I have been reading from this thread for quite a while now, and finally have reason to post a thread.
I have been trying to do research on the 1968 Australian Gold Star series, without specialised publications (ie. Racing Car News) and was searching through the archives at the Victorian State Library, and the Melbourne Sun of September 14, 1968 states that Allan Moffat has been entered to race the Bob Jane Racing Repco Brabham in the following days Round 3 of the Australian Drivers Championship. As there was no mention of him in the results in the Monday edition of the paper, (I think the places were filled by 1.5 litre cars) I was wondering whether he did actually race, and how he went.
Also I would be very appreciative of anyone pointing me in the right direction for getting race reports or colour photographs of the cars that participated in the 1968 Gold Star.
1968 Australian Gold Star
Started by
David Shaw
, Aug 29 2002 09:25
34 replies to this topic
#3
David Shaw
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Posted 29 August 2002 - 12:42
Thanks Mark, that is a most informative site where I have gleaned most of my information from already.
#4
Mark Beckman
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Posted 29 August 2002 - 12:55
Check back in a few days and I'll get an e mail for a Guy who has much info and pics from that era.
I cant contact him at moment.
I cant contact him at moment.
#5
David Shaw
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Posted 31 August 2002 - 08:07
Thanks Mark, that is much appreciated as there is so little information around on the Gold Star of this era.
#6
David McKinney
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Posted 02 September 2002 - 20:33
I don’t have access to my best records at the moment either.
However, the Neil Nicoll black book lists this entry as a non-starter after crashing in practice for round 4 of the Gold Star at Sandown Park on 15 September
However, the Neil Nicoll black book lists this entry as a non-starter after crashing in practice for round 4 of the Gold Star at Sandown Park on 15 September
#7
David Shaw
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Posted 02 September 2002 - 23:35
Yes you are correct on those points David, it was round 4 which was held on September 15 (Sunday), the newspaper report was from September 14 (Saturday) as I don't believe we had Sunday papers then.
#8
Ray Bell
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Posted 09 September 2002 - 12:22
This was one of Moffat's great gaffes...
In the space of about a fortnight he not only bundled up the Brabham on the back straight at Sandown, but he also put the 400 into the fence at the Causeway at the Farm.
Needless to say, his expected tenure in the leading seat in the Bob Jane Racing team was no longer as secure as it might have been... the Brabham was repaired and the next driver was Bob himself.
But let's just review the history of this car during the Gold Star of that year... practice at Bathurst saw it break a rear upright (faulty casting, IIRC) and put John Harvey on the critical list in Bathurst hospital.
Repaired, it was to be driven at Warwick Farm by Ian Cook, but was scratched as he was apparently considered too inexperienced at that time. Or was it too highly committed? Cook drove tthe Elfin 400 that weekend, with the main race being the Sports Car event. He did drive it at Lakeside however, and it was embarrassing to see it go so slowly.
Just a week later Bob sat in the car (his first ever outing in a big openwheeler, remember) and diced with Leo Geoghegan (Lotus 39) and Frank Matich (SR3) to fill third place in a race at Calder.
It seems Bob didn't think any of his drivers were good enough for the Surfers Gold Star event and didn't run the car there, but Moffat was fifth fastest at Sandown before his crash in practice. Mallala came (Round 5) and went without a Jane entry... as did Warwick Farm's Hordern Trophy...
January 16 saw another mixed race at Calder and Bob jumped into the car again to chase Matich, setting a new 2.5 record as he went. The best thing the car had done all year...
Harvey had started growing new skin by this time... was soon to return.
I have RCNs if you need more info.
In the space of about a fortnight he not only bundled up the Brabham on the back straight at Sandown, but he also put the 400 into the fence at the Causeway at the Farm.
Needless to say, his expected tenure in the leading seat in the Bob Jane Racing team was no longer as secure as it might have been... the Brabham was repaired and the next driver was Bob himself.
But let's just review the history of this car during the Gold Star of that year... practice at Bathurst saw it break a rear upright (faulty casting, IIRC) and put John Harvey on the critical list in Bathurst hospital.
Repaired, it was to be driven at Warwick Farm by Ian Cook, but was scratched as he was apparently considered too inexperienced at that time. Or was it too highly committed? Cook drove tthe Elfin 400 that weekend, with the main race being the Sports Car event. He did drive it at Lakeside however, and it was embarrassing to see it go so slowly.
Just a week later Bob sat in the car (his first ever outing in a big openwheeler, remember) and diced with Leo Geoghegan (Lotus 39) and Frank Matich (SR3) to fill third place in a race at Calder.
It seems Bob didn't think any of his drivers were good enough for the Surfers Gold Star event and didn't run the car there, but Moffat was fifth fastest at Sandown before his crash in practice. Mallala came (Round 5) and went without a Jane entry... as did Warwick Farm's Hordern Trophy...
January 16 saw another mixed race at Calder and Bob jumped into the car again to chase Matich, setting a new 2.5 record as he went. The best thing the car had done all year...
Harvey had started growing new skin by this time... was soon to return.
I have RCNs if you need more info.
