According to AP, John DeLorean has died at the age of 80. Quite a character in his day...
John DeLorean dies aged 80
Started by
jessijo
, Mar 20 2005 21:52
33 replies to this topic
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#2
JForce
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Posted 20 March 2005 - 21:56
He's not dead, he just hit 88mph.....RIP John, and thanks for that car...
#3
330R
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Posted 20 March 2005 - 22:09
Have some coke and a smile
RIP
RIP
#4
Dudley
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Posted 20 March 2005 - 22:25
A race in the DMC in GT4 shall be done in his honour ;)
#5
stuartbrs
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Posted 20 March 2005 - 23:12
Honour?? How can any of you toast to that man.. 
He was a crook.
He was a crook.
#6
jonpollak
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Posted 20 March 2005 - 23:46
Ahh yes but he and his cocane kept Colin Chapman afloat for a season or 2 didn't he?
(and did they ever find all that blow?)
I bet the folks in TNF could shed a few lights on the story.
Might be worth the mods moving this one....
Jp
(and did they ever find all that blow?)
I bet the folks in TNF could shed a few lights on the story.
Might be worth the mods moving this one....
Jp
#7
RJL
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Posted 21 March 2005 - 00:06
I hope that as time passes John Z will be better remembered for the neat car rather than the scandal. When you stop & think about it, the first is a historically noteworthy achievement, the second almost a necessity in order to achieve the first.
#8
zak
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Posted 21 March 2005 - 03:28
I heard he wanted to make it to 88 but his flux capacitor gave out.
#9
Mac Lark
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Posted 21 March 2005 - 03:57
Originally posted by stuartbrs
Honour?? How can any of you toast to that man..
He was a crook.
#10
TooTall
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Posted 21 March 2005 - 06:32
His larceny started early. He pilfered the name GTO and applied it to a Pontiac! Pretty good car in its own right actually, in the beginning at least.
#11
RTH
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Posted 21 March 2005 - 06:57
Prof. Garel Rees this morning described him as a major player in the US motor industry, - but ultimately a flawed one.
#12
JohnS
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Posted 21 March 2005 - 20:42
Originally posted by stuartbrs
Honour?? How can any of you toast to that man..
He was a crook.
Well put.
#13
karlcars
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Posted 24 March 2005 - 16:34
Though I may be outvoted, I believe it's fair to say that John wasn't a crook. He faced trials several times over aspects of his activities and was not convicted.
He was indeed a titan of the American industry in his day but struggled to establish and run a car company of his own. Still, he got a fair way down the road to making it happen. Others might never have tried.
My thoughts on John and his career should be posted next week on Just-Auto.com, where I write about car industry matters.
RIP, John. You were a big help to me more than once and I owe you a lot.
He was indeed a titan of the American industry in his day but struggled to establish and run a car company of his own. Still, he got a fair way down the road to making it happen. Others might never have tried.
My thoughts on John and his career should be posted next week on Just-Auto.com, where I write about car industry matters.
RIP, John. You were a big help to me more than once and I owe you a lot.
#14
Ruairidh
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Posted 24 March 2005 - 16:46
Originally posted by RJL
I hope that as time passes John Z will be better remembered for the neat car rather than the scandal. When you stop & think about it, the first is a historically noteworthy achievement, the second almost a necessity in order to achieve the first.
I think you have a point here. And folks need to remember that very very few entrepreneurs become successful without at some stage involvement in activities that are somewhat dubious. Those who become successful and respected generally are the ones whose idea sold AND who were not caught.........
#15
ensign14
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Posted 24 March 2005 - 18:25
Like OJ.Originally posted by karlcars
Though I may be outvoted, I believe it's fair to say that John wasn't a crook. He faced trials several times over aspects of his activities and was not convicted.
#16
Racers Edge
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Posted 01 April 2005 - 23:01
Hello Karl...
I don't know if you had anything to do with this PVR engine used in the DeLorean, I can only tell you it was 100% mistake..the car was KOOL, it was different, but a real pig in performance. I sold maybe 50 of them after he went broke. (@ $9,500. each) And our conversion team in Florida, were one of the first to offer twin intercooled turbo's/ suspension lowering and paint..but the engine usually just blew up, after the second day of use. it was not designed for turbos, but we were looking for ways to sell these cars, at a price of $30,000. less that orginial retail, we still had a hard time to make $500.- profit on each car.... But it did look KOOL. ( all show/ no GO)
Too bad... with a better engine, even the old BOP V-8 ( Rover engine to the English) would have made a real performer. The engine sounded like a girl, even when you took off the exhaust it was a joke...The BOP V-8 that I think Delorean had a hand in? ... would have made the car sell...it seems that it was a bad call for that engine along with ideas to be a clone of Henry Ford eg: Model "T" one in every driveway...he was lost on these concepts...
