Back in the ' 70s for a short time I owned a ' 57 Dodge with a 313 V8. It was what we here called the "Head light and a half model" as it had a single head light and next to it a park light about half the size of a head light. 58s had two head lights. It had a 2 speed "Powerflite" trans with push buttons on the right side of the steering wheel and no "Park" When I got it was on the end of a tow truck. It had a broken pinion at the flange and I fitted a used 6 cyl diff assy. When I fitted it it would not drive and found that the 8 cyl axles where too short and had to fit the 6 cyl axles as well
Corvette-powered NZ race cars '50s/'60s
Started by
thunder427
, Oct 25 2007 13:09
177 replies to this topic
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#102
Ron B.
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Posted 19 March 2009 - 11:50
Peter that would be in the US, a 57 Plymouth and the 58 Plymouths ( Christine et al 
) were the dual headlight model. The trans didn't need a park because the handbrake was on the rear of the trans,and man were those bugga's heavy!. Imagine a couple of skinny kids changing a cast iron powerflite with no jack etc on a ramp .... 
) were the dual headlight model. The trans didn't need a park because the handbrake was on the rear of the trans,and man were those bugga's heavy!. Imagine a couple of skinny kids changing a cast iron powerflite with no jack etc on a ramp ....
#103
Ray Bell
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Posted 19 March 2009 - 12:38
Ron, I'm certain that the slant 6 didn't appear until the 1960 model year...
The 'headlight and a half' deal came about because twin headlights were designed in, but some US states hadn't yet passed the legislation allowing them. So urgent revisions were made to the production cars.
The 313 was the Canadian version of the 318 'A' engine, the engine that started life in 1956 Plymouths and which was known as the 'Poly'... short for 'polyspherical'... the word used to describe combustion chambers that weren't quite hemispherical. Only Canada made 313s.
The 'headlight and a half' deal came about because twin headlights were designed in, but some US states hadn't yet passed the legislation allowing them. So urgent revisions were made to the production cars.
The 313 was the Canadian version of the 318 'A' engine, the engine that started life in 1956 Plymouths and which was known as the 'Poly'... short for 'polyspherical'... the word used to describe combustion chambers that weren't quite hemispherical. Only Canada made 313s.
#104
thunder427
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Posted 19 March 2009 - 13:16
corvette engines in boats, a number of engines were supposably imported for use in boats, as under this banner the were ava 'TAX FREE',eventually the 'Tax dept' caught on and insisted that ,to get your tax refund, the motor had to be inspected in a/the boat,.....a great story (pos. an Urban Myth) but is worth repeating in light of this thread, a couple of brothers from the city of Nelson,top of New Zealands South Island ( a very pretty place!!)recieved thier 'Imported 327Chev.Corvette engine destined to be implanted in a 37/38 Chev Coupe,so as required they fitted it in "a Boat",arranged for the inspection,at a given time,this also coinsided with the tide being out as the boat in question was a little short on 'sea worthyness',the inspector arrived at the agreed time,walked up and along the jetty while our intrepped brothers dutifly started and ran the motor,read; some 'prop'wash etc,impressed with thier effort our inspector signed the forms,subjesting rather matterfactly,that ,should they wish to use that engine for any other purpose in the future,that he would considered, that it would be a 'Brave man' that would sail out past the heads,his recomendation ,was put it on a trailer before the tide returns,"good afternoon to you gentlemen"....and departed ,leaving the brothers scratching thier heads........................the engine was installed in the Chev Coupe which had a "Massive' roll over on the 1st lap at the 'Lady Wigram Trophy Race' that year ,racing in the last race of the day 'The allcomers Saloon Car championship Race'.................best race of the day in my memory.................regards427
#105
Lee Nicolle
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Posted 19 March 2009 - 22:53
Ray, we might be at odds here. The 318A block was the engine used from about 64 on, originally 273 then 318 plus 340 and 360. Used worldwide in the smaller cars plus Dodge Phoinexs etc plus Aussie ValiantsOriginally posted by Ray Bell
Ron, I'm certain that the slant 6 didn't appear until the 1960 model year...
The 'headlight and a half' deal came about because twin headlights were designed in, but some US states hadn't yet passed the legislation allowing them. So urgent revisions were made to the production cars.
The 313 was the Canadian version of the 318 'A' engine, the engine that started life in 1956 Plymouths and which was known as the 'Poly'... short for 'polyspherical'... the word used to describe combustion chambers that weren't quite hemispherical. Only Canada made 313s.
