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Yeoman Credit/Bowmaker

Started by Barry Boor , Apr 28 2002 07:59

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87 replies to this topic

#51 lynmeredith

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Posted 10 May 2002 - 08:30

Originally posted by Russ Gannicott
does anyone know anything about Gillian Harris who worked for Aston Martin as competitions secretary, and then Reg Parnell during this period (joining Oct. '60). If I could trace Gillian, I'm sure she'd have loads of helpfull information!

Russ

Russ, I believe that this lady now lives in Melbourne Australia. If no-one else has any info at their fingertips I might be able to find a contact.

Lyn M

#52 Barry Boor

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Posted 10 May 2002 - 20:47

My step-daughter's partner owns a garage specialising in bodywork repairs and spraying. This evening I dropped in there and spent an hour going through paint colour slips to try to find a reasonable match for the old Yeoman Credit green.

Naturally I was working from memory so I couldn't be positive about any particular shade. After looking through literally thousands of colours, I came up with only ONE that was, to my eyes, a close match. It is a SEAT colour called Verde Bola. Citroen have one that I think is too light but fairly close - Jaune Pastell (yes, I know jaune is yellow!)

As an aside and on a totally different colour - has anyone noticed how few light grey cars there are around these days? Getting a light grey for Stirling's 250F has proved virtually impossible. So mine is, at present, red with a green nose.

#53 David McKinney

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Posted 11 May 2002 - 06:26

Originally posted by Barry Boor
As an aside and on a totally different colour - has anyone noticed how few light grey cars there are around these days? Getting a light grey for Stirling's 250F has proved virtually impossible. So mine is, at present, red with a green nose.

There are of course many colour choices for the Moss 250F apart from grey - green (I think in two different shades at different times), red with green noseband (as you said), whiteish with those garish red white and blue stripes up the nose and, in its New Zealand period, black with first a white noseband, and later yellow. (Well at least it was distinctive).
Of course when it was red and green it had different bodywork from its later grey days.

#54 Russ Gannicott

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Posted 14 May 2002 - 07:21

Regarding YC/B colours, I'm currently in contact with the S-T family and will try and get some confirmations.
A couple more thoughts;
What happened to the trophies? YC were to keep them, but Nicky S-T tells me the family only have a few, the BRDC haven't got them...did the drivers keep them after all?

Also, Bowmaker involvement must have pre-dated the '62 season as I have a postcard of Moss driving a Lotus Monte Carlo at Silverstone in '61 with a huge Bowmaker hoarding in the background. Does anyone remember these adverts, and when they started?

Finally, where can I find information on the Bowmaker entered, Surtees driven Ferrari for the '62 Tourist Trophy?

Russ

#55 Gil Bouffard

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Posted 15 May 2002 - 20:30

OK Folks...I sit corrected (Ever try standing infront of a keyboard? My arms aren't long enough.)

Regardless, MOTORSPORT December 1997, page 78/79. Large colour picture of Bruce Halford and Henry Taylor (not Chris Bristow) in their Coopers surrounding the bright RED Talbot Lago Course Car at Reims.

While the article (by Robert Edwards), deals primarily with BRP it starts the history with the Samengo-Turner brothers offering Ken Gregory a handsome of money to be spent on an operation called "Yeoman Credit Racing Team."

The signage on the transporter in the above mentioned picture says. "Yeoman Credit Racing Team-Managed by the British Racing Partnership Limited..

Gil Bouffard

#56 Paul S-T

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 14:35

Being a Samengo-Turner, perhaps I can help. Yeoman Credit was a fast growing Hire Purchase company specialising in lending for car purchases. The company was private and belonged to the Samengo-Turner family. It was run by the father and his three sons. They decided to advertize via Formula 1, in which they all had a passionate interest. At the time, professional sports sponsorship was not allowed, so they decided to own the team and in this way publicize the name.
The colours started with the green/red moving to dark blue/red with Bowmaker.
Initially running Cooper Climaxes in competition with the works team, they moved to Lola Climax as the works team.
They were negotiating with Ferrari to run at Le Mans with Gendebien, at one point but the negotiation failed on who should win if the works team was lying second.
They subsequently decided to go public by reversing into Bowmaker. They took the team with them. The adventure ended in the early sixties, with John Surtees moving to Ferrari and a world championship.
I was a small boy at the time and memory can be treacherous, but I believe that this is a correct version of events. What I do remember very well is sitting in John Surtees' car and asking him where he kept all the trophies from his motor cycling days.

