'Barn-find' Cooper
#1
Posted 28 March 2006 - 18:08
Anyone able to fill in is history?
Advertisement
#2
Posted 28 March 2006 - 18:28
Originally posted by Alan Cox
Spotted as an entry in the forthcoming H & H Syon Park auction. The auctioneers' description is a little 'sketchy'.
Anyone able to fill in is history?
I was thinking about posting that too. Eight exhaust pipes?
#3
Posted 28 March 2006 - 18:40
#4
Posted 28 March 2006 - 19:32
I recall as a spectator that the effect of the wind/breeze was critical, especially as the end of the course, which was essentially a flat out sprint, included the very long sweeping bend, plus the surface was none too smooth.
Roger Lund.
#5
Posted 28 March 2006 - 19:33
RL
#6
Posted 28 March 2006 - 19:48
#7
Posted 28 March 2006 - 20:10
(no where near my books at the moment)
#8
Posted 28 March 2006 - 20:52
#9
Posted 29 March 2006 - 07:47
#10
Posted 29 March 2006 - 07:58
#11
Posted 29 March 2006 - 11:57
The timing does fit
#12
Posted 30 March 2006 - 08:17
#13
Posted 30 March 2006 - 08:37
As far as I know, Maurice Mackie ran his T51 with a Climax engine. The GM V8 went in at an unknown later date (if this car was Harrison's, 1964 would be the date for the transfusion)
#14
Posted 30 March 2006 - 08:49
I was looking through some old, loaned, race programmes last night for something else, and in trhe 1961 British Empire Trophy, Intercontintal regs, at Silverstone, featuring a Scarab on the cover, there is an entry of a Cooper for Tony Marsh by Fred Tuck cars with an engine size of 2800cc. The other British entrants would all seem to have been running 2.5 litre FPFs, clearly too soon for Fred to have an Indy 2.75 FPF so one wonders what the 2.8litre engine was. Daimler perhaps? No notes on the prog to show he dns or dnf.
RL
#15
Posted 30 March 2006 - 08:56
#16
Posted 30 March 2006 - 10:25
RL
#17
Posted 30 March 2006 - 12:39
Tuck bought and sold Coopers and didn't always hold onto them for long
(At one stage he was advertising seven Cooper-Climax single-seaters )
#18
Posted 30 March 2006 - 12:56
#19
Posted 30 March 2006 - 19:40
Originally posted by David McKinney
The Autosport preview also says 2800cc, no engine named, but their report of the race describes it as a 2.5 Climax
A 2800cc version of the Coventry-Climax FPF was used in the short-lived 3-litre "Inter-Continental Formula" I seem to recall. Motor Sport is not specific about the capacities of the entry in the 1961 International Trophy.
You can be pretty sure that an SP250 Daimler engine would never have been a suitable replacement for an FPF unless you had no money!
#21
Posted 31 March 2006 - 10:47
The poor old thing has led a rugged life. My money says Chev, but who made the box? Colotti? Doesn't look like a C5S.
#22
Posted 31 March 2006 - 11:31
I think those destinctive alloy rocker box covers which were standard on the Daimler might be a give away.
That V8 1959-64 in the SP250 and 2.5 litre version of the Mk 2 Jaguar saloon 2548cc a feeble 140 BHP in standard road going form
#23
Posted 31 March 2006 - 12:58
This one's a wedge head.
#24
Posted 31 March 2006 - 13:13
#25
Posted 31 March 2006 - 14:46
Originally posted by Terry Walker
Surely the Daimler V8 was a hemi, with the plugs down the centre of the rocker cover?
Yes that's true.
#26
Posted 01 April 2006 - 02:19
#27
Posted 01 April 2006 - 07:40
#28
Posted 01 April 2006 - 09:32
#29
Posted 01 April 2006 - 16:42
#30
Posted 14 July 2006 - 17:50
According to the auctioneers, Stephen says "The biggest giveaway were the dents in the nose cone. Dad created those in the 60s putting the car in his transporter and they're still there after all this time. We reckon the car has hardly turned a wheel since he sold it all those years ago."
He also believes that they still have the chassis plate which may confirm whether it is an ex-Jack Brabham car.
#31
Posted 14 July 2006 - 20:39
Originally posted by Alan Cox
... the chassis plate which may confirm whether it is an ex-Jack Brabham car.
Sorry Alan, but ....