The poly or sawtooth [rocker cover shape]engine was used in all models inc trucks up to about 64 in 313 and later 318 form. Quite a lot of internals are interchangeable on the bottom end.
Mopar seemed to have several engine familys plus sub groups. But the smaller engines I do know.
#106
Ron B.
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Posted 21 March 2009 - 09:22
Today in the US there is a resergence in interest for the small Chev V8 , the 265 of the 1955 and 56 Chevs. My first V8 chev was a 56 belair and the rev ability of the little engine was amazing. I was looking at picture of an Australian Single seater with a 'corvette' engine and lo and behold I spy 265 lo comp heads . There were two types in the first three years,the lo comp with a single round bump and the hi comp power pack heads with bigger intakes and 58cc combustion chamber and a sharp triangle shaped ID mark. . I wonder how many of those early NZ corvette engines would stand up to scrutiny in the head markings?. The early chevies are big revvers thpough.i have seen 9000 RPM with a 327 on pump petrol ...in a road car. Note the exhausts exiting under the front guards. This is on topic here because the engine was a 1964 Corvette originally and came from a single seat racing car,albeit a Supermodified sprint car with 13-1 compression,magneto etc etc .
#107
Ray Bell
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Posted 21 March 2009 - 09:58
Originally posted by Lee Nicolle
Ray, we might be at odds here. The 318A block was the engine used from about 64 on, originally 273 then 318 plus 340 and 360. Used worldwide in the smaller cars plus Dodge Phoinexs etc plus Aussie Valiants
The poly or sawtooth [rocker cover shape]engine was used in all models inc trucks up to about 64 in 313 and later 318 form. Quite a lot of internals are interchangeable on the bottom end.
Mopar seemed to have several engine familys plus sub groups. But the smaller engines I do know.
The 273 and later 318, the 340 and the 360 were all designated 'LA' engines...
The 'A' engine was the Poly that began as a 277 (I think...) in '56 Plymouths and grew to 301, 303, there's a 325 or 326 and the familiar 313s and 318s.
The 318 wasn't a 'later version' of the 313, the 313 was the Canadian version while the US had concurrently the 318. Even the first of the enlarged LA engines produced in Canada were 313s.
Poly engines were produced in the US until 1966, Canada through 1967. The 273 was the only LA engine until the end of 1966.
#108
Peter Leversedge
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Posted 21 March 2009 - 10:28
I also owned a Aust built AP6 Chrysler Valiant [ Plymouth in the US ] with a 273 engine and it was a "small" engine compared to the 313. If I remember correctly the car was same weight as the slant 6 model. I beleive the 273 was the first of the "thin wall" cast blocks ?? I ran a few drag race meets with it and won the "street stock class" It was a nice car, wish I still had it. Not many AP6 V8s came to NZ
#109
Ron B.
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Posted 21 March 2009 - 10:44
Thats right, but the poly was available quite early in the piece on the Chrysler windsor 301 ,a hemi with a poly heads and different pistons. The First plymouth V8 was a baby poly.I cannot remember off hand how many varieties of polys there were but there are dozens and NOTHING interchanges between any of them.
Dodge V8's were available in Australia in 1956 with a 325 Poly,again a Hemi with different heads and pistons. I have seen 1 and that was under a house in a Brisbane suburb where it had lain for years. This was a proper Dodge, not a Chysler badged 1951 plymouth Cranbrook with fins and 55 plymouth front guards... :
A suburb away I saw another one retrieved from a garage where it had been since the 60's with the usual FH 6 . An expensive casr intheir day,not too many were ever sold here. Chrysler also sold Windsors in OZ,the 1950-51 models but all had the spitfire FH Chrysler engine. The only ones I have seen belong to the same guy out at lightning ridge.
The 318 A poly is a good engine but nothing interchanges with the commonwealth market 313 engine. The 313 is shorter,has a different oil filter arrangement and too many other differences to mention
One thing that strangely does interchange are the heads,318 Polys will interchange heads with LA engines. Certainly the ignition does interchange by simply bolting in the later transistor distributor to improve the running of a phoenix with an hours effort.
