Jupp.
#26
ry6
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Posted 28 January 2002 - 18:36
I was given yesterday a few old motoring magazines. One of them was Classic & Sportscar May 2001 which has a story on Wolfgang von Trips by Chris Nixon.
It appears that in 1954 he entered a support race to the German GP under the "name" of Axel Linther so that his parents would not know he was racing. His Porsche 1300 was second.
He was to win a little later at Avus in the up to 1600 cc class, once again using the same "nick name". (I can't spell psuedonym?)
Sadly the article is not "in depth" and does not mention Scuderia Colonia or Wolfgang Seidel links.
It is clear that Trips was no stranger top non de plumes - so
it Seidel, Trips or someone else who was Jupp?
It appears that in 1954 he entered a support race to the German GP under the "name" of Axel Linther so that his parents would not know he was racing. His Porsche 1300 was second.
He was to win a little later at Avus in the up to 1600 cc class, once again using the same "nick name". (I can't spell psuedonym?)
Sadly the article is not "in depth" and does not mention Scuderia Colonia or Wolfgang Seidel links.
It is clear that Trips was no stranger top non de plumes - so
it Seidel, Trips or someone else who was Jupp?
#27
Michael Müller
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Posted 28 January 2002 - 19:33
The "Alex Linther" pseudonym is well known, he used it in his early years to hide his racing activities from his parents, at a time he was still studying agriculture. Less known is the fact that he used this Porsche as daily transport, but with 1200 cc VW engine he bought from a scrapyard. The precious Porsche engine between the races was stored in his student's room next to his bed.
#28
Udo K.
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Posted 16 January 2003 - 16:17
Never thought to find the solution...
In the official results of the 1961 1000 KM race at the Nürburgring, found at the ADAC archive at Munich a Lotus Elite entered by the Scuderia Colonia was a NRF (No.97). The two drivers:
Helmut Busch and JOSEF SCHMITZ !
(In "Time and Two Seats" Janos Wimpffen has him as "Jörg", but on the old original press releases of the ADAC from 1961 it says "Josef".)
As "Jupp" is Cologne-slang for Josef, I think, we found our man.
The Eifel-Rennen must have been his only Formula Junior appearance, quite a successful outing.
In the official results of the 1961 1000 KM race at the Nürburgring, found at the ADAC archive at Munich a Lotus Elite entered by the Scuderia Colonia was a NRF (No.97). The two drivers:
Helmut Busch and JOSEF SCHMITZ !
(In "Time and Two Seats" Janos Wimpffen has him as "Jörg", but on the old original press releases of the ADAC from 1961 it says "Josef".)
As "Jupp" is Cologne-slang for Josef, I think, we found our man.
The Eifel-Rennen must have been his only Formula Junior appearance, quite a successful outing.
#29
Udo K.
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Posted 16 January 2003 - 16:35
.. and digging deeper into the ADAC material I found the entry list, used by Richard von Frankenberg when commentating the race. And there are handwritten notes in it.
He put the "Josef Schmitz" in quotation marks and wrote under it: Hans-August Stausberg 1.9.37 (which is a birth date, of course).
So Stausberg, who appeared regularly in German sportscar races of the 50ies and early 60ies actually is or was "Jupp Schmitz".
He put the "Josef Schmitz" in quotation marks and wrote under it: Hans-August Stausberg 1.9.37 (which is a birth date, of course).
So Stausberg, who appeared regularly in German sportscar races of the 50ies and early 60ies actually is or was "Jupp Schmitz".
#30
Marcor
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Posted 17 January 2003 - 02:49
The enigma is conclusively solved 
More about Mr Hans-August Stausberg ? (data results ...)
More about Mr Hans-August Stausberg ? (data results ...)
#32
Udo K.
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Posted 18 January 2003 - 21:21
... I hope so, David.
Pseudonyms of Italian drivers are quite tricky to find out as well. Look at the thread about
racing pseudonyms..
See you soon.
Pseudonyms of Italian drivers are quite tricky to find out as well. Look at the thread about
racing pseudonyms..
See you soon.
#33
Holger Merten
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Posted 18 January 2003 - 22:50
Following this thread, I'm also really impressed.
A great job is done, thanks a lot.
A great job is done, thanks a lot.
