Experiments: weird, bizarre, useless, etc...

Brabham BT44B

This was an experiment during the practice sessions of the Grand Prix of France 1975. I don't know the function of this bizarre feature, it might be an experiment for if it would rain? Because often visibility is zero when there is water on the track because water gets in the air because of the tyres? Just a wild guess here. In the book where I got it from, there is no information given (Grand Prix 1975 by Ulrich Schwab).

Originally posted by aerogi
Brabham BT44B

This was an experiment during the practice sessions of the Grand Prix of France 1975. I don't know the function of this bizarre feature, it might be an experiment for if it would rain? Because often visibility is zero when there is water on the track because water gets in the air because of the tyres? Just a wild guess here. In the book where I got it from, there is no information given (Grand Prix 1975 by Ulrich Schwab).

Or, could it be a device to reduce drag created from the rolling tyres rather than to create less water spray?

1.974, the Elf2 Formula 2. No comment !!!


© DPPI




Rafa

I don't get this Elf way of thinking... I understand airflow might be cleaner back there, but with leverage this big it must have severely compromized front end grip.

Looks almost like a UK hill climber ?

And the go-kart sized AVS Shadow (the very first one, with 10" wheels and the radiators on either side of the rear wheels - and a 7 litre V8 engine). I think Follmer and later Elford must have been the bravest of brave drivers to drive this mini monster.

Originally posted by bertocchi
SomeBODYs gotta post a pic of the Chaparral 2H with the...'Surtees Wing.'
Dear Lord.

1.969, the Chaparral 2H at Laguna Seca
© Unknown





1.969, the first AVS-Shadow
(1969 Road&Track magazine cover)




1.969, the first test.
(1969 Autosprint magazine)


Rafa

Originally posted by Reyna




1.969, the first AVS-Shadow
(1969 Road&Track magazine cover)


Rafa

Heyyy, the BFG9000 Mega Laser Blaster on top is cool....

Why it never dawned on me one could just disintegrate opponents instead of overtaking them...

Since we've been talking Pininfarina, maybe this (sob) neglected thread about Pinifarina ZAZ might be of interest.

http://forums.atlasf...zaz pininfarina

Now, I wonder... were the Sigma or the ZAZ ever tested on a circuit ?

Originally posted by p de vos
And the go-kart sized AVS Shadow (the very first one, with 10" wheels and the radiators on either side of the rear wheels - and a 7 litre V8 engine). I think Follmer and later Elford must have been the bravest of brave drivers to drive this mini monster.

Is that bearded giant Mr. Don Nichols?

I recall George Follmer driving the red AVS-Shadow in 1969 (1970?) Can-Am, but Vic Elford had a black one in 1970 Can-Am... it was black, small, with a big wing and a big logo SHADOW...

Originally posted by Nanni Dietrich
I recall George Follmer driving the red AVS-Shadow in 1969 (1970?) Can-Am, but Vic Elford had a black one in 1970 Can-Am... it was black, small, with a big wing and a big logo SHADOW...

This one ?


© Unknown



Rafa

Originally posted by Reyna

This one ?

[

Please, someone tell me the thing was overheating, with radiators in that position, just aft the rear tyres. Or I'll have to go back learning aero from scratch.

Originally posted by Reyna

This one ?



Rafa

Interesting for my favourite multi-purpose driver
http://forums.atlasf...&threadid=66137




Originally posted by p de vos
And the go-kart sized AVS Shadow (the very first one, with 10" wheels and the radiators on either side of the rear wheels - and a 7 litre V8 engine). I think Follmer and later Elford must have been the bravest of brave drivers to drive this mini monster.

YES!

Can-Am 1970, Mid-Ohio circuit: Vic Elford started 7. with this monster, and retired for unbalanced wheel His best time in practice was 1'31,4 and Denny in pole-position 1'27,6 not so far I think... for this incredible monster!!!

What a shame that the original Shadow failed to live up to expectations. It was, IMO, simply brilliant but something was lost in the translation, I guess.

For the 1970 CanAm season opener at Mosport, my buddy, Nick, and I went up to the track every day from the Monday prior in hopes of seeing some pre-race testing and were especially looking forward to seeing the new Shadow. Day after day, baking in the hot sun and nothing showed. Finally for official practice and qualifying, the Shadow did appear but we were heartilly disppointed with the debut appearance as it was now sporting all manner of bits sticking out into the airstream and only faintly resembling the original pix in Road & Track. But it was facsinating nonetheless.

