Piers Courage (merged)

Marked by Peter Windsor with a great front cover

http://peterwindsor....te-front-cover/

Haha thats a superb image.

 

Edited by Wirra, 24 June 2020 - 02:27.

Great shots Wirra. RIP Piers. Attached shot is after his great win at Longford in 1968 - feeling the cold!

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Work in progress...

From my own sadly small collection. Piers at Levin, January 1968, sitting on Jimmy's wheel. A paddock from a different era.

RIP Porridge - seriously good bloke.

PAul M

Could not agree more. Met him at Longford the year he won in the wet. What a charming man .

Could not agree more. Met him at Longford the year he won in the wet. What a charming man .

He was the same in person as he usually appeared in photographs, very pleasant and well mannered.

I met him in 1969 when I was working for H. R. Owen in Knightsbridge and he turned up one day with Simon Radcliffe, who was if I remember correctly, Owen's PR chief.

I remember visiting Piers's grave at Shenfield 3 years ago. My ex lived in town, and I'd thought I'd have a look while I was there. It wasn't in the best of repair, which I found surprising as the Courage family weren't the poorest in town.

I didn't take any photos. It seemed disrespectful at the time.

Edited by Lec CRP1, 02 July 2012 - 16:58.

Several years late I have just read this book and have slightly mixed feelings about it. It is far better written than the usual motor racing work but I do feel that Adam Cooper perhaps lacked some objectivity in the story. For example , the reader is often told that PC qualified 'an excellent '(or similar adjective ) 9th or 10th - on a grid of 12 or 14 cars. And he did seem to have an enormous number of shunts - I finished the book thinking that PC would have won GPs (but probably not if he'd stuck with Frank Williams as his time didn't really come for nearly another decade )anbut that he would not have been more than an occasional winner.Good sports car driver definitely .

But the results are irrelevant really as he came across as just the loveliest guy, even if the they 'didn't have two pennies to rub together' riff by the author wore a little thin re the 911 and Ferrari driving Piers.....How nice too to read of a racing driver who was actively interested in the arts and current affairs- I suspect some of the current crop live in a silly little bubble- remember Vettel's absurd comment in Bahrain that , in essence ,'never mind the riots and brutality lets talk about important stuff like tyres'. I doubt if PC would have been so mealy mouthed...

remember Vettel's absurd comment in Bahrain that , in essence ,'never mind the riots and brutality lets talk about important stuff like tyres'. I doubt if PC would have been so mealy mouthed...

He's an intelligent lad. Some misinterpretation here, I'm sure...

This is what he was reported to have said (checked on several sources);

"Generally, being in the paddock, there seems to be no problem," the Red Bull ace said. "Outside of the paddock maybe there is a risk, but there is a risk everywhere we go. If you imagine when we got to Brazil, it is not really the place we want to be as well. It is not a big problem and I am happy once we start testing tomorrow because then we can start worrying about the stuff that really matters like tyre temperatures, cars... I haven't seen anyone throwing bombs. I don't think it is that bad. There is a lot of hype which is why I think it is good that we start our job here which is the sport and nothing else."

. There is a lot of hype which is why I think it is good that we start our job here which is the sport and nothing else."

IT,s not a sport it,s a business you ill informed boy.

Several years late I have just read this book and have slightly mixed feelings about it. It is far better written than the usual motor racing work but I do feel that Adam Cooper perhaps lacked some objectivity in the story. For example , the reader is often told that PC qualified 'an excellent '(or similar adjective ) 9th or 10th - on a grid of 12 or 14 cars. And he did seem to have an enormous number of shunts - I finished the book thinking that PC would have won GPs (but probably not if he'd stuck with Frank Williams as his time didn't really come for nearly another decade )anbut that he would not have been more than an occasional winner.Good sports car driver definitely .

But the results are irrelevant really as he came across as just the loveliest guy, even if the they 'didn't have two pennies to rub together' riff by the author wore a little thin re the 911 and Ferrari driving Piers.....How nice too to read of a racing driver who was actively interested in the arts and current affairs- I suspect some of the current crop live in a silly little bubble- remember Vettel's absurd comment in Bahrain that , in essence ,'never mind the riots and brutality lets talk about important stuff like tyres'. I doubt if PC would have been so mealy mouthed...

Suggesting that he didn't have "two pennies to rub together" is rather wide of the mark. He lived in a manner that would be described as informal, most of the teams(aside from the "works" teams and even them at times) lived in a rough and ready manner. Sleeping in the back of the truck was no big deal, under the trailer was the norm, using the car as a tentpole to support the tarpaulin. This is not to decry PC, he was a very pleasant person, but things should really be put in perspective.

