Unraced cars & engines
#51
Posted 26 September 2002 - 17:27
The Cowell here is Bob/Roberta Cowell.
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#52
Posted 26 September 2002 - 17:45
Originally posted by alessandro silva
I'd like to know something about the Cowell-Aspin 12 cylinder of about 1946/47.
The Cowell here is Bob/Roberta Cowell.
So, I suspect, would the people who put money into it ...
#53
Posted 26 September 2002 - 22:31
Originally posted by Vitesse2
So, I suspect, would the people who put money into it ...
PdeRL
#54
Posted 28 September 2002 - 20:35
#55
Posted 28 September 2002 - 21:36
Originally posted by Alvega
Did anyone mention already the Matra V6 Biturbo (early 80s IIRC).
Yep, can't remember why they pulled it though - was Guy Ligier being his
usual charming self?
pete
#56
Posted 08 October 2002 - 07:33
I first heard of this from Ted Martin, of Martin V-8 fame. A former RAF pilot, Ted was very keen on the idea of a F1 sleeve-valve engine himself.
Then, five to ten years ago--when I was formulating a research proposal on sleeve-valve engines--I got in touch with Hewland senior via the works. He told me the engine had run, and that making the sleeves was not nearly as difficult as the old Napier and Bristol aero engine saga would suggest. He also said that there was still one engine around, and perhaps it could be made to run. (I should add that Hewland junior was not keen on people bothering the old man, who had made himself ill through overworking.)
Sadly, my proposal came to naught and I never got to see the Hewland engine!
#57
Posted 04 April 2004 - 11:03
I've found a lot of F2 specification cars, or projects, that never raced in a F2 event:
1.965
Ginetta G8
1.966
Brabham BT11/BMW 2.000 Apfelbeck
1.967
Pilbeam R9
1.968
Abarth 2.000 F Libre
Lotus 57
LAB
1.970
De Sanctis 1601
1.971
BMW project
Huron
1.972
Allegrini SM
1.973
Crosslé 26F
Veglia Hill Climb
1.974
Van Holl VHM0001
Helle-Saab project
Horag HAS7
Royale RP20
1.976
Sana RD9
1.978
Martini Mk25 Hill Climb
1.979
Martini Mk28 Hill Climb
Mirage M1
1.980
Stadler
1.981
Pilbeam MP46
Does anyone know anymore "F2 car that never raced" ????
Thaks in advance,
Rafa
#58
Posted 04 April 2004 - 14:19
#59
Posted 04 April 2004 - 16:00
From memory, I think the GRS of ex-Maurer man Günther Richter never raced. I'm sure there were others, will think about it.
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#60
Posted 04 April 2004 - 16:08
The GRS TC001 ran at least at the XV Deutschland Trophy 1981Originally posted by fines From memory, I think the GRS of ex-Maurer man Günther Richter never raced. I'm sure there were others, will think about it.
#61
Posted 04 April 2004 - 23:29
(And there was that very elongated BMW powered device we saw a few weeks back!)
#62
Posted 05 April 2004 - 03:43
#63
Posted 05 April 2004 - 09:20
Originally posted by petefenelon
Slightly later, but the Vision and Magnum F3 chassis were both laid out with the assumption that they could be turned into F3000 cars.
(And there was that very elongated BMW powered device we saw a few weeks back!)
Wainer? didnt that turn into an Interserie car later on?
#64
Posted 05 April 2004 - 10:04
Originally posted by ghinzani
Wainer? didnt that turn into an Interserie car later on?
Wagner --
http://forums.atlasf...ht=wagner f3000
Wainer rings a bell - Italian FJ and "screamer" F3 cars?
(Actually, an aside here - in the "two litre years" of F2 and F3, what were the differences in chassis regs between the formulae? - I assume that practically, an F3 was built with much smaller fuel tank for the shorter races and tamer engines they ran, but were there significant differences in the regs - was it feasible to have a basically common tub across the two formulae? Evidence seems to point to it not being a good idea -- It seems that March, for example, generally stuck to the narrow '71 F3 tub when they were successful in F3, but their F2 tubs tended to be dual purpose with GP use possible...)
