F5000 entrant & manufacturer Tony Kitchiner

..this brings back memories.. I remember the Marina V8 and the fibreglass wheels when TK very kindly showed me round the workshop underneath the arches just before they set off for the F5000 race at Mallory. Gordon Spice was there and IIRC was certainly not keen on trying the wheels again after the centres had detached during a test...

when Rene Arnoux was leave alone in 74 a Kitchener Mac Laren M19 was prepared for F5000

[img]http://img158.images...enmq8.jpg(/img]

Edited by Gerard Gamand, 25 August 2009 - 08:20.

Nice photo Gérard, (but for some reason it didn't opening for me, so here goes!)

Andrew:

Any ideas on who the crew members are standing next to the M19?

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Andrew:

Any ideas on who the crew members are standing next to the M19?

(From L to R) Pugh (Jnr), Pugh (Snr), Barney McGrew. Guthbert, Dibble and Grubb were of course back at base finishing off the pedal extensions for Rene Artois-Noux.

Middle one is Tony Kitchiner, isn't it?

Are we spelling his surname correctly by the way...?

Originally posted by MCS
Middle one is Tony Kitchiner, isn't it?

Are we spelling his surname correctly by the way...?

Yes we are. There is an 'i' where many people mistakenly put an 'e'.

Allen

I recall when marshalling at Lodge corner at Oulton during the 70 s that Roger Williamson went off in a Kitchiner, or Kitchmac ? could have been either as i no longer have my collection of programmes.
The car was numbered 99 which make me belive it was a Kitchiner.

It was a round of the F5000 Championship and it was one of my rare visits to Oulton.


Pete

I'm guessing that was October 1972.

Allen

Originally posted by Allen Brown
I'm guessing that was October 1972.

Allen

Yes he collided with John Cannon's March on the penultimate lap.

The car wasn't badly damaged and re-appeared for the final round at Brands as Roger sought to gain Tarmac points...

As i remember Roger had been following the Cannon Car and took a lunge up the inside at Lodge then i think he must have hit the kerb as he went straight across into the barrier or bank as it was then . As you say it was not badly damaged which pleased me too see.

Allen is spot on that was the meeting i attended.


Pete

I can add a few footnotes to the Tony Kitchiner story - I hope they are of interest. I spent some time working for Tony in the famous Stamford Brook Arches - he took me on specifically to work on the fibreglass panels on the F5000 car. I can vividly recall my first view of the beast, thinking who the hell is going to be mad enough to drive this thing? It had a wheelbase no longer than a kitchen table from a bed-sit, and this thumping great 4.7 motor bolted into what appeared to be a section of BR rolling stock.
However, it was made to be driven, and Gordon Spice was the man to do it. I can't recall any particular races, but I do remember something happening to Gordon on the start line at Brands. He either ran up the back of the car in front, or the one behind did that to him - anyway, by the time we got to him he was sitting there, foot still flat on the floor, going nowhere! Somebody leant over the front of the car and killed the engine for him......can anybody else verify this story?
Tony was a great guy, very versatile and inventive, the camera car perhaps being the prime example of that.
Of the other projects I recall, the modified Lotus Europa (any bells ringing?) was perhaps the maddest, and as they say nowadays, the baddest. From somewhere, Tony had acquired a perfectly innocent Lotus Europa, a car I suppose we all remember as being very pretty, and very slow. I daresay (ex)owners of them will have many more reasons for remembering them! This car sat meekly on the worshop floor, until one day Tony suddenly fell on it and cut it in half! Into the foot wide gap which had materialised a section of BRs' finest was inserted, and into that was bolted another giant V8. (Or was it actually the engine from the racecar, don't remember) I was tasked with repairing the violated fibreglass structure, and memory tells me that I managed to accomplish that.....except for the doors. So one fine day, Tony and A.N.Other donned their rallyjackets and set off on the maiden voyage of this hybrid hero. Myself and one other jumped into a handy Mini Cooper and off we all went to our local test track, otherwise known as the North Circular. We managed to stay in touch up to about 80, I think, and then Tony floored it. Simultaneously with the great lunge forward, both rallyjackets exploded out of the open sides, billowing out like parachutes. Undeterred, Tony kept his foot in it, and the Lotus, complete with a fine set of Mickey Mouse ears, disappeared over the horizon.........

