L'affaire Lotus/von Frankenberg

Edited by Arese, 16 November 2011 - 11:20.

Art, the line of text that you quote is written in some German that seems to be quite rare - to say it mildly. I would translate it this way: Both Kurt Ahrens jr and Curt Bari had filed cases against Richard von Frankenberg. Von Frankenberg had to apologize to them and give them financial compensation.

On a sidenote: does anyone check this matter with the biography "Richard von Frankenberg - mit Vollgas durchs Leben", written by his son Donald? I have a copy of the book but didn't look up what is being discussed here. I think I will do so tonight - not expecting that Donald von Frankenberg might not be biased.

First of all, you should bear with Siegfried Strasser, he is Austrian and writes Austrian German, not German German. However, I am not able to comment on his Mitter book as I have decided after having bought "Rennberg" (against the advice of many friends) that I will no longer squander my money on his publications. Internet assessments of his Mitter book do re-comfort me in this view.

Secondly, if you run through the series of period accusations of RvF, you will not find any hard facts. X has overheard a discussion betwen Y and Z that A should have an oversized engine, while B was said to have threatened team mate C to put in a protest ... and so on and so forth ...

@arttidesco - if you are interested and as I take that you do not have problems with reading German please feel free to PM me your mail address and I can send you the full collection of period snippets I had pulled together for a friend when he was working on his Nürburgring book.

Our friend Stefan Örnerdal is, unfortunately, not correct in listing Alan Rees as DNA. Alan had an accident in practice, so he was DNS in my definition. I think we all agree if a driver/car did not show up for an event he had entered, he is DNA (Did Not Appear); if he showed up but did not start e.g. following problems during practice, he is DNS (Did Not Start).

Sorry if this has been mentioned somewhere..
In which issues of Auto Motor und Sport had the articles been in ? I would like to read the originals that did lead to the Monza test.

Ralf

Sorry if this has been mentioned somewhere..
In which issues of Auto Motor und Sport had the articles been in ? I would like to read the originals that did lead to the Monza test.

Ralf

Sorry if this has been mentioned somewhere..
In which issues of Auto Motor und Sport had the articles been in ? I would like to read the originals that did lead to the Monza test.

Ralf

Can I ask what type of magazine was Auto Motor und Sport? Was it's policy to be a "popular" magazine aimed to entertain and on occasions putting the story ahead of absolute proven truth, or was it to be a "journal of record" with the emphasis on total accuracy? Would the readership believe it absolutely or take it with a pinch of salt?

I note that it was a weekly so there would not be time for, shall we say, considered reporting with deadlines to meet. On the other hand, it would be possible to correct errors swiftly.

Edited by D-Type, 23 October 2015 - 20:59.

Edited by arttidesco, 17 November 2011 - 12:21.

Just an additional information. AMS at that time appeared - and still does today - biweekly.

"the biography "Richard von Frankenberg - mit Vollgas durchs Leben", written by his son Donald"

Was this book ever translated into English? Back in The Old Daze I had minor correspondence with RvF, and he owned one of the prototype 911s, hence my interest.

Frank

"the biography "Richard von Frankenberg - mit Vollgas durchs Leben", written by his son Donald"

Was this book ever translated into English?

Many German books on racing seem fit to be translated but remain in German available only. A pity.

Edited by Ralf Pickel, 17 November 2011 - 20:33.

A 22 was priced at GBP 1550 in component form and GBP 1625 "assembled for export only".
From "The Lotus Formula Juniors" by Robinson & Bouckley.

Interestingly - the report in AMS mentiones, that after the bet was won by Lotus, a Sig. Motta from Italy bought the car rightaway on the spot for a cheque of GBP 2000 ! If it was an "experimental" engine with the special head well worth the extra amount ! Just consider the costs for the Richardson head today...;) The bill for the new Richardson engine in my 20, paid by the former owner, was about 12.000 .- a few years ago...

Edited by Ralf Pickel, 18 November 2011 - 08:42.

- especially considering the outputs nowadays of around 130 BHP !

Edited by Ralf Pickel, 18 November 2011 - 09:27.

Just to illustrate what an FJ engine looks like ;)
It only needs a more period rocker cover - there are Cosworth replicas available, but a friend of mine is looking for an original one (he might have one somewhere, but hasn´t found it..), so I am patient !

Edited by bradbury west, 20 November 2011 - 21:58.

