From a selfish point of view, it would be nice to welcome Kyalami back into the fold but that is currently a pipe-dream (Bernie)......
Circuits you'd like to brought back & circuits you'd like to go
Started by
Dick_Dastardly
, Oct 14 2007 11:06
113 replies to this topic
#1
Dick_Dastardly
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 11:06
My particular bugbear for a while has been the Hungaroring. If ever there as a track that limited overtaking this has got be it. Okay, Monaco aswell but for sheer history and glitz it has to be retained. I'd also like to see the European Grand Prix rotated annually, so we get to see circuits like Brands, the A-1 ring etc. Also the drivers would be less familiar with them From a selfish point of view, it would be nice to welcome Kyalami back into the fold but that is currently a pipe-dream (Bernie)......
From a selfish point of view, it would be nice to welcome Kyalami back into the fold but that is currently a pipe-dream (Bernie)......
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#2
Risil
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 11:14
In a few years, once the OWG's proposals have been implemented, the lack of overtaking opportunities in places like Hungary will give the place a thrill of its own.
It's also totally different from virtually all the other tracks, so it can often throw up significant surprises. The Nurburgring perhaps ought to go, but we won't have to worry about that until 2009, IMO the Tilke redesigns have been a pleasant surprise, especially compared to what would in previous eras have been a simple and uninspiring chicaning/shortening à la Imola or Paul Ricard.
If we're talking about pipe dreams, the Osterreichring is at the top of my list (although overtaking would be hilariously nonexistent), followed by the Hermanos Rodriguez track and a suitably revamped Imola. Surely SAFER barriers would be an alternative to the relentless chicaning?
It's also totally different from virtually all the other tracks, so it can often throw up significant surprises. The Nurburgring perhaps ought to go, but we won't have to worry about that until 2009, IMO the Tilke redesigns have been a pleasant surprise, especially compared to what would in previous eras have been a simple and uninspiring chicaning/shortening à la Imola or Paul Ricard.
If we're talking about pipe dreams, the Osterreichring is at the top of my list (although overtaking would be hilariously nonexistent), followed by the Hermanos Rodriguez track and a suitably revamped Imola. Surely SAFER barriers would be an alternative to the relentless chicaning?
#3
Jhope
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 11:22
Gone:
Hungaroring
Nurburgring
Sakhir
Brought Back:
Zandvoort
Mexico City
Watkins Glenn
Paul Ricard (without the blue and red hypnotizing run-off, and with proper curbs)
Hungaroring
Nurburgring
Sakhir
Brought Back:
Zandvoort
Mexico City
Watkins Glenn
Paul Ricard (without the blue and red hypnotizing run-off, and with proper curbs)
#4
OssieFan
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 11:36
Adelaide to be brought back, without a doubt.
#5
MikeTekRacing
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 11:38
are any of those you want back capable of running F1 today?
will they be as dull as they are now? i think it was settled that the problem in today's F1 is not in the tracks but in the cars.
will they be as dull as they are now? i think it was settled that the problem in today's F1 is not in the tracks but in the cars.
#7
GNT4ME
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 12:19
To Go.
Hungaroring
Nurbutgring
Catalunya
Bring back
Buenos Aires
Brands
Zandvoort
Track only good for Quali. Racing normally dull.
Monaco
Totally agree European GP should be rotated.
Hungaroring
Nurbutgring
Catalunya
Bring back
Buenos Aires
Brands
Zandvoort
Track only good for Quali. Racing normally dull.
Monaco
Totally agree European GP should be rotated.
#8
F1Champion
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 12:29
Is it just me or would people like to see Monaco gone from the schedule.
It just doesn't provide exciting racing, its massively processional. There's not one open spot for a pass. People say its the jewel in the F1 calendar, but why? Just because its placed in the city of the rich and famous and ran in their tightest of roads?
It just doesn't provide exciting racing, its massively processional. There's not one open spot for a pass. People say its the jewel in the F1 calendar, but why? Just because its placed in the city of the rich and famous and ran in their tightest of roads?