#9
Allen Brown
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Posted 11 September 2002 - 14:02
Ray
Which Brabham are we talking about here? The old BT11A that Harvey had driven in the '68 Tasman or the newer BT23-type car that he ran at Sandown '69?
Allen
Which Brabham are we talking about here? The old BT11A that Harvey had driven in the '68 Tasman or the newer BT23-type car that he ran at Sandown '69?
Allen
#10
Ray Bell
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Posted 11 September 2002 - 21:27
Hmmm... I'm not real sure about this...
Someone* is more likely to know, but I don't think Harvey drove a BT11 at all. If my memory is right (which is always suspect in this type of thing...) he was in a BT14 when he drove for Ron Phillips, and I had always believed that the car went with him to Bob Jane's.
But I have been told that wasn't right, and I think it was Bob Britton who told me that too, and he had modified the car for Phillips to put the Repco V8 into it.
Harvey is a regular at Historic races these days, he has another little Brabham that he drives all the time and if I get a chance to talk to him I'll ask. But that could take a long time...
My feeling is that it was a 23 of some kind. Would the photo of the crashed car on the tow truck in The Rise and Fall of Peter Brock be of any use?
This book does say, however, that in 1970 Harvey was driving this same car... "With wild new bodywork, with a big rear wing and with side fuel tanks."
I doubt that the car survived that long, myself... but I do think it was the same car in '68 and '69.
Someone* is more likely to know, but I don't think Harvey drove a BT11 at all. If my memory is right (which is always suspect in this type of thing...) he was in a BT14 when he drove for Ron Phillips, and I had always believed that the car went with him to Bob Jane's.
But I have been told that wasn't right, and I think it was Bob Britton who told me that too, and he had modified the car for Phillips to put the Repco V8 into it.
Harvey is a regular at Historic races these days, he has another little Brabham that he drives all the time and if I get a chance to talk to him I'll ask. But that could take a long time...
My feeling is that it was a 23 of some kind. Would the photo of the crashed car on the tow truck in The Rise and Fall of Peter Brock be of any use?
This book does say, however, that in 1970 Harvey was driving this same car... "With wild new bodywork, with a big rear wing and with side fuel tanks."
I doubt that the car survived that long, myself... but I do think it was the same car in '68 and '69.
#11
Catalina Park
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Posted 12 September 2002 - 09:58
Ray, the book says that Bob bought the Repco-Brabham V8 that Jack bought out for the Tasman series....Originally posted by Ray Bell
Hmmm... I'm not real sure about this...
Barry Lake is more likely to know, but I don't think Harvey drove a BT11 at all. If my memory is right (which is always suspect in this type of thing...) he was in a BT14 when he drove for Ron Phillips, and I had always believed that the car went with him to Bob Jane's.
But I have been told that wasn't right, and I think it was Bob Britton who told me that too, and he had modified the car for Phillips to put the Repco V8 into it.
Harvey is a regular at Historic races these days, he has another little Brabham that he drives all the time and if I get a chance to talk to him I'll ask. But that could take a long time...
My feeling is that it was a 23 of some kind. Would the photo of the crashed car on the tow truck in The Rise and Fall of Peter Brock be of any use?
This book does say, however, that in 1970 Harvey was driving this same car... "With wild new bodywork, with a big rear wing and with side fuel tanks."
I doubt that the car survived that long, myself... but I do think it was the same car in '68 and '69.
Here is the pic of the car on the tow truck
I don't know about the Brabham but the Tow Truck is an Austin!
#12
Ray Bell
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Posted 12 September 2002 - 13:08
That would surely be a BT23-something then...
So where did the car he ran in the Tasman series come from then?
So where did the car he ran in the Tasman series come from then?
#13
David McKinney
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Posted 12 September 2002 - 18:30
The Jane/Harvey Tasman Series entry in 1968 would have been the BT11 which Spencer Martin had driven the previous season (and Harvey in the Hordern Trophy). The team then bought Brabham's BT23E and ran that for the rest of the season with the older car as a spare. Ian Cook raced one of these at Lakeside in July, before the Moffatt accident
#14
Ray Bell
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Posted 12 September 2002 - 19:56
Originally posted by David McKinney
The Jane/Harvey Tasman Series entry in 1968 would have been the BT11 which Spencer Martin had driven the previous season (and Harvey in the Hordern Trophy).
On this point I disagree... both memory and photos show this to be a smaller car. Was it the BT14 from Phillips? I don't think so, but maybe it was used as a stopgap? It had the Repco V8... no BT11 was ever so fitted, IIRC.
The team then bought Brabham's BT23E and ran that for the rest of the season with the older car as a spare. Ian Cook raced one of these at Lakeside in July, before the Moffat accident
On this I agree... as clearly outlined in the chronology of my first post.
#15
Allen Brown
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Posted 12 September 2002 - 21:09
Ray, DavidOriginally posted by Ray Bell
On this point I disagree... both memory and photos show this to be a smaller car. Was it the BT14 from Phillips? I don't think so, but maybe it was used as a stopgap? It had the Repco V8... no BT11 was ever so fitted, IIRC.
I have the 1968 Harvey car in my records as BT11A IC-4-64 but I have it as a Climax car during the 1968 Tasman. I'm fairly confident about the BT11A bit but am I wrong about the Climax?
