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OT: The Dambusters - seventy years have passed...


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#251 Geoff E

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 20:19

I think the link title says it all http://www.thisislin...tail/story.html

... but as the board automatically shortens links, perhaps it doesn't after all. :blush:

Edited by Geoff E, 02 January 2012 - 20:20.


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#252 Gary Davies

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 00:33

And now.. 70 years. The Derwent reservoir flypast in this link.

So moving.

#253 Allan Lupton

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 07:30

And now.. 70 years. The Derwent reservoir flypast in this link.

So moving.

as was last night's sunset ceremony at Scampton as seen on TV.
Got me thinking about what I did in May 1943, which led to noticing yet again how very young many of the aircrew were - some only 13 years older than me and even Gibson was only 25 when he led the raid.

#254 Odseybod

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 08:29

some only 13 years older than me and even Gibson was only 25 when he led the raid.


And he was the Old Man (24 at the time of the raid?).

Quite enjoyed the programme and thought it good of them to include a few howlers for TNF viewers to get indignant about (talking about the Merlins in the Griffon Spits, for one).

Would also have liked to see the view from the bomb-aimer's position in the Lanc, rather than the usual one from the mid-upper turret, but maybe the camera person couldn't get in there with his bulky gear?

Slight OT, am I right in thinking the Dambusters film was required to show the mine as a sphere rather than a drum, as it was still on the secret list, or is that more urban folklore?


#255 Vitesse2

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 08:47

Quite enjoyed the programme and thought it good of them to include a few howlers for TNF viewers to get indignant about (talking about the Merlins in the Griffon Spits, for one).

Dan Snow was slightly less Tigger-ish than usual (and did correct Eddie Butler's Griffon/Merlin error, I think), but he did drop one enormous bollock when he asked Barnes Wallis' daughter if her father had viewed the Dambusters raid as a highlight of his career. Has he not seen the film and the scene where Wallis discovers how many aircrew had been lost? His daughter was polite enough not to slap him down about it, but she didn't seem best pleased by the question - especially when he showed up his lack of proper research by saying the letter he was quoting had been written when she was eleven rather than fourteen.

Overall, though, a pleasing programme and you have to give credit to the pilot of the Lanc for arriving what looked like bang on time to the second and parking the thing straight and within about six inches of symmetrical behind the flagpole.

#256 Tony Matthews

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 09:20

Dan Snow was slightly less Tigger-ish than usual (and did correct Eddie Butler's Griffon/Merlin error, I think), but he did drop one enormous bollock when he asked Barnes Wallis' daughter if her father had viewed the Dambusters raid as a highlight of his career.

I agree, Dan Snow had obvioulsy taken an anti-Tigger pill, but even so he was not really in touch with wjhat was going on and who he was talking to. Suggesting to the Kiwi Dambuster that flying to the UK for the event must have been demanding... Yes, probably a lot more demanding than flying a Lancaster across Germany at night, etc, etc. Surely, Barnes Wallis' daughter had said earlier in the programme that her father was devastated by the loss of crew, or have I mixed that in from another programme? All in all, a moving event, and would have been better without either presenter.

#257 JtP1

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 09:25

Dan Snow was slightly less Tigger-ish than usual (and did correct Eddie Butler's Griffon/Merlin error, I think), but he did drop one enormous bollock when he asked Barnes Wallis' daughter if her father had viewed the Dambusters raid as a highlight of his career. Has he not seen the film and the scene where Wallis discovers how many aircrew had been lost? His daughter was polite enough not to slap him down about it, but she didn't seem best pleased by the question - especially when he showed up his lack of proper research by saying the letter he was quoting had been written when she was eleven rather than fourteen.

Overall, though, a pleasing programme and you have to give credit to the pilot of the Lanc for arriving what looked like bang on time to the second and parking the thing straight and within about six inches of symmetrical behind the flagpole.



The BBC or any modern revisionist history program maker actually doing research and getting their facts right? You must be joking. Timewatch was especially bad at one point. One only has to check the thread on the BBC review of GP in the 50s to 70s to see the level of research.