Originally posted by Allen Brown
I'm guessing that was October 1972.

Allen

Roger Williamson in the Kitchmac at Lodge Corner prior to shunt.



The Kitchmac is extracted!

This is my first reply to this website. I am not sure which item I am replying to, so please forgive me.
I worked for Tony Kitchiner in 1965, when he had a garage at Wrestlingworth, Bedfordshire. He had raced or sprinted a TR3, then an early Lotus Elan. In 1965 he had a Lotus 23b. It had a nail of an engine and the revcounter did not work. Easter at Mallory (I think but not sure of date) the crank broke going round Gerards.
We used to test it on trade plates on the back roads. I drove it. That frightened Tony. He had a few good finishes, I think a win at Silverstone, was it a Formula Libre race? I seem to remember Rob Widdows in a F3 car dicing with him, ?? I lost touch but knew he had a place in 'The Arches' and built a F3 car. I know the 5000 car was the same chassis with different bits bolted on. His wife was Pat, and there were two kids, Michael and Penny. I think she went to Norfolk and was interested in horses. I heard he packed up all his racing activities and went to Spain. I last saw Tony at Brands Hatch, I was racing a formula Vee then, I think it might have been about 1992 and it was a Formula Vee festival. He was in England and just turned up to have a look. Does anyone know of him now?

Originally posted by David M. Kane

Tony is in the middle of the three behind the car. When I knew him his hair was much shorter!
Andrew:

Any ideas on who the crew members are standing next to the M19?

Originally posted by theroon Yes that sounds just like Tony - in 1965, testing his 23b on trade plates, on small back roads, he must have got up to 7000 in 4th, although the rev counter didnt work. We were never passed, including a trip down to Brabhams to collect a spacer plate, we were in a 105e Anglia van, which can go completely sideways on most corners, flat in 4th.

I can add a few footnotes to the Tony Kitchiner story - I hope they are of interest. I spent some time working for Tony in the famous Stamford Brook Arches - he took me on specifically to work on the fibreglass panels on the F5000 car. I can vividly recall my first view of the beast, thinking who the hell is going to be mad enough to drive this thing? It had a wheelbase no longer than a kitchen table from a bed-sit, and this thumping great 4.7 motor bolted into what appeared to be a section of BR rolling stock.
However, it was made to be driven, and Gordon Spice was the man to do it. I can't recall any particular races, but I do remember something happening to Gordon on the start line at Brands. He either ran up the back of the car in front, or the one behind did that to him - anyway, by the time we got to him he was sitting there, foot still flat on the floor, going nowhere! Somebody leant over the front of the car and killed the engine for him......can anybody else verify this story?
Tony was a great guy, very versatile and inventive, the camera car perhaps being the prime example of that.
Of the other projects I recall, the modified Lotus Europa (any bells ringing?) was perhaps the maddest, and as they say nowadays, the baddest. From somewhere, Tony had acquired a perfectly innocent Lotus Europa, a car I suppose we all remember as being very pretty, and very slow. I daresay (ex)owners of them will have many more reasons for remembering them! This car sat meekly on the worshop floor, until one day Tony suddenly fell on it and cut it in half! Into the foot wide gap which had materialised a section of BRs' finest was inserted, and into that was bolted another giant V8. (Or was it actually the engine from the racecar, don't remember) I was tasked with repairing the violated fibreglass structure, and memory tells me that I managed to accomplish that.....except for the doors. So one fine day, Tony and A.N.Other donned their rallyjackets and set off on the maiden voyage of this hybrid hero. Myself and one other jumped into a handy Mini Cooper and off we all went to our local test track, otherwise known as the North Circular. We managed to stay in touch up to about 80, I think, and then Tony floored it. Simultaneously with the great lunge forward, both rallyjackets exploded out of the open sides, billowing out like parachutes. Undeterred, Tony kept his foot in it, and the Lotus, complete with a fine set of Mickey Mouse ears, disappeared over the horizon.........

Albert Badan raced and hillclimbed his Kitchiner first in F3, then, from 1971 on, he did some hillclimbs with a Rover V8 installed. Does anybody know who did the transformation work? Was it done by Tony Kitchiner himself?

