Actually Richie, I believe he was living in Broad Beach Road, Malibu at the time of his death which would explain the reason for him passing away in the LA area.
The first instance of San Francisco appearing in print as a place of death appears to be in Alan Henry's Driver By Driver book. I suppose the link with AIDS and the gay community lead to the San Francisco connection via a few assumptions on the way.
Mike Beuttler
Started by
tonicco
, Jul 27 2002 16:56
260 replies to this topic
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#102
SEdward
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Posted 23 December 2004 - 18:52
Can't we just discuss his ability as a driver, irrespective of his sexual preferences?
I certainly remember him as being one of the very best drivers on the British F3 scene in 1970 (see the wonderful photo in the "1-litre F3" thread from the 1970 British GP F3 race which, I believe, he won).
Edward
I certainly remember him as being one of the very best drivers on the British F3 scene in 1970 (see the wonderful photo in the "1-litre F3" thread from the 1970 British GP F3 race which, I believe, he won).
Edward
#103
Barry Boor
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Posted 23 December 2004 - 19:11
Being old enough to have been around when Mike was racing, I must say that the pronunciation of the name, to me and anyone else involved with racing at that time, was always Boyt-ler.
I should have asked him during our chat on the dockside in Dover, I suppose.
I should have asked him during our chat on the dockside in Dover, I suppose.
#104
Stefan Ornerdal
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Posted 23 December 2004 - 19:27
Mike "Boytler" drove FJuniors as early as 1960, then he seems to have disappeared from the racing scene for some years.
Anyone who knows what he did the years, in between, before he reappeared as a top F3-star around 1969-70?
Stefan
Anyone who knows what he did the years, in between, before he reappeared as a top F3-star around 1969-70?
Stefan
#105
David McKinney
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Posted 23 December 2004 - 19:49
His first races were as a teenaged employee of the Chequered Flag sportscar sales (and racing team) outift. Maybe he didn't race again until he had enough of his own money to do so 
#106
MCS
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Posted 23 December 2004 - 20:06
Originally posted by Twin Window
Over the course of the last thirty-five years or so I have never, ever heard his name pronunced any way other than Boyt-ler.
Twinny, it was certainly pronounced by TV commentators as "boyt-ler" and I've heard it that way from most other people.
But is it "Boytler" and NOT "Bewtler"?
Whatever, we're getting some information now it would seem.
Thanks everybody
Mark
#107
Ray Bell
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Posted 23 December 2004 - 20:11
Originally posted by Barry Boor
.....I should have asked him during our chat on the dockside in Dover, I suppose.
Oh?
How did you respond when he said, "Hello sailor!"?
#108
bill moffat
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Posted 23 December 2004 - 20:14
Originally posted by David McKinney
His first races were as a teenaged employee of the Chequered Flag sportscar sales (and racing team) outift. Maybe he didn't race again until he had enough of his own money to do so
This is the interesting bit for me. So there he was in 1960/61 mixing it with fellow Gemini drivers Geoff Duke, Tony Maggs, Graham Warner and Mike Parkes, then the disappearing act for the best part of a decade. On the assumption that he was younger and sharper in the early 60's was his F1 career an example of too little, too late ?
Wasn't Mike also responsible for the UK appearances of that natural race car the Citroen SM ? if so, why and how ?
The first racing Beutler (with a single T) won the 1912 Monte Carlo rally in a Berliet.
#109
MCS
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Posted 23 December 2004 - 20:31
Originally posted by bill moffat
This is the interesting bit for me. So there he was in 1960/61 mixing it with fellow Gemini drivers Geoff Duke, Tony Maggs, Graham Warner and Mike Parkes, then the disappearing act for the best part of a decade. On the assumption that he was younger and sharper in the early 60's was his F1 career an example of too little, too late ?
Wasn't Mike also responsible for the UK appearances of that natural race car the Citroen SM ? if so, why and how ?
Exactly - what happened in the intervening years?
I think it was Mike Beckwith with the Prod Saloon Citroen.
Mark
#110
DOHC
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Posted 23 December 2004 - 20:47
Originally posted by MCS
But is it "Boytler" and NOT "Bewtler"?
When at a 1973 race I tried "Boytler" I got corrected and learned that it was supposed to be "Bewtler". I changed then and there, as I thought it was embarrassing not to be correct. It's surprising that nobody to this very day really seems to know for sure.
