OT: Question about posting pictures
#1
Posted 26 July 2000 - 16:03
However, it struck me that we're using lots of pictures with copyright. Are we really allowed to do that? I don't know the exact content of copyright laws so I'm a bit confused about this. It really would be a shame if we could get into legal trouble for using other peoples pictures. I mean, we're not making money on them, we're just using them for explanation or information purposes. Does anybody know the correct behaviour on these issues?
"The (potential) outlaw"
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#2
Posted 26 July 2000 - 16:25
This theme was topic in another motorsport forum some weeks ago, and it really includes some rather explosive components!
It is reported that especially the lawyers of McLaren-Mercedes are rather busy nowadays, prohibiting not only the non-commercial internet publication of their own pictures - e.g. those from their official website -, but also privately taken photos showing one of their cars or even showing the WEST logo.
Okay, most pictures shown here in our historic forum have no actual commercial concern, but you are acorrect, most of them by one way or another have a copyright. And in most cases the copyright owner is not the owner of the homepage from which we have taken them ...
Some years ago I heard some guys shouting about the endless freedom of the web, but realistically ... who knows??
May be our administrators can take care of this question?
#3
Posted 26 July 2000 - 17:36
Ron Dennis, sue my pants off!!!
#4
Posted 26 July 2000 - 17:59
Seems, the guy in his car soon will get some troubles with the lawyers of McLaren-Mercedes ...
BTW: It is the A1-Autobahn, you can clearly see that! Maybe not in Germany, but in Austria.;)
#5
Posted 26 July 2000 - 18:53
It is in fact the A1 Bremen-Hamburg, the photo has been taken between exit 22 (Buxtehude) and exit 23 (Hintertupfingen), about 400 meters after the rest area with the green toilette. The displayed car is the newly introduced highway police car specially developed for catching speeders. Although donated by a large German automobile factory (as can be seen by the logo), the expenses for running these cars exceeded the available budget considerably, so police authorities decided to drop the traditional green-white layout in favour of a sponsor livery. It is reported that expenses per km consequently could be reduced from DEM 2.856,45 to only DEM 0,04. As this is even much lower than standard police cars, other squadrons are now studying similar projects.
#6
Posted 26 July 2000 - 20:18
"We can get more money by combining the fine with the TV rights even though we can't do the job as efficiently as the automated cameras," a spokesman said. "Then we ask the booked motorist to dance, and thus we get a better fee from Channel 9, which increases if he dances on the roof of the car."
The speed cameras, meanwhile, have been sold to motor race promoters, who are having a field day putting 'copyright' signs at the entry gates and confiscating all camera equipment as people arrive. They are now selling photographs taken by the speed cameras at up to 20 locations around the circuit, and find that most cars will be photographed about 20 times in a five-lap race.
The next move will be to make the photos available to stewards to help them in deciding disputes about driving misbehavior on the circuit. Techniques are being studied and camera locations being perfected so the most common breaches will be automatically covered.
CF... As for the copyrights on the photos, I have no idea what the ramifications are... and it has crossed my mind more than once. I think it's ridiculous that photographers and artists are able to be sued by companies who put the stinking signs on the car to promote products or companies. How does it raise the stature of a company with anyone if the photographers or artists are getting sued - or simply being prevented from plying their trade - by the teams?
It happens here, too. Larry Perkins' lawyers tried to prevent a friend of mine from selling art prints including the Perkins car. Said friend went to a lawyer who put him onto a Patent Attorney who rang the Perkins lawyer and said "I won't even bother talking to you unless you're a Patent specialist, now leave my client alone."
Being an artist, he can shade logos and blur them for effect and they are no longer subject to copyright...
What a minefield, what a stupid situation!
#7
Posted 26 July 2000 - 23:19
#8
Posted 27 July 2000 - 01:35
Hintertupfingen, do I detect another Faller-model builder here?
#9
Posted 27 July 2000 - 04:02
#10
Posted 27 July 2000 - 04:07
#11
Posted 27 July 2000 - 07:09
Anyway, that picture of the car was taken somewhere between London and Edinburgh (probably just north of Luton) on the A1(M) in England, as it clearly shows some Scottish driver in a hurry to get home.
#12
Posted 27 July 2000 - 07:17
Originally posted by Darren Galpin
Anyway, that picture of the car was taken somewhere between London and Edinburgh (probably just north of Luton) on the A1(M) in England, as it clearly shows some Scottish driver in a hurry to get home.