#65
Posted 05 April 2004 - 10:07
(It's no hardship, it's such a fun book to browse!)
#66
Posted 05 April 2004 - 11:08
#67
Posted 05 April 2004 - 11:10
#68
Posted 05 April 2004 - 13:47
An other sponsor-name March 712 was the Somalita F2 (bananas brand) , driven by italian Ettore Ricci in 1972 or 1973.
#69
Posted 05 April 2004 - 14:18
Originally posted by Nanni Dietrich
Allegrini was the name of the sponsor (now Allegrini is back in F. 1 with Minardi), an important italian detergents and car-care products manufacturer. I think the S.M. car was created from a simple March 712.
An other sponsor-name March 712 was the Somalita F2 (bananas brand) , driven by italian Ettore Ricci in 1972 or 1973.
Certainly looks like March 712 sidepods and body sides under the florid coachwork, doesn't it?
(Other "disguised Marches" appeared in F3 - Eifelland, as well as the legendary F1 exploits, mucked about with some 723s and entered them as Eifellands; after the company pulled out of racing they were later called Rheinlands. And the 813 was later rebadged "Euroracing 101" when it won the Euro F3 series....)
#70
Posted 05 April 2004 - 14:55
#71
Posted 05 April 2004 - 15:19
Originally posted by fines
I've often read that the Rheinland was a rebadged Eifelland, but I don't believe that's true. Haven't fully investigated it yet, though.
Marchives.com (which I take as being pretty definitive on matters Bicesterian) and 8W both make the claim, and I'm pretty sure it's also in Lawrence's March book. I would be interested to see any evidence that the Rheinland isn't an ex-Eifelland 723 though!
#72
Posted 05 April 2004 - 15:40
Originally posted by fines
I've often read that the Rheinland was a rebadged Eifelland, but I don't believe that's true. Haven't fully investigated it yet, though.
Looking at http://www.formel3gu...tarterliste.htm
the Eifellands seem to have gone on to Erwin Derichs' team, with Henerici entering Rheinlands. Now, if we can find a '74 F3 race with at least three Eifellands and Rheinlands, one of them can't've an originial Eifelland.... unfortunately on the basis of what I can find on formel3guide.com I can't prove that there were ever enough Eifellands or Rheinlands around to prove that they had to be different cars! - could it be that one Eifelland was retained by Henerici and became the Rheinland-Toyota, and the other was sold off to Derichs?
Neibiberg 5/5/74 shows Ertl in a Rheinland (did not arrive) and Derichs in an Eifelland (did not arrive).
Nurburgring on 18/5/74 -
Ertl DNA in a Rheinland, Derichs in an Eifelland
16/6/74....
Ertl turns up! in a Rheinland, Derichs in an Eifelland - still only two cars, no conclusive proof
14/7/74...
Derichs DNA in the Eifelland, not even an entry for Ertl!
18/8/74 -
only Ertl in a Rheinland.
1/9/74 -
Only Ertl in a Rheinland...
8/9/74 -
Ertl's there and Derichs DNQs the Eifelland
10/11/74
Henning Schmidt in a Rheinland...
#73
Posted 05 April 2004 - 15:55
#74
Posted 05 April 2004 - 16:56
Rallye Racing
The description says (sorry i can not read German)
Chassis:
March 723-Eifelland
(Die Finanzierung erfolgte durch Eigenmittel, durch Zuwendungen von Schmierstoff-und Benzinfirmen sowie maBgeblich durch Günther Hennerici, dem damaligen inhaber von Eifelland-Caravan)
Can anyone traslate ???