#111
Twin Window
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Posted 23 December 2004 - 21:10
Was whoever corrected you a bloke by the name of Mark Cole? I only wonder because he's the only man on the entire planet to refer to Thierry Boutsen as Thierry 'Bow (as in bend forward) tsen'... 
#112
Ralliart
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Posted 23 December 2004 - 21:26
Born 13 April 1960 in Cairo, he was, wrote Barrie Gill, "connected with motor racing since 1960 (but) did not start his career proper until 1968...on leaving public school (he) joined the Chequered Flag racing team to help with administration and was even given a chance to race but damaged the car. After this, Mike switched to working for a theatrical agency but was soon back in motor racing as Assistant Secretary to the B.R.S.C.C. In 1966, he rejoined the Chequered Flag but it wasn't until 1968 that he persuaded (Clarke and Mordaunt) to sponsor him in F3."...Third stockbroker recruited in '71 and also Durlacher "Rob Walker's former co-sponsor."
#113
ensign14
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Posted 23 December 2004 - 21:37
According to Peter Scherer's book Mike had some races in FJ in 1960, came back with a Brabham F3 in 1965 and then raced more regularly in a BT21 in 1967. From then on fairly regular career up to F1 and after then 1973 season he had the one-off 1000km drive before retiring.
#114
Mischa Bijenhof
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Posted 23 December 2004 - 21:58
Originally posted by Twin Window
Was whoever corrected you a bloke by the name of Mark Cole? I only wonder because he's the only man on the entire planet to refer to Thierry Boutsen as Thierry 'Bow (as in bend forward) tsen'...
Not the only one Twinny: most Dutchies prounounce it like that, but since I wasn't working in F1 at the time he drove, I have never actually asked him.
#115
Barry Boor
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Posted 23 December 2004 - 22:28
Barry? Dare I ask?!
Oh dear!
You know, I have absolutely no recollection of that conversation whatsoever. I mean, I remember the chat, but the content..... 
What I will say, in answer to the 'Hello, sailor' quip (you wag, Ray!) remember that I was 'only' 23 at the time and can honestly say that although I suppose that by then I must have met various people who would now be bracketed by the term 'gay', I wouldn't have known what they looked like, sounded like or behaved like - and I certainly would NEVER have associated that particular characteristic with a Formula One racing driver.
(No more than I would now......
)
#116
Ray Bell
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Posted 23 December 2004 - 23:44
I know exactly what you mean Barry...
It's very hard to put the sight of Bill Patterson skating around a tree-lined Bathurst at 2:28.5 in his older style Cooper with the 2.5 engine while racing against later model cars with 2.7 engines... not to mention him being fastest of all down the bumpy Conrod Straight with its gutters, trees and barbed wire fences either side of him at a whisker under 170mph just before the car gets all tippy-toe and light over the final hump... very hard to to put that vision into the picture of a man with a boyfriend... how Gerald Patterson must have rolled in his grave.
It's very hard to put the sight of Bill Patterson skating around a tree-lined Bathurst at 2:28.5 in his older style Cooper with the 2.5 engine while racing against later model cars with 2.7 engines... not to mention him being fastest of all down the bumpy Conrod Straight with its gutters, trees and barbed wire fences either side of him at a whisker under 170mph just before the car gets all tippy-toe and light over the final hump... very hard to to put that vision into the picture of a man with a boyfriend... how Gerald Patterson must have rolled in his grave.
#117
Roger Clark
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Posted 24 December 2004 - 00:38
Each year in the early 1960s Michael Beuttler wrote a series of articles about the Chequered Flag stables racing the previous year. The first of these appeared in February 1959. He says that he joined the Flag as an 18 year old in February 1958. The series continued until 1962 (I think) and provide an interesting record of the team's exploits. THe 1962 article was in two parts, each of five pages. I can't imagine Autosport devoting similar space to a private team thse days.
I think that Beuttler was only an occassional driver, although he did drive one of the cars in testing in the first year. This picture comes from the 1959 article. Beuttler is second from the left.
I think that Beuttler was only an occassional driver, although he did drive one of the cars in testing in the first year. This picture comes from the 1959 article. Beuttler is second from the left.
#118
DOHC
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Posted 24 December 2004 - 08:17
Originally posted by Twin Window
Was whoever corrected you a bloke by the name of Mark Cole? I only wonder because he's the only man on the entire planet to refer to Thierry Boutsen as Thierry 'Bow (as in bend forward) tsen'...