There was a multi page article on Kitchiner in an April edition of Autosport 1970/71? Badans car is mentioned and a photo shows it waiting for its new engine the castellations on the lower chassis rail show up very well. I drove the car in "pre 71 series "for a year or so and despite its lack of power (225?) it went well. Cevert also spoke well of the car when he finished 6th at Magny Cour in its earlier F3 form (1968/9?)

On display at Oulton at this years Gold Cup.

There was a multi page article on Kitchiner in an April edition of Autosport 1970/71? Badans car is mentioned and a photo shows it waiting for its new engine the castellations on the lower chassis rail show up very well. I drove the car in "pre 71 series "for a year or so and despite its lack of power (225?) it went well. Cevert also spoke well of the car when he finished 6th at Magny Cour in its earlier F3 form (1968/9?)

Did this race and if so who was the driver?

On display at Oulton at this years Gold Cup.

Previous reply wrong quote,sorry.

Did this race Kitchiner & if so who was the driver?

Can I throw in what may be a complete red-herring? I may be completely misremembering this and if it's correct it means Tony Kitchiner moved around a bit. In the late '70's/early '80's I was working as a Sales Engineer and I recall following up a sales lead who proved to be Tony Kitchiner. The thing is I'm sure it was at a small workshop in Plymouth. I'm sure he was working on a project which had no racing involvement but I guess it would have involved hydraulics.

I seem to recall that he was none too pleased when I recognised who he was and he said he was finished with motor racing.

Edited by RCH, 24 December 2009 - 07:59.

The kitchiner did not run at Oulton Park.It was brought for display purposes by its owner.It was in the garage next to me.rkl

The kitchiner did not run at Oulton Park.It was brought for display purposes by its owner.It was in the garage next to me.rkl

Correct. It was part of the line up of cars celebrating 40 years of F5000.

Hi just come across this. The one on the left of the picture is me Phil Bradford,who was Chief Mechanic then you have Tony. next on the right is a young chap who was a Draughtsman who was Racing mad, sorry can't remember his name, Still have some Picture's similar to these & the story of that year

Hope that helps Phil Bradford

I spoke to someone this morning who sees Tony regularly and tells me that he is living very quietly these days, carrying out engineering & repair projects for a farm which incorporates a small but active airfield. He now lives a few miles outside Cambridge.

Allen

I've scanned umpteen phone books and looked at all reported areas where Tony might live, without any success. I'm still not convinced on the spelling as KitchIner is not being listed whereas KitchEner is.

Allen who's your contact?

I spoke to someone this morning who sees Tony regularly and tells me that he is living very quietly these days, carrying out engineering & repair projects for a farm which incorporates a small but active airfield. He now lives a few miles outside Cambridge.

Allen

I am pleased to say that I had a nice chat with Tony today. Its only taken 7 years, a thread I started in 2004! You'll be equally pleased to know that he's going to document several drawers full of information about his cars, so watch this space. Mind you he's still working so it may take some time.

That's great news. For some reason my subscription to this thread had been lost so I didn't see the two posts last year.

Here is some more information about Tony Kitchener's construction and racing career.

Volume 141 of the Autocar (1974) reported that Kitchener had set a new caravan speed record, when a Panther caravan reached a speed of 110 mph while being towed behind Kitchener's F5000 McLaren at the Tibbenham Airfield in Norfolk.

Volume 21 of the The Chartered Mechanical Engineer (1974) said "Formula 5000 Project International Racing Driver Tony Kitchener and mechanical engineering students from the North East London Polytechnic are joing forces to produce a Formula 5000 car for next season".

Here is some more information about Tony Kitchener's construction and racing career.

Volume 141 of the Autocar (1974) reported that Kitchener had set a new caravan speed record, when a Panther caravan reached a speed of 110 mph while being towed behind Kitchener's F5000 McLaren at the Tibbenham Airfield in Norfolk.

Volume 21 of the The Chartered Mechanical Engineer (1974) said "Formula 5000 Project International Racing Driver Tony Kitchener and mechanical engineering students from the North East London Polytechnic are joing forces to produce a Formula 5000 car for next season".

100 lines for mis-spelling Kitchener! There are plenty of KitchEners but very few KitchIners.