#9
Massa_f1
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 12:51
Gone
Fuji
Hungaroring
Back
Imola
Old Hockenheim with the strights.
Fuji
Hungaroring
Back
Imola
Old Hockenheim with the strights.
#10
GNT4ME
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 12:58
Originally posted by F1Champion
Is it just me or would people like to see Monaco gone from the schedule.
It just doesn't provide exciting racing, its massively processional. There's not one open spot for a pass. People say its the jewel in the F1 calendar, but why? Just because its placed in the city of the rich and famous and ran in their tightest of roads?
So agree.
Monaco is dull unless it rains or the safety car comes out.
Quali is FAB here - as this is where the race is won.
IMO it is only the Jewel in the Crown as it is used by BE as his main marketing tool, selling F1 to the world as a sport full of glitz and glamour. Hence “the great and the good” all turning up on the grid knowing nothing about racing, never seen a GP before, and will never bother to watch one again. But WTF, it’s free!
As I understand it – it is the best place to watch a GP as you get so close to the track and the cars-it is a unique experience, which will blow you away.
However, if like me you look at the cost of going to Monaco each year, and find the cost prohibitive, then you are left with having to watch it on the TV = Dull , Dull, Dull.
It’s cheaper to take a week’s holiday and go to the GPs in China or Malaysia than it is to go to the Monaco GP for the weekend.
Am I right in thinking that Monaco is the only GP that pays no fee to Bernie?
If this is the case why is it so expensive?
I suppose it is one way to keep it exclusive and therefore the Jewel in BE huge crown.
Rant over………………..
#11
kar
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 13:10
Originally posted by OssieFan
Adelaide to be brought back, without a doubt.
Times 1000.Imola is the other circuit for me. I love Imola. Yes, the racing there is rubbish (although the previous two races, 2005, and 2006 were among the best races in their respective seasons) but the circuit itself and the setting is magical.
Also, with the removal of traction control, the improvements to the circuit, Imola should provide a good race.
But Adelaide - that circuit needs to come back to F1.
#12
wingwalker
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 13:20
hungaroring is actually quite a nice ride in any of race sims. well, maybe 'nice' is not the best word as it is highly demanding and not forgiving. but yes, watching races there is a drag. i'd keep it or drop it for a while, but come back to it as soon as the cars will change to allow overtaking (if it ever happens).
spain - now, this circuit is a completely boring to ride on after introducing the last chicane and it sill gives ZERO chances of overtaking. there was not a single overtaking move in 2006 (apart from first lap action). OUT.
fuji - WTF. it has a 1.5 km straight. woooow how cool. other than that is has one interesting corner (100r) and big fat nothing inbetween. one speed breaking section goes to another speed breaking section. i guess otherwise it would be too much monza like, but a dry race there will be of monaco/spain quality. OUT. which leads to
SUZUKA. one of the finest, if not the finest track in modern f1. very challenging, some very unusual corners (first two, S section, 130R). the main drag is the usual one: modern f1 cars have a hard time overtaking there. but still it's nuts it is not on the calendar.
spain - now, this circuit is a completely boring to ride on after introducing the last chicane and it sill gives ZERO chances of overtaking. there was not a single overtaking move in 2006 (apart from first lap action). OUT.
fuji - WTF. it has a 1.5 km straight. woooow how cool. other than that is has one interesting corner (100r) and big fat nothing inbetween. one speed breaking section goes to another speed breaking section. i guess otherwise it would be too much monza like, but a dry race there will be of monaco/spain quality. OUT. which leads to
SUZUKA. one of the finest, if not the finest track in modern f1. very challenging, some very unusual corners (first two, S section, 130R). the main drag is the usual one: modern f1 cars have a hard time overtaking there. but still it's nuts it is not on the calendar.
#13
wonk123
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 13:20
It has never been so it cant be brought back, and it could never happen because of the concrete walls, (much more exciting without then when cars could fall off the side of the mountain..) would love to see f1 at mount panorama,,, please please please keep herman away from it
#14
Paul Prost
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 14:02
I think you'll find that Monaco has had more passing and exciting races in recent years than many existing tracks (e.g. Imola, Silverstone, Barcelona).