Ray you were dead right,the SL 6 didn't come onto the market until 1960. I had a 58 plymouth with a 225 in the past though,I did the swap to keep a good car on the road rather than rering a smokey FH 6 ;)
Dodge V8's were available in Australia in 1956 with a 325 Poly,again a Hemi with different heads and pistons. I have seen 1 and that was under a house in a Brisbane suburb where it had lain for years. This was a proper Dodge, not a Chysler badged 1951 plymouth Cranbrook with fins and 55 plymouth front guards... :
A suburb away I saw another one retrieved from a garage where it had been since the 60's with the usual FH 6 . An expensive casr intheir day,not too many were ever sold here. Chrysler also sold Windsors in OZ,the 1950-51 models but all had the spitfire FH Chrysler engine. The only ones I have seen belong to the same guy out at lightning ridge. The 318 A poly is a good engine but nothing interchanges with the commonwealth market 313 engine. The 313 is shorter,has a different oil filter arrangement and too many other differences to mention
One thing that strangely does interchange are the heads,318 Polys will interchange heads with LA engines. Certainly the ignition does interchange by simply bolting in the later transistor distributor to improve the running of a phoenix with an hours effort.
Ray you were dead right,the SL 6 didn't come onto the market until 1960. I had a 58 plymouth with a 225 in the past though,I did the swap to keep a good car on the road rather than rering a smokey FH 6 ;)
#110
Ron B.
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Posted 21 March 2009 - 10:50
Not too many were sold in OZ either Peter! . A mate owned a wrecking yard out at lightning ridge with a AP 6 273 which got crushed when the yard was closed in 1995 : They are a very good engine and not very well known today. . Google up Chryslers rally record for the period to see how well they did do in events other than drag racing.Originally posted by Peter Leversedge
I also owned a Aust built AP6 Chrysler Valiant [ Plymouth in the US ] with a 273 engine and it was a "small" engine compared to the 313. If I remember correctly the car was same weight as the slant 6 model. I beleive the 273 was the first of the "thin wall" cast blocks ?? I ran a few drag race meets with it and won the "street stock class" It was a nice car, wish I still had it. Not many AP6 V8s came to NZ
#111
David McKinney
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Posted 21 March 2009 - 13:48
...not to mention long-distance saloon racing in NZ 
#112
Ray Bell
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Posted 21 March 2009 - 14:16
Yes, there was a Hemi-based Poly of 325 or 326 cubic inches... but there was also an 'A' engine Poly used briefly in Dodges with the other capacity. Not sure which was which, possibly the 'A' engine was the 326...
And there were other Polys, but none based on a Chrysler Hemi. But the basic A-engine remained. The blocks were dimensionally the same except for variations in bores, the heads were all the same, and the only difference between the 313 and the 318 is the bore size. The oil filter arrangement is purely a RHD variation, it puts a remote line onto the block where a filter goes on there in LHD vehicles. RHD trucks, both 318 and 313, have the filter fitted directly onto the block like the LHD ones.
I had a 313 I was playing with the other day... it was from a truck and had the oil filter screwed into the block. It had a cast iron timing cover, something that did change as time went on, and was dimensionally identical in every way to the 318 in Ben's Phoenix... and 318s I've pulled out of US-derived Case combine harvesters.
Where there is a change, and it's common to both Canadian and US engines, is the bellhousing bolt and dowel pattern. The lower bolts and the dowels were altered with the coming of the 1962 model year. It is possible, however, that Bristol engines were still made to the old pattern, as Chrysler Royals persisted with it in Australia too.
And there were other Polys, but none based on a Chrysler Hemi. But the basic A-engine remained. The blocks were dimensionally the same except for variations in bores, the heads were all the same, and the only difference between the 313 and the 318 is the bore size. The oil filter arrangement is purely a RHD variation, it puts a remote line onto the block where a filter goes on there in LHD vehicles. RHD trucks, both 318 and 313, have the filter fitted directly onto the block like the LHD ones.
I had a 313 I was playing with the other day... it was from a truck and had the oil filter screwed into the block. It had a cast iron timing cover, something that did change as time went on, and was dimensionally identical in every way to the 318 in Ben's Phoenix... and 318s I've pulled out of US-derived Case combine harvesters.
Where there is a change, and it's common to both Canadian and US engines, is the bellhousing bolt and dowel pattern. The lower bolts and the dowels were altered with the coming of the 1962 model year. It is possible, however, that Bristol engines were still made to the old pattern, as Chrysler Royals persisted with it in Australia too.
#113
Ron B.
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Posted 21 March 2009 - 21:55
originally all Chrysler polys (318 was not a Plymouth engine,only fitted to some ) were known as 'A' type(1955-58 Saratoga & Windsor 301, 331 & 354 poly heads were hemi blocks) Then in 1964 with the introduction of the small block Chyrsler engine the name remained A but the small block became the LA.
None of the other Polys are reffered to as A type,only by their size and manufacturer,or if you are really into traditional engines,type II and type III .