The Delorean DMC12 will never be a classic in my eyes...terrible car. But then again who would ever thought the Edsel would be a cult car.
off the site: www.Just-auto.com
________________________________________________________________________
I was a consultant to DeLorean in his immediate post-GM years, when he set up his consulting organisation and took his first steps toward the creation of his own auto company. Finding a suitable engine for his sports car wasn’t easy. He had high hopes of Comotor, a joint Citroën-NSU enterprise that was to make rotary engines, but it never reached critical mass. Neither was a Citroën four - the engine in his first prototype - the answer. The PRV V-6 that was ultimately used was in fact a good solution, meeting US emissions requirements as it did in its Volvo version.
________________________________________________________________________
I don't know if you had anything to do with this PVR engine used in the DeLorean, I can only tell you it was 100% mistake..the car was KOOL, it was different, but a real pig in performance. I sold maybe 50 of them after he went broke. (@ $9,500. each) And our conversion team in Florida, were one of the first to offer twin intercooled turbo's/ suspension lowering and paint..but the engine usually just blew up, after the second day of use. it was not designed for turbos, but we were looking for ways to sell these cars, at a price of $30,000. less that orginial retail, we still had a hard time to make $500.- profit on each car.... But it did look KOOL. ( all show/ no GO)
Too bad... with a better engine, even the old BOP V-8 ( Rover engine to the English) would have made a real performer. The engine sounded like a girl, even when you took off the exhaust it was a joke...The BOP V-8 that I think Delorean had a hand in? ... would have made the car sell...it seems that it was a bad call for that engine along with ideas to be a clone of Henry Ford eg: Model "T" one in every driveway...he was lost on these concepts...
The Delorean DMC12 will never be a classic in my eyes...terrible car. But then again who would ever thought the Edsel would be a cult car.
off the site: www.Just-auto.com
________________________________________________________________________
I was a consultant to DeLorean in his immediate post-GM years, when he set up his consulting organisation and took his first steps toward the creation of his own auto company. Finding a suitable engine for his sports car wasn’t easy. He had high hopes of Comotor, a joint Citroën-NSU enterprise that was to make rotary engines, but it never reached critical mass. Neither was a Citroën four - the engine in his first prototype - the answer. The PRV V-6 that was ultimately used was in fact a good solution, meeting US emissions requirements as it did in its Volvo version.
________________________________________________________________________
#17
tkotw
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Posted 26 June 2006 - 23:01
Originally posted by stuartbrs
Honour?? How can any of you toast to that man..
He was a crook.
Why do you think he was a crook? Did he make illegal business actions?
I'm very interested in this topic so I would be glad If you could clarify that
#18
David M. Kane
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Posted 26 June 2006 - 23:13
Huh? Beside the "Coke" deal, he lied, defrauded the Irish Government...did you follow the trial?
#19
David M. Kane
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Posted 26 June 2006 - 23:39
80M Pounds of public money from Northern Ireland AND 12.5M Pounds worth of Cocaine...sorry those serious numbers!
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#20
cabianca
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Posted 27 June 2006 - 00:44
Believe there's another racing connection here. Wasn't Jaroslav Juhan, one-time Guatemalan Porsche distributor and Carrera Panamericana class winner in a Porsche 550, supposedly the bag man who got Chunky and DeLorean's money from Ireland to Switzerland.
#21
Frank S
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Posted 27 June 2006 - 05:58
Originally posted by karlcars
Though I may be outvoted, I believe it's fair to say that John wasn't a crook. He faced trials several times over aspects of his activities and was not convicted ...
I wonder how they convinced him to devote several weeks of his valuable time to Public Service, refurbishing po' folks' houses (I witnessed).
I believe he was convicted, but with liberal application of shyster wiles and thespian contrition, he may have been allowed to withdraw his plea of guilty. It's a hazard among well-to-do sociopaths that they never manage to absorb the full benefits of getting caught (I witnessed).
--
Frank S
#22
Ray Bell
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Posted 27 June 2006 - 06:38
Originally posted by TooTall
His larceny started early. He pilfered the name GTO and applied it to a Pontiac! Pretty good car in its own right actually, in the beginning at least.
Didn't Ferrari steal that name first?
#23
Sharman
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Posted 27 June 2006 - 10:42
Why should it be stolen Ray? All it means is Gran Turismo Omologato, there were many 250 GT's before the GTO and in those days and earlier there were often squabbles among entrants as to whether a car was legal or not, hence prototype class. I presume that the GTO was never questioned because it was just that
JF
JF
#24
David M. Kane
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Posted 27 June 2006 - 11:28
Sharman, you are right, GTO was an FIA term not a Ferrari term; therefore I feel it was in the public domain. Clever move by John and very effective especially on this Washington, D.C. area teenage...instant access to suburban virgins (you got to get 'em in the car first.