Several years late I have just read this book and have slightly mixed feelings about it. It is far better written than the usual motor racing work but I do feel that Adam Cooper perhaps lacked some objectivity in the story. For example , the reader is often told that PC qualified 'an excellent '(or similar adjective ) 9th or 10th - on a grid of 12 or 14 cars. And he did seem to have an enormous number of shunts - I finished the book thinking that PC would have won GPs (but probably not if he'd stuck with Frank Williams as his time didn't really come for nearly another decade )anbut that he would not have been more than an occasional winner.Good sports car driver definitely .

But the results are irrelevant really as he came across as just the loveliest guy, even if the they 'didn't have two pennies to rub together' riff by the author wore a little thin re the 911 and Ferrari driving Piers.....How nice too to read of a racing driver who was actively interested in the arts and current affairs- I suspect some of the current crop live in a silly little bubble- remember Vettel's absurd comment in Bahrain that , in essence ,'never mind the riots and brutality lets talk about important stuff like tyres'. I doubt if PC would have been so mealy mouthed...

John, Adam Cooper was unquestionably sympathetic to his subject but I think this may have contributed to what I thought was one of the most enjoyable motor sport biographies ever. An enthusiastic writer, plenty of research, lots of good photos and a likeable subject; a good recipe! I suspect that Piers', and particularly Sally's, politics would be miles to the right of mine, and their way of life slightly different, but who cares? As you say, Piers comes across as 'just the loveliest guy'. (And slightly OT I'm pleased that, at the first big meeting I ever attended - 1965 Int Trophy at Silverstone - he won the F3 race in one of Luke's Brabhams).

I read 'Last of the Gentlemen Racers' over the summer and thoroughly enjoyed it. I even stumbled upon some information that I hadn't heard before — apart from all the personal and racing details, of course, which were also new to me ;) — and that is that Rindt and Ecclestone were planning to set-up their own team, together, which contradicts the well-know fact that Rindt promised his wife Nina that he'd retire come the end of 1970 (which, ironically, he did, in a (sad) way).

I haven't read many of the Piers Courage items above, but I am an enthusiastic follower of Grand Prix racing. I am old enough to remember Stirling Moss in a Vanwall at Monaco a few days after the event on BBC - I guess they had to fly the film back in 1958.

Anyway, the first Grand Prix I attended was Silverstone in July 1969. An epic battle between Stewart and Rindt. However I don't know why Stewart says in his autobiography that they passed each other dozens of times (or words to that effect). I watched and filmed it in 8mm and there were no more than 5 passing manouvers between them at most during the whole race. Was Stewart delibaretly exaggerating, or was he just confused, given the vast number of racing laps he did in his career?

Getting back to the thread, in these days it was pretty easy to casually stroll into the paddock, or even into the pits. I was able to watch from above the pits (with no pass of any kind, just the cheapest ticket as a race spectator) as Rindt came screaming into the pits towards the end, to get his wayward wing end plate clipped off, as well as watching Hill come in at high speed pointing vigorously that he was almost out of fuel.

Rindt exited at high speed and passed Courage, I think on the last lap.

I walked down the stairs back into the paddock as the drivers returned after Stewart had deservedy won. I was standing there as Courage drove in and parked beside me. He stood up in his Brabham and said to his mechanics, thinking he was out of earshot: "****ing ****". I think, in relation to Rindt's pass.

I remember being slightly surprised by his language, given his Etomian and brewery dynasty upbringing, but later came to be more exposed to such colourful descriptions as I met more of these people I had erroneously thought were quite soft in their language.

I wandered uninterrupted through the paddock. From a few feet away I looked into the small caravan with Rindt and Hill recovering with no words being spoken, but with intense looks written on their faces - I think Chapman was sitting opposite. I knew then that Hill had met his match and that the future was not his - I already knew from watching Rindt during that race. TV cannot show the true ability of such drivers - but watching it live, you can.

I'm rambling a bit, having been to the pub earlier, but hope that this might be of some interest. I think these were better days, but I might be written off as an old fogey. Not that I care.

Anyway, the first Grand Prix I attended was Silverstone in July 1969. An epic battle between Stewart and Rindt. However I don't know why Stewart says in his autobiography that they passed each other dozens of times (or words to that effect). I watched and filmed it in 8mm and there were no more than 5 passing manouvers between them at most during the whole race. Was Stewart delibaretly exaggerating, or was he just confused, given the vast number of racing laps he did in his career?