Prior to the closure of Desoto each name made their own Engines and the result is as I mentioned,nothing interchanges between the brands. I have to disagree with you on the 313 -318 interchange here,the 313 as you say has a Left oil filter where as ALL 318's reqardless of market have a oil filter fitting on the opposite side of the block. Try placing a 313 head on a 318 block and the length difference is immediatley apparent.
318 Chrysler
hEad diagram for 318 Chrysler for thise who think modern twisted wedge combustion chambers are the latest tech.;)
Here is a page of some of the Hemi and Poly specs. As can be seen the 318 and 313 are not listed,this is just the comparison of the HEMI and POLY interchanges. Unlike Ford or GM ,the variety available was enourmous and i might note that in 1955 alone Plymouth had 3 different size Polys!.
http://classichemi.c...x1.shtml#DodgeT
I've owned and worked on dozens of odd polys over the tears but can never claim any expert status on them.
None of the other Polys are reffered to as A type,only by their size and manufacturer,or if you are really into traditional engines,type II and type III .
Prior to the closure of Desoto each name made their own Engines and the result is as I mentioned,nothing interchanges between the brands. I have to disagree with you on the 313 -318 interchange here,the 313 as you say has a Left oil filter where as ALL 318's reqardless of market have a oil filter fitting on the opposite side of the block. Try placing a 313 head on a 318 block and the length difference is immediatley apparent.
318 Chrysler
hEad diagram for 318 Chrysler for thise who think modern twisted wedge combustion chambers are the latest tech.;)
Here is a page of some of the Hemi and Poly specs. As can be seen the 318 and 313 are not listed,this is just the comparison of the HEMI and POLY interchanges. Unlike Ford or GM ,the variety available was enourmous and i might note that in 1955 alone Plymouth had 3 different size Polys!.
http://classichemi.c...x1.shtml#DodgeT
I've owned and worked on dozens of odd polys over the tears but can never claim any expert status on them.
#114
thunder427
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Posted 22 March 2009 - 00:31
Question; how long has Chrysler been building Corvette engines?????????????????????????????
#115
Ron B.
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Posted 22 March 2009 - 02:54
Originally posted by thunder427
Question; how long has Chrysler been building Corvette engines?????????????????????????????
ha ha in the absence of any other pictiures of New Zealand's ' Corvette engines' ......we got off track.
#116
Peter Leversedge
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Posted 22 March 2009 - 06:44
Ron B perhaps we should start a thread on Chrysler engines!!
#117
Ron B.
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Posted 22 March 2009 - 07:00
how many if any,were ever raced on the circuits in Australasia? ,Not many id say. Plenty on the drag strips in OZ in the old days and the occasional boat. Although,oddly enough the dress up gear for Chrysler 318 Polys is made in Australia and is very popular in the United States.
#118
Ray Bell
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Posted 22 March 2009 - 08:13
I've been assured that one raced at Hume Weir occasionally... and one definitely raced at Bathurst in '67...
And I think Sid Sakzewski raced one at Lakeside on occasion. To my knowledge, none have ever been modified for road racing in Australia... yet.
And I think Sid Sakzewski raced one at Lakeside on occasion. To my knowledge, none have ever been modified for road racing in Australia... yet.
#119
thunder427
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Posted 22 March 2009 - 10:55
Ron B, Peter and Ray; There was nothing 'Personal' in my intention to keep the "Thread' to NZ Corvette powered race cars,Hatrat's great picture of the late-n-great Roddy Coppins and that Zephyr with the pipes was just one of those 'Wonderful' moments that only TNF can muster,I'm personally a 'Closet' MOPAR fan with a '69 Cuda tucked away for that 'HEMI' conversion ,Big and Little "Cragers", I"M feeling the 'GOOD VIBES'..............regards427
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#120
Peter Leversedge
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Posted 22 March 2009 - 21:53
thunder427 - your comment was not taken personally, we had got off track a bit and that is why I started the new thread
"Flathead Ford V8s For Ever"
"Flathead Ford V8s For Ever"
#122
johnny yuma
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Posted 24 March 2009 - 03:41
Went to Teratonga ,Invercargill in February.The Dauphine /chev was there all prettied up but got a hard punt from behind and retired on practice.Sunday it rained even more and most departed by lunch time.At Timaru 09 the Stanton Corvette,which I'd seen at Phillip Island in 07 with work being done on the chain drive still had the back up in 09,working on the chain drive!The mighty Lycoming all but won a race at Timaru,too much rain at Invers to tell how it really went.