Allen
#16
Ray Bell
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Posted 12 September 2002 - 21:20
Closely comparing photos... and really, all this does is allow you to compare the body shape... I think it may even be the BT11.
But then in one pic it looks too small. The BT23-type cars looked smaller than the BT11, and the pic of Harvey tacked onto the back of another bunch of cars in Creek Corner certainly gives that impression.
Otherwise, the nose opening of the car used in the Tasman has more height, like the BT11. That's compared with both the BT14 (I'm still not sure of that designation... this car was originally Stillwell's 1.5-litre car of 1965) and the car Jane set the lap record in at Calder in 68.
One thing's for sure, it had the Repco V8 in the back. No Climax at all, which may well account for their non-appearance at Surfers Paradise for the first Australian round of the Tasman... the conversion may not have been complete.
But then in one pic it looks too small. The BT23-type cars looked smaller than the BT11, and the pic of Harvey tacked onto the back of another bunch of cars in Creek Corner certainly gives that impression.
Otherwise, the nose opening of the car used in the Tasman has more height, like the BT11. That's compared with both the BT14 (I'm still not sure of that designation... this car was originally Stillwell's 1.5-litre car of 1965) and the car Jane set the lap record in at Calder in 68.
One thing's for sure, it had the Repco V8 in the back. No Climax at all, which may well account for their non-appearance at Surfers Paradise for the first Australian round of the Tasman... the conversion may not have been complete.
#17
David McKinney
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Posted 12 September 2002 - 21:30
You're driving me into a corner here, guys. I did say I didn't have access to my full records - might get a chance to dig further on the weekend. My recollection was as I stated above, that the Jane Team car for the 1968 Tasman was their 1967 BT11A (sorry, forgot the 'A' in my earlier post), though whether it had Climax or Repco power I will need to re-research. But the team had by that time also taken over the R C Phillips BT14 that Harvey had raced (with Repco engine) in 1967. So maybe it was that car, as Ray suggests.
And apologies Ray on the Ian Cook thing. I misread the accident as a reference to the Moffatt drive
And apologies Ray on the Ian Cook thing. I misread the accident as a reference to the Moffatt drive
#18
Ray Bell
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Posted 12 September 2002 - 21:52
That's cool, David...
I do rely a lot on memory here and the bewilderment I have over this is exacerbated by the lack of information in RCN. The car has the little aluminium deflectors at the front of the front suspension opening in the body, which neither the BT11A or the BT14 had, the nose certainly looks more BT11, but it has some '67 Ferrari-style elongated vents cut into the top of the sides of the nose above the suspension for radiator air extraction.
The BT14 had triangles cut in its body right in the centre... so that difference is there too.
There's no need to research the Repco engine question, pics are very plain on that... inlet trumpets in abundance sticking out high above the bodywork behind the roll bar.
Now I'll push the quest a step further... Brabham didn't run at Longford, the week after Sandown. So did Jane take delivery of his new car in time for that meeting? The pic of the grid in RCN is indistinct, especially because Harvey is at the rear. The report barely mentions his presence.
Where did that BT11A finish up, by the way? I know the BT14 was much more recently restored to its original 4-cylinder form, with the rear chassis section that was cut off it retrieved from Britto and either duplicated or simply welded back on... It was from this chassis - during the time it was with him to convert it to fit the V8 - that Britto made his jig for the Rennmax BN3 IIRC. And, from memory again, he reckons it was a mistake, that it wasn't a good chassis. Or was it that he should have used this one instead of the one he did?
I do rely a lot on memory here and the bewilderment I have over this is exacerbated by the lack of information in RCN. The car has the little aluminium deflectors at the front of the front suspension opening in the body, which neither the BT11A or the BT14 had, the nose certainly looks more BT11, but it has some '67 Ferrari-style elongated vents cut into the top of the sides of the nose above the suspension for radiator air extraction.
The BT14 had triangles cut in its body right in the centre... so that difference is there too.
There's no need to research the Repco engine question, pics are very plain on that... inlet trumpets in abundance sticking out high above the bodywork behind the roll bar.
Now I'll push the quest a step further... Brabham didn't run at Longford, the week after Sandown. So did Jane take delivery of his new car in time for that meeting? The pic of the grid in RCN is indistinct, especially because Harvey is at the rear. The report barely mentions his presence.
Where did that BT11A finish up, by the way? I know the BT14 was much more recently restored to its original 4-cylinder form, with the rear chassis section that was cut off it retrieved from Britto and either duplicated or simply welded back on... It was from this chassis - during the time it was with him to convert it to fit the V8 - that Britto made his jig for the Rennmax BN3 IIRC. And, from memory again, he reckons it was a mistake, that it wasn't a good chassis. Or was it that he should have used this one instead of the one he did?
#19
Allen Brown
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Posted 13 September 2002 - 07:43
I really should have looked up my own notes on this car before asking dumb questions. I seem to have quite overlooked this history I wrote of the car many years ago (last touched by human hand in 1994!
