Funny how something will trigger the brain cells.
Was viewing the trailer on this forum concerning "The World's Fastest Indian" when the goggle images suggested that we perhaps begin documenting these wonderful objects that are an art form in themselves.
A search for titles with the word "Goggles" produced zero.
My favorites are the mid sixties type that always seemed to have "duct" tape placed somewhere on the glass. Will try to dig up some photographs.
Henry
Goggles
Started by
HistoricMustang
, Nov 11 2005 21:49
29 replies to this topic
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#2
WDH74
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 01:47
Y'know, Henry, I was thinking the same thing. I was leafing through Michael Oliver's Lotus 49 book, and on page 59 there's a photo of Graham Hill sitting in a corner of the garages at Watkins Glen doing "essential goggle maintenance" according to the caption. And you can clearly see the big strip of black electrical tape (or whatever they were using) across the tops of the goggles. And, moving through the book, there's lots of other drivers with the same bits of sticky tape blocking off the upper third of the goggles. Why? Some sort of sun-blocking? Or was it like horse blinders, where the driver wouldn't be distracted by what's going on above the pavement?
-Wm.
-Wm.
#3
MPea3
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 02:55
My own experience with bikes was that masking off the top part of goggles enabled one to shield the sun with slight changes in head angle. One can do a similar thing by masking off the upper part of a shield on a full face helmet. Even with the small distance between the eyes and the goggle or shield, it makes a big difference. My guess is that's the reason they did it.
#4
f1steveuk
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 09:14
I was staggered by the range of goggles available at one time (old catlogues etc). When I started racing, full face helmet, but with a peak, like Ronnie Peterson. Now of course just try and get a full face helmet that has a visor capable of taking a peak, so I went for the tape across the top of the visor sun strip route. Then when I started doing historic events, the range of goggles is very very limited, but I'd still go for a sun strip on the googles even with a peak on my open face helmet. I always thought the googles I used when demonstrating a 1904 Grand Prix Mercedes looked to modern, but it was all I could get. Now I live (most of the time) in France I have found some superb driving goggles, very period with interchangable lenses of clear, semi and dark tint.
But in summary, yep a very forgotten subject. Anybody no some make names from the 60s?
But in summary, yep a very forgotten subject. Anybody no some make names from the 60s?
#5
Ian McKean
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 09:51
I seem to remember that the RAF Mk VIII goggles were very popular in the 40's and 50's. But who they were made by and who they were bought from I have no idea. I doubt you could go to the nearest RAF base and buy them.
#6
David McKinney
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 10:07
I bought mine from a motorcycle shop
#7
f1steveuk
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 10:15
I know that Grand Prix Racewear do the Halcyon range, very first world war Sopwith pilot looking, but they are laminated glass I think, and it made me nervous having any sort of glass that close to my eyes. Antique Automobiles do some 60s looking ones, or did, but I have never really seen the Clark type ones anywhere, and I'd like some!
#8
Teapot
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 10:38
I remember a picture of Jim Clark with some sort of tape sticked directly on his face and forehead to provide a little protection from the pressure and friction made on his skin by the edges of the goggles:
was he the only to use such little expedient? And how big was that issue? (I'm asking those who raced, since the only pair of goggles I have ever worn are swimming goggles - and I can't stand them! - )
was he the only to use such little expedient? And how big was that issue? (I'm asking those who raced, since the only pair of goggles I have ever worn are swimming goggles - and I can't stand them! - )
#9
bill moffat
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 10:56
The ultimate "goggle" photoograph must surely be Colin Waldeck's study of Graham Hill at Monaco in 1964. This is my favourite motor racing photograph bar none. A copy hangs in the National Portrait Gallery in London and (with the gracious permission of my wife) above my fireplace.
GH's goggles are heavily taped whilst, if you look carefully, you will also see the spare pair hanging around his neck, very "Grand Prix". Copyright prevents me from posting the image but if you goggle Google (sorry) with the words "Graham Hill Klemantaski" you can see for yourself...
GH's goggles are heavily taped whilst, if you look carefully, you will also see the spare pair hanging around his neck, very "Grand Prix". Copyright prevents me from posting the image but if you goggle Google (sorry) with the words "Graham Hill Klemantaski" you can see for yourself...
#10
Macca
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 18:58
I remember a picture of Jim Clark with some sort of tape sticked directly on his face and forehead to provide a little protection from the pressure and friction made on his skin by the edges of the goggles:
I believe Clark used tape for two reasons, neither of which was to relieve pressure; when there was loose grit flying about he would stick a piece of tape over his nose or top lip for protection and another on his forehead between helmet and goggles, and at Zandvoort especially he would tape round the edge of his googles to keep the sand out.