Interesting in New Zealand,the cars are kept in "the putts" and fast cars starting from the back is a "Reverse Grud"....etc
Interesting in New Zealand,the cars are kept in "the putts" and fast cars starting from the back is a "Reverse Grud"....etc
#123
Lee Nicolle
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Posted 24 March 2009 - 07:14
On the right note how many Corvettes have raced in Oz and NZ. I can remember I think Warwick Henderson in the 70s or early 80s but there must be more. There has been quite a lot in drags ofcourse.
#124
Ron B.
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Posted 24 March 2009 - 08:12
Not so many Corvettes in NZ if any but plenty of Camaro's. The Wright brothers of Pukekohe had one each as street cars which had been circuit cars when new. Once they fell out of favour ,Norris and his Brother Ralph civilised them a bit and drove them all the time on the street.....;)
#125
Vicuna
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Posted 24 March 2009 - 09:56
Originally posted by johnny yuma
Interesting in New Zealand,the cars are kept in "the putts" and fast cars starting from the back is a "Reverse Grud"....etc
My Lord how we laughed at the brilliance and subtlety of the Yuma huma.
How about some sheep shagging jokes while you're at it. Really, you should be stand up - perhaps you do.
Baaa baa.
#126
David McKinney
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Posted 24 March 2009 - 11:54
I was going to mock the Australians for the reference to cars being in the "peets" and starting from a "greed" but decided it was all far too childish
#127
thunder427
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Posted 24 March 2009 - 11:58
A Corvette's that raced in the Australian Sports Car Class was the 1964 'Blue coupe' of Charlie Occhipinti this car was purchased by the Steve Wherret of "Holley Peformance" ( in Melbourne) with his close friend Roger Condon,I was given the 'Vette' to fit the L88 flares in all 4cnrs to suit the 15x10's......"And MJ, do something with the paint",....."How about RED,WHITE-N-BLUE !!!!!!??????....."YEP !!! That will work !" ,this car looked the 'Goods',but never reached its full potential ,as Steve's need for SPEED, ended his life in a, tragic, high speed boating accident,like a lot of things, the car was put away and eventually found its way back to the 'street,minus the 'Warpaint' and its outrageous 'Flares' ................regards427
#128
thunder427
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Posted 24 March 2009 - 12:45
....................I wish,also, to mention Warwick Henderson who was a 'Passionate' Corvette campaigner,here in Melbourne,(he was from the city of Geelong)with more than one Corvette in his stable,I mention Warrick fondly as a Gentleman,with Warrick if you asked a 'Fair' Question,you got a 'Very' imformative long answer,which in my experence was absolutely on the 'Money',unfortunatly, Warrick passed away before I could thank him for his wisdom............regards427
#129
Vicuna
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Posted 24 March 2009 - 17:24
Originally posted by David McKinney
I was going to mock the Australians for the reference to cars being in the "peets" and starting from a "greed" but decided it was all far too childish
;)
What an exotic thing word was 'Corvette' was to add to the end of your car's name in the 60s.
They could have been Stantion-Chevs, Anglia-Chevs, Zephyr Chevs, etc , and in a funny kind of way there were, but they weren't called that.
Corvette was 'with it' and mod in the 60s but did anyone in NZ/Aus actually try to refer to their re-engined car as being 'Chev powered' only to face an overwhelming force of media/commentators screaming 'Corvette'.
Chris Summers drove Chev powered cars but I don't recall seeing 'Cooper-Corvette'. Did Corvette not have the same 'ring' to it in the UK. (Or were the engines not from a Corvette?)
#130
johnny yuma
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Posted 24 March 2009 - 23:17
Thanks vicuna for your possibly sincere appreciation of the yuma huma.
If you really want sheep laughs,I suggest a listen to an AC DC cover band doing "Dirty Deeds-Done With Sheep" off the net.Bon Scott is perfectly channelled !
btw are those American sports cars called Corvutts in the Land of the long white cloud? Doesn't sound nearly as suxy.
If you really want sheep laughs,I suggest a listen to an AC DC cover band doing "Dirty Deeds-Done With Sheep" off the net.Bon Scott is perfectly channelled !
btw are those American sports cars called Corvutts in the Land of the long white cloud? Doesn't sound nearly as suxy.
#131
Ray Bell
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Posted 25 March 2009 - 00:23
Johnny... you only degrade the vowel sounds by one step each...
So 'a' becomes 'e', 'e' becomes 'i', 'i' disappears altogether, it's a nothing in the word, a silent space. The 'o' remains unsullied, as does the 'u'. And these rules don't apply to long vowel sounds, only short.
