My dad drove a porsche 928 S4 once and we got it up to 150mph on a long country road on the way to sheffield (UK) - days before speed cameras! It didnt feel that fast but the scenery lets u know otherwise! Fantastic car - reserved about the looks though.
993 Porsche best looking 911 ever
Why is the Porsche 928 so unloved?
Started by
stuartbrs
, Dec 05 2003 14:50
99 replies to this topic
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#52
Ruairidh
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Posted 09 December 2003 - 18:54
Whilst this thread may be off topic, it has been fascinating to read. Thanks particularly to Richard and Ian for disproving the notion that 911 owners hadn't also owned 928s and to Richard and Holger for some great background information. Karl, business and family matters have kept me away from diving into the 964/993 sections of PEWE (which is where my real interest lies) but my appetite has now been whetted for the 928 section too.
#53
stuartbrs
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Posted 28 April 2004 - 12:54
Ok, sorry to bring this post up again..
Just a quick progress report on the 928 Ive bought...
In 9 months of continual everyday driving my 928 has had not a single problem so far, apart from tonight... bottomed out over a particularly nasty driveay and seemed to have pushed the exhaust into something which has caused a rather nasty vibration under the car. Not worried though, its just the exhaust rubbing , its going in first thing in the morning up onto the hoist and should be fixed quite quickly.
The more I drive this car the more I am perplexed at how under rated and cheap they are, sure, I got a good one, but still , I payed less than most shopping trolleys and have had no problems whatsoever, well, the injectors need a bit of a clean but the car idles a bit too much for its liking, lots of trips through the city where opening it up is impossible.
And I`m totally entranced by that Porsche V8 wail now, utterly lovely, the thrust is brilliant, the handling poised...the only thing I will say is that my Mini is probably more, um, exhilirating ( not sure if thats the right word, scary maybe? ) but its completely unfair to compare ANY car with a worked Mini. Ive had over 30,000 Km`s of trouble free running in the Porsche, solid, dependable, reliable, enjoyable, poseable driving...
And in a lot of ways the best bit is sometimes just having a beer when I get home and looking at that fabulous shape...mine has aftermarket wheels and it really enhances the look no-end, squat, wide, purposeful and desperately beautiful..I truly think the biggest letdown as far as the shape of the 928 was the wheels and their offset...and I must say, the local 928 community is fantastic, not uppity or , dare I say it, snobby as some of the 911 and Boxster owners can be.
Anyway, I think I may be a 928 owner for some years to come
Just a quick progress report on the 928 Ive bought...
In 9 months of continual everyday driving my 928 has had not a single problem so far, apart from tonight... bottomed out over a particularly nasty driveay and seemed to have pushed the exhaust into something which has caused a rather nasty vibration under the car. Not worried though, its just the exhaust rubbing , its going in first thing in the morning up onto the hoist and should be fixed quite quickly.
The more I drive this car the more I am perplexed at how under rated and cheap they are, sure, I got a good one, but still , I payed less than most shopping trolleys and have had no problems whatsoever, well, the injectors need a bit of a clean but the car idles a bit too much for its liking, lots of trips through the city where opening it up is impossible.
And I`m totally entranced by that Porsche V8 wail now, utterly lovely, the thrust is brilliant, the handling poised...the only thing I will say is that my Mini is probably more, um, exhilirating ( not sure if thats the right word, scary maybe? ) but its completely unfair to compare ANY car with a worked Mini. Ive had over 30,000 Km`s of trouble free running in the Porsche, solid, dependable, reliable, enjoyable, poseable driving...
And in a lot of ways the best bit is sometimes just having a beer when I get home and looking at that fabulous shape...mine has aftermarket wheels and it really enhances the look no-end, squat, wide, purposeful and desperately beautiful..I truly think the biggest letdown as far as the shape of the 928 was the wheels and their offset...and I must say, the local 928 community is fantastic, not uppity or , dare I say it, snobby as some of the 911 and Boxster owners can be.
Anyway, I think I may be a 928 owner for some years to come
#54
Holger Merten
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Posted 28 April 2004 - 13:02
Originally posted by rdrcr
Holger, very interesting to see the Audi 100 and Opel "mule" photos... Thanks for those.
As all of you may be aware, Porsche has a true, 4-place design in the works. This soon to be released car is to compete with the Ferrari 456 series and others of the same caliber. You may also know, Porsche has been toying with the idea for some time...
Ohh, fortunatly stuartbrs brings up this thread again.
@rdrcr, I know the idea of Porsche to built a 4-seater sport car during the years. I have seen the unique 928 4-seater birthday present for Ferry Porsche some years ago in Stuttgart during a Foto session for an German oldtimer magazin.
#55
boekman
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Posted 28 April 2004 - 13:28
Why the 928 is unloved? Well, i think it probably is a very good car (I have never driven one 
), but I would never dream about owning one, even less start to save money to buy one... In my mind (and am probably totaly wrong), images of old men in hats, chasing very young girls pop up... The 914 have at least a cool late sixies/early seventies image (If it is orange or lime green, but aren't all?). And an Audi 100S Coupe seems much more attractive to me, also. But for anyone not caring about their image, the 928 must be a bargin (no offence intended).