#57 Vicuna

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 17:19

Welcome

#58 Ray Bell

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 18:05

Originally posted by Vicuna
Welcome

Indeed... it's nice to hear from someone who 'was there' in this particular aspect of things.

I daresay Paul would enjoy some of Barry Boor's 'load of old rubbish' thread too.

#59 Barry Boor

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:50

Just building my first 1960 Yeoman Credit Cooper for slot car racing it occurs to me that I haven't seen a picture of any of the team cars with a full screen.

All the pictures in the Ken Gregory book seem to show cut down screens so I'm wondering if they used such a screen for the whole season.

#60 David McKinney

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 17:23

Full screens were used, but possibly only in F2

#61 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 18:22

Just building my first 1960 Yeoman Credit Cooper for slot car racing it occurs to me that I haven't seen a picture of any of the team cars with a full screen.

All the pictures in the Ken Gregory book seem to show cut down screens so I'm wondering if they used such a screen for the whole season.

The Klemantaski Collection has some shots in their gallery which I believe show full screens:

http://www.klemcoll.com/

Go to Grand Prix, Cooper, 1960-1969

Vince H.

#62 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 18:22

Just building my first 1960 Yeoman Credit Cooper for slot car racing it occurs to me that I haven't seen a picture of any of the team cars with a full screen.

All the pictures in the Ken Gregory book seem to show cut down screens so I'm wondering if they used such a screen for the whole season.

The Klemantaski Collection has some shots in their gallery which I believe show full screens:

http://www.klemcoll.com/

Go to Grand Prix, Cooper, 1960-1969

Vince H.

#63 Barry Boor

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 18:30

Of the two Y.C. images that I could see only one has a full screen and that is, as David says, an F.2 car.

#64 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 18:31

None of my pictures F1 or F2 show full screen.

But Barry according to your website you have made them , I have pictures showing F2 without and F1 with the tailfin . You would not be mixing the BRP and Yeoman and Parnell in 1960/61 would you ?

Edited by Bjorn Kjer, 27 July 2012 - 18:35.

#65 Barry Boor

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 18:50

I haven't made the 1960 cars. This is the first.

(Well, if you are counting those horrible things I made in the late 1990s I have but I don't count them.)

#66 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 19:03

They are in your "total" picture .

#67 Barry Boor

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 19:17

Can't recall which one that is, Bjorn. What's the URL of that page?

#68 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 20:14

I have mailed you .

#69 Barry Boor

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 08:32

So in the end I managed to cut down the screen:

Posted Image

I'm a little disappointed with the green. It was ordered as Toyota 521 but it has come out somewhat brighter than the Toyota 521 I had in Wales. Maybe it will fade.....

#70 D-Type

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 12:32

~

I'm a little disappointed with the green. It was ordered as Toyota 521 but it has come out somewhat brighter than the Toyota 521 I had in Wales. Maybe it will fade.....

But the sun in Malta is brighter!

#71 willga

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 21:11

...The colours started with the green/red moving to dark blue/red with Bowmaker.
Initially running Cooper Climaxes in competition with the works team, they moved to Lola Climax as the works team.

Does anyone have a modern approximation of the greeny-blue that the Bowmaker cars were run in?

Thanks

#72 Barry Boor

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 05:31

If your eventual colour has any green in it, it will probably be wrong. The cars were fairly clearly blue, IIRC - but maybe I don't.

#73 Repco22

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 09:29

This link is to the '63 NZGP site which contains a colour pic of the start. Surtees' and Maggs' blue and red Lolas can be seen. I hope that helps.
www.sergent.com.au/motor/1963.html
ISTR Surtees' Cooper Climax being on the cover of Sports Car World and that was blue and red--nothing green about the blue as I recall.

#74 David McKinney

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 11:01

I have several colour photos of the cars in period, but I don't trust the repro of any of them. Same goes for the one on the Sergent site. My clear memory from the day is that there was a hint of green in the blue - I've decribed it before as a very dark turquoise

#75 Barry Boor

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 11:40

I certainly wouldn't take any info from the V.8 Lolas that are around at the moment. They are nothing like the right colour.