This is confirmed by the race report and lap chart in Autosport. Rindt led from the start until he was passed by Stewart during lap 7. He got back in front on lap 16 and stayed there until lap 62, when Stewart got ahead again and Jochen stopped at the end of that lap to have the wing endplate problem fixed. No other passing manoeuvres are mentioned in the text.

Rindt made two pit stops, the first as mentioned to fix the endplate. The second was at the end of lap 77 (out of 84) to take on fuel. Following this stop he was somewhat demoralised and was passed by Courage, but woke up sufficiently to repass Piers on the last lap.

Edited by Tim Murray, 09 December 2012 - 06:40.

Presumably neither Spa's viewing point nor the Autosport lap-charter's had vision of the while circuit. There could have been other passing moves out of their sight, adding up to Stewart's "dozens". Or he could have been speaking loosely...

I haven't read many of the Piers Courage items above, but I am an enthusiastic follower of Grand Prix racing. I am old enough to remember Stirling Moss in a Vanwall at Monaco a few days after the event on BBC - I guess they had to fly the film back in 1958.

Anyway, the first Grand Prix I attended was Silverstone in July 1969. An epic battle between Stewart and Rindt. However I don't know why Stewart says in his autobiography that they passed each other dozens of times (or words to that effect). I watched and filmed it in 8mm and there were no more than 5 passing manouvers between them at most during the whole race. Was Stewart delibaretly exaggerating, or was he just confused, given the vast number of racing laps he did in his career?

Getting back to the thread, in these days it was pretty easy to casually stroll into the paddock, or even into the pits. I was able to watch from above the pits (with no pass of any kind, just the cheapest ticket as a race spectator) as Rindt came screaming into the pits towards the end, to get his wayward wing end plate clipped off, as well as watching Hill come in at high speed pointing vigorously that he was almost out of fuel.

Rindt exited at high speed and passed Courage, I think on the last lap.

I walked down the stairs back into the paddock as the drivers returned after Stewart had deservedy won. I was standing there as Courage drove in and parked beside me. He stood up in his Brabham and said to his mechanics, thinking he was out of earshot: "****ing ****". I think, in relation to Rindt's pass.

I remember being slightly surprised by his language, given his Etomian and brewery dynasty upbringing, but later came to be more exposed to such colourful descriptions as I met more of these people I had erroneously thought were quite soft in their language.

I wandered uninterrupted through the paddock. From a few feet away I looked into the small caravan with Rindt and Hill recovering with no words being spoken, but with intense looks written on their faces - I think Chapman was sitting opposite. I knew then that Hill had met his match and that the future was not his - I already knew from watching Rindt during that race. TV cannot show the true ability of such drivers - but watching it live, you can.

I'm rambling a bit, having been to the pub earlier, but hope that this might be of some interest. I think these were better days, but I might be written off as an old fogey. Not that I care.

Far from it- personal anecdotes like this say much more about the drama of a race- terrific stuff.

Presumably neither Spa's viewing point nor the Autosport lap-charter's had vision of the while circuit. There could have been other passing moves out of their sight, adding up to Stewart's "dozens". Or he could have been speaking loosely...

I was in the grandstands near the start and we could just see Copse. There were several overtaking manouvres at Copse where one would overtake the other but by the time they were back at Woodcote the order was as per the previous lap. I would be more inclined to accept Stewart's recollection of "dozens" of overtakes.

I was in the grandstands near the start and we could just see Copse. There were several overtaking manouvres at Copse where one would overtake the other but by the time they were back at Woodcote the order was as per the previous lap. I would be more inclined to accept Stewart's recollection of "dozens" of overtakes.

Tim Murray's account is exactly right. I thought it was only three passes, not the maximum of five that I suggested.

Also I don't think there was any chance that there were passing manouvers out of sight that I missed, because there was a continuous commentary over the tannoys and you knew exactly how close they were all the time. The few laps before Rindt went into the pits were very exciting as Stewart piled on the pressure breaking the lap record several laps in a row and closing right in on Rindt. It seemed to me that he had been biding his time before making his great effort. Up until then there had been a gap of about three seconds.

Wonderful stuff from the two best drivers I ever saw - they were a joy to watch. Stewart was always smooth and clean, the car only sliding slightly even when he was on the limit. Rindt was the opposite - he had no hesitation in flicking the car sideways and holding on the power. And the consequences of a mistake could hardly be contemplated.