), but I would never dream about owning one, even less start to save money to buy one... In my mind (and am probably totaly wrong), images of old men in hats, chasing very young girls pop up... The 914 have at least a cool late sixies/early seventies image (If it is orange or lime green, but aren't all?). And an Audi 100S Coupe seems much more attractive to me, also. But for anyone not caring about their image, the 928 must be a bargin (no offence intended).
#56
zaktoo
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Posted 28 April 2004 - 13:31
Originally posted by stuartbrs
Ok, sorry to bring this post up again..
[snip]
Anyway, I think I may be a 928 owner for some years to come
Please do keep us posted - been eyeing an old 928 a few kms down the road from me. She's been on sale for months now, just waiting for financial (and SWMBO!) details to fall in place.
Ciao
Zak
#57
Holger Merten
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Posted 28 April 2004 - 14:39
Originally posted by boekman
And an Audi 100S Coupe seems much more attractive to me, also.
I like this quote as a lucky owner of one of the last seldom ones in switzerland.
#58
David Birchall
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Posted 28 April 2004 - 21:06
[QUOTE]Originally posted by boekman
Why the 928 is unloved? Well, i think it probably is a very good car (I have never driven one ), but I would never dream about owning one, even less start to save money to [b]buy one... In my mind (and am probably totaly wrong), images of old men in hats, chasing very young girls pop up...
Well, I haven't started to wear a hat yet but....
When I leave this freaking island the one car I am going to buy is a 928 Porsche!
Build quality and pedigree at least as good as AM, tremendous performance, whats to quibble?
At least I might catch one of the "very young girls"
Why the 928 is unloved? Well, i think it probably is a very good car (I have never driven one
), but I would never dream about owning one, even less start to save money to [b]buy one... In my mind (and am probably totaly wrong), images of old men in hats, chasing very young girls pop up... Well, I haven't started to wear a hat yet but....
When I leave this freaking island the one car I am going to buy is a 928 Porsche!
Build quality and pedigree at least as good as AM, tremendous performance, whats to quibble?
At least I might catch one of the "very young girls"
#59
stuartbrs
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Posted 28 April 2004 - 23:45
Ok, had the vibration looked at this morning, Ive broken the baffle inside the muffler, nothing more, have a replacement fitted tomorrow.
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#60
Cal
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Posted 29 April 2004 - 06:00
Thank you very much for bringing this thread up again, I missed it last time. I have been keeping my eye on how cheap these things have become in Australia also. I have always owned cars that most Australians dislike or are afraid of (all Euro cars). Great isn't it, we can drive these exotic machines for the price of a new Pulsar.
Cheers,
Cal.
Cheers,
Cal.
#61
275 GTB-4
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Posted 29 April 2004 - 09:29
Originally posted by Cal
I have always owned cars that most Australians dislike or are afraid of (all Euro cars).
Cal.
Hi Cal, are you sure Aussies really dislike euro?? I would have thought it was more about practicality, euro vroom vrooom but not necessarily well supported on our vast road network. Common garden variety vehicles easier to look after.
I think that Aussies are fairly discerning as borne out by the very healthy euro and classic car scene.
#62
Cal
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Posted 29 April 2004 - 23:29
I agree there is a very strong enthusiast group of European car lovers here. I just think your average Aussie is afraid of owning them and is quick to critise cars from the continent. I hear misconceptions about parts prices ect every day. For example, I currently drive a Peugeot 405 Mi16 as my daily driver. It's done over 200 000kms, I have owned it for 4 years and it has let me down once. Best car I have ever owned and the parts are cheaper than for my MX5 or the Toyota I sold earlier in the year. Go and ask the bloke next to you at work whether he thinks a Peugeot or a Toyota is more reliable and then ask him which he thinks might have cheaper parts. I reckon 99% of the time he will back the Jap car.
Cheers,
Cal.
Cheers,
Cal.
#63
stuartbrs
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Posted 30 April 2004 - 01:18
Couldnt agree more about the price of parts misconceptions we get here in Oz.
A lot of the local product has some pretty extreme parts prices, although I can kind of understand that in a low volume market.
A lot of the local product has some pretty extreme parts prices, although I can kind of understand that in a low volume market.
#64
rdrcr
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Posted 30 April 2004 - 02:50
Holger...Originally posted by Holger Merten
Ohh, fortunatly stuartbrs brings up this thread again.
@rdrcr, I know the idea of Porsche to built a 4-seater sport car during the years. I have seen the unique 928 4-seater birthday present for Ferry Porsche some years ago in Stuttgart during a Foto session for an German oldtimer magazin.
Looking at the two photos, they're of two distinctly different cars. I think the one I posted, the 4-door car was commissioned by Porsche and the company, American Sunroof Company aka ASC owned by Heinz Prechter (Sp?) did the work. Yours I believe, is one done by the factory.