Brabham BT11A IC-4-64
Dave McKay had retired from racing after the 1964 season but his Scuderia Veloce continued and entered Graham Hill for the 1965 Tasman series in a new BT11A. Spencer Martin then took over the drive and raced the car in the 1966 and 1967 series.
The first round of the Gold Star was the Governor's Trophy in July which Martin won, from pole, ahead of Bartlett's similar car. Martin then moved, complete with car, across to the Bob Jane team but kept winning, taking the next two rounds. He had a rough time in the Internationals, managing only a fourth place at Longford, but was back on form when the Gold Star season began, taking second places at Lakeside and Calder, a win at Surfers Paradise, another second at Sandown Park and then a final win at Mallala.
After the Symons Plain race, Martin retired and Jane drafted in John Harvey to replace him. He was second in his first race in the car, at Warwick Farm in December 1967. Before the next race, the Tasman round at Warwick Farm in February, Jane had the car equipped with a Repco V8. Harvey retired from his first two races but managed a lowly eighth in the final Tasman race at Longford.
Jane then acquired the Repco-powered Brabham BT23E but in its first race with the team, the opening Gold Star round at Bathurst on Easter Monday, Harvey crashed badly in practice, severely damaging the BT23E and suffering a fractured skull. While Harvey recuperated, Jane employed Jim Palmer but it is not clear from reports whether he used the repaired BT23A or the old BT11A, both being Brabham-Repco V8s. Palmer’s first drive was at the non-Gold Star HMV Racing Car Trophy race at Warwick Farm on 14 July. He put the BT23E on the second row but was quickly up to third, a position that improved to second at the finish after Neil Allen was penalised.
Two weeks later, Palmer was due to get his first Australian Gold Star race at Lakeside but this meant trading in his New Zealand racing permit for an Australian one and that meant a medical. Despite his many years of success in New Zealand, Palmer only had sight in one eye and that was not good enough for the CAMS medical officer. The four-time New Zealand Gold Star champion was not considered fit to drive. Ian Cook took his place for the Lakeside race but Jane then withdrew until Harvey was fit. That was expected at Sandown Park in September and the BT23E was taken along but in the end was only used in practice by Alan Moffat. David McKinney believes the BT11A was used in a few minor races in 1968 but it does not appear to have been used in any of that season’s six Gold Star races.
The old BT11A was then retired but Bob Jane retained it in his ever-increasing collection of cars and has been reported as still owning it in 1972, 1983, 1985 and 1994.
Sources:
Autosport (1968)
Speedworld International (3 Aug 1968 p 14, 10 Aug 1968 pp 6, 14)
Denis Lupton (January 1983)
Historic Racing Cars of New Zealand (Vercoe, 1991)
David McKinney (letter - c 1992)
Tasman Fact Book (Sheldon - 1994)
Bryan Miller (October 1994)
How many mistakes can you spot? :
Allen
Brabham BT11A IC-4-64
Dave McKay had retired from racing after the 1964 season but his Scuderia Veloce continued and entered Graham Hill for the 1965 Tasman series in a new BT11A. Spencer Martin then took over the drive and raced the car in the 1966 and 1967 series.
The first round of the Gold Star was the Governor's Trophy in July which Martin won, from pole, ahead of Bartlett's similar car. Martin then moved, complete with car, across to the Bob Jane team but kept winning, taking the next two rounds. He had a rough time in the Internationals, managing only a fourth place at Longford, but was back on form when the Gold Star season began, taking second places at Lakeside and Calder, a win at Surfers Paradise, another second at Sandown Park and then a final win at Mallala.
After the Symons Plain race, Martin retired and Jane drafted in John Harvey to replace him. He was second in his first race in the car, at Warwick Farm in December 1967. Before the next race, the Tasman round at Warwick Farm in February, Jane had the car equipped with a Repco V8. Harvey retired from his first two races but managed a lowly eighth in the final Tasman race at Longford.
Jane then acquired the Repco-powered Brabham BT23E but in its first race with the team, the opening Gold Star round at Bathurst on Easter Monday, Harvey crashed badly in practice, severely damaging the BT23E and suffering a fractured skull. While Harvey recuperated, Jane employed Jim Palmer but it is not clear from reports whether he used the repaired BT23A or the old BT11A, both being Brabham-Repco V8s. Palmer’s first drive was at the non-Gold Star HMV Racing Car Trophy race at Warwick Farm on 14 July. He put the BT23E on the second row but was quickly up to third, a position that improved to second at the finish after Neil Allen was penalised.
Two weeks later, Palmer was due to get his first Australian Gold Star race at Lakeside but this meant trading in his New Zealand racing permit for an Australian one and that meant a medical. Despite his many years of success in New Zealand, Palmer only had sight in one eye and that was not good enough for the CAMS medical officer. The four-time New Zealand Gold Star champion was not considered fit to drive. Ian Cook took his place for the Lakeside race but Jane then withdrew until Harvey was fit. That was expected at Sandown Park in September and the BT23E was taken along but in the end was only used in practice by Alan Moffat. David McKinney believes the BT11A was used in a few minor races in 1968 but it does not appear to have been used in any of that season’s six Gold Star races.