So 'sexy' becomes 's-xy', 'fish' becomes 'f-sh'... not 'fush! Now jump in the l-ft and go downsteers.
So 'a' becomes 'e', 'e' becomes 'i', 'i' disappears altogether, it's a nothing in the word, a silent space. The 'o' remains unsullied, as does the 'u'. And these rules don't apply to long vowel sounds, only short.
So 'sexy' becomes 's-xy', 'fish' becomes 'f-sh'... not 'fush! Now jump in the l-ft and go downsteers.
#132
Peter Leversedge
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Posted 25 March 2009 - 03:25
I changed from racing Flathead Ford V8s to Chev V8s in 1973 and aways refered to my engines as Chevs never Corvettes
#133
Michael Clark
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Posted 25 March 2009 - 03:28
Peter do you think the prestige that went with 'Corvette' in the 50s and 60s had largely gone by '73?
#134
johnny yuma
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Posted 25 March 2009 - 05:36
If Corvettes had any prestige as road racing "must-haves" it had disappeared by 1967 in NSW at least,if it ever existed.Anyone with real money in Australia went openwheeler ,or Can-Am style sports cars like Matich or Neil Allen.The closest we got was Chev engines--and there can't have been a world of difference between a hot Chev motor and a hot Corvette motor.Leon Pedzik used to have a 55 Chev in Sports (Closed) at Oran Park in the late 60s with a 265 ci motor but it was not a chop-up race car,more like a nice warm all-steel street car with proper seats,windows and doorhandles.Did 55 second laps,similar to the best Series Production XU1s.Nobody hinted at "Corvette "power.
I never saw an old Corvette achieve it's real potential until Don Thallon fronted at Wakefield Park in a 283c.i. 1960 Corvette in about 1998 ,and led home all the Group S historic sporties made in England,Italy,Germany whatever,huge holes cut in the big brake DRUMS blowing brake dust everywhere,raspy crisp little V8 intimidating the field in a straight line,Don's forceful driving staying ahead on the bends.He always had the best tyres too.
I never saw an old Corvette achieve it's real potential until Don Thallon fronted at Wakefield Park in a 283c.i. 1960 Corvette in about 1998 ,and led home all the Group S historic sporties made in England,Italy,Germany whatever,huge holes cut in the big brake DRUMS blowing brake dust everywhere,raspy crisp little V8 intimidating the field in a straight line,Don's forceful driving staying ahead on the bends.He always had the best tyres too.
#135
Lee Nicolle
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Posted 25 March 2009 - 06:46
I did not know that he had died. I saw him race the 'Vette in the 80s.And raced against him at Rallycross in the 70sOriginally posted by thunder427
....................I wish,also, to mention Warwick Henderson who was a 'Passionate' Corvette campaigner,here in Melbourne,(he was from the city of Geelong)with more than one Corvette in his stable,I mention Warrick fondly as a Gentleman,with Warrick if you asked a 'Fair' Question,you got a 'Very' imformative long answer,which in my experence was absolutely on the 'Money',unfortunatly, Warrick passed away before I could thank him for his wisdom............regards427
#136
Ron B.
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Posted 25 March 2009 - 08:17
I think I mentioned it before,but the little chevies are gaining favour with the younger enthusiasts who have discovered what most had forgotten in the race for cubic inch supremacy ,and that is the 265 and 283 are easy to build and quick to rev. Old 265's from 55's and 56's are worth a bucket load today because of this and they are very hard to find. Easy way to spot one is to look for the front engine mounts and no mounting lugs on the block. Even the once popular 327 is getting difficult to find.Originally posted by johnny yuma
If Corvettes had any prestige as road racing "must-haves" it had disappeared by 1967 in NSW at least,if it ever existed.Anyone with real money in Australia went openwheeler ,or Can-Am style sports cars like Matich or Neil Allen.The closest we got was Chev engines--and there can't have been a world of difference between a hot Chev motor and a hot Corvette motor.Leon Pedzik used to have a 55 Chev in Sports (Closed) at Oran Park in the late 60s with a 265 ci motor but it was not a chop-up race car,more like a nice warm all-steel street car with proper seats,windows and doorhandles.Did 55 second laps,similar to the best Series Production XU1s.Nobody hinted at "Corvette "power.
I never saw an old Corvette achieve it's real potential until Don Thallon fronted at Wakefield Park in a 283c.i. 1960 Corvette in about 1998 ,and led home all the Group S historic sporties made in England,Italy,Germany whatever,huge holes cut in the big brake DRUMS blowing brake dust everywhere,raspy crisp little V8 intimidating the field in a straight line,Don's forceful driving staying ahead on the bends.He always had the best tyres too.