Here is some more information about Tony Kitchener's construction and racing career.

Volume 141 of the Autocar (1974) reported that Kitchener had set a new caravan speed record, when a Panther caravan reached a speed of 110 mph while being towed behind Kitchener's F5000 McLaren at the Tibbenham Airfield in Norfolk.

Volume 21 of the The Chartered Mechanical Engineer (1974) said "Formula 5000 Project International Racing Driver Tony Kitchener and mechanical engineering students from the North East London Polytechnic are joing forces to produce a Formula 5000 car for next season".

the Caravan record is true as I was the one that drove the car in testing it & I have the photograph to prove it unfortunately I am not clever enough to put it on here (unless someone can help me do it ) Panther Caravans Gave us a 4 wheel Caravan to go to the meetings with for nothing as long as we attempted the record

Cheers Phil Bradford

Phil: If you send me the photo to: pscarmen@aol.com

I will post it for you,

Jerry Entin

Edited by Jerry Entin, 23 April 2011 - 17:45.

Yes Jean-Bernard, that's the man. I wasn't too sure about the spelling of his name as my French isn't too good!

Just remembered that Tony Kitchiner took over the Nemo F3 project from Bernard McInerney, but I can't recall if the cars ever ran at all, in any form of racing.

I spoke to Tony Kitchiner last week and he says that Peter Hardman drove the Nemo- however Peter followed this by saying "I have driven a few cars over the years but I don’t remember the Nemo Project at all". Who's right?

Another factoid apparently a nose cone of the Nemo was chequered and signed by Jackie Stewart. Has this turned up anywhere?

Volume 141 of the Autocar (1974) reported that Kitchener had set a new caravan speed record, when a Panther caravan reached a speed of 110 mph while being towed behind Kitchener's F5000 McLaren at the Tibbenham Airfield in Norfolk.

the Caravan record is true as I was the one that drove the car in testing it & I have the photograph to prove it unfortunately I am not clever enough to put it on here (unless someone can help me do it ) Panther Caravans Gave us a 4 wheel Caravan to go to the meetings with for nothing as long as we attempted the record

Cheers Phil Bradford

By giraffe138 at 2011-06-15

Photo posted on behalf of Phil Bradford.

I spoke to Tony Kitchiner last week and he says that Peter Hardman drove the Nemo- however Peter followed this by saying "I have driven a few cars over the years but I don’t remember the Nemo Project at all". Who's right?

Far too long ago for Peter Hardman to have driven it, unless there is/was another Peter Hardman of course...

Here's a picture of McInernay:
http://www.bennett.c.../ss1554_001.jpg

and more details here: http://www.f3history...s/Nemo/nemo.htm

Edited by MCS, 15 June 2011 - 21:04.

By giraffe138 at 2011-06-15

Photo posted on behalf of Phil Bradford.

Photoshop!!!

If it's not Photoshop then that looks like a McLaren M19A pulling a caravan!

Far too long ago for Peter Hardman to have driven it, unless there is/was another Peter Hardman of course...

Here's a picture of McInernay:
http://www.bennett.c.../ss1554_001.jpg

and more details here: http://www.f3history...s/Nemo/nemo.htm

I only see one driver, which one? Brendon, Mac or Irney! We always referred to him as three despite his stature. Nice bloke though.

Photoshop!!!

If it's not Photoshop then that looks like a McLaren M19A pulling a caravan!

No. it's not Photoshop Allen, I've seen the original pic and it is one of the M19s that were converted to F5000. Phil Bradford (pictured driving here) worked for Brian Robinson and I'm speaking with him this morning so I'll clarify things.

Edited by Giraffe, 16 June 2011 - 07:01.

Kitchiner had two M19s, M19A/1 which had been converted to F5000 spec and M19C/1 which hung in his roof in very original condition until bought by its current owner in 1975.

So this would be M19A/1, showing here the 77 number used when René Arnoux, Tony Trimmer and Gordon Spice raced it in F5000. It's the same car John Foulston used in HSCC F1 seven years later.

Phil - could I use that picture on OldRacingCars.com?

So this would be M19A/1, showing here the 77 number used when René Arnoux, Tony Trimmer and Gordon Spice raced it in F5000. It's the same car John Foulston used in HSCC F1 seven years later.