Hurrying home or trying to avoid a road rage incident with a German in a Ferrari coming up in his mirrors?
#13
Posted 27 July 2000 - 08:57
Some of the photos I've been posting have been from Nigel Snowdon's book, and in some threads I have mentioned this. Others are from the Australian Grand Prix book, and I know I don't need to. Then there are sundry photos for which I don't have any idea of their origins... too bad.
#14
Posted 27 July 2000 - 08:58
I wonder how West and the other sponsors would react to RD trying to restrict the use of images of the Macs given that they are virtually rolling billboards and every time we post a picture of his cars we are in fact providing free advertising for any of the sponsors who's logos are visible in the photos. I don't know about you, but if I was paying RD cubic money to advertise on his cars I would take a dim view of him trying to restrict the exposure of my logo in almost any way. I suspect if his threats were directed to the attention of the ad agency that handles West or Mobil 1, they might tell ol' Ron to put a sock in it!
#15
Posted 27 July 2000 - 12:54
Coca Cola insisted that we had no right to use their name!
Their attitude is wierd, and I'll tell you that the sponsors are behind Ron Dennis completely. I don't know what their distorted thinking is, but it's a world-wide move.
It's to do with rights to trademarks and their exclusivity on merchandise.
#16
Posted 27 July 2000 - 14:20
The horse and buggy meets the computer age.
#17
Posted 27 July 2000 - 14:44
At first I thought it was a joke - but it wasn't.
It makes me wonder about a book I saw recently in one of the many catalogues I get. The TITLE of the book was something like: "Xxxx the Rolls-Royce of Motorcycles".
(I think it was motorcycles, could have been something else).
#18
Posted 27 July 2000 - 15:39
-QUOTE-
UNAUTHORISED USE OF IMAGE
I have been instructed to write to you by McLaren International Limited
("McLaren"), a company within the TAG McLaren Group of companies.
McLaren has had brought to its attention the Quick-Nick website and of the West
Competition Team's F3000 racing cars. The site features a number of pictures
of Nick Heidfeld and of the West Competition Team's F3000 racing cars. The
publication of these images has not been authorised and amounts to an
infringement in the copyright to the photograph and to that which exists in the
livery of the car itself.
The website acknowledges that the relevant pictures are copyright to mclaren.net
but such a notice does not validate the publication of a copyright work. The
purpose of copyright law is to prevent unauthorised reproduction of photographs,
as in this case, and not merely to require an acknowledgement to the owner of
the copyright.
Furthermore, the livery of the West McLaren Mercedes Formula One and West
Competition team F3000 cars are artistic works as contemplated by the Copyright
Design and Patents Act 1988. This livery was created at substantial expense and
with the input of many man hours. The livery is now widely recognised as one of
the most innovative and distinctive in motor sports. The publication of the
photograph of this vehicle constitutes an infringement of the copyright in the
design of its livery. I must advise you in this respect that we have recently
taken Leading Counsel's advice to support this in a similar situation to this
and thereafter took High Court proceedings in the English courts against a well
known High Street retailer which resulted in an agreement to pay substantial
damages and costs to McLaren International Limited.
It is important to note that Nick Heidfeld has rights over the use of his image
which are protectable in many jurisdictions. Therefore, imagery featuring Nick
Heidfeld should not be used without the driver's express permission.
In the circumstances, unless I receive by close of business on Friday, 30th June
agreement to the terms outlined below, I will be instructing our external
solicitors to commence proceedings for damages and injunctive relief without
further notice to yourself:
1. You will whether directly or indirectly or whether by your servants, agents
or otherwise howsoever immediately remove all imagery of Nick Heidfeld, the West
McLaren Mercedes Formula One car and the McLaren F3000 cars from the
nick-heidfeld.com and any other website, and shall not at any point in the
future print, copy, reproduce or otherwise publish any such image in any form in
any media whatsoever.
2. In the event that you agree to paragraph 1 above but shall breach any of the
terms thereof then McLaren reserves the rights to issue proceedings for damages
and injunctive relief based upon the original cause of action in addition to any
breach of paragraphs 1 above. of this letter.
Yours faithfully
Mark Hubbard
Legal Adviser
-UNQUOTE-
This clearly says that not only the official McLaren pictures - e.g. those from their website - are protected by copyright, but also the images of drivers and the livery of racing cars in general. This means that also publication of privately taken pictures are a copyright infringement - at least according to McLaren's point of view!