In reply to Reyna's post, here's a few more of the AVS-Shadow:

The first picture shows George Follmer at Saint-Jovite.
The second picture shows a slightly changed car (like in Reyna's post), this time with Vic Elford at the wheel at Mid-Ohio.

Source and credits: L'année automobile 1970-1971 (French annual)





And during the 1970 season, there was another strange appearance: the famous Chaparral 2 J, which used the same technique as the later Brabham fan car of 1978...

The Chaparral 2 J was a very famous CanAm racing car. It was the revelation of the race at Watkins Glen, raced by J. Stewart! It recorded the fastest lap until he had to withdraw from the race because of brake problems.

The first 3 pictures are from the race at Watkins Glen. The fourth is taken from Road Atlanta.

Source and credits: L'année automobile 1970-1971 (French annual)









Enjoy!

Here are a couple of different rear wing configurations used by Ferrari in practice at Long Beach in 1979.

Originally posted by Wolf
Marcel, I think this is what You're thinking of:

With excuses for my slow reaction, Wolf, but this was exactly what I was thinking of. Although I wasn't aware of the fact that the Nardi is apparently still around and running!
The only picture I have is from the paddock at Le Mans in '55, where they made a hole between the booms, which was supposed to be the obligatory 'passenger space' !

Debating whether to post here or in this thread...

The unidentified car in Number Four is a Gemini, one of only two built.


It was most advanced for its (1961 or '62) time, with inboard disc brakes front and rear. The weird, bizarre, useless part is the exaggerated nostril-effect intakes, which did not work, as somehow the cooling air just didn't enter and do its job.

A little later this car ran at Willow Springs, with a standup-tall wing. The wing was self-trimming at speed, with valve springs compressed by aerodynamic loads. The wing and other innovations were the work of Fred Puhn, whose monocoque wheels first appeared (maybe) on this car.

The driver is Chuck McCarty, the pictures at Pomona (Los Angeles County Fairground).


Frank S

The " Carcará" one brazilian project.


one more brazilian

Other images of the very interesting "Carcará" can be found in this page: http://www.obvio.ind.....bsoluto !.htm

Thanks for the memories Felipe!

Originally posted by Nanni Dietrich


They invented the half-slick tyres...


Indy 500 is an incredible source of ideas.
I recall cars built only for left-bend, with different tyres and suspensions on right and left.

Wow!!! My favorite race car of my youth. The car I modeled my Pinewood Derby car after in Cub Scouts.

I know some modern 6 wheels racing cars like Tyrrell, March and Williams, but I never heard (before yesterday) about Rondeau M579 (click to enlarge) :



This pic came from Autosprint #4/1978 (page 40), dated January 1978. It says that this is an advanced project, supposed to be ready to race at Le Mans on following year, 1979.
It should have had Cosworth DFX Turbo engine (2142 cc).
Do anybody know anything more about?

Ciao,
Guido

(I post this pic also on 6 wheel f1 car, 2 front 4 at the rear thread)

Another F.1 bizarre car: Ferrari 126 C2 used at Long Beach 1982 by Gilles Villeneuve.

Unfortunately I have no photos, I could find only a 1:43 model but it's god enough to understand what I'm talking about:


(from Alpimodel official website)

Villeneuve arrived 3rd, but he was disqualified as this strange rear wing was considered illegal.

Ciao,
Guido

Originally posted by Paolo


About the front wing on the 1978 Wildcat of Gordon Johncock, as posted by Gigleux, it should be said that this kind of arrangement has often been tried on full width nosed single seaters, and with sports cars.

Of all places, Indy is the last where I would have thought of seeing it. Was it just an experiment, or did it actually race ?

Jockcock was leading comfortably in 77 with this car is STP livery, lost the motor around lap 180. Finished 3rd in 78 with the pictured car.

Originally posted by Manson


Jockcock was leading comfortably in 77 with this car is STP livery, lost the motor around lap 180. Finished 3rd in 78 with the pictured car.

Never say never...
Live and learn..

Etc.