#75
Posted 05 April 2004 - 17:09
AFAIK, Eifelland caravans was bought out in '72 and the new owners weren't at all interested in motorsport - I'm not sure if Rheinland was his new caravan business, or just a name he used to annoy the new owners -- though looking at the picture, I guess it's his new firm ;)
#76
Posted 05 April 2004 - 20:08
Abarth 1950 n/a Rumoured dohc v8 for 1950 F2. AMS 1979 ??? More than a passing resemblance to a March 782 -- AMS s own V6 appeared at Misano "where it did not come to the grid as its driver, Piero Necchi, was involved in a fracas with a marshal after practice" (!!!). AMS 1980 ??? "a two-car team was announced for 1980 but failed to materialize" Amweg 1976 AA1 BMW power. Alfred Amweg DNQ'ed on car's only appearance at Hockenheim 76 Balsa 1957-60 ??? "Abortive French project for the second F2 powered by a modified Peugeot engine" later owned by Henri Julien BWA 1966 ??? "the F2 version" (of their F3 car) "did not materialise" Crossle 1972 22F "In 1972 the 22F seemed to promise more" [...] "Brian Nelson drove it to win a formule libre race at Kirkistown, but it did not appear in mainstream F2". DAMW 1957-60 ??? (aka EMW) "There were plans to build cars for the 1957-60 F2 but these were squashed" De Tomaso 1960 ??? 1.5l De Tomaso-Alfa appeared at the Modena GP but crashed in practice. Later appeared as an F1 De Tomaso 1965 ??? "A one litre F2 car shared the erstwhile FJ chassis and was originally presented with a De Tomaso flat-four" DNQed at Rome 64 (Bernabei) and 65 (Ridolfi) Elden 1972 PRH16 Appeared as an FAtlantic for Smiley, but designed for F2. Ensign 1972 F272? "An F2 version (of the F3 car) was built for John Burton" ... "never getting beyond practice in 1972 before it was sold". PIC AVAILABLE. Ginetta 1964 G9 "the space frame G9 F2 project was stopped" GRD 1974-5 Implies that the cars were still available in F2 form but no takers? Jax 1976 ??? No idea if this raced or not! "appeared on the fringe of the 1976 Japanese national scene driven by German Nico Nicole" Kaimann 1974 ??? Opel-powered F2 spaceframe for Koinigg who raced a Surtees instead Kaimann 1976 ??? Spaceframe "following Super Vee lines" for BMW engine, for Quester, failed to appear on a grid Kieft 1952 ?? "One of the original 1950 Keift chassis was adopted for an F2 project in 1952, beefed up and in effect reversed for the Butterworth flat four engine". "Insurmountable problems with engine mounting". Lenham-Hurst ?? P81 an F2 project (P81) failed to take shape after 72, but Hurst was still using the Lenham name. Lola 1972 T242 Update of the T240 for F2 /F3 used only in US FB. Lola 1977 T550 "A new F2 design for 1977" (a lighter T450 basically) - 1 built and Roberto Marazzi gave up after just one DNQ Lotus Mk 7 Completed as the Clairmonte Special Lotus 1968 57 Very well-documented. Monaco 1986 001 The Dywa F1 car, regurgitated Nardi 1952 Mid-engined Lancia-powered F2 car pic in Lawrence. Nemo 1970 ??? F2/3/B multi-purpose car, unsure which formulae it actually raced in? RBS 1957 ??? "An abortive F2 venture by Rene Berte in 1957 he apparently got his special to Reims for the major summer meeting but failed to get it to start". Van Hool 1974 ??? Built in Spain, "owing something to March". Reported to be complete in Summer 74 but never appeared. Van Hool 1976 ??? "Nor did the 1976 car, which had torsion-bar suspension and a BMW engine" De Dryver DNQ ed it for one race at Hockenheim. Vision 1988 ??? F3 car but "F3000 use was in mind" Wagner 1987 ??? We ve discussed this! Willys-Gavea 1966 ??? See unraced F1 cars multi-purpose chassis.
#77
Posted 05 April 2004 - 20:20
Did the Balsa have a wooden chassis ?
#78
Posted 05 April 2004 - 20:26
Originally posted by Richard Neale
I have an unused Nemo rear upright if anyone wants to recreate the car ?????
Did the Balsa have a wooden chassis ?
I think Balsa was a chap called Marcel Balsa who pootled around in various BMW-powered F2s in the early 50s.
#79
Posted 05 April 2004 - 20:36
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#80
Posted 05 April 2004 - 21:10
He may have floated in water.Originally posted by Richard Neale
Ah ! Balsa by name not by nature !
Tis not right.