DSJ related how in an otherwise perfect Dutch GP in 1964 Clark had hit a kerb hard on one lap. He mentioned it after the race and Clark said that he had tightened his goggles strap too much to keep the sand out and had got a headache which distracted him that one time.
Paul M
#11
Roger Stoddard
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 19:03
Is this the place to mention the very wonderful 'whirly visor' which I see Mr Hines is still selling from Zip's website.
They were popular in bike racing but I know Graham Hill used one at least once in the rain.
They were popular in bike racing but I know Graham Hill used one at least once in the rain.
#12
f1steveuk
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 19:46
I remember using those in karting. I also remember the bubble visors GP drivers used in the rain such as Canada 1973, and I think Hulme had one with elements connected to a battery to keep it fog free! Twinny will have a picture I'm sure!;)
#13
HistoricMustang
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 20:56
Originally posted by Roger Stoddard
Is this the place to mention the very wonderful 'whirly visor' which I see Mr Hines is still selling from Zip's website.
They were popular in bike racing but I know Graham Hill used one at least once in the rain.
Roger,
I believe TNF's would welcome any photographs that are not protected.
Personally, I would like to see some of the goggles belonging to TNF members and some of the photographs that were taken at the track (drivers at speed or out of the vehicles).
Henry
I drilled some small holes across the top of mine to help with fogging.
#14
Bonde
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 21:06
I believe the plastic goggles popular right 'till the end of the open face helmet era were actually introduced by the US Army during WWII for their desert tank crews.
Here's a link to a photo: http://www.ktroop.co...ages/patton.jpg
Here's a link to a photo: http://www.ktroop.co...ages/patton.jpg
#15
WGD706
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 21:58
Originally posted by Bonde
I believe the plastic goggles popular right 'till the end of the open face helmet era were actually introduced by the US Army during WWII for their desert tank crews.
Here's a link to a photo: http://www.ktroop.co...ages/patton.jpg
Also, the USAAF (US Army Air Force) used the B-8 Goggles...
http://www.bellsavia...P_1560_600w.jpg
The M-1944 All Purpose Goggles...
http://www.bellsavia...P_1333_600w.jpg
The AN-6530 Goggles ...
http://www.bellsavia...es/DCP_9134.jpg
The US Navy had the USN 1-F-4B Flying Goggles ...
http://www.bellsavia...es/DCP_8908.jpg
#16
Wolf
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 22:46
Badge #85, here are few I've seen here in TNF (I couldn't bother looking for original ones, so I've u/l-ed them to my site- if anyone minds, I'll remove them ASAP) :
#17
HistoricMustang
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#18
Bonde
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 23:55
WGD706,
Thanks for that insight !
I wonder whether the B-8/M-1944 type goggles first saw service in the air or on the ground? From what I've just Googled, the USAAF appear to have been the 'launch customer'.
I suppose at lot of racers, not least in the US, actually used surplus service items. Looking through Schlegelmilch's wonderful 'Portraits of the 60s Formula 1', a lot of the goggles there appear to be genuine B-8/M-1944 items. I guess a 'giveaway' would be olive drab coloured straps for the original service items. On one picture of Dan Gurney (page 116) I think I can actually read "Polaroid" branding on his goggles, and on page 182 Innes Ireland's goggles are definitely branded "Pioneer Scientific Corporation".
A pair of 'Polaroid' WWII aviation goggles can be found on e-bay: http://cgi.ebay.com/...category=104007
I'm sure several TNF members can vouch for these popular goggles being ex-US service items or identical items.
Thanks for that insight !
I wonder whether the B-8/M-1944 type goggles first saw service in the air or on the ground? From what I've just Googled, the USAAF appear to have been the 'launch customer'.
I suppose at lot of racers, not least in the US, actually used surplus service items. Looking through Schlegelmilch's wonderful 'Portraits of the 60s Formula 1', a lot of the goggles there appear to be genuine B-8/M-1944 items. I guess a 'giveaway' would be olive drab coloured straps for the original service items. On one picture of Dan Gurney (page 116) I think I can actually read "Polaroid" branding on his goggles, and on page 182 Innes Ireland's goggles are definitely branded "Pioneer Scientific Corporation".
A pair of 'Polaroid' WWII aviation goggles can be found on e-bay: http://cgi.ebay.com/...category=104007
I'm sure several TNF members can vouch for these popular goggles being ex-US service items or identical items.