My pipe dream is to see an F1 car around Philip Island.. but that would never happen.
My pipe dream is to see an F1 car around Philip Island.. but that would never happen.
#15
Ivan
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 14:44
I would love to see Monaco gone as well. But if they took the chicane after the tunnel out I'd like it better. And you'd then have a better passing corner, than the chicane at the tunnel.
I always liked Mexico that would be great to see back, as well as the old Hockenhiem. When they butchered that great track, I was dumb struck.
I always liked Mexico that would be great to see back, as well as the old Hockenhiem. When they butchered that great track, I was dumb struck.
#16
Rob G
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 15:13
Some of the tracks I'd like back have already been destroyed, like the original Kyalami and Zandvoort, and the old Hockenheim. I'd love to see Watkins Glen, Brands Hatch, Adelaide and Mexico City returned to the schedule.
I've never been a fan of the Hungaroring, and Barcelona is too familiar for the teams to produce any surprises. And perhaps most of all, I wish they'd dump Fuji and keep the Japanese GP at Suzuka permanently.
I've never been a fan of the Hungaroring, and Barcelona is too familiar for the teams to produce any surprises. And perhaps most of all, I wish they'd dump Fuji and keep the Japanese GP at Suzuka permanently.
#17
GhostR
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 15:39
Originally posted by F1Champion
Is it just me or would people like to see Monaco gone from the schedule.
It just doesn't provide exciting racing, its massively processional. There's not one open spot for a pass. People say its the jewel in the F1 calendar, but why? Just because its placed in the city of the rich and famous and ran in their tightest of roads?
I've seen as much passing at Monaco in recent years as i have at most other tracks on the calendar. Usually involving Renaults after the tunnel
.
#18
pingu666
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 16:05
brooklands, monza run without the first chicane also..., full spa circuit
they tore up the orginal bits of hockenhiem track that went out into the forest i think
, the new one isnt too bad tho.
they tore up the orginal bits of hockenhiem track that went out into the forest i think
, the new one isnt too bad tho.
#19
MortenF1
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 17:28
I'd like to see the Argentinian GP back - DC rocked on that circuit!
And Suzuka as a permanent fixture. Adelaide is a good suggestion. Maybe Estoril as well.
Get rid of Barcelona and Hungaroring.
And Suzuka as a permanent fixture. Adelaide is a good suggestion. Maybe Estoril as well.
Get rid of Barcelona and Hungaroring.
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#20
F575 GTC
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 17:31
Lose: Silverstone
Bring Back: Donington Park + Rain
Bring Back: Donington Park + Rain
#21
seryt
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 17:34
If the old Kyalami could be brought back then what you are saying would make plenty of sense. However, the emasculated shadow of the former track now used can barely be considered an improvement on most of the tracks currently used for F1.Originally posted by Dick_Dastardly
My particular bugbear for a while has been the Hungaroring. If ever there as a track that limited overtaking this has got be it. Okay, Monaco aswell but for sheer history and glitz it has to be retained. I'd also like to see the European Grand Prix rotated annually, so we get to see circuits like Brands, the A-1 ring etc. Also the drivers would be less familiar with them
#22
Victor
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 21:26
Bye bye Hungaroring and Nurburgring, and don't came back.
Monaco: Yes, of course.
Welcome back Estoril.
Monaco: Yes, of course.
Welcome back Estoril.
#23
Gary C
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 21:28
Bring back : Brooklands, Brands Hatch, the original Spa.
#24
united
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 22:08
I want A1 ring back (90s version). Always energetic, always interesting.
#25
pingu666
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 22:50
Originally posted by united
I want A1 ring back (90s version). Always energetic, always interesting.
indeed it was
, also very much a feeling of a front and a back section
#26
brakedistance
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 23:04
Check out the 1987 season:
Rio
Imola*
Spa*
Monaco*
Detroit
Paul Ricard
Silverstone*
Old Hockenheim*
Hungary
Old Osterrrichring*
Monza*
Estoril*
Mexico*
Suzuka*
Adelaide*
* = genius circuit
Has there ever been a better seasonin Modern times? Throw in Senna/Prost/Mansell/Piquet etc. Oh, to see LH/FA/KR/FM at those circuits...