I don't think there was any chance that there were passing manouvers out of sight that I missed, because there was a continuous commentary over the tannoys and you knew exactly how close they were all the time.

I didn't think of that

Far from it- personal anecdotes like this say much more about the drama of a race- terrific stuff.

My thoughts exactly.
http://www.youtube.c...e=results_video

Ok, no dozens.

"I'm rambling a bit, having been to the pub earlier, but hope that this might be of some interest. I think these were better days, but I might be written off as an old fogey. Not that I care."

Well, your memories are vivid and you share them nicely.
1969 was 43 years ago... It is always time to record such memories.

Well, like Spa (welcome Spa!) I was there. Here's my lap chart scribbled in the event programme contemporaneously. This is as seen from over the pits but I could hear the commentary well enough, with the French guy screaming about JPB incessantly!









ST

Want another anecdote from that weekend? Not about racing, but what the hell.

That was when music was worth listening to, and Woodstock was happening at that time. More significantly, man made his first landing on the moon the very next day. We were on our way home, and stopped at the last pub in England on the A68 just south of Carter Bar so that we could listen to live transmission of the Apollo 11 landing late on the Sunday night. The TV was on in the bar covering the event. There was a group of people playing at some game in the adjacent room, possibly darts.

Neil and Buzz had separated from the Command Module and were dropping towards the moon's surface. I noticed there was a guy sitting at a table in the bar reading a newspaper. The darts players noisily played on. The tension rose as the intrepid astronauts headed into the unknown. More exciting than Rindt at Monaco 1970, and almost as good as that clandestine video of Pamela Anderson. Alarms went off in the LEM signifying possible doom. A darts players stuck his head around the door to request that the sound be turned down. Put me off darts more than Jocky what's-is-name Fatbelly ever could. The Lunar Module touched down, engine off, silence from the TV for a few seconds. I noticed that the newspaper reader sitting there never even looked up from his paper. He was totally oblivious to what was going on. Man's greatest moment, and the cretin hadn't a clue. No doubt the darts cretins were just as oblivious.

Somewhat amused by the two extremes of humanity experienced in that bar we got back into our Beetle and headed back to the true centre of the Universe, Dundee itself. There were four hours to go before Neil and Buzz went for a walk and a long overdue crap behind a convenient moon rock. Buzz had decided by then that he would take no pictures of Neil on the moon - - the bastard had jumped the queue to be first on the surface.

Now of course I know it didn't actually happen. We saw pre-recorded half-speed takes from the Mohave desert, with additional effects from the best of Hollywood. I wonder - did these guys at the bar know that instinctively, and was I the bigger fool?

Don't suppose I'll ever know.

I was in the grandstands near the start and we could just see Copse. There were several overtaking manouvres at Copse where one would overtake the other but by the time they were back at Woodcote the order was as per the previous lap. I would be more inclined to accept Stewart's recollection of "dozens" of overtakes.

I haven't watched it myself so I won't comment, but there is a full broadcast of the race from French TV floating around that would confirm or dispell the myth. ITV's broadcast that was shown in part on ESPN Classic (see jj2728's link in his post) starts somewhere around halfway so I don't think gives the whole picture of the race. Although the ESPN Classic show was great to watch when I first saw it, (I thought any film or TV footage of the race was long gone) it doesn't really match the stories written about the race that I have read over the years, when referring to Stewart and Rindt's battle.

I've seen the french broadcast, it's pretty much focused on the lead battle throughout. There aren't dozens' of passing manoeuvres, the tv captures the three that the autosport lapchart records. there are a number of 'feints', although not that close, and not at copse. there are a few gaps in the lead battle, most of them during the phase when stewart drops back when they are lapping backmarkers, he is still several seconds behind when we rejoin the lead battle. so its difficult to reconcile the tv evidence with what people seem to remember...

peter

Edited by PeterElleray, 10 December 2012 - 18:01.

On August 30th a memorial for Piers and Roger Williamson will be unveiled in Zandvoort. Facilitated by Frank Williams and local journalist Allard Kalff.

On August 30th a memorial for Piers and Roger Williamson will be unveiled in Zandvoort. Facilitated by Frank Williams and local journalist Allard Kalff.

Jeroen, Are the golf club going to allow it to be around the Hondenvlak / Tunel Ost area or will it be within the confines of the modern circuit ?