Phil - could I use that picture on OldRacingCars.com?

Just spoken to Phil and he would be more than happy for you to use the pic, Allen. Phil is also sending me a similar pic to the one that has dissapeared from this thread showing Rene Arnoux in the car for re-posting here.

Phil worked on the Brian Robinson M19 and then went to Tony Kitchener to work on his similar cars. He says he'd be very interested to know where they are and what they are doing now. I've updated Phil as far as OldRacingCars.com allows me to, but if you have any additional info, can you e-mail it to me for Phil please, Allen?

Edited by Giraffe, 16 June 2011 - 08:50.

Hi just come across this. The one on the left of the picture is me Phil Bradford,who was Chief Mechanic then you have Tony. next on the right is a young chap who was a Draughtsman who was Racing mad, sorry can't remember his name, Still have some Picture's similar to these & the story of that year

Hope that helps Phil Bradford

Phil has just asked me to post this pic for him from the same publicity shoot to replace the one that seems to have dissapeared. Phil is on the rear wheel on the right of the photo.


By giraffe138 at 2011-06-16

No. it's not Photoshop Allen, I've seen the original pic and it is one of the M19s that were converted to F5000. Phil Bradford (pictured driving here) worked for Brian Robinson and I'm speaking with him this morning so I'll clarify things.

I think his caravan towing record was beaten in 1980 by Robin Hamilton with his Aston RHAM/1, who raised it to a smidgen over 124 mph (in the wet ). Not sure if that record still stands?

Were there never F1 plans from Tony Kitchiner? He had an McLaren F1 car, had designed own cars - so he was near to F1...

Were there never F1 plans from Tony Kitchiner? He had an McLaren F1 car, had designed own cars - so he was near to F1...

hi i dont know about what you have asked but iam his son michael and spent a lot of time whit the cars and helping with the wheels and cleaning the cars great fun at the age of 9 - 10, i can remember the arches as some one put earlier and the small little office, does any one know what the old man is up to as its been a while since i last sopke to him. thanks for any help.

I think his caravan towing record was beaten in 1980 by Robin Hamilton with his Aston RHAM/1, who raised it to a smidgen over 124 mph (in the wet ). Not sure if that record still stands?

I still want to know how you put a towhitch on a 5000? Not a lot back there to attach too apart from the gearbox.
Towing a caravan fast [why] would be better achieved with powerfull full size car as it pushes most of the air around the van. And is stable enough to do so.

Hi

I worked with Phil at Tony Kitchiners in 1974 I think, I have been trying to get in touch with Tony, without success. Do you have any contact details for him?

I still want to know how you put a towhitch on a 5000? Not a lot back there to attach too apart from the gearbox.
Towing a caravan fast [why] would be better achieved with powerfull full size car as it pushes most of the air around the van. And is stable enough to do so.

Hi
I designed the "towbar", it fixed onto the Hewland box, we also (later) had a big aero cone to deflect the air around the front face because on the first trial we blew the caravan apart when the front window imploded. I'm sure there will be photos of the wreck. We were also on the evening news when Tony K rolled (deliberately) the caravan in front of the cameras.
Regards
Steve

the Caravan record is true as I was the one that drove the car in testing it & I have the photograph to prove it unfortunately I am not clever enough to put it on here (unless someone can help me do it ) Panther Caravans Gave us a 4 wheel Caravan to go to the meetings with for nothing as long as we attempted the record

Cheers Phil Bradford

Hi Phil
Steve Greenwood here, I was the draffie at TKD with you back then. Glad you haven't smoked yourself to death, are you still married to that crazy South African lady? Where are you nowadays? Please get in touch if you have time.
Regards Steve

Can I throw in what may be a complete red-herring? I may be completely misremembering this and if it's correct it means Tony Kitchiner moved around a bit. In the late '70's/early '80's I was working as a Sales Engineer and I recall following up a sales lead who proved to be Tony Kitchiner. The thing is I'm sure it was at a small workshop in Plymouth. I'm sure he was working on a project which had no racing involvement but I guess it would have involved hydraulics.

I seem to recall that he was none too pleased when I recognised who he was and he said he was finished with motor racing.

Spoke to Tony tonight- he indeed did have a workshop in Plymouth and remembered your name.