Rio
Imola*
Spa*
Monaco*
Detroit
Paul Ricard
Silverstone*
Old Hockenheim*
Hungary
Old Osterrrichring*
Monza*
Estoril*
Mexico*
Suzuka*
Adelaide*
* = genius circuit
Has there ever been a better seasonin Modern times? Throw in Senna/Prost/Mansell/Piquet etc. Oh, to see LH/FA/KR/FM at those circuits...
#27
Atreiu
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 23:14
Back:
- Brands Hatch;
- Adelaide;
- Paul Ricard (long circuit layout);
- Suzuka.
Gone:
- Magny-Cours;
- Melbourne;
- Barcelona.
With Valencia, Singapore and Abu Dhabi, my calendar would have 21 events. To make the calendar reasonable and profitable, 4 of the 21 races would be non-GP events with a specific set of rules. I'll speak more of the non-GP in a separeta thread after the season is over.
- Brands Hatch;
- Adelaide;
- Paul Ricard (long circuit layout);
- Suzuka.
Gone:
- Magny-Cours;
- Melbourne;
- Barcelona.
With Valencia, Singapore and Abu Dhabi, my calendar would have 21 events. To make the calendar reasonable and profitable, 4 of the 21 races would be non-GP events with a specific set of rules. I'll speak more of the non-GP in a separeta thread after the season is over.
#28
Atreiu
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 23:15
Originally posted by brakedistance
Check out the 1987 season:
Rio
Imola*
Spa*
Monaco*
Detroit
Paul Ricard
Silverstone*
Old Hockenheim*
Hungary
Old Osterrrichring*
Monza*
Estoril*
Mexico*
Suzuka*
Adelaide*
* = genius circuit
Has there ever been a better seasonin Modern times? Throw in Senna/Prost/Mansell/Piquet etc. Oh, to see LH/FA/KR/FM at those circuits...
1985 had Zandvoort and Brands Hatch.
;)
#29
LukeM
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Posted 14 October 2007 - 23:19
the reason these old classic wonderful tracks are not on the calender is because they arent safe enough to drive, id love to see places like phillip island, brands hatch, the original nurburgring back but its only a dream!
#30
dbltop
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Posted 15 October 2007 - 00:14
I would like to see Mosport and Watkins Glen back.
#31
Muz Bee
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Posted 15 October 2007 - 02:19
Originally posted by dbltop
I would like to see Mosport and Watkins Glen back.
Settle down - great tracks for racing sims both but modern F1 would be a procession (and dangerous I think).
Boot the current lot out in entirety and make them reapply (Gasp!). Along with the Mose.
Hungary No (overtaking)
Nurburg No (ditto and dull)
Magny Cours No (ditto)
Melbourne No (overtaking, boring)
Shanghai No (wrong culture, no crowd)
Sao Paulo No (crime - find a better neighbourhood)
Fuji (weather)
Indy No
Spa Yes yes yes
Suzuka Yes yes yes
Monaco Yes (glamour and point of difference)
Turkey yes
Kuala Lumpur yes
Silverstone maybe (characterless but good racing, British! part time as Euro GP)
Adelaide Yes (character)
Montreal Yes
Estoril Yes
Monza Yes of course
Road America (Elkhart Lake) Yes
Paul Ricard Yes
Old Hockenheim Yes
Brands Hatch Yes
Old Osterrichring Yes
Rio Yes
Isn't 16 enough? Other much loved tracks which may or not exist and probably are totally impractical for modern F1 include Clermont-Ferrand, Watkins Glen, Old Nurburgring, Mosport, Kyalami, Zandvoort and Mexico.