Can't remember who told me.
As for Boutsen, I always said "Bowtsen" as this is the pronunciation I learned when I worked in Holland. There are of course some regional differences in Dutch and Flemish pronunciation, but I'd be surprised if the pronunciation "Boot-san" would be correct anywhere except in ... Japan.
#119
ReWind
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Posted 24 December 2004 - 08:39
It definitely is "Boot-sen", not "Bowt-sen". I remember when Arrows presented their new car for Marc Surer and Thierry Boutsen in German TV show "Das aktuelle Sport-Studio" (ZDF, late 1985 or early 1986) and the moderator addressed the Belgian as "Bowt-sen". He was on the spot corrected for the right pronunciation (I think by a representative of BMW - presumably Dieter Stappert, but I'm not sure about that).
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#120
Darren Galpin
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Posted 24 December 2004 - 08:40
Originally posted by DOHC
Can't remember who told me.
As for Boutsen, I always said "Bowtsen" as this is the pronunciation I learned when I worked in Holland. There are of course some regional differences in Dutch and Flemish pronunciation, but I'd be surprised if the pronunciation "Boot-san" would be correct anywhere except in ... Japan.
But his name is French, and he was born in Brussels, so one assumes he pronounces his name the French way? Hence "Boot-sen"?
#121
Rob Ryder
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Posted 24 December 2004 - 09:24
To bring this thread back to Mike.. here are a couple I took of him.
After practice 1972 British GP, Brands Hatch (poor quality
)
1973 British GP at Silverstone in the CMGD March 731
After practice 1972 British GP, Brands Hatch (poor quality
) 1973 British GP at Silverstone in the CMGD March 731
#122
DOHC
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Posted 24 December 2004 - 10:12
Originally posted by Darren Galpin
But his name is French
Thierry is undoubtedly French, but Boutsen is Flemish. Oh well, from the language point of view that area is rather messy. Few people speak proper lingua franca.
#123
Paul_H
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Posted 24 December 2004 - 13:10
Nice pictures Rob ! The quality is not so bad ;)
The quality is not so bad ;)
#124
AAA-Eagle
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Posted 24 December 2004 - 14:02
Originally posted by Nanni Dietrich
I've seen Mike Beuttler winning at Vallelunga F.2 in Oct. 1971. Two races in a week at the end of the season at the circuit near Rome: first Mad Ronald won (and won the title), for the second race he didn't want to partecipate.
I remember Beuttler's helmet was blue, and at the wheel of a yellow March 712M similar to the yellow car of Ronnie Peterson, he seemed to be Peterson! (if I remember well in the second race he assembled on his March the same noise and wings of Peterson's car, with famous Peterson's sponsor SMOG too!)
In addition, Beuttler was so fast in that two races (4th in the first, winner in second race!) that someone thought he was really Ronnie...
From our 8W Nostalgia game :
#125
Gert
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Posted 24 December 2004 - 14:36
Originally posted by DOHC
Thierry is undoubtedly French, but Boutsen is Flemish. Oh well, from the language point of view that area is rather messy. Few people speak proper lingua franca.
In the Dutch-speaking part of Belgium, he was always "Bow-tsen", in the French-speaking part, it was always "Boot-sen"...
--
He once appeared in a TV show on Flemish TV, and there he introduced himself: "Hallo, ik ben Thierry Boutsen" - "Hi, i'm Thierry Bow-tsen" ...
Of course, when on a Frebch TV show, he may have introduced himself as "Boo-tsen" too...
#126
Stephen W
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Posted 24 December 2004 - 14:56
My memories are of a hard-charging no-nonsense driver.
I wasn't aware at the time of his sexual orientation but there again it didn't matter.
His 'nickname' round the paddock was 'Boots' or 'Bootsie'. He was always happy to chat about motor sport especially if you showed you knew what you were talking about.
I wasn't a fan as I thought his tactics at times were questionable and well remember him shoving Gerry Birrell off at the Thruxton chicane in an F2 race.
He never really delivered on track but I assume his backers were happy about pumping money into 'his team'.
I wasn't aware at the time of his sexual orientation but there again it didn't matter.
His 'nickname' round the paddock was 'Boots' or 'Bootsie'. He was always happy to chat about motor sport especially if you showed you knew what you were talking about.
I wasn't a fan as I thought his tactics at times were questionable and well remember him shoving Gerry Birrell off at the Thruxton chicane in an F2 race.