#258 Nick Savage

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 09:45



Slight OT, am I right in thinking the Dambusters film was required to show the mine as a sphere rather than a drum, as it was still on the secret list, or is that more urban folklore?
[/quote]

Yes, spot on : not an urban myth, but the Ministry still had the shape on the Secret List - this, despite the Germans finding a nearly complete Upkeep lying amongst the woods after the raid. German scientists worked through the principles and (if I recall the footage correctly) then experimented with dropping a smaller version from an Fw 190 in trials. Never used in action.

Off on another footnote, the small bar at the Petwood Hotel, Woodhall Spa, the squadron aircrew bar, used to have a three-metre piece of the top of a fir tree that one of the 617 pilots had collected on his Lancaster's tail wheel when practising low-flying prior to the raid. No wonder they were popular with the locals...

The Petwood led a very chequered life in the 70s and 80s, going bankrupt every 2 years or so, but I have not been in recently - has anyone here been there in the last couple of years ?
Nick

#259 plannerpower

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 10:46

Not directly connected to the Dambusters but a wonderful film of Lancasters and their crews;



There can't be very much film of Lancasters line-astern on the perimeter track of a WW2 airfield.

I was also struck by the similarity of the narration to Len Deighton's "Bomber"; a great read for anyone interested in Lancasters, WW2 and Bomber Command.

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#260 Derwent Motorsport

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 13:34

Good show last night and on Radio 2 this morning. Really surprised that there was no Royal person at the ceremony. Ideal for prince William I would have thought.

#261 kayemod

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 13:40

Good show last night and on Radio 2 this morning.


I'm beginning to wish that I'd seen it, but the advertised presence of Dan Snow persuaded me not to bother. Wonder if it will be repeated? Almost everything seems to be these days, usually several times.


#262 Vitesse2

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 14:30

I'm beginning to wish that I'd seen it, but the advertised presence of Dan Snow persuaded me not to bother. Wonder if it will be repeated? Almost everything seems to be these days, usually several times.

It appears not, but it's on iPlayer: http://www.bbc.co.uk...s_70_Years_On/#

#263 mfd

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 19:21

The Petwood led a very chequered life in the 70s and 80s, going bankrupt every 2 years or so, but I have not been in recently - has anyone here been there in the last couple of years ?


They're doing fine Nick - celebrations all this week & the bar is 1940s style! Tomorrow locally at the "Kinema in the Woods" which is another popular throwback to old style cinema is showing the film followed by a lunch at the Petworth - http://www.petwood.co.uk/

#264 MartLgn

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:20

I was fortunate enough to see the BBMF Lancaster fly fairly low over the house a couple of years ago on its way to an event in the North East. It's route took it very close to the former AVRO factory in Chadderton although I have since learned that this particular aircraft was built in Chester. The recent BBC and C4 documentaries and reconstructions have their faults but it does no harm to remind us of the ingenuity and tenacity of Barnes Wallis and the skill and unbelievable bravery of the young men who delivered these weapons into the then enemys back yard.


#265 Paul Parker

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 15:22

I was fortunate enough to see the BBMF Lancaster fly fairly low over the house a couple of years ago on its way to an event in the North East. It's route took it very close to the former AVRO factory in Chadderton although I have since learned that this particular aircraft was built in Chester. The recent BBC and C4 documentaries and reconstructions have their faults but it does no harm to remind us of the ingenuity and tenacity of Barnes Wallis and the skill and unbelievable bravery of the young men who delivered these weapons into the then enemys back yard.


Given the current and ongoing saga of the German domination of the EU and its attendant manufacturing prosperity the description of said country as 'the then enemy' is perhaps not quite accurate. :)

#266 cpbell

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 15:22

I was fortunate enough to see the BBMF Lancaster fly fairly low over the house a couple of years ago on its way to an event in the North East. It's route took it very close to the former AVRO factory in Chadderton although I have since learned that this particular aircraft was built in Chester. The recent BBC and C4 documentaries and reconstructions have their faults but it does no harm to remind us of the ingenuity and tenacity of Barnes Wallis and the skill and unbelievable bravery of the young men who delivered these weapons into the then enemys back yard.