DCN
#32
Posted 14 July 2006 - 21:52
#33
Posted 14 July 2006 - 23:33
#34
Posted 15 July 2006 - 06:45
#35
Posted 15 July 2006 - 07:14
In any case what possible use is a chassis plate in a drawer from a car you once owned 30 years ago ? Its a daft practice.
#36
Posted 15 July 2006 - 10:12
Not at allOriginally posted by RTH
In any case what possible use is a chassis plate in a drawer from a car you once owned 30 years ago ? Its a daft practice.
You later buy any old unidentifiable pile of rubbish, attach your old plate and Voila! Instant provenance and a vastly improved resale value
#37
Posted 15 July 2006 - 10:17
#38
Posted 15 July 2006 - 10:43
How about someone selling an Brabham chassis plate from a long-ago-wrecked BT18 on Ebay expressely so someone can attach it to a 'mystery' car.
Or someone selling two blank SCCA log books on Ebay for exactly the same reason.
Or buying some Fred Opert correspondence on Ebay so you can fake up his letterhead well enough for a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy to look totally convincing. OK, the last one is pure speculation but the other two are true. You can see how easily someone could put together an utterly convincing provenance backed up by letters, log books and other paperwork. I would of course add a list of previous owners that consisted entirely of people who had (coincidentally) since died and a list of results from SCCA races in the log book so obscure that nobody can check the results.
Depressing enough now?
Allen
#39
Posted 15 July 2006 - 12:30
#41
Posted 15 July 2006 - 17:37
How about someone selling an Brabham chassis plate from a long-ago-wrecked BT18 on Ebay expressely so someone can attach it to a 'mystery' car.
Hey, I got a couple of those... I am planning a retirement sale.
#42
Posted 05 January 2007 - 22:33
Roger Lund..
#43
Posted 05 January 2007 - 22:56
Well, it's easier to make a chassis plate than a car...Originally posted by T54
Hey, I got a couple of those... I am planning a retirement sale.
...but if you also write the definitive history of a marque you'll know where the gaps are.
#44
Posted 14 November 2008 - 19:28
With regard to its original history we are still given the impression this was the first ever T43 although we have not turned up anything definate as yet and any assistance would be appreciated, we do however know that prior to my father owning the car it competed in Formula 1 races driven by Geoff Richardson whilst fitted with an Alta engine. We also know the car was not new when aquired by Mr Richardson so the original history still needs to be unearthed.
The comments about the removal of chassis plates does appear to suggest some planned profiteering what should be understood that in period when these plates were removed for whatever whether intential or accidental was not unusual and not something anyone would have found unusual as these cars were surplus to requirements and not of significant value.
I do appreciate there has been an amount of plate duplication in recent years but this did not occur in the 60's.
For the record we bought the car for family history purposes not to make a profit by creating a car we do feel that if the car does have genuine history it should be known as the T43 made a great leap in the way Formula 1 changed. We have not traced the chassis plate and the chassis which has been stripped to bare metal shows no sign of numbers stamped or even rivet holes from a plate. It has been sugested that this along with various signs of modification could indicate this was infact the prototype chassis.
Any help would be appreciated.
#45
Posted 14 November 2008 - 20:24
Have you caught up with the following thread yet?
http://forums.autosp...y=&pagenumber=1
#46
Posted 17 November 2008 - 13:04
Originally posted by Hepster
Great to see so much interest in my Father David Hepworth's old Cooper which is now undergoing restoration and will be completed early next year.
With regard to its original history we are still given the impression this was the first ever T43 although we have not turned up anything definate as yet and any assistance would be appreciated, we do however know that prior to my father owning the car it competed in Formula 1 races driven by Geoff Richardson whilst fitted with an Alta engine. We also know the car was not new when aquired by Mr Richardson so the original history still needs to be unearthed.
The comments about the removal of chassis plates does appear to suggest some planned profiteering what should be understood that in period when these plates were removed for whatever whether intential or accidental was not unusual and not something anyone would have found unusual as these cars were surplus to requirements and not of significant value.
I do appreciate there has been an amount of plate duplication in recent years but this did not occur in the 60's.
For the record we bought the car for family history purposes not to make a profit by creating a car we do feel that if the car does have genuine history it should be known as the T43 made a great leap in the way Formula 1 changed. We have not traced the chassis plate and the chassis which has been stripped to bare metal shows no sign of numbers stamped or even rivet holes from a plate. It has been sugested that this along with various signs of modification could indicate this was infact the prototype chassis.
Any help would be appreciated.
I don't think the lack of a chassis plate is that significant as quite a few cars left Surbiton without one.