#19
Paul Rochdale
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Posted 13 November 2005 - 10:46
The favourite goggles used by motorcycle racers in the 60s were Octopus goggles, certainly this was the brand used by Hailwood, Read, etc. These seem no longer to be made but a very similar copy are the Climax 500 as shown on www.davida.co.uk/climax/cgoggles.html
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#20
Teapot
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Posted 13 November 2005 - 10:58
Originally posted by Macca
I believe Clark used tape for two reasons, neither of which was to relieve pressure; when there was loose grit flying about he would stick a piece of tape over his nose or top lip for protection and another on his forehead between helmet and goggles, and at Zandvoort especially he would tape round the edge of his googles to keep the sand out.
That makes sense....one of the picture I was talking about had been taken right in Zandvoort in 1964!
#21
Pedro 917
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Posted 13 November 2005 - 13:44
A 1968 picture showing Jackie Stewart's goggles almost completely taped in (photographer unknown)
My guess is that it helps to concentrate and focus on the track.
My guess is that it helps to concentrate and focus on the track.
#22
Keir
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Posted 14 November 2005 - 19:20
Can they still be bought ???
#23
Paul Rochdale
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Posted 14 November 2005 - 19:51
Keir
Have a look at ebay 6578715512
Have a look at ebay 6578715512
#24
Keir
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Posted 14 November 2005 - 20:02
I had a pair many years ago when I bought my first motorcycle. I taped over the top of the lens just like the F1GP guys !!
#25
Macca
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Posted 15 November 2005 - 12:32
Apart from Snetterton in 1964, where he wrote off BRM P261/1, Graham Hill rarely wore the rotary visor again - however, he did wear it in the 1968 F2 Holts Trophy final at crystal Palace:
(leading Robin Widdows, Chequered Flag McLaren M4, and Alan Rees, Brabham BT23)
picture from 'Racing at Crystal Palace' by Phillip Parfitt, copyright where due.
Paul M
(leading Robin Widdows, Chequered Flag McLaren M4, and Alan Rees, Brabham BT23)
picture from 'Racing at Crystal Palace' by Phillip Parfitt, copyright where due.
Paul M
#26
WDH74
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Posted 15 November 2005 - 19:38
The strap/bracing piece for the rotary shield thingie appears to go right across Hill's eyes...I also wonder if that thing spinning around would cause one's head to tilt to one side thru centrifugal force?
-William
-William
#27
Joe Bosworth
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Posted 16 November 2005 - 02:15
The antithesis of taping the top of the goggles for sun elimination is described in the following:
At Dunkirk NY, in about 1959, we had a particularly wet race where vision was all but impossible. I took a spare lense from the afore-said style of goggles and carefully positioned and cut a slit in front of each eye. The slits were about 3mm by 12mm.
Installed the lens and voila, perfect vision. I was looking at clear, but sodden air. Apparently and as I thought, the back side of the lense area to the face pressurised with no fair flow and held out rain drops.
Used the system thereafter for some years when wet racing.
Incidentally, spare lenses in clear, smoked green and yellow were readily available for the goggles in those times.
At Dunkirk NY, in about 1959, we had a particularly wet race where vision was all but impossible. I took a spare lense from the afore-said style of goggles and carefully positioned and cut a slit in front of each eye. The slits were about 3mm by 12mm.
Installed the lens and voila, perfect vision. I was looking at clear, but sodden air. Apparently and as I thought, the back side of the lense area to the face pressurised with no fair flow and held out rain drops.
Used the system thereafter for some years when wet racing.
Incidentally, spare lenses in clear, smoked green and yellow were readily available for the goggles in those times.
#28
FLB
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Posted 16 November 2005 - 02:50
I don't know if any other drivers ever wore a rotary visor with a full-face helmet, but Eddie Cheever did it at Estoril in 1985 for the Portuguese Grand-Prix.Originally posted by Macca
Apart from Snetterton in 1964, where he wrote off BRM P261/1, Graham Hill rarely wore the rotary visor again - however, he did wear it in the 1968 F2 Holts Trophy final at crystal Palace:
(leading Robin Widdows, Chequered Flag McLaren M4, and Alan Rees, Brabham BT23)
picture from 'Racing at Crystal Palace' by Phillip Parfitt, copyright where due.
Paul M
#29
Joe Bosworth
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Posted 17 November 2005 - 06:15
For WDH74 and his query on centrifugal force with the rotary spinning water slinger; centrifuagal force was not a problem but gyroscopics were quite disconcerting and forceful.
I can't imagine how they managed on a motorcycle at speed, I never tried.
I can't imagine how they managed on a motorcycle at speed, I never tried.
#30
D-Type
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Posted 17 November 2005 - 13:56
As a spectacle wearer, I once bought some goggles specially designed for wearing over them - they had a cut out or a moulding for the side arms. But they misted up in the rain so I switched to a visor.