He never really delivered on track but I assume his backers were happy about pumping money into 'his team'.
#127
Richard Jenkins
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Posted 24 December 2004 - 18:58
Originally posted by David Holland
Actually Richie, I believe he was living in Broad Beach Road, Malibu at the time of his death which would explain the reason for him passing away in the LA area.
The first instance of San Francisco appearing in print as a place of death appears to be in Alan Henry's Driver By Driver book. I suppose the link with AIDS and the gay community lead to the San Francisco connection via a few assumptions on the way.
Sorry, David, that's right. I remember you telling me the normally spot-on Alan Henry making that blooper. (I blame the brandy in the Christmas pudding I bought over here - I haven't been the same since.)
#128
Jimmy Piget
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Posted 25 December 2004 - 10:59
Didn't Beuttler test-drove a BRM circa 1975 ?
#129
Ray Bell
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Posted 25 December 2004 - 11:45
Originally posted by Jimmy Piget
Didn't Beuttler test-drove a BRM circa 1975 ?
I don't know if he did... but...
A number of people would have done, and it sounds pretty appropriate.
#130
ensign14
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Posted 25 December 2004 - 12:11
I don't think Raymond Mays was choosing the dri...oh, wait, you mean because he was British? I see.Originally posted by Ray Bell
A number of people would have done, and it sounds pretty appropriate.
#131
Rob29
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Posted 25 December 2004 - 12:19
Don't follow this at all.By then Mr.Stanley was runing BRM and used all french drivers in 1974.Originally posted by ensign14
I don't think Raymond Mays was choosing the dri...oh, wait, you mean because he was British? I see.
#132
Twin Window
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Posted 25 December 2004 - 12:21
I think Ensign's referring to to R Mays' reputation as a prolific shirt-lifter.
#133
Ray Bell
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Posted 25 December 2004 - 12:22
Because he understood the import of my post...
#134
Twin Window
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Posted 25 December 2004 - 12:25
He was Egyptian, born in Cairo.Originally posted by ensign14
... because he was British?
#135
David McKinney
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Posted 25 December 2004 - 15:35
In spite of the previous posting, he was British (though born in Cairo)
#136
David Lawson
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Posted 25 December 2004 - 22:06
My only photograph of Mike Beuttler from the 1973 British GP. Apologies for a low quality scan of a grainy negative
David
David
#137
MCS
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Posted 26 December 2004 - 19:44
Originally posted by Jimmy Piget
Didn't Beuttler test-drove a BRM circa 1975 ?
Really
Never heard this before...
Anybody?
Mark
#138
conjohn
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Posted 02 January 2005 - 12:06
This is what I have of Beuttler from Sweden 1973.
#139
phinorman
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Posted 02 January 2005 - 18:26
Hello all readers !
I'm the french man who has a serious project to write a book about Mike Beuttler life ; yes, I had written a little text in AUTOMOBILE HISTORIQUE about this with a Monaco 72 photo car of Mike and a "petite annonce" to search informations and photos.
I try to have the much more photos (amateurs inclued) an articles about Mike Beuttler, his team and all others informations.
Your exchanges in this forum are and will be very precious for me.
I send you this web adress to look after the serious target of my project (french text on web but I think to write in french and english for the book).
http://monsite.wanad...-mike-beuttler/
Yours sincerely !
I'm the french man who has a serious project to write a book about Mike Beuttler life ; yes, I had written a little text in AUTOMOBILE HISTORIQUE about this with a Monaco 72 photo car of Mike and a "petite annonce" to search informations and photos.
I try to have the much more photos (amateurs inclued) an articles about Mike Beuttler, his team and all others informations.
Your exchanges in this forum are and will be very precious for me.
I send you this web adress to look after the serious target of my project (french text on web but I think to write in french and english for the book).
http://monsite.wanad...-mike-beuttler/
Yours sincerely !
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#140
Rob Ryder
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Posted 02 January 2005 - 19:08
Great news Philippe, and good luck with the book. Your website is very interesting, but it is a shame that the photos are not bigger.
You can use the two photos I posted to this thread, either on your website or in a book.
If you would like larger copies (1200 pixel) just drop me an email.
Rob
You can use the two photos I posted to this thread, either on your website or in a book.
If you would like larger copies (1200 pixel) just drop me an email.
Rob
#141
phinorman
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Posted 02 January 2005 - 19:32
Hello all readers !