#19
Posted 27 July 2000 - 20:51
Or will they?
Anybody got a Durex Surtees photo?
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#20
Posted 29 July 2000 - 20:09
Perhaps another way of looking at it is for every person that is ever threatened by these legal advisers to claim that the image/s in question are indeed screensavers from an official site - How are the legal gurus going to prove otherwise??
#21
Posted 29 July 2000 - 21:30
Whilst I might very well understand the theatrical concern of some legal advisors over the "infringement" of copyright laws on the net, let's be clear: it is a lost battle. I know it might seem very incorrect on my part to say that, and many of us, not so young, might still feel a certain respect for rules, hence generating some kind of mental concern. But one of the basic rules -common sense, really- of any given legal system is that you should only regulate aspects of human behaviour that you can somehow monitor. By monitor I mean (and I excuse myself, but I do not think I have ever written about anything else but cars and drivers in English) the chance that a given power might have to make people behave in a certain way, and penalising the behaviour that goes against that.
Well, in a world where the powers want to impose behaviours on everybody all the time, I think we all welcomed the internet as a pretty major revolution for various reasons. One of them, of course, is that there is a major re-foundation of the rules; old rules will not be valid over the net, unless users agree, basically not because we are making any revolution, but because rules are impossible to "monitor", if you know what I mean. Let me give you another example: insulting people is normally something that a legal system will traditionally contemplate as an unacceptable behaviour, and, since Roman times, some kind of penalty was to be imposed on the insulting person. Now, when on the net, us users know that, should we be insulted -for instance, on a Forum- the thing to do is ask for the intermediation of a Moderator, that will do whatever he feels he has to do, within his powers (but of course will not go to court!). The example goes to show that whilst some serious offences might be at present the subject of discussion between the governments of the world as regards of how to coordinate action against them, some others, and we go back to copyrights, are just on a second class ticket. At the end, notwithstanding the fact that definitions on copyright infringements are a sorry sight (and this is a professional opinion) the simple idea of witnessing the creation of a worldwide Big Brother in charge of prosecuting "illegal" scanning of images (protected in their country with a copyright, I mean) is so ridiculous that I do not want to give it a second thought.
When the authorities solve the really serious problems that the net might create (and I am talking about the kind of offences that will -and do- freeze our spirits, like organised traffic of children or human organs) then, and only then, we will be ready to hear their points of view on copyright.
For the time being, let's just laugh at their ridiculous propositions. As loud as possible.
#22
Posted 29 July 2000 - 22:20
In other words, anything can happen. Let's hope it doesn't happen to us.
#23
Posted 29 July 2000 - 22:41
Yes, I agree with your comment. Anything can happen. But I have the sensation that pre-68 material won´t attract too much attention anyway...
;-)
fm
#24
Posted 30 July 2000 - 04:06
#25
Posted 30 July 2000 - 09:08
Their claim is that the logos and paint schemes etc are copyright, and that the photographer is infringing on that.
Unbelievable!
Photographers have gone out of business over this.
#26
Posted 30 July 2000 - 13:46
#27
Posted 30 July 2000 - 15:13
#28
Posted 31 July 2000 - 22:51
#29
Posted 02 November 2000 - 10:55
last time I posted about this subject was at the end of July this year. 90 days have elapsed, and I want to share with you today some paragraphs that I read this morning on today's Financial Times, editorial on page 18.
Under the heading "The corralling of Napster" we can find these "jewels" (very indicative, in my humble opinion)
(the recording industry)...has been reluctant to adapt to this new world, PREFERRING TO CLING TO TRADITIONAL COPYRIGHT LAWS. But the law is likely to prove too cumbersome to defeat the nimble forces of internet piracy…
…The ability to distribute music (or other intellectual property) at almost zero cost has profound implications…
…Clearly, the copyright laws should continue to protect the interests of those who have created original material, WHERE THAT IS PRACTICABLE…
…This is a struggle in which the fittest can survive. But dinosaurs CONTENT TO DO NOTHING BUT INSIST ON THEIR PRESUMED LEGAL RIGHTS will find that a new species of younger, nimbler operators has taken over their habitat…
I do not think I have to elaborate much further...
Felix Muelas
#30
Posted 02 November 2000 - 15:17
http://www.atlasf1.c...?threadid=11343
#31
Posted 02 November 2000 - 21:32
#32
Posted 03 November 2000 - 05:24