What do you think?
How many WDCs will Alonso win?
Started by
skittt
, Nov 11 2005 23:07
133 replies to this topic
#4
se7en_24
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Posted 11 November 2005 - 23:12
In all seriousness, I'd say three.
#5
Tubbs
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Posted 11 November 2005 - 23:14
Originally posted by se7en_24
In all seriousness, I'd say three.
So you think he will get a clean sweep before the destruction of F1?
#6
magicalonso
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Posted 11 November 2005 - 23:15
This really depends on how long Alonso decides to stay in F1. Alonso has said that he does not see himself remaining in this sport as long as for example Michael Schumacher.
I think that Alonso, if given a decent car, can win the championship every year that he is competing in F1. However it is likely that at some point he will not have a car capable of winning or competing for podiums on a regular basis such as the R24...Very difficult to make any predicitons, but I see him winning at the very least 4 or 5 WDC's.. Depends on the circumstances really...IMHO if they all were driving the same cars he'd be winning it every year, but this will obviously never happen.
I think that Alonso, if given a decent car, can win the championship every year that he is competing in F1. However it is likely that at some point he will not have a car capable of winning or competing for podiums on a regular basis such as the R24...Very difficult to make any predicitons, but I see him winning at the very least 4 or 5 WDC's.. Depends on the circumstances really...IMHO if they all were driving the same cars he'd be winning it every year, but this will obviously never happen.
#7
Tubbs
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Posted 11 November 2005 - 23:23
Originally posted by magicalonso
I think that Alonso, if given a decent car, can win the championship every year that he is competing in F1.
Decent car is not enough when there is competition like Kimi.
#8
magicalonso
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Posted 11 November 2005 - 23:30
Well I am quite sure that Alonso (as nobody else) would probably not have won the WDC 2005 in a BAR or Toyota etc... Then again- you put 2 Fisichella's (not that Fisico is a bad driver) in a Renault this year and very likely most people would have been left thinking "Nobody could win the championship with this Renault"Originally posted by Tubbs
Decent car is not enough when there is competition like Kimi.
#9
gerry nassar
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Posted 11 November 2005 - 23:42
It depends on the cars he is in and the circumstances. He could only win 1 or he could win 10. Same goes for the other top drivers.
#10
Cittānuova
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Posted 11 November 2005 - 23:56
I would say 2 WDC's.
#11
jj2728
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 00:12
3 if he's lucky......maybe...he reminds me of lauda....
#12
boostpressure
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 06:13
Originally posted by Tubbs
Decent car is not enough when there is competition like Kimi.
the opposite applies also.
Had Alonso been in the MP4/20, I dare say he would have looked like the racer with the most 'pure speed', a tag that has been attached to Kimi. Had Kimi been in the Renault, he wouldn't have looked half as quick.
and remember, when the Renault was the fastest car early on, Alonso easily looked to have phenomenal speed and an edge on Kimi.
Go figure.....
#13
boostpressure
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 06:14
Originally posted by gerry nassar
It depends on the cars he is in and the circumstances. He could only win 1 or he could win 10. Same goes for the other top drivers.
Couldn't be more correct.....
#15
boostpressure
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 06:16
and to reply to the question......
Fernando will, maximum, win 2 World Championship's.
Fernando will, maximum, win 2 World Championship's.
#17
chak
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 08:43
Originally posted by boostpressure
the opposite applies also.
Had Alonso been in the MP4/20, I dare say he would have looked like the racer with the most 'pure speed', a tag that has been attached to Kimi. Had Kimi been in the Renault, he wouldn't have looked half as quick.
and remember, when the Renault was the fastest car early on, Alonso easily looked to have phenomenal speed and an edge on Kimi.
Go figure.....
yea, that's the part that frustrates me too... on how there's this perception that kimi has like supernatural speed. the only difference i can see between the way they won their most dominant races is that alonso doesn't go around setting a fastest lap towards the end. whether that's a good or bad thing, i'll leave it to you.
as it is, 3. even if i hope for 8.
TOMA!
#18
SkorbiF1
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 11:46
Originally posted by boostpressure
the opposite applies also.
Had Alonso been in the MP4/20, I dare say he would have looked like the racer with the most 'pure speed', a tag that has been attached to Kimi. Had Kimi been in the Renault, he wouldn't have looked half as quick.
and remember, when the Renault was the fastest car early on, Alonso easily looked to have phenomenal speed and an edge on Kimi.
Go figure.....
the opposite applies also.
Had Alonso been driving Kimi's MP4/20, he probably would have looked to have even more 'pure speed' than he showed with the Renault, BUT Alonso would not be 2005 WDC had he been driving that Mclaren.