#32
ringj
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Posted 15 October 2007 - 02:52
some tracks seem to have a bad reputation but imho can be good for racing. in recent years i came to enjoy the new hockenheim, mainly because it had 2 consecutive passing possibilities at turn 2 and the next hairpin, so blocking the first attempt would often leave you a sitting duck on the second one.
i also like these carpet/asphalt run-offs as they encourage people to have a go at passing and/or get closer to the limit of grip.
i also like these carpet/asphalt run-offs as they encourage people to have a go at passing and/or get closer to the limit of grip.
#34
Mat
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Posted 15 October 2007 - 03:25
the only track i really miss is the old Hockenheim. I still cant get over the fact they tore the tarmac up. 
#35
united
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Posted 15 October 2007 - 05:23
Originally posted by Muz Bee
Shanghai No (wrong culture, no crowd)
Kuala Lumpur yes
How come Shanghai hasn't got the right culture, while Kuala Lumpur has? In my eyes the tracks are pretty identical.
#36
Muz Bee
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Posted 15 October 2007 - 08:07
Originally posted by united
How come Shanghai hasn't got the right culture, while Kuala Lumpur has? In my eyes the tracks are pretty identical.
Call me old fashioned, I don't like GPs being granted to countries as Bernie's world expansion plan to a country which doesn't participate in any real motorsport or has a fan base. Empty stands look terrible but the truth behind them is even worse. KL does get a crowd in, I don't mind the wide track and layout which allows overtaking and the grandstand design is really groovy! Malaysia has been racing mad for decades and it's only with their growing economy that more are able to afford to participate. I just don't see China in that context, sure in 10 years time it may be where KL was when it got F1.
#37
Moanaman
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Posted 15 October 2007 - 08:13
I want to see a F1 car go round Bathurst, just once, I know there will never be a race there
#38
Atreiu
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Posted 15 October 2007 - 10:57
Originally posted by LukeM
the reason these old classic wonderful tracks are not on the calender is because they arent safe enough to drive, id love to see places like phillip island, brands hatch, the original nurburgring back but its only a dream!
Dreaming like this can be fun, but only before reality smacks you in the face.
The fact is that many tracks are only unliked because of how hard it has become to overtake. If F1 raced at Tilk-o-dromes a decade ago, the races would have been overtaking galores. Sepang would have taken cars and drivers to the limit and not been boring, Bahrain would have had overtaking all around.
#39
Sith
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Posted 15 October 2007 - 11:03
Originally posted by Mat
the only track i really miss is the old Hockenheim. I still cant get over the fact they tore the tarmac up.
Mat, it's been long enough.. Bout time you started building that bridge....
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#40
Orin
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Posted 15 October 2007 - 11:20
Suzuka needs to be brought straight back.
And as others have suggested:-
Adelaide.
Hockenheim as it was before the recent Tilkerisation.
Osterreichring.
Tracks which are completely forgettable:-
Bahrain
China
Nurburgring
A1 ring
Can probably add Malaysia to that list too. Barcelona should improve if the aero rules are sorted, so I'd keep that - same with Silverstone. I don't see how Hungaroring can be made into a good F1 track, so that should be binned.
And as others have suggested:-
Adelaide.
Hockenheim as it was before the recent Tilkerisation.
Osterreichring.
Tracks which are completely forgettable:-
Bahrain
China
Nurburgring
A1 ring
Can probably add Malaysia to that list too. Barcelona should improve if the aero rules are sorted, so I'd keep that - same with Silverstone. I don't see how Hungaroring can be made into a good F1 track, so that should be binned.
#41
MichaelJP
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Posted 15 October 2007 - 11:28
Originally posted by Moanaman
I want to see a F1 car go round Bathurst, just once, I know there will never be a race there
That would be something to see, one of my favourite circuits in the world. Has there ever been open wheel racing there?
#42
Andy Donovan
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Posted 15 October 2007 - 11:31
Anything different is good for me. When they used to run the old Hockenheim it was often a dull race, but looking back I'd love to have something with so much character and history back on the calendar.
I'd keep Monaco and Hungary for this same reason. By current standards the Hungaroring is almost a classic circuit (seeing as 'classic' seems to mean 'built before 2000 for less than $12bn' nowadays).