Stuart,
Great to hear your car is holding up... Not a big suprise (to me) actually. As I remember and mentioned, they felt solid as a vault - as if it was crafted from a single piece of steel.
#65
dretceterini
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Posted 30 April 2004 - 19:47
I think a misconception of the 928 still exists. Many see it here in the US as an expensive Camaro or Firebird. Many Porsche "enthusiasts" hate it because it is rather large and front engined. In today's world I think it is a very good car but perhaps a little large in size in relation to the carrying capacity, and a little expensive to properly maintain.
#66
eldougo
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Posted 01 May 2004 - 04:49
Originally posted by Cal
I have always owned cars that most Australians dislike or are afraid of (all Euro cars).
__________________________________
Yes i agree with that statement ,however over the years Euro manfactures always have had a hard time selling there goods here ,for various reasons and back up was the main problem in the 70,s the quality control took it's toll and they have never got back in the Aussie favour and now they are just starting to make a comeback.And in regards to money that few extra $$$ make a differance in buying Euro or Asian cars. 
I have always owned cars that most Australians dislike or are afraid of (all Euro cars).
__________________________________
Yes i agree with that statement ,however over the years Euro manfactures always have had a hard time selling there goods here ,for various reasons and back up was the main problem in the 70,s the quality control took it's toll and they have never got back in the Aussie favour and now they are just starting to make a comeback.And in regards to money that few extra $$$ make a differance in buying Euro or Asian cars.
#67
275 GTB-4
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Posted 01 May 2004 - 05:00
Originally posted by eldougo
Originally posted by Cal
I have always owned cars that most Australians dislike or are afraid of (all Euro cars).
__________________________________
Canberra Times today - one for 18K Aussie pesos.....
#68
Holger Merten
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Posted 01 May 2004 - 09:10
Originally posted by rdrcr
Holger...
Looking at the two photos, they're of two distinctly different cars. I think the one I posted, the 4-door car was commissioned by Porsche and the company, American Sunroof Company aka ASC owned by Heinz Prechter (Sp?) did the work. Yours I believe, is one done by the factory.
Stuart,
Great to hear your car is holding up... Not a big suprise (to me) actually. As I remember and mentioned, they felt solid as a vault - as if it was crafted from a single piece of steel.
Richard, you are completly right, the dark green 928 was a birthday present for Ferry Porsche done by the factory. What I wanted to add is, that the idea of a real fourseater Porsche was often in mind of the marketing department. There are rumours, that Porsche plans a new 911 fourseater/fourdoors sportscoupé in the next years.
#69
stuartbrs
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Posted 23 June 2006 - 16:05
Just an update...
Almost 3 years of 928 ownership... Ive put some brakepads on it..and, well, thats almost it.
Completely reliable.. so much fun, so beautiful
And so much more fun when you can enjoy it with others..
http://www.landsharkoz.com/ this is the Tassie trip we did recently, mine is the blue one in the pics.
The 928 is really one of the great Porsche cars, and yet, unfathomably, one of the most unloved...
Almost 3 years of 928 ownership... Ive put some brakepads on it..and, well, thats almost it.
Completely reliable.. so much fun, so beautiful
And so much more fun when you can enjoy it with others..
http://www.landsharkoz.com/ this is the Tassie trip we did recently, mine is the blue one in the pics.
The 928 is really one of the great Porsche cars, and yet, unfathomably, one of the most unloved...
#70
Frank S
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Posted 23 June 2006 - 16:30
Always (but infrequent) treat, seeing one in traffic.
This was a week or ten days ago, just as the Jacaranda trees were reaching full bloom in Mission Valley just west of San Diego Stadium, site of some nostalgic racing. Click near the upper left-hand corner of the dairy photo to enlarge the joke.
--
Frank S
This was a week or ten days ago, just as the Jacaranda trees were reaching full bloom in Mission Valley just west of San Diego Stadium, site of some nostalgic racing. Click near the upper left-hand corner of the dairy photo to enlarge the joke.
--
Frank S
#71
stuartbrs
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Posted 23 June 2006 - 16:34
lovelly...
and Ive not seen one with chrome rear window surrounds before..american option?
and Ive not seen one with chrome rear window surrounds before..american option?
#72
FLB
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Posted 23 June 2006 - 16:41
This is an mp3 of a supercharged 928. It comes from a tuner specialized in 928s. They recorded their own Porsche. It is absolutely amazing how mean that engine sounds!
ftp://928m:928m@70.226.52.38/928Maudio/928exhaust.wav
ftp://928m:928m@70.226.52.38/928Maudio/928exhaust.wav
#73
David M. Kane
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Posted 23 June 2006 - 17:37
I think Karl got it right, it was just a bit wide of the mark.
My brother sold Porsches in the Washington, D.C. area so I drove a 928 about an hour. It had a great motor. That was long time ago, but I remember it being a lot like a very upmarket Camero...lots of torque, but smoother and much better handling.
Every new Porsche I ever bought was better than the previous one!
I really lust after the current 911S.
