1935 European Championship

So, perhaps because of some difficulties with the details of the English language, my understanding now is, that the 1935 European Championship was based on the results of all seven European Grande Epreuves, in particular including the French GP?

uechtel, that certainly seems to be the obvious conclusion from all the wonderful material presented by Hans.

Neil

An updated version of the 1935 Championship can be found here http://www.kolumbus....ellman/cha5.htm

The 1950 World Championship was composed of seven races (from 300 to 500 km), but included the Indy 500, deserted by european drivers.

So, in essence, the championship was composed of six races.

Therefore, we can say that the 1935 European Championship, with seven G.P. (all of 500 km), was even more "probative" or "convincing" than the 1950 "World" Championship...

Sorry for my poor English..

I believe that the 1935 CSI regulations for the European Automobile Championship should have remained valid over the years until 1939, when a change was considered but not implemented. If someone has knowledge that regulation changes took place for the 1936 European Championship, it would be worthwhile to let us know here. I do not have the time now to read my way through 1936-38 reports, so we need to rely on others to tell us.

An updated version of the 1935 Championship can be found here http://www.kolumbus....ellman/cha5.htm

This is going to be a long post, but bear with me!

 

Having identified the 'penalty point' system used in the 1938 EC to determine points scored for shared drives, I've now applied what I learnt to the 1935 table. It does solve several of the discrepancies with which we struggled before - although there are still one or two to sort out. But I'll come to that later.

 

To recap, here are the scores as issued by the CSI. In brackets are the scores as displayed on Golden Era in the link above, worked out on the accepted method, with points given only to the driver who took the start in the car.

 

In addition to the penalty points as detailed in the 1938 thread, I have identified what I believe are two further rules:

 

When a reserve driver who did not take the original start takes over a car, any points earned by that car are assigned only to the original 'entitled' driver.

 

If a driver who took the original start, having already  retired his own car, takes over another car and subsequently retires again BOTH drivers receive four points, no matter what distance the car has covered.

 

Caracciola  16 (GE 17)
Fagioli     22 (GE 22)
Brauchitsch 31 (GE 34)
Dreyfus     35 (GE 36)
Nuvolari 37 (GE 35)
Stuck   37 (GE 36)
Chiron      40 (GE 40)
Varzi       40 (GE 39)

 

All the above drivers - except Chiron - were involved in at least one shared drive during 1935. Fagioli and Dreyfus were involved in two and Varzi in three.

 

Here are the details of the various driver changes.

 

Monaco: Trossi (DNS) relieved Nuvolari on lap 39 of 100 but retired on lap 53. Nuvolari  scores 5 points as per GE.

 

France: Rosemeyer (retired on lap 11 of 40) relieved Varzi some time after lap 20 of 40 and finished 5th, covering 35 laps of 40. Varzi scores 5 points [4 + 1 penalty] (GE4) Rosemeyer scores 7 [4 + 3 penalties] (GE6)

 

Belgium: von Brauchitsch (retired on lap 15 of 34) replaced Fagioli on lap 16 or 17 of 34 and finished 2nd. Fagioli scores 5 points [2 + 3 penalties] (GE2) Von Brauchitsch scores 6 points [2 + 4 penalties] (GE6)

 

Belgium: Marinoni (DNS) relieved Dreyfus some time after half-distance and finished 4th, completing all 34 laps. Dreyfus scores 4 points as per GE

 

Germany: zu Leiningen (DNS) relieved Varzi on lap 14 of 22 and finished 8th, completing 21 of 22 laps. Varzi scores 4 points as per GE

 

Germany: Delius (DNS) relieved Mays on lap 11(?) of 22 and retires on lap 12 of 22. Mays scores 5 points as per GE.

 

Switzerland: Pietsch (DNS) relieved Stuck on lap ?? of 70  and finished 11th, completing 57 laps of 70. Stuck scores 4 points as per GE.