It flew over our house a few years back - what a sound! :love:

#267 Gary Davies

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 05:09

Pardon me if something like this has already been posted, but it seems that progress with Peter Jackson's mooted remake of The Dam Busters is, er, making very little progress at all. See http://dambustersblo...busters-remake/

 


Mr Jackson seems to be a tad irritated by frequent questions as to how the project is going, viz: "There is only a limited span I can abide, of people driving me nuts asking me when I’m going to do that project." The problem, apparently, lies with endless Hobbit films. (Never seen one, never likely to.)

 

But he also said: "We still have the rights, and it’s one in a little pot of movies. We don’t have a next movie nailed down, but certainly The Dam Busters is one of them." 



#268 Allan Lupton

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 08:00

A remake seems unnecessary to me - what can it add except paid work for a large number of people in the film industry? If Mr Jackson's comments are accuratly quoted, let us hope that the scriptwriter's command of English is better!



#269 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 08:01

This thread needs a name change, it is 70 years now. :wave:



#270 Gary Davies

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 08:49

As the fred starter, let's see if the system will le me do it... (darts off to try)

 

.... apparently it won't.

 

Seems a reasonable point, Lee.

 

If his honour the Nostalgia Forum Moderator sees fit, perhaps he could do the deed.  :wave:



#271 Vitesse2

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 09:14

As the fred starter, let's see if the system will le me do it... (darts off to try)

 

.... apparently it won't.

 

Seems a reasonable point, Lee.

 

If his honour the Nostalgia Forum Moderator sees fit, perhaps he could do the deed.  :wave:

Done. :wave: (I did try to do a strikethrough of sixty to highlight the change, but apparently HTML doesn't work in thread titles!)



#272 kayemod

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 13:18

This is the Möhne Dam as it is today, or a couple of years ago at any rate, probably looking exactly as it would have done a year or so after the raid, when it had been repaired by thousands of Organisation Todt slave labourers, most of them Russians or other eastern European prisoners, thousands of whom died during the work. It's interesting to note, something I've never seen mentioned in any of the numerous Dambusters TV programmes, that these slave labourers were hurriedly shipped from working on the Atlantic Wall defences on the French coast, which would have meant that Our Boys had slightly less to contend with on D Day than they might otherwise have done. I think that the fact that repairing the dam was regarded as such a high priority by Germany's wartime leaders is highly significant, and any revisionist historians claiming that the raid was a waste of men and resources would do well to remember that.

 

DSC_0009.jpg



#273 elansprint72

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 17:20

Attached is the flight schedule for the TWO Lancasters over the next few weeks:

 

http://www.warplane....14-uk-tour.aspx



#274 elansprint72

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 10:36

Found on youtube, amongst many other clips:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=_W58OAVHfvg



#275 Alan Cox

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 19:22

A somewhat indifferent effort from Sunday at Goodwood

 

IMG_4052-Copy_zps356d5dac.jpg

 



#276 Paul Hurdsfield

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 14:12

Here is my effort from a hill overlooking Holmfirth a week or so ago.

IMGP9713.jpg

 

IMGP9713JPGcopy.jpg



#277 Snakedriver

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 01:06

I just cant help it!

 

Im an American, and have not watched U-271 or Pearl Harbor!  I do not approve of any twisting of history.  I do however enjoy a good war story.

 

I would like close by telling the Hollywood set that we have just as good, interesting, and heroic history as anybody.  So stop intercoursing it up!

 

Now that I mentioned it:  Does anybody know the difference between a fairy tale and a war story?

A:  A fairy tale starts out "Once upon a time..."  A war story starts out "No ****!  There I was..."

 

Cheers,

Leo



#278 kayemod

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 11:24

Thought you'd all enjoy this, from one of today's papers. It's the two surviving Lancasters flying over the Derwent reservoir near Sheffield yesterday afternoon, obviously well publicised given the number of 'twitchers' in attendance. This was where they trained for the raid of course, the Derwent dam and approaches are vaguely similar to the target Möhne dam. My dad was the officer in charge of the Royal Artillery gunners pretending to shoot the planes down with blank training rounds in their 40mm Bofors AA weapons. Of course, no-one there including the men in the planes had any idea what they were actually training for, Dad read the MoD authorised version in the Daily Telegraph a few days after it all happened. The pair of Lancs were on their way back to RAF Coningsby after attending an air show.