I have own new the following:
-911T
-944S
-Boxster
-996 ('98)
-996 ('00)
-Boxster S w/Gembella engine chip and exhaust system 280bhp
Now a mid-engine V8, that would be very interesting!
My brother sold Porsches in the Washington, D.C. area so I drove a 928 about an hour. It had a great motor. That was long time ago, but I remember it being a lot like a very upmarket Camero...lots of torque, but smoother and much better handling.
Every new Porsche I ever bought was better than the previous one!
I really lust after the current 911S.
I have own new the following:
-911T
-944S
-Boxster
-996 ('98)
-996 ('00)
-Boxster S w/Gembella engine chip and exhaust system 280bhp
Now a mid-engine V8, that would be very interesting!
#74
MarkWill
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Posted 23 June 2006 - 19:06
I love this thread - the 928 remains that elusive dream for me (I live in Montreal and, if anyone in Quebec or Canada has a decent S4 for sale - I`m interested). The 944 turbo I own continues to amaze - 145K Km and no major problems except for a heavy clutch - and I guess that I am a Porsche convert for life, if only because they all seem to be bullet-proof.
I`m also delighted to re-acquant myself with Hoger Merten who has posted some brilliant pics over the years. Living in North america, I doubt that I will ever see an Aui 100 Coupé again, but I am glad there are people out there taking care of them because they seem to have been important cars in the dvelopment of Porsches in the 70's and 80's.
Anyone have any other stories about owning a 928 (the bad ones and the good ones)?
I`m also delighted to re-acquant myself with Hoger Merten who has posted some brilliant pics over the years. Living in North america, I doubt that I will ever see an Aui 100 Coupé again, but I am glad there are people out there taking care of them because they seem to have been important cars in the dvelopment of Porsches in the 70's and 80's.
Anyone have any other stories about owning a 928 (the bad ones and the good ones)?
#75
FLB
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Posted 23 June 2006 - 19:26
You never know, I saw a Citroën CX at Tremblant three weeks ago (it wasn't sold here)!Originally posted by MarkWill
Living in North america, I doubt that I will ever see an Aui 100 Coupé again, but I am glad there are people out there taking care of them because they seem to have been important cars in the dvelopment of Porsches in the 70's and 80's.
#76
MarkWill
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Posted 23 June 2006 - 19:46
A guy I work with has several Citroens (but not a CX). If you want to see more, there is the Vintage Car Club of Canada (VCCC) whose owners seem to be rather attached to european cars. Did you go to the Ferrari weekend?
#77
David M. Kane
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Posted 23 June 2006 - 21:25
Was the CX the one with the Maserati motor? I had a great fun run up to Summit Point Raceway in the '70s with my 911T. Those babies would scoot!
#78
Antoine Pilette
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Posted 23 June 2006 - 21:35
The Maserati powered Citron is the SM.
I'm planning to import so french cars here (Atlanta), first an AX GTi
I'm planning to import so french cars here (Atlanta), first an AX GTi
#79
dbw
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Posted 24 June 2006 - 00:34
it's rather funny....sittiing on the passenger seat of my front engine , superbly suspended six year old honda s2000 is a brosure for a brand new state of the art mid engined porsche coupe....with a macphereson strut front end!!!! 
go figure.
go figure.
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#80
FLB
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Posted 24 June 2006 - 13:12
No I didn't, unfortunately. I had family obligations.Originally posted by MarkWill
Did you go to the Ferrari weekend?
#81
David M. Kane
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Posted 24 June 2006 - 13:40
I just check the engine specs on the 928, same as the Camaro and the Mustang of the '70s.
#82
stevewf1
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Posted 24 June 2006 - 16:39
Way back in the '70s, Road & Track Magazine used to do these "long-term ownership" polls where owners of specific cars would tell thier stories about thier car.
The actual name of these articles escapes me, but in these polls, there was a category called "Would you buy another?". The Porsche 911 had the highest percentage ever recorded - 95% of Porsche 911 owners would buy another Porsche 911. No other car brand or make ever scored that high.
So it would appear that there was fierce loyalty among 911 owners, and it would make sense that something as different as the 928 would not be accepted by the "Porsche loyal" as being a true Porsche.
The actual name of these articles escapes me, but in these polls, there was a category called "Would you buy another?". The Porsche 911 had the highest percentage ever recorded - 95% of Porsche 911 owners would buy another Porsche 911. No other car brand or make ever scored that high.
So it would appear that there was fierce loyalty among 911 owners, and it would make sense that something as different as the 928 would not be accepted by the "Porsche loyal" as being a true Porsche.
#83
David Birchall
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Posted 24 June 2006 - 17:03
[QUOTE]Originally posted by David Birchall
[QUOTE]Originally posted by boekman
Why the 928 is unloved? Well, i think it probably is a very good car (I have never driven one ), but I would never dream about owning one, even less start to save money to [b]buy one... In my mind (and am probably totaly wrong), images of old men in hats, chasing very young girls pop up...
Well, I haven't started to wear a hat yet but....