The old BT11A was then retired but Bob Jane retained it in his ever-increasing collection of cars and has been reported as still owning it in 1972, 1983, 1985 and 1994.
Sources:
Autosport (1968)
Speedworld International (3 Aug 1968 p 14, 10 Aug 1968 pp 6, 14)
Denis Lupton (January 1983)
Historic Racing Cars of New Zealand (Vercoe, 1991)
David McKinney (letter - c 1992)
Tasman Fact Book (Sheldon - 1994)
Bryan Miller (October 1994)
How many mistakes can you spot? :
Allen
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#20
Ray Bell
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Posted 13 September 2002 - 08:25
I knew that Palmer drove the car!
As it wasn't a main race I didn't readily find it. Seeing the Cook reference at the May meeting I assumed I was getting confused with the time that Palmer drove the Scuderia Veloce Brabham at the Farm after Martin and McKay had had their bustup.
He was running fourth in that race, by the way, before finishing third and getting lucky for second. He had to pass Glynn Scott in the Bowin. I would bet more money than you and I have combined that the BT11A never raced again after the Tasman Cup was over.
As for spotting mistakes... well, it's Niel Allen... that's important. Allan Moffat might also prefer correct spelling... and it's Symmons Plains too. I think it's worth mentioning that Harvey and the Repco V8 came as a package, Phillips was getting a bit shaky about how much this Gold Star lark was costing and it was a neat way out for him and fitted in with both Jane and Shell, who backed both teams. Also important is that Martin's Gold Star win was the first that Shell took off BP. I think Mobil had won one back in the fifties.
As mentioned above, Cook was down to drive the car at that May meeting. Bevan Gibson was spannering with the team at that time, by the way.
The issue of the monocular vision was cut and dried. It simply wasn't allowed for a racing licence in Australia... no matter what happened anywhere else. This is why McKay didn't continue with Palmer in the car after he had his blue with Martin, I think you'll find.
The dispute between the team owner and the driver is worth more too. Tensions were high, and maybe I should explain how Geoff Sykes told Bob and I.
"Spencer is of the Roman Catholic faith," he said as he watched our reactions, "Bob Atkin (chief mechanic and part owner of the team with David) is a Seventh Day Adventist, and David's a ... a Calathumpian or something..."
So the issues were these: Spencer was left on his own for Saturdays, well not completely. David Liddle was usually about, or someone like that, but Bob was the chief mechanic and though Spencer did a lot of the work himself, on race weekends he would have expected to have been able to concentrate on driving and signing autographs.
When Bob returned to the scene on the Sundays, he would find that the white EH station wagon or the red and white HD wagon would not be around. At least not until Spencer had been to Mass and back.
This was the crux of it. And let's face it, from Friday afternoon until some time close to race time on Sunday, the chief mechanic would have virtually no contact with the driver. David, of course, was busy with his duties to the Sunday Telegraph for a lot of the time.
Let's not forget, either, that the Ferrari 250LM was there to be raced as well in most cases.
So there you have some insight into the biggest bustup of the Australian racing scene of the sixties... well, at least the biggest that didn't involve Frank Matich. That's another story...
As it wasn't a main race I didn't readily find it. Seeing the Cook reference at the May meeting I assumed I was getting confused with the time that Palmer drove the Scuderia Veloce Brabham at the Farm after Martin and McKay had had their bustup.
He was running fourth in that race, by the way, before finishing third and getting lucky for second. He had to pass Glynn Scott in the Bowin. I would bet more money than you and I have combined that the BT11A never raced again after the Tasman Cup was over.
As for spotting mistakes... well, it's Niel Allen... that's important. Allan Moffat might also prefer correct spelling... and it's Symmons Plains too. I think it's worth mentioning that Harvey and the Repco V8 came as a package, Phillips was getting a bit shaky about how much this Gold Star lark was costing and it was a neat way out for him and fitted in with both Jane and Shell, who backed both teams. Also important is that Martin's Gold Star win was the first that Shell took off BP. I think Mobil had won one back in the fifties.
As mentioned above, Cook was down to drive the car at that May meeting. Bevan Gibson was spannering with the team at that time, by the way.
The issue of the monocular vision was cut and dried. It simply wasn't allowed for a racing licence in Australia... no matter what happened anywhere else. This is why McKay didn't continue with Palmer in the car after he had his blue with Martin, I think you'll find.
The dispute between the team owner and the driver is worth more too. Tensions were high, and maybe I should explain how Geoff Sykes told Bob and I.
"Spencer is of the Roman Catholic faith," he said as he watched our reactions, "Bob Atkin (chief mechanic and part owner of the team with David) is a Seventh Day Adventist, and David's a ... a Calathumpian or something..."
So the issues were these: Spencer was left on his own for Saturdays, well not completely. David Liddle was usually about, or someone like that, but Bob was the chief mechanic and though Spencer did a lot of the work himself, on race weekends he would have expected to have been able to concentrate on driving and signing autographs.
When Bob returned to the scene on the Sundays, he would find that the white EH station wagon or the red and white HD wagon would not be around. At least not until Spencer had been to Mass and back.