Yes, but for the last version of the Cosworth engine before the demise of FJ it was already said to be nearer 110 BHP at 7800 rpm, probably helped by the different head.
Since 9000 rpm are allowed today, that might help to explain where the power increase comes from.
Only a small step, though, considering the giant leap in power outputs in ERAs or Cooper Bristols !

In a dark corner of a probably fallible memory is a recollection that the measured engine size was 1092cc, not the usual overbore to 1098cc. I remember noticing it in the period report, which I cannot find at present. Similarly ISTR that the word was that the engine was a sleeved 109E, which might indicate a longer throw, possibly special, crank. The 1198 engine had a stroke of 58mm against the 105E with 48mm, and the 1340cc 65mm.
I know Duckworth always asserted from the start, qv the Robson Cosworth book, that the 105E was good for 10,0000 rpm with the right valve springs. Might a longer throw crank have given better cylinder filling? So it might have been a development engine. Off at a tangent, the 1500cc 5 bearing unit was not announced until January 1963, but Cosworth might have had access to it . The 1450cc might have been an error for the standard overbore on the 1340cc engine to give 1475cc, which saloon racers like Alan Peer used in period. But then I may be wrong.
Roger Lund

The post-period (1964) records I have report that the last Cosworth FJ engine (the Mark XI 1100cc) had a bore of 85mm and a stroke of 48.4mm and produced 100 bhp at 7800 rpm. The similar Holbay engine put out 106 bhp with power falling off over 8000 rpm and the actual on track performance was judged to be a little over 100 bhp although at the end of the 1962 season Holbay found an additional 2 bhp with some head work.

I suspect there were a few "works" Cosworth FJ engines with the improperly cast non-standard heads that gave much more than the stated 100 bhp and this is possibly what was used in the extra speedy standard capacity Lotus 22.

Just to illustrate what an FJ engine looks like ;)
It only needs a more period rocker cover - there are Cosworth replicas available, but a friend of mine is looking for an original one (he might have one somewhere, but hasn´t found it..), so I am patient !

No! It doesn't look anything like a Formula Junior engine, a proper FJ unit had 2 SUs, had Ryetune written on it and gave about 65 brake, (or else it was a FIAT with Webers and gave something over 80) at least in the real FJ years before the manufacturers started throwing money about and made a nonsense of the whole marvellous idea.

A "modern" Ford FJ engine with a standard rocker cover and black ignition leads ......

Lola?

From memory, stroke had to remain standard... which, of course, didn't preclude the use of the 109E crank.

And I don't understand the comment from Sharman, "...throwing money at it." Perhaps some used SUs when FJr became an International formula, but once that step was taken, surely the stakes got higher in a very natural fashion?

There was, I grant you, a tremendous variety of engines in use at that time and it would have been good for that to continue, but that's simply not the way of motor racing. Everyone wants to win, so everyone buys the engine that gives the most power.

And everyone chases the 'development engine' from the maker with the most power to the finish line.

Yes its a Lola - my Lola Mk2 chassis BRJ1 - here it is unclothed :


With the SU matter, I understand the very first Ford Cosworth FJ engine used in racing was by Graham Warner in his Gemini Mk2 in practice for the 1959 Boxing Day race at Brands Hatch (after dropping a flywheel in practice the Warner engine was swapped to the Alan Stacey Lotus 18 for the race). The Gemini Ford Cosworth engine ran Webers :

However, the Lola FJ cars in the initial part of the 1960 season ran SUs on their Ford engines until after the Ferrari/Stanguellini Fiat engine swap in the Lolas in June 1960 - after they reverted to the Ford engines they adopted the Webers as used on the Fiat engines.

My crib about the manufacturers is that the formula called for engines from a production saloon, how many production saloons had Cossie trick heads and how many were supplied with XSP engines?
A car with which I was intimately associated in 1959 when it had 65 brake was present at a commemoration in 2009, when it had circa 120 and that is supposed to be the same formula?

Edited by hatrat, 20 November 2011 - 18:03.

I'm glad you understood my point, incidentally the pole lap in the Boxing Day race was achieved with approx 65bhp. ....A car with which I was intimately associated in 1959 when it had 65 brake was present at a commemoration in 2009, when it had circa 120 and that is supposed to be the same formula?

I agree throwing money at FJ - as with any "cheap" forum - destroys the concept

However I suspect even a low-budget 105E engine would have outperformed the equivalent Fiat, DKW or Renault