When I leave this freaking island the one car I am going to buy is a 928 Porsche!
Build quality and pedigree at least as good as AM, tremendous performance, whats to quibble?
At least I might catch one of the "very young girls" [/QUOTE]
Funny this thread should be resurected. I just sold The Bellhouse Inn, my residence/business/lifestyle/boat anchor two weeks ago and started looking on ebay at Porsche 928s for sale. They are still a great deal and I think I will continue looking for one. There is a '90 GT for sale in the Vancouver newspapers for a very reasonable price if the gentleman in Quebec is still interested.
David B
[QUOTE]Originally posted by boekman
Why the 928 is unloved? Well, i think it probably is a very good car (I have never driven one
), but I would never dream about owning one, even less start to save money to [b]buy one... In my mind (and am probably totaly wrong), images of old men in hats, chasing very young girls pop up... Well, I haven't started to wear a hat yet but....
When I leave this freaking island the one car I am going to buy is a 928 Porsche!
Build quality and pedigree at least as good as AM, tremendous performance, whats to quibble?
At least I might catch one of the "very young girls"
[/QUOTE]Funny this thread should be resurected. I just sold The Bellhouse Inn, my residence/business/lifestyle/boat anchor two weeks ago and started looking on ebay at Porsche 928s for sale. They are still a great deal and I think I will continue looking for one. There is a '90 GT for sale in the Vancouver newspapers for a very reasonable price if the gentleman in Quebec is still interested.
David B
#84
raceannouncer2003
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Posted 24 June 2006 - 18:40
Off topic, of course, but will we be seeing more of you (perhaps with helmet?) at historic races, now that you no longer have the "boat anchor?" e.g. Seattle Historics next weekend, etc?
Vince Howlett, Victoria, B.C., Canada
Vince Howlett, Victoria, B.C., Canada
#85
tam999
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Posted 24 June 2006 - 18:47
I owned a 1984 928S from 1997 through 1999. When I decided on a 928 I looked at 15 before I settled on the near-pristine, low-mileage (67,000) example that I bought. I also enlisted the services of a "928 guru" who couldn't believe the car I found and exclaimed "Where did you ever find it? (He'd previously convinced me to abandon a super-quick "Euro" model with gray-market title woes and a questionable maintenance history.)
To see my car scan down past the Daimler SP250 material:
http://www.tamsoldra...rs.html#My Cars
I sold it when expensive scheduled maintenance was imminent to a PCA member who loved the car and didn't mind paying for the maintenance (timing belt, etc.)
I think the 1984 model was a good one as it was the first year of the superior 4-speed automatic and the last year of the simpler & more reliable (and plenty powerful!) SOHC 4.7 liter motor. (A manual shift wasn't for me considering that much of my driving was in L.A. traffic.)
The coming of the internet changed 928 ownership fundamentally. No longer were 928 owners subject to Porsche dealers unwilling or unable to properly service their cars and who wanted to channel 928 owners into new 911s.
Previously obscure parts became easily & openly available through the "Big Three" suppliers and mechanical fixes well within reach of competent home mechanics could be downloaded and useful advice obtained. (The factory manuals ran to nine volumes and procedures often began with "remove engine" and continued with "use special tool 928-033-61C" or somesuch. You didn't have to take the engine out to do many things and it was easy to work around the need for the expensive one-use tools.)
The biggest problem with the 928 and the origin of its bad reputation was Porsche's use of then new drive-belt technology to shorten the engine by getting all rotating engine components to turn in one plane. This 7-foot long monster turned both cams (four in the later models) and the oil pump and the water pump. Oil pump or water pump failure could jam the belt and destroy the "interference" engine. Belt adjustment at scheduled mileage was obviously critical as a new unit would stretch with use.
Lesser known failure points were the engine thrust bearing (in auto trans. cars only) and a strange inability of the engine to get oil to one cylinder's (I think #3) rod bearing under competition conditions.
My car ran flawlessly for my two years of ownership and I still miss it!
Tam McPartland
To see my car scan down past the Daimler SP250 material:
http://www.tamsoldra...rs.html#My Cars
I sold it when expensive scheduled maintenance was imminent to a PCA member who loved the car and didn't mind paying for the maintenance (timing belt, etc.)
I think the 1984 model was a good one as it was the first year of the superior 4-speed automatic and the last year of the simpler & more reliable (and plenty powerful!) SOHC 4.7 liter motor. (A manual shift wasn't for me considering that much of my driving was in L.A. traffic.)
The coming of the internet changed 928 ownership fundamentally. No longer were 928 owners subject to Porsche dealers unwilling or unable to properly service their cars and who wanted to channel 928 owners into new 911s.
Previously obscure parts became easily & openly available through the "Big Three" suppliers and mechanical fixes well within reach of competent home mechanics could be downloaded and useful advice obtained. (The factory manuals ran to nine volumes and procedures often began with "remove engine" and continued with "use special tool 928-033-61C" or somesuch. You didn't have to take the engine out to do many things and it was easy to work around the need for the expensive one-use tools.)