This was the crux of it. And let's face it, from Friday afternoon until some time close to race time on Sunday, the chief mechanic would have virtually no contact with the driver. David, of course, was busy with his duties to the Sunday Telegraph for a lot of the time.
Let's not forget, either, that the Ferrari 250LM was there to be raced as well in most cases.
So there you have some insight into the biggest bustup of the Australian racing scene of the sixties... well, at least the biggest that didn't involve Frank Matich. That's another story...
#21
Milan Fistonic
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Posted 13 September 2002 - 09:08
This is from Barry Green's Longford book.
He [Harvey] took with him to Jane the 1965 Formula 2 chassis Bob Brittain adapted to take a Repco V8. However, Jane mechanic John Sawyer dropped the V8 into Martin's '64 Brabham chassis, a car imported for the 1965 Tasman by Scuderia Veloce for Graham Hill to drive.
He [Harvey] took with him to Jane the 1965 Formula 2 chassis Bob Brittain adapted to take a Repco V8. However, Jane mechanic John Sawyer dropped the V8 into Martin's '64 Brabham chassis, a car imported for the 1965 Tasman by Scuderia Veloce for Graham Hill to drive.
#22
Ray Bell
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Posted 13 September 2002 - 09:16
I haven't read that book...
But that account is more on the pace than I would have expected following a review of his Mildren biography. What is really omitted is the Shell influence... and money... that was involved.
Poor Britto.
But that account is more on the pace than I would have expected following a review of his Mildren biography. What is really omitted is the Shell influence... and money... that was involved.
Poor Britto.
#23
David Shaw
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Posted 18 September 2002 - 13:07
In the Gold Star race at Surfers' Paradise on August 27, 1967 Spencer Martin won the race in Jane's Repco-Brabham-Climax, and although he didn't race (cracked cylinder liner in practice), John Harvey qualified his Repco-Brab. V8 (presumably the BT14 of Ron Phillips) in 4th position. This inidicates that Harvey already was in a Repco V8 Brabham before taking over Martin's BT11A, which was at this time Climax powered. Source - Racing Car News October 1967.
#24
Ray Bell
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Posted 18 September 2002 - 13:39
Yes, that's right, the Phillips team had the V8 and Harvey...
The pair of them went to Jane as a package deal. Harvey's first run with the Repco engine was at Warwick Farm on May 14, where gearbox troubles sidelined him. The following week he was at Surfers and won as Cusack struck problems.
The car had run in the Tasman races in February with a 1.8 Ford engine, as it had finished the Gold Star the previous year (after wrapping up the ANF2 title...) and not raced between then and May as the Repco V8 was installed.
All of this vide RCN... and if you have the February issue of 1967, have a look at 'Blowbacks' and see why Bob and I were the subject of quite some attention in the pits at the Farm...
The pair of them went to Jane as a package deal. Harvey's first run with the Repco engine was at Warwick Farm on May 14, where gearbox troubles sidelined him. The following week he was at Surfers and won as Cusack struck problems.
The car had run in the Tasman races in February with a 1.8 Ford engine, as it had finished the Gold Star the previous year (after wrapping up the ANF2 title...) and not raced between then and May as the Repco V8 was installed.
All of this vide RCN... and if you have the February issue of 1967, have a look at 'Blowbacks' and see why Bob and I were the subject of quite some attention in the pits at the Farm...
#25
Doug Nye
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Posted 18 September 2002 - 20:31
Forgive me for taking this somewhat OTP but I spent a large part of today at Goodwood with John McCormack - the former Tasman and Australian/NZ Formula 5000 driver - who was in very good form although plainly still affected in some measure by the road accident (as a passenger) en route to the Australian GP which ended his frontline career. How was he regarded in period by you followers of the game down under????
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#26
Ray Bell
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Posted 18 September 2002 - 21:35
Did you remember me to him?
John was a character of some different kind, really. For instance, I once asked him if he ever raced at Longford... his answer was, "No, I never raced at Longford, but I drove a racing car there."
Of course, that was the case with many at that final wet meeting... but it was also the way he approached racing.
Mostly...
Yet this same driver, who had (in his own words, expressed later) "ridden a few Elfins into the fence," drove the most inspired race at Sandown Park in 1973.
With a bolt that supported the top link mount in the bellhousing broken, the right rear corner of the car sagging dramatically, he ran wheel to wheel with Graham McRae, passing and repassing him, contesting the lead.
That was one gutsy drive, the equal of almost anything you ever saw anyway... Sandown is not a place for the half-hearted or the faint-hearted, the back straight being the quickest in racing here at that time and it led over that crest into the fast downhill esses... just picture it all coming undone as you went over that crest... and the place was bumpy as well... that must have been weighing on his mind.
There were other races too... and he took the fight right up to what he called the "Lola Push"... the group who drove the T332s and who ganged up to a degree to ensure that Lolas beat Elfins all the time.
Another point is that he drove the fastest ever lap recorded at Warwick Farm (a real drivers' circuit) with a Repco V8... again in an Elfin, though it must be said that it was right at the end of the Repco V8 period and tyres might have been on his side.