The whole Corvette thing was only matched by the "Mustang" engine as demonstrated by Hamiltons Dane Plummer with his Mustang Stock car ,powered with a hot ....260.
#137
Peter Leversedge
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- 616 posts
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Posted 25 March 2009 - 11:09
Michael May be you are correct, my first Chev came out of one of Ron Silverter's shipping containers battered steel rockers covers and all.Would you belive I still have that engine today.Tuned it up, raced it, detuned it and put it in a road car!!
#138
thunder427
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- 353 posts
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Posted 25 March 2009 - 13:23
Peter ;Ron Slyvestor, Was a 'Mentor' to me,I have a great fondness for this very 'Colourful' Christchurch motor sport character,a true 'pioneer'in the every sense of the word,a very passionate automotive person,Car yards ,Parts Importer (pos one of the First in NZ) STORY;when the Canterbury Car Club aquired the land for the 'NOW' Ruapuna Raceway,lead by Ron, all the carsales(read;racecar drivers and Cant.Car Cub Members)burrowed trucks and 'Moonlighted as 'Truckdrivers' (Read no Heavy ridged lic.amongst them)carting Clay fron a'Private propertiy to the soon to be track,for the base of the tar surface,(I could right a book on that day,I was probably,13/14yrs old) Ron was the Ring Leader and yes!!, some 'Do-Gooder' Dobbed them in so, trucks were stranded ,full of 'Clay', all along the Route,so the two real 'Farrier Wiamack' drivers were picking up trucks,delivering to the site for emptying, with 'Big Bad' Ron running ferry service back to 'Grab'another truck ,I dont think the truck drivers had ever been that fast in a car before,it was also a day that everybody had to vote for government,I know two Truckies'who didn't and a 'laughing' bunch of 'Used' carsales men...Ron was a gentleman with the ladies,but a Mans Man, amongest his peers..................opps rambled...regards427
#139
Michael Clark
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- 287 posts
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Posted 25 March 2009 - 18:51
Originally posted by Peter Leversedge
Michael May be you are correct, my first Chev came out of one of Ron Silverter's shipping containers battered steel rockers covers and all.Would you belive I still have that engine today.Tuned it up, raced it, detuned it and put it in a road car!!
What sort?
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#140
Lee Nicolle
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- 11,069 posts
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Posted 25 March 2009 - 21:22
The 265s and 283s are becoming real collectors pieces. All these people that hotrodded early V8 Chevs are now restoring them to original.
Really they are no real performance piece though ofcourse early 283s can be [just] bored 4" making a 302 which you can then use big valve heads and they always were a real revver.Not ideal for big heavy tall geared cars though.
Who knows much about 409s? They are seemingly a good engine but quite a mystery. I have seen 2, 1 in Norm Beecheys Impala and one on very rough 56 at an importers. where they used in Vettes or just full size cars?
Really they are no real performance piece though ofcourse early 283s can be [just] bored 4" making a 302 which you can then use big valve heads and they always were a real revver.Not ideal for big heavy tall geared cars though.
Who knows much about 409s? They are seemingly a good engine but quite a mystery. I have seen 2, 1 in Norm Beecheys Impala and one on very rough 56 at an importers. where they used in Vettes or just full size cars?
#141
johnny yuma
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- 928 posts
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Posted 25 March 2009 - 23:12
The 409 appeared in the mid- 1961 Impala SS when GM decided to ignore the 1957 guideline from the AMA about building supercars. Through the Corvette range until 1965 no big blocks were installed,and GM still had it's own policy of nothing over 400c.i. in "compacts",but,when alarmed by the 427 Cobras, GM went for a 396ci in the Vette for 1965,next a 427 from 66 on.The unofficial power race was on again after a lull in 1957.The 396,409 and 427 were all based on a truck engine of 348c.i. which was the only big block GM had in their toyshop in 1958 when the need for more torque became obvious as their cars grew heavier and the boffins and racing guys started warming up the 348 truck motor. Shades of the 8 litre Viper V10,also truck sourced !
BTW the 327 was a 283,bored, with a new,stroker,crank.
BTW the 327 was a 283,bored, with a new,stroker,crank.
#142
Ray Bell
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- 80,244 posts
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Posted 25 March 2009 - 23:22
I don't know about the bottom end, but the 396 had a totally different head layout from memory...
And that head layout went on to the 427s soon afterwards.
I'm inclined to think that these 396-derived engines were a different animal to 348-based ones.