#19
Rob Silver Speed
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 12:07
Originally posted by magicalonso
Well I am quite sure that Alonso (as nobody else) would probably not have won the WDC 2005 in a BAR or Toyota etc... Then again- you put 2 Fisichella's (not that Fisico is a bad driver) in a Renault this year and very likely most people would have been left thinking "Nobody could win the championship with this Renault"
IMO you'd have seen renault dominate because fisico wouldn't be playing second fiddle
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#20
Speed_A
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 12:10
This season most emphatically showed that decent car is enough for FA. Not for KR, though.Originally posted by Tubbs
Decent car is not enough when there is competition like Kimi.
#21
LuckyStrike1
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 12:14
Originally posted by Tubbs
Decent car is not enough when there is competition like Kimi.
It was more than enough in 2005 ...
I'd say more championships than Kimi.
#22
MuMu
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 12:47
For the last decade or so, the man with the best car won the championship. So it depends on how good his car is. If Renault can provide him with the best car for another decade, he could win 10 or more championships. If his car starts suffering from reliablity problems etc, he may not win another.
#23
Tubbs
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 13:22
Originally posted by Speed_A
This season most emphatically showed that decent car is enough for FA. Not for KR, though.
You are pathetic.
#24
Tubbs
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 13:23
Originally posted by LuckyStrike1
It was more than enough in 2005 ...
It was not just decent car, it was the best car.
#25
Spunout
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 13:27
This season most emphatically showed that decent car is enough for FA. Not for KR, though.
I thought Alonso won the WDC
If we assume KR and FA were equally fast, and forget KR pushed 100% more often than FA (because of WDC standings)...
In first 3 races Renault was the best car no matter how you measure it. Imola was dead even between KR & FA. There were many races where there was hardly anything between them, and races where Renault was faster (Canada, China, etc). For sure, McLaren was OVERALL faster since Imola, but not all the time.
Then add FAÂīs 100% reliability and current points system where 1 DNF can mean you need 5 (!) wins to make it up.
Decent car? You must be kidding.
#26
Speed_A
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 14:08
All of your posts are merely excuses why KR is missing on the championship year after year. And the answer is clear to neutral observers: because he is not the best driver out there.Originally posted by Tubbs
You are pathetic.
#27
Speed_A
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 14:10
Well, it certainly wasn't indecent, I've seen it behave itself quite wellOriginally posted by Spunout
Decent car? You must be kidding.
#28
BorderReiver
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 14:10
Originally posted by Speed_A
All of your posts are merely excuses why KR is missing on the championship year after year. And the answer is clear to neutral observers: because he is not the best driver out there.
The best driver of all time can't win world championships if his car doesn't finish races.
I'm suprised such an obvious fact seems to have passed you by . . .
#29
Speed_A
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 14:18
KR failed to finish only 2 races this year, Indy discounted, one of them because of his own mistake.Originally posted by BorderReiver
The best driver of all time can't win world championships if his car doesn't finish races.
I'm suprised such an obvious fact seems to have passed you by . . .
#30
etoipi
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 14:19
The question of how many championships Alonso wins -1 or 10 - doesn't really matter. What I beliee is more relevant is that we get competitive championships - edge of the seat stuff. Since I am not particularly parochial and more interested in what good for the sport (and that applies toany sport) that may explain my response.
#31
prty
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 15:08
Originally posted by Spunout
Then add FAÂīs 100% reliability and current points system where 1 DNF can mean you need 5 (!) wins to make it up.
Same as in (!) MotoGP, and no one whines there.
#32
prty
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 15:14
Originally posted by BorderReiver
The best driver of all time can't win world championships if his car doesn't finish races.
I'm suprised such an obvious fact seems to have passed you by . . .
When Alonso didn't have to play it safe, Kimi and McLaren didn't have anything to respond (what you have always said mid season with Alonso and Renault), so using your logic, I'll forget about everything else and say that Alonso is the best driver of all the time!
In fact, in Brazil, Japan and China you have seen Alonso playing it safe to get the championship, charging 100% making the best overtaking manouvre of the season, and dominating the whole weekend, from start to finish. He proved he is capable to do all of those roles. Which some of his competence can't say ;) There's just no way to critise him
#33
Spunout
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 15:30
KR failed to finish only 2 races this year, Indy discounted, one of them because of his own mistake.
Like Alonso/Canada, where he made much bigger mistake by crashing out.
And you are wrong: Imola, Europe, Germany - thatÂīs 3 races.
How many points in your opinion KR lost because of mechanical gremlins?
I understand you are Alonso fan and thus refuse to see Renault had faster/equally fast car in several races, even after Bahrain. I mentioned Imola (equal), Canada (Renault faster) and China (Renault faster). But according to Alonso, Renault was faster in Japan, too. Then you had France, Silverstone, etc. Races where it wasnÂīt so clear whether McLaren was faster or not.
You completely ignore the importance of reliability. With JPM & Fisi underperforming many of the races where KR had car advantage gave him no more then 2 points over Alonso. ThatÂīs not much. Think about it: Imola & Hock alone gave Alonso 20 points over KR. And if we add the points lost because of engine penalties, loose tyre (Malaysia), etc...well, you do the math.