The biggest problem with the 928 and the origin of its bad reputation was Porsche's use of then new drive-belt technology to shorten the engine by getting all rotating engine components to turn in one plane. This 7-foot long monster turned both cams (four in the later models) and the oil pump and the water pump. Oil pump or water pump failure could jam the belt and destroy the "interference" engine. Belt adjustment at scheduled mileage was obviously critical as a new unit would stretch with use.
Lesser known failure points were the engine thrust bearing (in auto trans. cars only) and a strange inability of the engine to get oil to one cylinder's (I think #3) rod bearing under competition conditions.
My car ran flawlessly for my two years of ownership and I still miss it!
Tam McPartland
#86
David Birchall
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Posted 24 June 2006 - 19:51
Originally posted by raceannouncer2003
Off topic, of course, but will we be seeing more of you (perhaps with helmet?) at historic races, now that you no longer have the "boat anchor?" e.g. Seattle Historics next weekend, etc?
Vince Howlett, Victoria, B.C., Canada
Well Vince, maybe not with helmet initially; the Datsun 240Z rally car is still in the condition it finished the Panama/Alaska Rally and the DB2 is waiting for a new, trick, expensive racing crank to arrive from England-hopefully DKE are machining it as I write.
David B
#87
Ralliart
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- 669 posts
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Posted 25 June 2006 - 19:28
Sorry if it's been mentioned, but this is what Tobias Aichele had to say about the 928, his subject's (Huschke von Hanstein) retirement vehicle:
"In its first year, still powered by a 240 hp, 4.5 liter engine, the imposing 2+2 was voted "Car of the Year, 1978". In the mid-1990s, while the plant was building only two of the large coupes per day, the engine of the final variant, the GTS, had grown to 5.4 liters and 350 hp...(the 928) offers abundant space, a roomy trunk as well as a cultivated, supremely engine with massive torque...it is a car for relaxed cruising that is equally capable of impressive full-throttle performance...Porsche built only 61,000 examples of its luxury GT. At the end of the 20th century, astute collectors regard the 928 as a well-kept secret."
"In its first year, still powered by a 240 hp, 4.5 liter engine, the imposing 2+2 was voted "Car of the Year, 1978". In the mid-1990s, while the plant was building only two of the large coupes per day, the engine of the final variant, the GTS, had grown to 5.4 liters and 350 hp...(the 928) offers abundant space, a roomy trunk as well as a cultivated, supremely engine with massive torque...it is a car for relaxed cruising that is equally capable of impressive full-throttle performance...Porsche built only 61,000 examples of its luxury GT. At the end of the 20th century, astute collectors regard the 928 as a well-kept secret."
#88
Huw Jadvantich
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- 602 posts
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Posted 26 June 2006 - 09:10
Probably late in on this, but I've driven lots of 928s, 911s and 944s, as well as their opposition.
To me it was obvious why the 928 failed from my first drive back in the mid eighties, and it was nothing to do with costs.
The 911 and 944 were lightweight (ish) sports cars with sports car Ride and Handling. They were good and they sold well.
The 928 was a Heavy Grand Touring Car with sports car ride and handling. People who buy grand touring cars new, generally, dont want sports car ride and wouldn't know how to use sports car handling.
The 928 through out its life was an excellent heavy sports car, with a hard ride and noisy tyres, for which at the time there was not a great demand.
Now low profile tyres have become de rigeur GT owners dont have any choice!
To me it was obvious why the 928 failed from my first drive back in the mid eighties, and it was nothing to do with costs.
The 911 and 944 were lightweight (ish) sports cars with sports car Ride and Handling. They were good and they sold well.
The 928 was a Heavy Grand Touring Car with sports car ride and handling. People who buy grand touring cars new, generally, dont want sports car ride and wouldn't know how to use sports car handling.
The 928 through out its life was an excellent heavy sports car, with a hard ride and noisy tyres, for which at the time there was not a great demand.
Now low profile tyres have become de rigeur GT owners dont have any choice!
#89
stuartbrs
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- 801 posts
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Posted 22 June 2013 - 09:37
Well, Ive owned my car for ten years now... I was going to keep it for two! In that time the servicing costs have been, enlightening... I had the engine out a couple of years ago as the head gaskets went bad due to non use for 18 months ( I had a work car ) and old coolant, Ive done two timing belt changes myself, the second just this weekend, Ive put recovered leather seats in it, had it resprayed, replaced a broken exhaust system for a stainless one, um, had the spiler repaired 3 times and finally just bought a new one.. and I have to say.. I just don't want to sell this car, ever... Its worked out to around 1k a year, compared to a new car, that's pretty dam good value for something as good as this.
Oh, and heres one from January, before I got my new driveway... looking back to my Group Nc 911 project...
Oh, and heres one from January, before I got my new driveway... looking back to my Group Nc 911 project...
Edited by stuartbrs, 22 June 2013 - 09:40.