Above most of this was his engineering side... he was close to Phil Irving, of course, and he gathered a strong team around him so that he could meet the F5000 field head on. His appreciation for the historical significance of the McLaren was complete, when he fitted the Leyland V8 to it he made a point of not changing anything on the chassis, not doing anything that couldn't be reversed for posterity.
And his driving of this car couldn't be faulted... except perhaps that it showed up what might have been the one weakness he had in that area... he always reckoned he never reached its limits. And he was the only man I ever saw enter the South Curve at Phillip Island in a F5000 at full tilt without backing off.
Not the driver that KB was, nor in the Matich class at all, he did a good job. But that job didn't just begin on the grid and end at the chequered flag, he was involved from the conception of the car to the debriefing at the end of the day...
John was a character of some different kind, really. For instance, I once asked him if he ever raced at Longford... his answer was, "No, I never raced at Longford, but I drove a racing car there."
Of course, that was the case with many at that final wet meeting... but it was also the way he approached racing.
Mostly...
Yet this same driver, who had (in his own words, expressed later) "ridden a few Elfins into the fence," drove the most inspired race at Sandown Park in 1973.
With a bolt that supported the top link mount in the bellhousing broken, the right rear corner of the car sagging dramatically, he ran wheel to wheel with Graham McRae, passing and repassing him, contesting the lead.
That was one gutsy drive, the equal of almost anything you ever saw anyway... Sandown is not a place for the half-hearted or the faint-hearted, the back straight being the quickest in racing here at that time and it led over that crest into the fast downhill esses... just picture it all coming undone as you went over that crest... and the place was bumpy as well... that must have been weighing on his mind.
There were other races too... and he took the fight right up to what he called the "Lola Push"... the group who drove the T332s and who ganged up to a degree to ensure that Lolas beat Elfins all the time.
Another point is that he drove the fastest ever lap recorded at Warwick Farm (a real drivers' circuit) with a Repco V8... again in an Elfin, though it must be said that it was right at the end of the Repco V8 period and tyres might have been on his side.
Above most of this was his engineering side... he was close to Phil Irving, of course, and he gathered a strong team around him so that he could meet the F5000 field head on. His appreciation for the historical significance of the McLaren was complete, when he fitted the Leyland V8 to it he made a point of not changing anything on the chassis, not doing anything that couldn't be reversed for posterity.
And his driving of this car couldn't be faulted... except perhaps that it showed up what might have been the one weakness he had in that area... he always reckoned he never reached its limits. And he was the only man I ever saw enter the South Curve at Phillip Island in a F5000 at full tilt without backing off.
Not the driver that KB was, nor in the Matich class at all, he did a good job. But that job didn't just begin on the grid and end at the chequered flag, he was involved from the conception of the car to the debriefing at the end of the day...
#27
Doug Nye
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Posted 19 September 2002 - 08:45
I'll take that as 'pro' then. John told me the Longford story in exactly those terms. What really impressed him was when he was lapped by Amon, Clark and G. Hill in the pouring rain: "Chris came by me into one of those medium fast corners and as he stood on it there was the Ferrari about a car's length in front of me - drowning me with spray - flat on the throttle and slapping from lock to lock. And in view of the weather conditions these guys had told the organisers they didn't want to race! When the organisers said to them 'Won't you just go out and run around for the crowd?'
Jim Clark had said quietly:
'No.
'If we Run. We Race'.
And they did.
DCN
Jim Clark had said quietly:
'No.
'If we Run. We Race'.
And they did.
DCN
#28
Ray Bell
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Posted 19 September 2002 - 11:30
He hasn't changed his tune in the intervening 16 years then...
Did he mention Pedro sitting in the corner simply repeating, whenever he was asked whether or not the event should go on, "We race!"
All jokes aside, though, it must have been horrendous. There was a lot of water lying around, from all accounts, there were wire fences lining the road, trees, they were on wider tyres than ever before... quite daunting
Did he mention Pedro sitting in the corner simply repeating, whenever he was asked whether or not the event should go on, "We race!"
All jokes aside, though, it must have been horrendous. There was a lot of water lying around, from all accounts, there were wire fences lining the road, trees, they were on wider tyres than ever before... quite daunting
#29
Catalina Park
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Posted 19 September 2002 - 12:01
I met John McCormack at Oran Park in 1980 a couple of months before has accident, and he took the time to have a chat to me (a 17 year old nobody!)
He impressed me with his knowledge as a designer and as a driver and could explain technical bits so that anyone could understand.
He told me that he was going to give the McLaren a run in the AGP and was going to concentrate on the Jaguar XJS Sports Sedan that he was running.
I said that I would see him at the AGP but I never did
He impressed me with his knowledge as a designer and as a driver and could explain technical bits so that anyone could understand.
He told me that he was going to give the McLaren a run in the AGP and was going to concentrate on the Jaguar XJS Sports Sedan that he was running.
I said that I would see him at the AGP but I never did
#30
Ray Bell
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Posted 19 September 2002 - 12:32
My next encounter with him was in the SCCSA Clubrooms the night before the 1986 AGP...
He was with Phil Irving, who demonstrated the most efficient way to hold a glass of beer.