Sorry, I miss this :
HAPPY 2005 to you !
Sorry, I miss this :
HAPPY 2005 to you !
#142
MCS
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Posted 02 January 2005 - 20:36
Best of luck with your book Philippe !!!
My question regarding whether or not Mike tested a BRM still remains unanswered - do you know the answer?
Bon chance!
Mark
Edited by MCS, 25 February 2021 - 13:41.
#143
phinorman
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Posted 03 January 2005 - 09:13
Hello MCS !
Many thanks for your "encouragements".
Your information about Mike Beuttler's test for B.R.M. is a new for me ; I think to have precisions if I could chat with ex-B.R.M. driver Henri Pescarolo about Mike.
A scoop ? > Mike has driven a Rawlson-Ford in 1975 Nurburgring 1000 kms during practice with Ivon Goodwin (not qualified) and in 1977 he has raced with Walter Brun in Monza 4 hours on BMW 320 (fourth position).
Yours sincerely !
Phinorman / Philippe Vogel
Many thanks for your "encouragements".
Your information about Mike Beuttler's test for B.R.M. is a new for me ; I think to have precisions if I could chat with ex-B.R.M. driver Henri Pescarolo about Mike.
A scoop ? > Mike has driven a Rawlson-Ford in 1975 Nurburgring 1000 kms during practice with Ivon Goodwin (not qualified) and in 1977 he has raced with Walter Brun in Monza 4 hours on BMW 320 (fourth position).
Yours sincerely !
Phinorman / Philippe Vogel
#144
st59cz
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Posted 03 January 2005 - 10:28
1977 he has raced with Walter Brun in Monza 4 hours on BMW 320 (fourth position
i doubt about this, i mean it was swiss driver Beutler.
#145
Alan Cox
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Posted 03 January 2005 - 12:58
Who remembers him racing a Talbot-Lago at VSCC Silverstone? I can't remember the year, or why he did it. No doubt Mr McKinney can throw some light.....
#146
David McKinney
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Posted 03 January 2005 - 13:50
I accept your challenge ;)
1971, IIRC
The car was of course owned by his brother-in-law, Hon Alan Clark
1971, IIRC
The car was of course owned by his brother-in-law, Hon Alan Clark
#147
Nanni Dietrich
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Posted 03 January 2005 - 15:54
Originally posted by AAA-Eagle
From our 8W Nostalgia game :
ooooppsss
the FAMOUS Ronnie Peterson's sponsor was Vicks and not Smog... sorry. Originally posted by st59cz
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1977 he has raced with Walter Brun in Monza 4 hours on BMW 320 (fourth position
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i doubt about this, i mean it was swiss driver Beutler.
4 Hours of Monza 1979, 5th over all Brun-Beutler (BMW 320). He wasn't Mike Beuttler but swiss driver Beutler. I think his name was Joachim, but I'm not sure.
In 1912 Julius Beutler won the Montecarlo Rally at the wheel of a Berliet.
#148
phinorman
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Posted 03 January 2005 - 17:45
Hello Nanni !
I'm ready to accept your proposition ; I'don't know this shcweiz driver.
The solution to confirm it will be that I connect Walter Brun on his website.
Yours sincerely !
Phinorman / Philippe Vogel
I'm ready to accept your proposition ; I'don't know this shcweiz driver.
The solution to confirm it will be that I connect Walter Brun on his website.
Yours sincerely !
Phinorman / Philippe Vogel
#149
j-ickx-fan
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Posted 03 January 2005 - 18:37
Philippe,
I confirm that at the 4 hours of Monza 1979, it was not Mike Beuttler but the Swiss Beutler (with 1 t). I knew his first name but my memory fails right know.
Julien
I confirm that at the 4 hours of Monza 1979, it was not Mike Beuttler but the Swiss Beutler (with 1 t). I knew his first name but my memory fails right know.
Julien
#150
conjohn
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Posted 03 January 2005 - 19:02
Don't be sorry, Nanni, as both are correct!Originally posted by Nanni Dietrich
ooooppsss
Ronnie was sponsored by SMOG, a cough drop for smokers by Richardson&Merrell, starting in 1969. (I bought them myself, even though I wasn't/isn't a smoker - good marketing...). In 1971, sometime between the French Grand Prix in early July, and the Swedish F2 round at Mantorp Park (my first race!) in early August, the name of the product was changed to VICK...