#90
David Birchall
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- 3,291 posts
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Posted 22 June 2013 - 15:06
I never did buy a 928 (If you scroll back up you will see I was seriously considering it). I bought a 911 instead. And fell in love with the Porsche 911! I test drove a couple of 928s and they never really turned me on--the 911 however was a revelation. Superb handling , steering and brakes. As an 82 it was easy to work on and very reliable. I have sold it now but intend getting an earlier "Long hood" car soon.
#91
kayemod
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- 9,590 posts
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Posted 22 June 2013 - 19:58
I never did buy a 928 (If you scroll back up you will see I was seriously considering it). I bought a 911 instead. And fell in love with the Porsche 911! I test drove a couple of 928s and they never really turned me on--the 911 however was a revelation.
And there we have the answer I think, it's not that the 928 is unloved, rather that other Porsches, the 911 especially are loved far more. This tale doesn't prove anything really, but several years ago a friend bought a "cheap" 928, a bit run-down, but "It doesn't need a lot spending on it to turn it into a really good car". The costs turned out to be never-ending, he parted with it for less than the original purchase price, after keeping it going in the first year cost him double what he'd spent initially. I've heard similar stories about other Porsches of course, but the most frightening ones always seem to concern 928s, they do have a bit of a reputation, some good but plenty rather bad.
#92
Lee Nicolle
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- 11,069 posts
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Posted 22 June 2013 - 21:45
Having briefly driven both and having been in the motortrade for 40 years my thoughts are; I have no ambition to own either but one is a flawed in design motorcar and one is flawed in execution. The 911 is a bloody great pendulum that Porsche engineers have spent decades to make work well, but really is VW beetle in disguise,,, a very good disguise these days. But they are noisy and to me uninspiring as a road car.
The 928 is a far better design, front engines with transaxle with a decent size engine. Far better in weight distribution.Though that is high tech and supposedly unreliable, as is the clutch. It is far quieter inside, more comfortable and drives and rides a lot nicer than the 911. The styling while not 'me' is a lot more modern and sporty than a pregnant pasty! The v8 engine though is not that powerfull, a lot are quite smokey and most have a lot of piston noise when cold, in part because of the all alloy engine. I do feel that a 928 with money spent would be a faster, better car than a 911 apart from the turbos, though they are really hatefull cars.
I know thew Porker people out there are gioing to scream and bitch, BUT you love what could only be ever called a motoring orphan , in fact dinosaur. A 50s design still being sold today. GM, Bring back the Corvair!!
The 928 is a far better design, front engines with transaxle with a decent size engine. Far better in weight distribution.Though that is high tech and supposedly unreliable, as is the clutch. It is far quieter inside, more comfortable and drives and rides a lot nicer than the 911. The styling while not 'me' is a lot more modern and sporty than a pregnant pasty! The v8 engine though is not that powerfull, a lot are quite smokey and most have a lot of piston noise when cold, in part because of the all alloy engine. I do feel that a 928 with money spent would be a faster, better car than a 911 apart from the turbos, though they are really hatefull cars.
I know thew Porker people out there are gioing to scream and bitch, BUT you love what could only be ever called a motoring orphan , in fact dinosaur. A 50s design still being sold today. GM, Bring back the Corvair!!
#93
kayemod
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Posted 22 June 2013 - 21:53
A 50s design still being sold today. GM, Bring back the Corvair!!
Hopeful sentiments for all fans of the original Skoda Octavia, Estelle and Rapid.
#94
GMACKIE
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Posted 22 June 2013 - 21:56
The 928, IMHO, is a wonderful piece of engineering, but are they too "normal' for Porsche buyers ? On a few occasions, for reasons as per previous posts, I have gone close to buying a 928.
My Porsches have the engines where the good Dr. intended them to be.
My Porsches have the engines where the good Dr. intended them to be.
#95
E1pix
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- 23,472 posts
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Posted 22 June 2013 - 22:09
Did a long road trip once in a friend's '78.
Loved the car in every way, and I got her up to 163 (mph) in Nevada. It was planted like a ground effects car.
Loved the car in every way, and I got her up to 163 (mph) in Nevada. It was planted like a ground effects car.
#96
DennisTobin
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- 57 posts
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Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:22
Apart from a 356 Speedster I have never had a need for a Porsche in my life. Nothing against them, I have spent many hours working on the bodywork of various 911`s and a 356. I guess I prefer to be pulled rather than pushed. However, I great mate of ours had a 928S Manual for many years in his over-crowded garage. There would be few cars of interested that this man had not owned and in most cases raced.The 928, IMHO, is a wonderful piece of engineering, but are they too "normal' for Porsche buyers ? On a few occasions, for reasons as per previous posts, I have gone close to buying a 928.
My Porsches have the engines where the good Dr. intended them to be.
When the 928S offered for sale the owner stated it was one of the greatest cars he had owned (he was in his eighties when he placed it on the market), the only trouble he had when he locked the keys in it------ without doing damage it was a "head banging" excersise to retreave the damn keys.
Anyway, i think 928 fans will like this story i found years ago.