#34
xype
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 15:31
Somewhere between 1 and 15, but please ask again in 15 years.;)
#35
Spunout
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 15:33
Same as in (!) MotoGP, and no one whines there.
I am not whining about the points system.
#38
Tubbs
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 16:21
Originally posted by Spunout
Think about it: Imola & Hock alone gave Alonso 20 points over KR.
Actually 24 when we count the points Kimi lost and also those that Alonso gained.
#39
prty
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 16:24
Originally posted by Spunout
I am not whining about the points system.
What was your point then?
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#40
Spunout
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 16:27
What was your point then?
The importance of reliability.
#41
Tubbs
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 16:30
Originally posted by Speed_A
All of your posts are merely excuses why KR is missing on the championship year after year. And the answer is clear to neutral observers: because he is not the best driver out there.
The appalling reliability Kimi endured in 2004 is not an excuse it's a fact. It's also a fact that he had a **** car for most of 2004 so there was no possibility of even fighting for WDC. And it's fact that he almost won in 2003 despite driving vastly inferior car to Schumacher. However I'm not surprised that you completely fail to see these facts but then again you are not exactly a neutral observer.
#42
prty
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 16:56
Originally posted by Spunout
The importance of reliability.
...within the current points system. Otherwise you wouldn't have included a "current points system where 1 DNF can mean you need 5 (!) wins to make it up" in your post.
#43
Speed_A
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 17:03
FA still had to be in a position to win after only KR retired in front of him and he was always there, with a slower car.Originally posted by Tubbs
Actually 24 when we count the points Kimi lost and also those that Alonso gained.
#44
Tubbs
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 17:47
Originally posted by Speed_A
FA still had to be in a position to win after only KR retired in front of him and he was always there, with a slower car.
So? It's not Kimi's fault that MS (who had the absolutely fastest car at Imola) and JPM made mistakes in those races.
#45
BorderReiver
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 17:58
Originally posted by Speed_A
KR failed to finish only 2 races this year, Indy discounted, one of them because of his own mistake.
He also started a great many more with engine penalties.
It's amazing how insecure Alonso fans seem to be about this world championship, they are constantly beating their chests about it. I wonder why . . .
I just hope Fernando himself is more easy with it.
#46
HSJ
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 18:02
Originally posted by Spunout
Then add FAÂīs 100% reliability and current points system where 1 DNF can mean you need 5 (!) wins to make it up.
One DNF = 6 races. Even if you win 5 races but DNF once you get 50 points. Then the other guy finishes 2nd 5 times and wins when you DNF, he also gest 50 points. So one DNF means 6 races out of the equation regarding WDC, i.e. one third of a season. Of course this is somewhat theoretical...
#47
Ricardo F1
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 18:06
With a slower car than the car in front of him . . . uh, OK.Originally posted by Speed_A
FA still had to be in a position to win after only KR retired in front of him and he was always there, with a slower car.
I'd say two ; depends - if Renault continue to give him the best car, or if he moves to whomever provides the best car, he has shown he's more than capable of winning the WDC. Would also help him if Kimi wasn't in the same car.
#48
prty
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 18:35
Originally posted by BorderReiver
It's amazing how insecure Alonso fans seem to be about this world championship, they are constantly beating their chests about it. I wonder why . . .
Hehehe not quite, Tubbs started the discussion about needing more than a decent car if Kimi is around, or "you are pathetic" posts, so I'd say Kimi's fans (actually not Kimi's fans, but FA bashers) are more insecure to be honest, after all Fernando was the one who won
Despite you still haven't explained why Kimi couldn't answer Alonso's pace when he had alredy won the championship
#49
DCult
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 18:50
Originally posted by Speed_A
All of your posts are merely excuses why KR is missing on the championship year after year. And the answer is clear to neutral observers: because he is not the best driver out there.
No, to people that are not full of fanatism as yourself, it is clear that Kimi has not won the championship in 2003 and 2005 because of the reliability of the McLaren. End of story. You think you are cleverer than the average person here? What exactly is your agenda and what are you trying to accomplish posting this **** over and over again? Why are you so afraid of Kimi? Please I would like to know.
#50
Menace
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Posted 12 November 2005 - 18:51
Originally posted by BorderReiver
The best driver of all time can't win world championships if his car doesn't finish races.
I'm suprised such an obvious fact seems to have passed you by . . .
Vrba has double standards, always has and always will.
Of course, the most laughable part is when he claims that he is a neutral observer...
He has been saying that now for years, and we all know how "neutral" his views are! FA won this year with the BEST car, undisputed fact when one looks at both the WDC and WCC tables.
I have no idea how many championships he might win, but he will not win anymore unless he happens to sit in the best car over the season. That includes both reliability and outright speed.