John should never have left GM...that was his first mistake; but he just couldn't operate in the box.
...and yes he was a crook, a very big crook, so was Chapman; both of them got caught up in the nearness of potential huge sucess and as a result did some pretty stupid stuff.
John should never have left GM...that was his first mistake; but he just couldn't operate in the box.
...and yes he was a crook, a very big crook, so was Chapman; both of them got caught up in the nearness of potential huge sucess and as a result did some pretty stupid stuff.
#25
tkotw
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Posted 27 June 2006 - 11:43
Originally posted by David M. Kane
Huh? Beside the "Coke" deal, he lied, defrauded the Irish Government...did you follow the trial?
Well, the "Coke" deal was a complete fabrication...DeLorean only took part in it because the FBI threatened the life of his daugher Kathryn. The jurors felt the same and founded him not guilty.
The book "The DeLorean Tapes" shows also the innocence of DeLorean in this case.
DeLorean was also acquitted in the Fraud Trial in 1986. I don't know why but they did acquit him. If someone knows more details about this trial please disclose them
#26
kayemod
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Posted 27 June 2006 - 12:41
Originally posted by David M. Kane
John DeLorean...and yes he was a crook, a very big crook, so was Chapman; both of them got caught up in the nearness of potential huge sucess and as a result did some pretty stupid stuff.
A good summation. Premature death, almost certainly brought on by the stress of his DeLorean involvement, was probably a good career move for Chapman. Had he lived, he would unquestionably have received a lengthy prison sentence, which would probably have meant the end of Group Lotus. As it was, although proven as much as a dead man can ever be, to have been one of the main instigators of a massive fraud, his reputation was not much tainted by the Belfast trial, and he's really only remembered today as the engineering genius and visionary that he undoubtedly was.
#27
Sharman
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Posted 27 June 2006 - 15:30
It was a very convenient death wasn't it??
#28
David M. Kane
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Posted 27 June 2006 - 15:53
Mario swears Colin is alive and living in South America. I believe it was Sally Stokes who told me that...
#29
kayemod
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Posted 27 June 2006 - 16:55
Originally posted by David M. Kane
Mario swears Colin is alive and living in South America. I believe it was Sally Stokes who told me that...
Sorry, this is a very English joke, but if it had been Doris Stokes, we might have believed you.
#30
MoMurray
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Posted 28 June 2006 - 01:49
Originally posted by David M. Kane
Huh? Beside the "Coke" deal, he lied, defrauded the Irish Government...did you follow the trial?
Merely as a point of clarification and without offering an opinion on his guilt or innocence, it was the British Government who were involved, not the Irish.
Mo.
#31
Ray Bell
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Posted 28 June 2006 - 02:06
Originally posted by Sharman
Why should it be stolen Ray? All it means is Gran Turismo Omologato, there were many 250 GT's before the GTO and in those days and earlier there were often squabbles among entrants as to whether a car was legal or not, hence prototype class. I presume that the GTO was never questioned because it was just that
The name 'GTO' was first applied as a model name, to the best of my knowledge, to the Ferrari 250 GTO...
The very basis for giving the car that name was the supposition that it was homologated. I don't know how true the stories are, but it was said that the FIA folk checking its homologation qualifications were led into a warehouse and counted whatever number it was, say 125 of them. Then they were taken for cheese and wine, and then on to another warehouse to count the balance of the cars required to qualify. In this case I'm guessing it was 250.
In the interim, Ferrari workers are said to have moved the 125 cars across for the purpose of deception...
If that's true, then Ferrari actually 'stole' the right to the name. The move to the prototype class would surely indicate it was true?
#32
cosworth bdg
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Posted 28 June 2006 - 02:11
Yes it was Northern Ireland , all very British , the Republic are the inocent party with this one................................................................Originally posted by MoMurray
Merely as a point of clarification and without offering an opinion on his guilt or innocence, it was the British Government who were involved, not the Irish.
Mo.
#33
cosworth bdg
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Posted 28 June 2006 - 02:53
It still is a very good car , do not forget it is Australian made.......................................................................Originally posted by TooTall
His larceny started early. He pilfered the name GTO and applied it to a Pontiac! Pretty good car in its own right actually, in the beginning at least.
#34
ensign14
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Posted 28 June 2006 - 05:45
Other than the Republic's Government was smart enough to see through DeLorean and turn him down. Unlike a less intelligent Government.Originally posted by cosworth bdg
Yes it was Northern Ireland , all very British , the Republic are the inocent party with this one................................................................