#81
Posted 05 April 2004 - 21:31
I'm still working on the F2 1.948-1.960 period, so at the moment i only can talk about 1.964-1.984.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by petefenelon
AMS 1979 ??? More than a passing resemblance to a March 782 -- AMS s own V6 appeared at Misano "where it did not come to the grid as its driver, Piero Necchi, was involved in a fracas with a marshal after practice" (!!!). AMS 1980 ??? "a two-car team was announced for 1980 but failed to materialize"[/QUOTE]AMS 279
AMS 80
[QUOTE]Originally posted by petefenelon
Amweg 1976 AA1 BMW power. Alfred Amweg DNQ'ed on car's only appearance at Hockenheim 76[/QUOTE]Amweg AA1
[QUOTE]Originally posted by petefenelon
BWA 1966 ??? "the F2 version" (of their F3 car) "did not materialise"[/QUOTE]BWA F2MA
The italian chassis BWA ran at the F2 Mecanica Argentina with Carlos Reutemann !!!
[QUOTE]Originally posted by petefenelon
Crossle 1972 22F "In 1972 the 22F seemed to promise more" [...] "Brian Nelson drove it to win a formule libre race at Kirkistown, but it did not appear in mainstream F2".[/QUOTE]Crosslé 22F
Brian Nelson with the Crosslé 22F.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by petefenelon
De Tomaso 1965 ??? "A one litre F2 car shared the erstwhile FJ chassis and was originally presented with a De Tomaso flat-four" DNQed at Rome 64 (Bernabei) and 65 (Ridolfi) Jax 1976 ??? No idea if this raced or not! "appeared on the fringe of the 1976 Japanese national scene driven by German Nico Nicole" Kaimann 1974 ??? Opel-powered F2 spaceframe for Koinigg who raced a Surtees instead Kaimann 1976 ??? Spaceframe "following Super Vee lines" for BMW engine, for Quester, failed to appear on a grid Lola 1972 T242 Update of the T240 for F2 /F3 used only in US FB.[/QUOTE]Any pics ????
[QUOTE]Originally posted by petefenelon
Elden 1972 PRH16 Appeared as an FAtlantic for Smiley, but designed for F2. Lenham-Hurst ?? P81 an F2 project (P81) failed to take shape after 72, but Hurst was still using the Lenham name. Nemo 1970 ??? F2/3/B multi-purpose car, unsure which formulae it actually raced in?[/QUOTE]No idea !!!!
[QUOTE]Originally posted by petefenelon
Ginetta 1964 G9 "the space frame G9 F2 project was stopped"[/QUOTE]This is the same i have as G8 (F3)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by petefenelon
GRD 1974-5 Implies that the cars were still available in F2 form but no takers?[/QUOTE]There was a GRD 274....
[QUOTE]Originally posted by petefenelon
Lola 1977 T550 "A new F2 design for 1977" (a lighter T450 basically) - 1 built and Roberto Marazzi gave up after just one DNQ[/QUOTE]
Lola T550
[QUOTE]Originally posted by petefenelon
Van Hool 1974 ??? Built in Spain, "owing something to March". Reported to be complete in Summer 74 but never appeared. Van Hool 1976 ??? "Nor did the 1976 car, which had torsion-bar suspension and a BMW engine" De Dryver DNQ ed it for one race at Hockenheim.[/QUOTE] Wrong !!! The first Van Hool (VHM0001) was built in 1975. (I'm Spaniard !!)
Van Hool VHM0002 1976
Bernard de Dryver with the Van Hool VHM0002 at Hockenheim '76.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by petefenelon
Willys-Gavea 1966 ??? See unraced F1 cars multi-purpose chassis.[/QUOTE]The Willys-Gavea was in fact a Brazilian F3. Never showed as F1 or F2.