 

1411325963364_wps_8_21_09_14_The_last_tw



#279 kayemod

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 13:14

Somewhat off the subject of the Dambusters, but still with the Derwent reservoir, I couldn't help noticing from that last pic how low the water level is, clearly not much rain in those parts in recent months. I lived in the area most of my childhood, visited the place many times, and heard stories of how magnificent was the sight of water flowing over the dam after a lengthy wet period, usually following a winter thaw, but to my great disappointment, I never managed to see this awe inspiring sight. A few years ago, to mark a 'significant' birthday, my wife's present was a week's holiday in the Peak District, not far from my birthplace, (a whole week in a freezing and snowswept Yorkshire in early February, one of my best holidays ever, what could possibly beat that?) While walking around the nearby Ladybower reservoir, a friendly local told us that the Derwent and Howden dams were overflowing mightily, so we sped there as quickly as icy roads allowed, to see this wonderful sight.

 

DSC_0435.jpg

 

The sound and grandeur were almost beyond description, but apparently it's a rare occurrence these days. A year or two after this, we visited the Möhne dam that had been one of the Dambuster targets, and this one also overflows from time to time. I'm just back from a couple of weeks in Germany, but I'd be back like a shot if someone told me there was a chance of seeing the Möhne overflowing like this, almost as impressive a sight as Our Boys would have seen all those years ago after dropping their bombs.



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#280 elansprint72

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 18:55

15125249617_7b2e9f6ab2_b.jpg

I certainly chose the wrong day to go to the Southport Airshow; the weather was foul on Saturday and the Vulcan scrubbed, only to be re-scheduled for Sunday. Bugger!

 

15125201067_432d60b10d_b.jpg



#281 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 03:03

15125249617_7b2e9f6ab2_b.jpg

I certainly chose the wrong day to go to the Southport Airshow; the weather was foul on Saturday and the Vulcan scrubbed, only to be re-scheduled for Sunday. Bugger!

 

15125201067_432d60b10d_b.jpg

I had to look about 3 times, I thought it was a double exposure! Two Lancs up close, something you defenitly wont see very often! I do refer to the second pic, the one I saw first!


Edited by Lee Nicolle, 23 September 2014 - 03:06.


#282 Paul Hurdsfield

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 15:04

I had a couple similar to Pete's but they weren't very sharp, here's one as they started to turn away.

IMGP9734JPGcrop.jpg



#283 Robin Fairservice

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 16:30

I read this morning that the Canadian Lancaster has arrived back safely home in Canada.



#284 Gary Davies

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 13:56

An interesting story about the last British survivor of the Dambusters raid, George "Johnny" Johnson.

 

http://www.bbc.com/n...gazine-32497360



#285 Gary Davies

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 04:45

Some advice please. We have a very full trip to Blighty in early July and, at the last moment, a change to our itinerary has opened up the possibility of driving close to Lincoln and, thus... Scampton. I'm attracted by the idea of visiting the RAF Heritage Centre there. You have to book a visit and I haven't just yet. 

 

So my question is, is it worth a visit? 

 

I might say I have lots of brownie points up my sleeve. The Managing Director, bless her, has me visiting roughly half the open gardens in the British Isles! Never, in the field of human holidaying, will a Tom Tom have worked so hard for so long.



#286 pmurray

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 06:26

Gary,

 

We visited RAF Coningsby in June 2013.  It is the home for the BoB Memorial Flight and well worthwhile.  An unexpected bonus was to see the Lancaster, Spitfire and Hurricane prepared and take-off for a flight over nearby East Kirkby to mark the passing of one of the founders of the Lincolnshire Aviation Museum, Fred Panton.  No bookings were needed.  We arrived and were taken on a tour of the BoB hanger.

 

Perhaps the MD might grant you two wishes.

 

Peter



#287 Gary Davies

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 13:48

Thank you, Peter.



#288 Vitesse2

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 07:04

The last of the Dambusters pilots, Les Munro, has died.

