Bobby Baird

I've found two photos of Baird's cars in an old schoolboy-era scrapbook. One is the Baird-Gryphon (however spelt) in a hillclimb, and it looks quite handsome, the other the Ferrari 500.
I'll post them if someone can point me to the procedure for doing so on the ANF. Have searched the Help system and can't find it.

Second, acknowledgements to Malcolm. When I made a 'post' a couple of days ago about the 1951 TT I hadn't read his post on p2.

Third, a correction on my description of the Lucas car that Baird raced that day. In autopilot, I typed "6cyl" from what appears to be a copy of the entry list in Moore's booklet. I'm no Ferrari expert, but I think they were all V12s then.

Fourth, what happens to a 166 when it's fitted with a larger engine. Does it remain a 166 or become a 212, 340...?
Rob B

I'll post them if someone can point me to the procedure for doing so on the ANF. Have searched the Help system and can't find it.

Rob, to get them onto the forum you have to upload the photos to a website, either your own (if you have one) or one of the image-hosting sites such as Imageshack. Check out the 'How to post images' sticky thread towards the top of the threads list.

Thanks, Tim. Here are the photos. First, Baird in the Griphon (as named in the caption) in the Spelga Pass hillclimb in the Mourne Mountains in 1952. He set a new record time and presumably won. The photo in Martyn Wainwright's wonderful book was taken in 1955, presumably after more modifications (or repairs) by Griffin. The nose is certainly different.

photo storage
Second, BB in his Ferrari 500 in the Ulster Trophy races at Dundrod in May, 1953. In the final, he finished third behind Hawthorn (Ferrari 500) and Ken Wharton (Cooper-Bristol) and ahead of Peter Whitehead (Cooper-Alta), Louis Chiron (OSCA), Duncan Hamilton (HWM-Alta), etc.

photo sharing sites

Describing the Baird-Griffin in his A-Z, David Hodges didn't mention the 4CL but said the B-G used Maserati parts. It "had a ladder-frame chassis [=4CL] with Simca front suspension and a de Dion rear axle with long fabricated radius arms and Morris torsion bars. The engine, built by Dennis Griffin, was based on a Maserati 4CLT unit with many of its major components being made new, and it drove through a rear-mounted four-speed gearbox."
The chassis frame may have been just about all it inherited from the burnt-out Salvadori 4CL.
Rob B

Edited by robjohn, 17 November 2012 - 02:34.

Thanks, Tim. Here are the photos. First, Baird in the Griphon (as named in the caption) in the Spelga Pass hillclimb in the Mourne Mountains in 1952. He set a new record time and presumably won. The photo in Martyn Wainwright's wonderful book was taken in 1955, presumably after more modifications (or repairs) by Griffin. The nose is certainly different.

photo storage
Second, BB in his Ferrari 500 in the Ulster Trophy races at Dundrod in May, 1953. In the final, he finished third behind Hawthorn (Ferrari 500) and Ken Wharton (Cooper-Bristol) and ahead of Peter Whitehead (Cooper-Alta), Louis Chiron (OSCA), Duncan Hamilton (HWM-Alta), etc.

photo sharing sites

Describing the Baird-Griffin in his A-Z, David Hodges didn't mention the 4CL but said the B-G used Maserati parts. It "had a ladder-frame chassis [=4CL] with Simca front suspension and a de Dion rear axle with long fabricated radius arms and Morris torsion bars. The engine, built by Dennis Griffin, was based on a Maserati 4CLT unit with many of its major components being made new, and it drove through a rear-mounted four-speed gearbox."
The chassis frame may have been just about all it inherited from the burnt-out Salvadori 4CL.
Rob B

Rob
The chassis frame was not inherited from the Bira/Salvadori 4CL but built in Belfast. The two photos are actually the copyright of The Belfast Telegraph.
Regards
SImon

Rob
The chassis frame was not inherited from the Bira/Salvadori 4CL but built in Belfast. The two photos are actually the copyright of The Belfast Telegraph.
Regards
SImon

Thanks, Simon. It seems, then, that the Griffin/Gryphon used little if anything from the oft-mentioned Salvadori 4CL.
On the photos, I acknowledge the Telegraph. I didn't have a record of the source in my old scrapbook, though I admit that was the obvious one. Some of the cuttings are from the gloriously named but now defunct Northern Whig.
Rob B

Edited by robjohn, 18 November 2012 - 01:54.

There used to be a poster on this forum called "straker suire" or similar who claimed to know a lot about Baird.

Simon Thomas used to post here as Squire Straker.

There used to be a poster on this forum called "straker suire" or similar who claimed to know a lot about Baird.