In 1982 a Porcshe 928s was taken from the Stuttgart assembly line and along with two employees and journalist Pete Lovett proceeded to the Fiat Nardo test track where it ciculated for 24 hours covering 6,033 kilometre`s, wihich with fuel stops gave a average speed of 156mph.
Tthats right, 156mph for 24hours in 1982, in a unmodified car------impressive!
cheers DT
#97
john aston
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Posted 23 June 2013 - 06:25
The 928 was beyond cool when it was announced and never looked and sounded less than impressive. But although the odd one raced the 911's competition pedigree is literally second to none. The 911 also sounds just sublime- the V8 in the 928 does make a nice burble, but nothing to set it apart from countless other V8s- from Aston Martin, AMG and across the pond. THe word icon is so overused but the 911 ticks every box. Only driven one and it did not disappoint.Current versions are stunningly quick but also are all lardarses- give me the narrower bodied iterations- and does anything look better than a 70s RSR ?Apart from the first 911S...
#98
stuartbrs
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- 801 posts
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Posted 23 June 2013 - 10:10
I think there are a few reasons.. the first one was some of the horrific colours they were made in, browns and dark bland burgundy`s, and the boring wheels never really helped. A 928 in a good colour with nice wheels is a thing of beauty. Oddly, to me, they always look much better in the flesh than in photographs, theres some beautiful shapes in there that the camera fails to capture. And they are very much GT cars, on a long run they are fantastic machines.
One of the more recent problems with them is that they have been cheap for sometime now... so you get people buying 80`s exotic cars cheaply and baulking at the high cost of some of the maintenance and selling them on before that maintenance has been done. If you get a good one though, they give you very little grief.
The electrical system is another area that cops some unwarranted grief, it is an excellent system, but has been butchered far too many times with 80`s alarms and horrible stereo installs.
Its true, that for the size the V8 isn't spectacularly powerful, especially the early 4.5ltr cars, but for me, the 4.7S has got plenty of grunt thankyou.
Unfortunately, as Porsche increased the power, so to did the weight in this luxury GT car... electric everything, 8 way seats, bigger sound system and it started to get a bit heavy.
These cars have been around for sometime now, so there are no mystery problems with them anymore. There are some excellent parts suppliers out there for them that are still very passionate about these vehicles.
One of the more recent problems with them is that they have been cheap for sometime now... so you get people buying 80`s exotic cars cheaply and baulking at the high cost of some of the maintenance and selling them on before that maintenance has been done. If you get a good one though, they give you very little grief.
The electrical system is another area that cops some unwarranted grief, it is an excellent system, but has been butchered far too many times with 80`s alarms and horrible stereo installs.
Its true, that for the size the V8 isn't spectacularly powerful, especially the early 4.5ltr cars, but for me, the 4.7S has got plenty of grunt thankyou.
Unfortunately, as Porsche increased the power, so to did the weight in this luxury GT car... electric everything, 8 way seats, bigger sound system and it started to get a bit heavy.
These cars have been around for sometime now, so there are no mystery problems with them anymore. There are some excellent parts suppliers out there for them that are still very passionate about these vehicles.
#99
hogstar
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- 557 posts
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Posted 23 June 2013 - 12:16
The 928 was ahead of its time and many Porsche owners too! I don't think it aged particularly well, though the last of the line GTS are most certainly worth a go - if you're brave enough.
The costs vs price went against the 928 - they ended up being very expensive and there were arguably much better options in the Porsche range. I had a 944S2 Cabrio, which is a very good, lovely balanced if ridiculously over engineered car, but had to get rid of it as some parts were getting too expensive and I should imagine the 928 was even worse in that respect as it had less VW parts bin options.
While front engined Porsches didn't go down well with the faithful, I wouldn't go so far as the 928 is unloved, it's more a case of being misunderstood.
The most unloved Porsche is certainly the 996 variant of the 911. I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole and I bought the sweetest, purest thing that Porsche make, which is the Cayman S.
The costs vs price went against the 928 - they ended up being very expensive and there were arguably much better options in the Porsche range. I had a 944S2 Cabrio, which is a very good, lovely balanced if ridiculously over engineered car, but had to get rid of it as some parts were getting too expensive and I should imagine the 928 was even worse in that respect as it had less VW parts bin options.
While front engined Porsches didn't go down well with the faithful, I wouldn't go so far as the 928 is unloved, it's more a case of being misunderstood.
The most unloved Porsche is certainly the 996 variant of the 911. I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole and I bought the sweetest, purest thing that Porsche make, which is the Cayman S.
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#100
stiffy
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- 40 posts
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Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:40
Although it was designed as a replacement for the 911 in reality it suited a totally different market.Is it better? No. Is it worse? No.Its like comparing a Lotus 7 with an Espirit/Eclat/Elite.If you want to drive 2000klm to the South of France take a 928,if you want to do Alpine passes take a 911.A good 928 is still a wonderful GT,I was lucky and found one that still has not done 25k,its superb.But for exhilarating B road driving I take my Lotus Europa.