Originally posted by gdecarli
Another F.1 bizarre car: Ferrari 126 C2 used at Long Beach 1982 by Gilles Villeneuve.

Unfortunately I have no photos, I could find only a 1:43 model but it's god enough to understand what I'm talking about:


(from Alpimodel official website)

Villeneuve arrived 3rd, but he was disqualified as this strange rear wing was considered illegal.

Ciao,
Guido

Discussed also in Tech forum :

http://forums.atlasf...&highlight=wing

Here are two more oddities, but only project:

Piero Taruffi's racing car:
http://l2.espacenet.... 2608264A1 I

Aerodynamic wing for racing car by Robert D. Green:
http://l2.espacenet.... 3512825A1 I

Originally posted by gdecarli
Ferrari 126 C2 used at Long Beach 1982 by Gilles Villeneuve.

Unfortunately I have no photos...

I have some! (Click on thumbnails to see larger photos.)


© Rainer W. Schlegelmilch, ''Ferrari F1" (Berlin, 2002).


Long live rally driving style! © N/a


Gilles closely followed by Keke Rosberg in his 'ordinary' Williams FW07C-Cosworth. © N/a


Why everyone is thinking only Gilles used this wing? © N/a

Some words about the story behind the double rear wing:
It was in summer 1981 when Harvey Postlethwaite became Scuderia Ferrari chef designer after Mauro Forghieri had been demoted to a head of engines department. He got very upset with the fact that Italian cars will be now developed by the Englishman (BTW first non-Italian since 1947!) and angry because of that trick with 'brakes-cooling water' widely used by several British teams. FISA and FOCA were involved in battle for power and authorities and (still) closed their eyes to this, so Forghieri thought he could read technical regulations between the lines too. Dr. P at that time was busy with the carbon monocoques technology and Forghieri got chance to show his designer's talent once again. Unfortunately it was wrong time...

Gilles later said: "These wings aren't necessarily more efficient than normal." So was Forghieri's invention useless? I believe it wasn't. IMHO he proved that even on such conditions he stayed great designer always being able to create something new. As to Villeneuve... Guys, did he really need all those wings to drive fast?!

World's first 'weed front wing' made using an advanced technology that produces bio-degradable racecar parts:



French driver Vasilije Calasan in Brit F3 (2004).

I stumbled across the following webpage and thought that it might be of interest in this thread.
While I am aware of attempts to save weight through the machining of various components,
I have never seen the body of a car lightened and drilled so much that it looks like Swiss cheese!

http://www.catamount...column_T800.htm

Does anyone else know of other examples of such extreme weight reduction?

The six-wheeled BRISCA F1 stock-car built and driven by "Gentleman" John Stirk from Halifax in 1977:



The inspiration for the car was a Chinese 6-wheeler truck that Stirk used in his haulage business:

And keeping on the six-wheel thread, a 6-wheel twin-engined rear-seat driven Mazda 323 from New Zealand:

Debating whether to post here or in this thread...

The unidentified car in Number Four is a Gemini, one of only two built.


It was most advanced for its (1961 or '62) time, with inboard disc brakes front and rear. The weird, bizarre, useless part is the exaggerated nostril-effect intakes, which did not work, as somehow the cooling air just didn't enter and do its job.

A little later this car ran at Willow Springs, with a standup-tall wing. The wing was self-trimming at speed, with valve springs compressed by aerodynamic loads. The wing and other innovations were the work of Fred Puhn, whose monocoque wheels first appeared (maybe) on this car.

The driver is Chuck McCarty, the pictures at Pomona (Los Angeles County Fairground).


Frank S

Actually four, or maybe even five, of the Gemini Mk IVs were made. The cooling issue was not due to the nose design, but rather due to the two side radiators employed. The later, single radiator mounted under the same nose solved the problem.

Dosco- I think those in picture were the same peda (V shaped) in order to allow for left and right foot braking... IIRC, Hans posted a four pedal layout from pre-war Mercedes.

Aerogi- Auto-Union for hillclimbs also had twin rear wheels (this is what Ferrari tried in '70-ies)...



And to show that not only cars got weird aerodynamic improvements( thanks to Rob Ryder) :

Re: Graham Hill's helmet

It is an odd looking device, but it has an interesting background. It was "invented" by Graham's friend & racer, Lance Macklin. Lance got the idea from the spinning visor used to clear the sea spray from the screen on the gun boats he was commanding during the war. If anyone is interested look at the 2008 July issue of Motorsport Magazine, page 80.