 

http://www.stuff.co....-dambuster-dies

 

Johnny Johnson and Fred Sutherland - a Canadian - are the only living participants from the dams raid.



#289 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 08:40

The last of the Dambusters pilots, Les Munro, has died.

 

http://www.stuff.co....-dambuster-dies

 

Johnny Johnson and Fred Sutherland - a Canadian - are the only living participants from the dams raid.

Sad, but inevitable as it was such a long time ago.



#290 Gary Davies

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 08:46

RIP brave man. 



#291 JacnGille

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 13:14

Sad news



#292 MartLgn

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 17:35

Very sad news but 96 is a ripe old age and a life lived to the full!

 

The sight and sound of the last 2 flying Lancasters flying together still makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.  

 

Even after 72 years the ingenuity and sheer bravery of Operation Chastise still take ones breath away. It is a dreadful Shame that 617 Squadron is currently mothballed and that it is not due to fly again until next year at the earliest.



#293 FrankB

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 22:25

The Imperial War Museum's Duxford branch is going to commence a trial whereby the public will be able to enter its Lancaster. Everyday (including weekends) during the school holidays from now up to and including the May / June half term there will be three talks each day after which the aircraft will be opened up for limited and controlled access. Only around 8 feet of the fuselage is accessible, so the cockpit and turrets are not included, but there is a good view over the wing spar towards the forward crew positions.

#294 kayemod

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 13:14

Seventy four years ago today.

 

087d2784-d1af-46d2-8e32-7c725633eb8d.jpg

 

A photo taken a couple of years ago. There's a small souvenir shop at the car park end of the Mohne dam, slightly surprised that it didn't stock any model Lancasters, and didn't like to ask.



#295 Gary Davies

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 14:10

Sincere respect for some very brave men. And for all the people - on both sides - who died.



#296 FrankB

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 06:22

75 years ago tonight...

#297 Bloggsworth

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 13:07

A friend has tickets for the digitally remastered "Dam Busters" in Kingston Thursday evening - So, a round of golf, curry, then off to the kinematograph in the evening.



#298 Gary Davies

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 13:29

Gary,

 

We visited RAF Coningsby in June 2013.  It is the home for the BoB Memorial Flight and well worthwhile.  An unexpected bonus was to see the Lancaster, Spitfire and Hurricane prepared and take-off for a flight over nearby East Kirkby to mark the passing of one of the founders of the Lincolnshire Aviation Museum, Fred Panton.  No bookings were needed.  We arrived and were taken on a tour of the BoB hanger.

 

Perhaps the MD might grant you two wishes.

 

Peter

A tad late responding, but I did get back, on my Tod Sloan, in late 2016 and had a couple of jars at the Petwood Hotel at Woodford Spa, aka the 617 Squadron Officers' Mess. https://goo.gl/maps/tLKGuo3nH6E2 Hugely nostalgic.



#299 FrankB

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 16:23

A friend has tickets for the digitally remastered "Dam Busters" in Kingston Thursday evening - So, a round of golf, curry, then off to the kinematograph in the evening.


Similar, but in Cambridge after a day of teaching and a hurried jacket potato.

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#300 john aston

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 15:24

I may be swimming against the tide here but I really think we need to move on from endless commemoration of the two world wars. If anything , as a country , the UK seems ever more obsessed by the iconography of the past . Radio 4 has been running an endless series of life in WW1 , poppies now appear in September and whilst it is right we should quietly acknowledge the past and respect those who died in past conflicts I really think  that in the last decade or so we overdo it to the point of near hysteria  .  

 

As a kid I remember the dignity of the old boys from WW1 as we stood round the village war memorial on 11 November - but that was it , it wasn't an ongoing thing, we looked to  the future instead of endlessly replaying the past. Were we getting excited about the anniversary of the Crimean or Boer Wars , or the Indian Mutiny on their centenary ? I  don't think so

 

The other point is that we have friends on here from nations against whom we were fighting who may well have their own very different memories .

 

I am proud to be named after my uncle who died in WW2, in a Halifax , but that is a private family thing.

 

Can't we move on ? I think it is long overdue .     .   .