And that head layout went on to the 427s soon afterwards.
I'm inclined to think that these 396-derived engines were a different animal to 348-based ones.
#143
johnny yuma
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- 928 posts
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Posted 26 March 2009 - 00:01
Without quoting the chapter and verse from Richard Langworths Chev books,the improved 396 with the so- called "porcupine head" with inclined valves ,and a strengthened bottom end, was based on an earlier 427 which was a bored out 409 which was the worked over 348 truck engine from 1958. Like the Mopar saga of similar but non-interchangeable parts,the permutations seem endless and ultimately not all that terribly interesting to any but the completely obsessed !!
And yes that porcupine head did end up on the later 427s---from which earlier version the 396 was derived !!
Makes similar sense to an Escher drawing really !
And yes that porcupine head did end up on the later 427s---from which earlier version the 396 was derived !!
Makes similar sense to an Escher drawing really !
#144
Peter Leversedge
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- 616 posts
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Posted 26 March 2009 - 03:27
Micheal in answer your question "What sort?" The engine was a small journal crank 327 with a Qjet and large valve heads as it came out of the container. I "hotted" it up and ran it in a Super Modified [Which I used in beach racing, tar seal circuit racing, hill climbs, drag racing and speedway racing. Won the NZ Beach Racing Championship Race with it] I then put it back to as I got it, put in my Pontiac Laurentian road car and drove it thousands of miles until I couid no longer get a WOF due to rust in the body. I still have the car in storage intending to restore it "one day". It was a good old engine
#145
Bruce302
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- 134 posts
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Posted 26 March 2009 - 05:39
The 348 and 409 were known as the W series, and I think there was a 427 version, very briefly, possibly in proto form only.
The Mk IV "big block" (porcupine haed, due to the multi angled valve stems, 5 degrees different in both directions )started with the 396, then the 427, which was a bored 396, though same stroke, then 454, which had the 427 bore, but longer stroke. There was a 366 ci truck engine in the Mk IV and it and the 427 were also made in truck versions which had a taller deck (i.e. longer crank C/L to deck surface measurement)
These were the basis of the engines so popular with Can Am in McLarens, Lolas and Chaparrels in various iterations up to 9 litre.
Nice and simple, with enough torque to tilt the earths axis
The Mk IV "big block" (porcupine haed, due to the multi angled valve stems, 5 degrees different in both directions )started with the 396, then the 427, which was a bored 396, though same stroke, then 454, which had the 427 bore, but longer stroke. There was a 366 ci truck engine in the Mk IV and it and the 427 were also made in truck versions which had a taller deck (i.e. longer crank C/L to deck surface measurement)
These were the basis of the engines so popular with Can Am in McLarens, Lolas and Chaparrels in various iterations up to 9 litre.
Nice and simple, with enough torque to tilt the earths axis
#146
johnny yuma
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- 928 posts
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Posted 26 March 2009 - 10:09
Boy did Paul Stubber's 6.5 litre Lola hammer at the 09 Phillip Island historics !!! Hunted down that Sauber Mercedes with the gold foil firewall and left him.
#147
Milan Fistonic
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- 1,769 posts
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Posted 04 April 2009 - 04:34
Originally posted by Ron B.
I don't remember Rileys' 105E ever being red,it was green and white when I used to see it. May have been painted afterwards but it was a very ordinary car even in those days. there quite few Zephyr 6 and V6 anglias about in those days and with mate I repowered a couple of E93A Anglia's with Chevies.
This is from the November 5 1966 meeting at Pukekohe.
It proves that the Doyle and Riley cars were two different beasts as they are both in the same race.
I think this was the first appearance of the Riley car (Motorman refers to it in its report as "Riley's new Anglia Oldsmobile)
I always remember the car being red.
The result of the race was Fahey, Nazer, Franicevic (after starting from the rear of the grid), Coppins, Doyle and Riley
#148
David McKinney
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Posted 04 April 2009 - 05:55
..and a TNFer in the field too
#149
Milan Fistonic
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Posted 04 April 2009 - 06:40
I've just noticed that Robbie Franicevic is not listed in the programme.
This was the debut appearance of the "ugly 7-litre Galaxie engined Customline Monster" as it was described in Motorman. Of course it became known as the Custaxie.
This was the debut appearance of the "ugly 7-litre Galaxie engined Customline Monster" as it was described in Motorman. Of course it became known as the Custaxie.
#150
cm50
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- 63 posts
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Posted 04 April 2009 - 06:46
The Riley Anglia Oldsmobile I am certain was a candy apple red