Ted
Glad you said "claimed" to know about Bobbie Baird. SS was a former existance. I note there is no detail yet from Japan of the several Brooklands Rileys Baird owned?
Regards
Simon

According to La Vie de l'Automobile the Baird Griffin (Gryphon etc) was apparently at Retromobile last week.

I would post a scan of the photo/caption if the forum would let me - but (as some of you know) that is currently impossible (with Internet Explorer) and the technical people aren't helping.

 

Anyway the caption says the following:

 

The Ikea F1.

Many questions were asked about this car.

While connoisseurs might have recognised the (uprated) Maserati 4CLT motor, the absence of a badge (or information or a stand name) planted some doubt as to the identity of this car.

It is in fact the only Swedish F1 car ever made.

Built in 1951 from a wrecked 4CL with a 4CLT motor by the Swedish driver Bobby Baird for the world championship.

Due to a change in regulations it was only entered in a few secondary races in 1952.

 

The photo shows that the car has been fitted with a nose that is rather more Maserati than Griffyphon but the rest could be pretty original.

Meanwhile I'm rather surprised to hear about Bobby's dual nationality....

I believe the car in question is shown here:

 

http://www.sportscar...t-and-photos/3/

That is how I recall seeing it at Oulton Park in the early 1980s when owned by Rodney Felton.

The Maserati 4CL/T nose was newly fitted as it was unpainted.

It was somewhat disingenuously entered as a 1938 Maserati 4CL and didn't run at all well. I think Rodney Felton must have decided it wasn't going to work for him as it was for sale with Brian Classic soon after.

There are further pictures on Post-War Classic. Click on 'compressor-engined' for a close-up of the engine:

 

http://www.prewarcar...tml#addcomments

 

Like Peter, I'm somewhat surprised to see Baird described as Swedish!

8 exhaust pipes suggests an 8-cylinder car, maybe an 8CTF from 1938 or so

Only 4 spark plugs so definitely a 4.

Maybe part of the engine upgrades included a one exhaust port per valve head?

Which makes you wonder how much of the engine is still Maserati - it apparently had bronze or brass blocks already which were made in England.

Has anybody seen a 4CLT engine that didn't have eight primary exhausts?

Well, after eleven years on the forum I'm still learning new things!

Roger's right. The four-valve engine had two header pipes per cylinder from its introduction in the 4CL in 1939.
The 1940 8CL and the 1950 8CLT had a splendid array of 16 pipes.

Are there ANY grounds for the Swedish connection? To the car, of course, not Mr Baird.

Rob B

 

Dave Griffin was my Uncle and although he died before I was born, my Dad, Auntie & cousins talk about this car (and Bobby Baird) all the time and I know my Aunt has got a lot of photos somewhere!!  She's got photos too of Bairds Ferrari and she's told me stories of how Dave & Bobby Baird went to the Ferrari factory to collect a car (can't remember what model).  He apparently then sold the car to Jaguar (massive rivals!!) and Ferrari refused to sell him anymore cars.  That's the story anyway!  I live in Oz and my family are in Ireland but I'll see what they can dig up. I've seen photos my Auntie has of Bobby & Mike Hawthorn with a Ferrari too.

Some images of Baird's 340MM at Wicklow 1953. 

https://www.flickr.c...57711423456471/

https://www.flickr.c...57711423456471/

https://www.flickr.c...57711423456471/

I'm looking for help to confirm (or otherwise) that the car in these photographs is one of Bobby Baird's specials. On the rear of the older image is written "The Baird Gryphon". I've read though this thread and pretty sure it is not the Maserati based Baird Gryphon but did more than one car share that name? 

Apparently in the older photograph it was fitted with an Alta engine - but this is anecdotal and I can't confirm this. In the more modern workshop images it has an Alfa twin cam fitted.

 

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

 

Dear all, 

I am the new owner of Bobby Bairds Alta Special, probably based on a modified chassis of the Alta GP2. Entered by Bobby Baird at Crystal Palace in 1953, driven by Torrie Large. 

Does anyone have more information or pictures about the history of this car? 

 

Any help would be much appreciated !

 

All the best from Germany

Luca

Originally posted by Steve L
Hi Chris,

Would it be possible to see some pictures of your R-Type please (especially "as found")? I think these are fantastic little cars and they are finally beginning to show their pace at historic events in the UK.

Is there anywhere I can read the full story of your car please?

It would have to be a good story...

I don't have photos of the car as found, but I have a lot of pics of it after Chris had restored it:



I took pics of the car from all angles etc for a magazine article. I think the article got waylaid before it could be written.