There are two colour pictures in my John Surtees book. One of a '61 Cooper, the other a '62 Lola. They look a similar colour and I could only describe it one way - dark blue.

#76 Nigel Beresford

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 13:23

As I've mentioned before, my dad worked on Salvadori's car (I think that's him at the wheel of the Jag, or whatever it is). This is a scanning from a transparency from his collections. The BRP cars in the background should give someone familiar with that colour an idea of how accurately the blue of the Yeoman Credit Lola is rendered. Personally I never saw any green element to the blue of the Yeoman Credit cars.

I'd appreciate any information on the event depicted, thanks. Nigel

upload pictures

Edited by Nigel Beresford, 21 August 2012 - 13:28.

#77 David McKinney

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 13:29

As in Post 74, I have yet to see a period photo that accurately reproduces the colour...

#78 Roger Clark

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 14:10

I'd appreciate any information on the event depicted, thanks. Nigel

I think that it's the Danish Grand Prix, August 25/26 1962. As well as the Lolas, we can see the UDT Lotus 24s of Gregory (number 12 with BRM engine) and Ireland (Climax engine). Ireland raced with number 10, but I can't explain the number on the car in the picture, The car in the foreground may be Brabham's Lotus which won the race.

Edited by Roger Clark, 21 August 2012 - 14:11.

#79 nicanary

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 14:18

The location would make sense, because that's not a Jag in the foreground, but a Volvo 122S. That guy with his foot on the Lola's wheel looks a heck of a lot like Roy Salvadori.

#80 Nigel Beresford

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 15:43

I think that it's the Danish Grand Prix, August 25/26 1962. As well as the Lolas, we can see the UDT Lotus 24s of Gregory (number 12 with BRM engine) and Ireland (Climax engine). Ireland raced with number 10, but I can't explain the number on the car in the picture, The car in the foreground may be Brabham's Lotus which won the race.

Ah... UDT Lotuses, not BRP. Thanks for the event ID.

Edited by Nigel Beresford, 21 August 2012 - 15:53.

#81 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 16:06

No doubt it is Roskilde Ring 25/26-8 1962 .

#82 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 16:37

Nigel , the Lotuses were BRP Lotuses , but the team BRP was sponsored by UDT Laystall in 1961 & 62 thus called UDT.

Edited by Bjorn Kjer, 21 August 2012 - 16:38.

#83 Nigel Beresford

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 16:58

Nigel , the Lotuses were BRP Lotuses , but the team BRP was sponsored by UDT Laystall in 1961 & 62 thus called UDT.

Ah, thanks for the clarification - I was clearly out of my comfort zone. It's a couple of years before my time, though I do remember going to the Yeoman Credit workshops as a small child. Here's one from that time, to prove that it wasn't spit 'n' sawdust back then:

And because I know you like your transporters...what's this?

#84 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 05:42

As in Post 74, I have yet to see a period photo that accurately reproduces the colour...

1962 Dutch GP

Photo by Ted Langton-Adams, copyright Eric Faulks

Vince H.

#85 Barry Boor

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 05:52

You can say that colour reproduction is inaccurate, di-da, di-da, di-da.... but that looks pretty close to what I recall.

#86 Rob29

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:25

You can say that colour reproduction is inaccurate, di-da, di-da, di-da.... but that looks pretty close to what I recall.

Yep,me too-I was at Snetterton,Goodwood,Aintree,Silverstone,Crystal Palace & AintreeGP-filmed some with my 8mm cine camera-video copy currently with local photo shop for copying to DVD :wave:

#87 D-Type

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 14:24

1962 Dutch GP

Photo by Ted Langton-Adams, copyright Eric Faulks

Vince H.

I've just come across this. Does anyone recognise the two ladies pictured and know how to contact them? If so, they will know exactly what colours they were wearing 50 years ago.

#88 retriever

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 19:22

Ah, thanks for the clarification - I was clearly out of my comfort zone. It's a couple of years before my time, though I do remember going to the Yeoman Credit workshops as a small child. Here's one from that time, to prove that it wasn't spit 'n' sawdust back then:

And because I know you like your transporters...what's this?

A Bedford TK.