Utilising all known scientific principles, he held it with a thumb on the rim and two fingers gripping the lower edge of the glass. This prevented too much transfer of warmth from the hand to the beerglass. It was a very instructive discussion.
But Phil was like that, it was hard to talk with him for very long without learning something. Like the night after practice at Phillip Island's 1974/5 New Years meeting, when he headed one of the teams repairing holes in the roadway at various points around the circuit.
They were mixing small quantities of concrete and filling the holes with it. I joined in, still wearing my driving suit. I think it impressed him that a competitor might actually be seen doing something to help. Anyway, he had his old Landrover there ticking away on idle for long periods as we carried out this work and that became the topic of conversation.
He reckoned that it was okay to leave it idling, that they were built to do that and no significant wear would result. He related how one was left idling at Lake Eyre during the time Donald Campbell's record attempt was on and had been abandoned overnight for some reason. It ran out of petrol sitting out there on the lakebed ticking over quietly...
He was with Phil Irving, who demonstrated the most efficient way to hold a glass of beer.
Utilising all known scientific principles, he held it with a thumb on the rim and two fingers gripping the lower edge of the glass. This prevented too much transfer of warmth from the hand to the beerglass. It was a very instructive discussion.
But Phil was like that, it was hard to talk with him for very long without learning something. Like the night after practice at Phillip Island's 1974/5 New Years meeting, when he headed one of the teams repairing holes in the roadway at various points around the circuit.
They were mixing small quantities of concrete and filling the holes with it. I joined in, still wearing my driving suit. I think it impressed him that a competitor might actually be seen doing something to help. Anyway, he had his old Landrover there ticking away on idle for long periods as we carried out this work and that became the topic of conversation.
He reckoned that it was okay to leave it idling, that they were built to do that and no significant wear would result. He related how one was left idling at Lake Eyre during the time Donald Campbell's record attempt was on and had been abandoned overnight for some reason. It ran out of petrol sitting out there on the lakebed ticking over quietly...
#31
Ray Bell
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Posted 19 September 2002 - 22:35
Originally posted by Doug Nye
I'll take that as 'pro' then...
I've been thinking about this since I posted previously...
Going back to 1968, the topic of this thread, John wasn't a starter in any of the races, still being a local driver in Tasmania. The top driver there, I guess, he and David Sternberg (Lotus 32B climax) were the only ones with 2.5s in Tassie at the time, and there was the Mildren Maser fitted with an Olds V8 in the sports cars on the Apple Isle.
He progressed from the Brabham to an Elfin 600, which was fitted with his Climax 2.5 engine. At this time he started racing on the mainland and particularly against the Elfin Repco V8 of Elfin builder Garrie Cooper. I believe that if the records were consulted, we would find that McCormack was turning in the fastest-ever Climax-powered laps at some of the circuits on which he raced, but again there was the fact that the newer chassis and later tyres were on his side.
He didn't fare well at Lakeside, a circuit that takes some learning, but at Mallala and Sandown he was pretty well matching Cooper's pace. Then Mal Ramsay joined this Elfin trio of ANF1 cars with a Repco engine, and by the end of 1970 John had his own Repco V8. He even took pole and a new outright lap record at Mallala's Gold Star event, but blew up his engine at Warwick Farm practising for the Grand Prix.
By now, of course, the Gold Star was changing to a new formula, 2 litres racing engines, 5 litres production V8s. The Tasman included the 2.5s, however, and he ran at the Farm (I'm sure his lap time in the race was 1:27.5, but whatever it was it was the best ever for a Repco 2.5 V8) and finished in a lowly placing, from memory. But F5000s were in full swing and dominant, with a good entry, too.
By the end of the year he was in an Elfin MR5 in company with Garrie Cooper in their long-lived (but testier than most understood) partnership with Ansett Team Elfin. The ML/MR6 followed, and then the M23 McLaren and ultimately, but for one meeting only IIRC, the IMC cylinder heads on this car.
Along the way he indulged in Sports Sedan racing too, building the radically different and very successful Charger before finally completing his Leyland association with the Jaguar XJS.
As you well know, he is now in the business of supplying mining equipment or something, like Birrana do... a pragmatic man who missed out on winning the Australian Grand Prix for the want of a stronger suspension mounting bolt, I always enjoy talking to him. I'm sure you did too.
#32
David McKinney
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Posted 20 September 2002 - 05:18
..but he did win the New Zealand Grand Prix twiceOriginally posted by Ray Bell
a pragmatic man who missed out on winning the Australian Grand Prix for the want of a stonger suspension mounting bolt
#33
Ray Bell
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Posted 20 September 2002 - 05:44
Originally posted by David McKinney
...but he did win the New Zealand Grand Prix twice
And that cursed McRae won the AGP three times!...
Each time, by the way, at Sandown, and by a pure coincidence he won it every time he contested it.
But there's no doubt that McCormack should have won it in 1973. The race was in his pocket till that bolt broke.
#34
Doug Nye
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Posted 20 September 2002 - 12:59
Ray - so tell us about your hero Cassius McRae then.....? 
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#35
Ray Bell
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Posted 20 September 2002 - 13:20
He's a Kiwi, built his own car with a twin cam Ford engine...