#82
Posted 06 April 2004 - 05:38
#83
Posted 06 April 2004 - 08:00
1970 De Sanctis : "Work started on a monocoque F2 project for Jonathan Williams for
1970 but this never appeared"
196? Pallisier WD? : "A Formula Atlantic car which never did appear in the alternative F2
form suggested"
A Titan Mk2 is also listed as F2 project from mid 60's, allegedly never raced
#84
Posted 06 April 2004 - 08:46
Here you have...De Sanctis 1601, 1970 projectOriginally posted by Teapot
David Hodges' book also mentions two project that never took shape in metal :
1970 De Sanctis : "Work started on a monocoque F2 project for Jonathan Williams for
1970 but this never appeared"
No idea !!!!Originally posted by Teapot
196? Pallisier WD? : "A Formula Atlantic car which never did appear in the alternative F2
form suggested"
A Titan Mk2 is also listed as F2 project from mid 60's, allegedly never raced
Rafa
#85
Posted 06 April 2004 - 08:48
#86
Posted 06 April 2004 - 08:55
#87
Posted 06 April 2004 - 09:56
Was'nt the Safir RJ02 the ex Token RJ02 raced by Trimmer at the 1975 Race of Champions ???Originally posted by Cirrus
The Safir RJ02 (in reality a Motul M1 with different engine bay and bodywork) tested at Goodwood, and practised at the August Silverstone race in 1975, driven by Patrick Neve. It didn't start the race - I can't remember if it was due to an engine problem, or a simple DNQ.
The same type reference (RJ02) to a Motul M1 revised by Ray Jessop ????
Motul = Rondel = Ron Dennis + Neil Trundle. Designer Ray Jessop.
Token= Ron Dennis F1 for Rondel. Designer Ray Jessop.
Safir = John Thorpe. Designer Ray Jessop.
BTW, Any Safir F2 pic ???
Many thanks,
Rafa
#88
Posted 06 April 2004 - 10:56
Incidentally, Safir ws run by Peter Thorpe (not John), and Alan England at that time. I'm still in touch with Alan, so I'll see if he has a picture.
#89
Posted 06 April 2004 - 11:02
You're reason, the Safir F2 was also RJ02, look here:Originally posted by Cirrus
I may have got the type number wrong for the F2 Safir - I think I have a copy of the programme at home, so I'll check. I don't have a picture of the F2 Safir, but it looked like a slightly bigger version of the F3 car.
Incidentally, Safir ws run by Peter Thorpe (not John), and Alan England at that time. I'm still in touch with Alan, so I'll see if he has a picture.
1975 Silverstone F2
Thanks,
Rafa
#90
Posted 06 April 2004 - 18:45
Originally posted by Reyna:
Motul = Rondel = Ron Dennis + Neil Trundle. Designer Ray Jessop.
Token= Ron Dennis F1 for Rondel. Designer Ray Jessop.
Safir = John Thorpe. Designer Ray Jessop.
Wasn't the Token name derived from the two principal financial backers: Tony Vlassopulo and Kenneth Grob? (Bit OT as it wasn't F2, I guess).
#91
Posted 07 April 2004 - 17:05
#92
Posted 07 April 2004 - 17:22
Another problem of this F2 period was that a Lot of single-seater were built, same chassis, as F Atlantic or 2 ...
So you can see at the 70s Motor Shows a Royale, for exemple, FA/2 that never raced as F2 . As easy as to change the engine you can get an F2 or FA.
All the FA could be F2 ???
Rafa
#93
Posted 18 November 2004 - 06:20
Maser Bora Group 4 (from other thread, thanks)
XJ13
Ferrari? At Pebble Beach this year.
Thanks,
Cal.
#94
Posted 18 November 2004 - 11:08
Frank Kleinig's Hudson after conversion to single seater for the 1954 Australian Grand Prix at Southport. It never raced again. This photo was taken immediately prior to dismantling to return the body etc to the Maserati whence it came and rebulding of the car into its more or less original form by Tom Roberts
#95
Posted 18 November 2004 - 20:59
John
#96
Posted 18 November 2004 - 21:44
#97
Posted 18 November 2004 - 21:52
Originally posted by JohnS
How about the Williams 6-wheeler? Don't have a pic I'm afraid. Anyone else have one?
This is one from Racer.Demon's Forix 8w article about them... there are others...
#98
Posted 18 November 2004 - 22:19
Carles.
#99
Posted 18 November 2004 - 22:36
Cal.
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#100
Posted 18 November 2004 - 22:42
And I parked my car in that precise spot only yesterday!
Ray - I think Cal was asking about the 1950s-looking single seater...