 

Italy: Nuvolari (retired on lap 45 of 73) relieved Dreyfus at some point after lap 45 and finished 2nd. Dreyfus scores 3 points [2 + 1 penalty] (GE2) Nuvolari scores 7 [2 + 5 penalties] (GE5)

 

Italy: Rosemeyer (retired on lap 19 of 73) relieved Pietsch before lap 30 of 73 and finished 3rd. Pietsch scores 6 [3 + 3 penalties] (GE3) Rosemeyer scores 7 [3 + 4 penalties] (GE6)

 

Italy: Fagioli (retired on lap 11 of 73} relieved Caracciola after lap 30 of 73 and retired again on lap 41 of 73. Caracciola scores 4 points (GE5) Fagioli scores 4 points (GE7)

 

Spain: Pietsch (DNS) relieved Varzi on lap 2 of 30 and retired on lap 25 of 30. Varzi scores 4 points (GE4)

 

So, what does all that mean when compared to the Golden Era listing?

 

Caracciola's points total is now 16 - as per the CSI listing. (One point fewer in Italy)
Fagioli's points total remains 22 - as per both lists - but the distribution is different to that shown on GE: 3 more in Belgium, 3 fewer in Italy.
Von Brauchitsch's totals still differ between 31 (CSI) and 34 (GE)
Dreyfus' points total is now 37 - as against 35 (CSI) or 36 (GE) (One extra point in Italy)
Nuvolari's points total is now 35 - as per the CSI listing. (Two extra points in Italy)
Stuck's points total is now 37 - as per the CSI listing. (One extra point in Switzerland)
Varzi's points total is now 40 - as per the CSI listing. (One extra point in France)

 

Rosemeyer - not on the CSI list - now has 41 points rather than the 39 on the GE list, thus returning him to the obscurity of those who had scored more than 40.

 

So, we now have only two discrepancies: von Brauchitsch and Dreyfus.

 

There seems to be no possible way to reconcile von Brauchitsch's score to 31 so, as Leif suggested a long time ago in the first post of the thread, I can only assume it's a typo - unless he was incorrectly allocated one penalty point rather than four in Belgium.

 

Equally, there seems to be no way to improve Dreyfus' score either.
 

While searching for something else in the May 1935 issue of "Motor Sport" I found some interesting passages (p40):

 

"A European Championship. on note last month

Following on my note anent the suggestion of the R.A.C.I. that the European Championship for drivers should be revived, I now hear that the German Sporting Commission has put up the idea of holding the championship for cars once more, based on the results of the national G.P. races. Before submitting it to the A.I.A.C.R., the German people asked the opinion of the R.A.C.I., and the latter having approved, it may presumably be taken for granted that the idea will be accepted, at the Meeting of the International Sporting Commission in Paris on May 8th."

 

So if it´s true then the driver´s championship would have been not - as usually is written - pushed by the Germans, but by the Italians instead!?

 

The initial suggestion was made by Carl Otto Fritsch at the December 3rd 1934 CSI meeting in Paris. The CSI deputed the Italians to work out the details and they circulated their proposals in early March 1935. The revival of the EC was announced at the May 8th 1935 CSI meeting.

 

Things often got lost in translation by the time they reached England ...

Il Littoriale 4 dec. 1934 p.5: "Il Comitato ha preso altresi conoscenza di una proposta dell'ONS di Germania relativa all'istituzione per l'anno 1935 di una classifica internazionale dell marche e dei piloti partecipanti ai Grandi Premi Nazionali e le corse internazionali" = The Committee took also aware of proposal from the ONS of Germany relating to the institution for the year 1935 of an international ranking of the manufacturers and drivers participating in the Grand nacional Prizes and international competitions 

Things often got lost in translation by the time they reached England ...

 

Perhaps one of the greatest understatements ever on TNF....

 

Thanks

Dumb Thought: Now that we are aware of the existence of at least some of the AIACR bulletins surviving and are in the FIA archives, thanks to the pages devoted to the LSR efforts, what would be the possibility of some of that material being available to shed some light on this topic? Or even, heaven forbid, 1939?

We can live in hope, Don. I have previously asked the RAC Library whether they hold CSI meeting minutes. They don't - probably, I suspect, because those minutes would likely have been sent to the home addresses of the delegates. The British representatives in the 1930s were the two Colonels: O'Gorman and Lindsay Lloyd. Lindsay Lloyd died in 1940 and O'Gorman in 1958, so unless their personal papers were preserved - which I think is unlikely - those will be long gone ...