For bringing in, Suzuka permanently (obviously) and the A1 Ring, which looked uninspiring on paper but produced great racing. As an off the wall suggestion I'd like to see a lap of Oulton Park, although in practice it's far too small for racing.
I'd keep Monaco and Hungary for this same reason. By current standards the Hungaroring is almost a classic circuit (seeing as 'classic' seems to mean 'built before 2000 for less than $12bn' nowadays).
For bringing in, Suzuka permanently (obviously) and the A1 Ring, which looked uninspiring on paper but produced great racing. As an off the wall suggestion I'd like to see a lap of Oulton Park, although in practice it's far too small for racing.
#43
wingwalker
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Posted 15 October 2007 - 11:41
malaysia is probably the most underrated track on the calendar. i think it will become a classic one in future, as it has everything - interesting and overtaking friendly first two corners, tricky turn 4, then a fast left hander going into right one. the last few corners before the straight are a thrill to ride in race sims or to watch the onboards. after the blind one there is nearly flat out right hander and a mini version of turkey turn 7. all pushing driver and car to the limits. it is a crying shame that moder cars can't overtake even on this track - it has slow corner leading to a long straight, than a heavy breaking seciont infront of a hairpin, another long straight and ultra heavy breaking secion followed by two slow corners, with one going into another. and how many passes we witness in this season? the sad truth is we woudln't see ANY passing on majority of the classic tracks. in 2007 most of the action was provided by rain or front gunners starting the race from the back of the grid.
#44
Red Behelit
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Posted 15 October 2007 - 11:55
Circuits to come.
Laguna Seca, Suzuka every year.
I haven`t seen old Nurburgring so I can say nothing about it.
Circuits to go.
Hungaroring, Imola, Magni Cour, Catalunya.
For obvious reason. One can`t overtake there.
Laguna Seca, Suzuka every year.
I haven`t seen old Nurburgring so I can say nothing about it.
Circuits to go.
Hungaroring, Imola, Magni Cour, Catalunya.
For obvious reason. One can`t overtake there.
#45
MichaelJP
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Posted 15 October 2007 - 12:38
I really hope this Overtaking Working group comes up with a solution to the current lack of passing.
It's simply not good enough to dismiss a great track forever just because today's cars can't overtake - it's down to the formula that we have, not the fault of the tracks.
It's simply not good enough to dismiss a great track forever just because today's cars can't overtake - it's down to the formula that we have, not the fault of the tracks.
#46
Red Behelit
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Posted 15 October 2007 - 13:54
Originally posted by MichaelJP
I really hope this Overtaking Working group comes up with a solution to the current lack of passing.
It's simply not good enough to dismiss a great track forever just because today's cars can't overtake - it's down to the formula that we have, not the fault of the tracks.
So I do.
The problem is that nobody will remove circuits out of calendar because of lack of overtaking.
Circuits risk to be removed for other reasons.
#47
Garagiste
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Posted 15 October 2007 - 14:10
I'd love to see modern F1 cars at Goodwood.
Of course it won't happen for all sorts of reasons - the monumental danger being high on the list.
I'd take the risk of standing by the fence though.
Of course it won't happen for all sorts of reasons - the monumental danger being high on the list.
I'd take the risk of standing by the fence though.
#48
Rinehart
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Posted 15 October 2007 - 14:15
I think that the next time HT is briefed to design a new circuit, he should fit all the worlds greatest corners, Eu Rouge, 130R, Parabloica, Ouscurve etc together on one mother of all circuits and be done with it.
#49
F1Fanatic.co.uk
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Posted 15 October 2007 - 14:17
Long Beach
Pescara
Clermont-Ferrand
Buenos Aires No. 15 (with the huge fast sweeps)
Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez
Pescara
Clermont-Ferrand
Buenos Aires No. 15 (with the huge fast sweeps)
Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez
#50
Beej
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- 409 posts
- Joined: February 01
Member
Posted 15 October 2007 - 14:35
Originally posted by F575 GTC
Lose: Silverstone
Bring Back: Donington Park + Rain
Here here. I spend most of my weekeneds at one or other of these two circuits and much prefer Donnington