Re: Graham Hill's helmet

It is an odd looking device, but it has an interesting background. It was "invented" by Graham's friend & racer, Lance Macklin. Lance got the idea from the spinning visor used to clear the sea spray from the screen on the gun boats he was commanding during the war. If anyone is interested look at the 2008 July issue of Motorsport Magazine, page 80.

On page 17 of John Tenant's Motor Racing the golden age there's a photo from 1951 of Nino Farina demonstrating a similar device. So is this another urban myth?

As Macklin retired from racing after the 1955 TT, when Hill was just starting racing, would they have even known each other?

On page 17 of John Tenant's Motor Racing the golden age there's a photo from 1951 of Nino Farina demonstrating a similar device. So is this another urban myth?

As Macklin retired from racing after the 1955 TT, when Hill was just starting racing, would they have even known each other?

Macklin retired from racing in 1956 at the behest of his girl friend & later wife, Shelagh Cooper. However he remained active in the racing community, ergo his connection with Graham Hill, and in the automotive industry via his connection with Facel Vega. MotorSport Magazine is a wonderful source of well researched information thanks to writers like Mr Nye. Anyone interested should have a look at the comments by family & friends in the 2008 July issue.

Edited by layabout, 15 December 2012 - 18:21.

Jim Shampine’s 1979 rear-engined offset Oswego NY super modified:





Sources:

http://oswegocountytoday.com/?p=88043

http://www.retrorock...es/jimrear4.jpg

The car was banned shortly after it debuted, as the Owesgo track authorities feared it would make all the front-engined cars obsolete.

Turbo visors are still pretty common in kart racing.

The prototype 1981 Anson SA3 F3 car featured very unusual rear bodywork, with abbreviated sidepods and an integrated rear wing.



The bodywork was unsuccessful, and was replaced with a normal rear wing and full-length sidepods for the SA3C production model.

The prototype 1981 Anson SA3 F3 car featured very unusual rear bodywork, with abbreviated sidepods and an integrated rear wing.



The bodywork was unsuccessful, and was replaced with a normal rear wing and full-length sidepods for the SA3C production model.

Looks a lot like the '81 Gurney Eagle.
http://www.pbase.com...image/127806629

Bill Bowman's fully streamlined Caracal D Formula Vee:

Bill Bowman's fully streamlined Caracal D Formula Vee:

Please. more info on this wonder!

Bill Bowman's fully streamlined Caracal D Formula Vee:

A similar idea to Hugo Spowers, Prowess FF1600 in the 80's.

http://www.interney....owessFFordC.jpg

It's pretty ridiculous seeing that ancient Volkswagen front axle on such a futuristic design! It looked odd enough on a "normal" car already...

Turbo visors are still pretty common in kart racing.

Alongside Jim Redman, Graham Hill was probably its most high-profile user.
http://homepage.ntlw...tlas/visor1.jpg

Re: Graham Hill's helmet

It is an odd looking device, but it has an interesting background. It was "invented" by Graham's friend & racer, Lance Macklin. Lance got the idea from the spinning visor used to clear the sea spray from the screen on the gun boats he was commanding during the war. If anyone is interested look at the 2008 July issue of Motorsport Magazine, page 80.

Gunboats which were probably built by one of his father's businesses "Fairmile Marine"

Race footage and discussion of Tom Johnson's late 1990's sprintcar with an unusual front and top wing arrangement:

Re: Graham Hill's helmet

It is an odd looking device, but it has an interesting background. It was "invented" by Graham's friend & racer, Lance Macklin. Lance got the idea from the spinning visor used to clear the sea spray from the screen on the gun boats he was commanding during the war. If anyone is interested look at the 2008 July issue of Motorsport Magazine, page 80.

The MTB rotating windscreen was produced by Kent Industries and senior member of Kent Industries was Graham's next door neighbour in Mill Hill.

I think, but by no means sure , that the spinning GH visor appeared in a famous photo of him ramming a bank at a VERY wet Snetterton in '63 aimed right at the photographer. It may have been one of the first outings of the then-new BRM monocoque car.