I've never seen the point in the latter since I believe a memorial should stand where the person fell ( even though the one at Peronne for Bouriat and Trintignant is very impressive )

Jeroen, Are the golf club going to allow it to be around the Hondenvlak / Tunel Ost area or will it be within the confines of the modern circuit ?

I've never seen the point in the latter since I believe a memorial should stand where the person fell ( even though the one at Peronne for Bouriat and Trintignant is very impressive )

I am with you on that. That part of the circuit always had a different feel about it, and that is where the memorial belongs. The damage was done much earlier of course, when the Zandvoort track was mutilated beyond recognition by shortening it.

However, the memorial will be close to the entrance of the circuit (South) and revealed at 12:30 on Aug 30th.

Shame, still at least there's going to be a memorial. Would be nice if Chris Lambert's name was on it too.

Then, what about Wim Gerlach, Ian Raby, Rob Slotemaker & Hans-Georg Bürger?

To be fair, Gerlach and Slotemaker have corners named after them as memorials.

The Chris Lambert thought was because he, Courage and Williamson were all up and coming Brits who died during a comparatively short period on the same small section of track.

Happily Hants library service have this book, looking forward to it being returned and sent around the county to me.

Now whats a good Revson book?

Here is a fairly lengthy excerpt from "Speed With Style"

http://sportsillustr...89042/index/htm

Unfortunately it doesn't really answer your question...

Edited by GD66, 14 August 2013 - 00:55.

I have the Revson book but I haven't re-read it for some time.

My memory of it would lead me to describe it a not great.....

I have the Revson book but I haven't re-read it for some time.

My memory of it would lead me to describe it a not great.....

I no longer have a copy but remember enjoying it. I think the chapters alternate between those written by Leon Mandel, whose style grated with me, and those by Peter himself which I found very interesting. (Sorry, this is all OT in a Piers Courage thread! I may as well recommend Adam Cooper's book on Piers while I'm here; wonderful from start to finish.)

Edited by john winfield, 15 August 2013 - 11:10.

Yes. That may well be the reason for my comment, although I'd need to read it again to be sure.

I may as well recommend Adam Cooper's book on Piers while I'm here; wonderful from start to finish.)

I received my copy in this mornings post. Looking forward to reading it.

I received my copy in this mornings post. Looking forward to reading it.

I have it but my reading fizzled out...not sure why. Lovely presentation though.

Edited by David Beard, 16 August 2013 - 07:26.

H

I received my copy in this mornings post. Looking forward to reading it.

It's a great read!

Piers died fifty years ago today. RIP.

I've never heard his voice before.

 

He sounds a bit like Charlie Higson's Ralph/Johnny Nicepainter.

I have the Revson book but I haven't re-read it for some time.

My memory of it would lead me to describe it a not great.....

 A very overdue comment - I hugely enjoyed the Revson book , and I was already a fan of Mandel's  work in Car and Driver. . So many books about racing drivers are dull, appallingly written (eg  Johnny Herbert's ramblings or the execrable Pironi book ) and formulaic. But this book was very different , in structure, content and style and cemented my view of Revson being one of the most stylish drivers , on and off track , of his era .

 

And the Courage book might not have had quite the emotional heft of The Lost Generation , but was superb . Another in a long list of drivers where I can recall exactly where I was when I heard of the death (Croft , near the chicane) 

Edited by john aston, 22 June 2020 - 05:51.

The Dutch driver Toine Hezemans was no slouch as a racing driver.  With this in mind I was impressed when, at the 1970 Monza 1,000Kms -  in which he shared a works Alfa T33 with Masten Gregory - he spoke in sober awe of team-mate Courage's pace in a sister car, being co-driven by Andrea de Adamich. Toine and Piers had gone out together in practice to give each other a slipstreaming tow but once Piers moved ahead he just drew away into the distance.

 

Toine remarked "He was taking the Curve Grande flat.  

 

"But then...", he admitted, "He's a Formula 1 driver...".

 

DCN

Piers died fifty years ago today. RIP.

Indeed.

RIP Piers.

 

At the very first 'big' meeting I went to as a child ('65 Silverstone International Trophy), Piers won the Formula 3 race, driving a Charles Lucas Brabham. In a curious, sad coincidence, at the same meeting Bruce McLaren won the sports car race. June 1970 was an awful month.

I have just mentioned this sad anniversary to a old racer friend who responded by recalling that the last time he met and spoke with Piers was in Cheval Place, London - just across the road from the Harrods department store, "...a few weeks before he was killed - he was driving an Isetta bubble car - complete with BRDC badge of course. He was a very nice man...".

 

DCN