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Rondeau cars

Started by Gerard Gamand , Oct 31 2007 15:18

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111 replies to this topic

#51 gerard BARATHIEU

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 16:50

#52 gerard BARATHIEU

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 16:52

#53 T54

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 16:57

Gerard,
both pictures (the white and black cars) were taken at the 1982 Daytona 24-hour race. The white car is of course the Bill Koll/Skeeter McKitterick "Golden Eagle Racing" M382-Cosworth, while the black car is that of the Gary Belcher team.

The blue car is of course an M482 several years after the Otis works cars had been sold after Jean Rondeau's death and the demise of the company.

#54 AMICALEMANS

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 17:15

The blue one is the well known 001 M482 at Le Mans 1984 . jean rondeau was still alive at this time and running Le Mans 84 with Preston Henn in his 956, finishing 3rd.

1983 Rondeau M 482 001 4001 N°26 C Ford Concessionnaires France
1984 Rondeau M 482 001 4001 N°37 C Mc Cormack et Dodge
1985 Rondeau M 482 001 4001 N°67 C Jean Philippe Grand
1986 Rondeau M 482 001 4001 N°47 C Graff Racing
1987 Rondeau M 482 001 4001 N°40 C Graff Racing

This car is still owned by JP Grand and displayed at the Le Mans Museum in 1983 livery : white with support of Ford Concessionnaires France (Ford French dealers)

There have never been an Otis M482 : only M379 and M382

#55 gerard BARATHIEU

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 18:01

AMICALEMANS,

this is this one ?

#56 gerard BARATHIEU

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 18:17

The only man whon whon LE MANS with his own car

#57 AMICALEMANS

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 18:47

nope GEGE, the 001 is and stay at the Le Mans Museum. http://www.endurance...id=2977&thold=0 Just have alook at the end of the page (with number 26)

Where did you take this pic ?

#58 T54

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 19:02

There have never been an Otis M482 : only M379 and M382

I attended the very first test on the Bugatti track of the M482, painted in OTIS colors... I actually have nice pictures, stay tuned.

#59 AMICALEMANS

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 19:05

Yes i know it was just for testing on the M482, but during Le Mans race, no M482 wore Otis colour...

#60 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 19:11

This is an M482 in blue Otis colors

I believe it was in England ??

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#61 AMICALEMANS

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 19:24

Never see this pic ! its Francois Migault at the wheel... Still searching where it was ...

And i found it here : http://www.racingspo...5-16-photo.html
It was at Silverstone 6 hours
The M482 never had a glorious race :

#62 T54

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 19:32

Gerard, I was going to post this very picture... also in my files.
I just scanned the first few (I have over 100 pictures) and will post them in a few minutes.

T54

#63 AMICALEMANS

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 19:34

i stay online, please go on T54... (i know rondeau only thru the 24 hours of Le Mans)

#64 T54

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 20:20

Just to get started:

Most of these works pictures have never been published. First, the wind-tunnel model of the M382:

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Now the wind-tunnel model of the M482 created at the very same time:

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The M482 in the Eiffel 1/10-scale wind tunnel:

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The M482 larger 1/4 scale wind-tunnel model in OTIS colors:

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I will scan more as soon as I have a minute.

Regards,

T54

#65 AMICALEMANS

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 20:43

i can only say ! :love:

and ad that i lived near the Eiffel wind tunnel !

#66 962C

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 20:52

Very interesting pictures! :up:

For what they're worth, a few, less ambitious pictures of the rebuilt Inaltera nr.1 (I assume it's chassis 001) at the "Festival Automobile Historique" in St Cloud near Paris in 2005:

#67 AMICALEMANS

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 20:58

Yes its 001 which ran at Le Mans 3 times in 76 with number 1, in 77 with number 88 and in 79 with number 71 under Chevalley Colour.

and if you can speak french : http://forums.motorl...ead.php?t=17477
but you can also only look at some pics !

#68 gerard BARATHIEU

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 21:03

nope GEGE, the 001 is and stay at the Le Mans Museum. http://www.endurance...id=2977&thold=0 Just have alook at the end of the page (with number 26)

Where did you take this pic ?

AMICALEMANS ,

the name of the driver on the second pic is JP.GRAND.

I think it is the same car who is now at the LE MANS MUSEUM.

I think the pic was taken at some RETROMOBILE event: I don't remember the year.

I hace two others RONDEAU in this place at the sament event.

best salutations.

#69 Bonde

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 21:33

Very interesting, thanks, T54! :up:

Apart from those drooping 'buttocks' behind the rear wheels, the M482 certainly looks the bees knees!

BTW, does anyone recall the story of how Rondeau came to build Reynard chassis for what I belive was the introduction of Formula Ford in France (there's a chassis there in the background in the photo in Gerard's post #56) - or did Rondeau buy the finished chassis from Reynard and then just added their own, very French (Choulet?), bodywork? From the descriptions of Reynard's and Rondeau's personalities, I could imagine some fireworks in a working relationship between Jean Rondeau and Adrian Reynard...

#70 AMICALEMANS

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 21:47

M482 001 was driven in SILVERSTONE by Migault Rondeau
then In LM 83 under number 26 and 84 under numbre 37; then Jean-Philippe Grand, founder of Graff racing bought the car in 1985, and ran it at Le Mans in 85 86 and 87.... and he stil own it !

#71 T54

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 22:34

Anders,
I will tell the story of the Rondeau F/F a bit later after we go through the Inaltera/M379/M382/M482 first.
It is a bit convoluted.

#72 Bonde

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 23:51

Thanks, T54 - it sounds intrigueing...

#73 Twin Window

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 01:35

An interesting thread.

All I can offer photographically are a couple of pics I took during the 1981 Le Mans 24 Hours;

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The Migault/Spice entry

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The sister car of Schlesser/Streiff/Haran

I might have another one somewhere...

#74 Twin Window

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 00:29

I found another two, but I'm sure I've got a couple more somewhere now I think about it... :rolleyes:

Pescarolo/Tambay

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Two Rondeau visible on the grid shortly before the start; the light-coloured [yellow] one on the right of row two is the Pescarolo/Tambay car, with the Rondeau/Jaussaud Otis entry nearest on row three.

All the above pics were taken from the old press box thingy.

#75 T54

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 01:11

Stuart,
Thanks for the pics! The yellow "Oceanic" is the one in which I had an interesting ride as a passenger with Henri... at least if gave me a basic understanding of the car for many years later when it was my turn to drive one.

I will scan more pictures at the end of the week, I am afraid that my schedule is a bit insane right now.

#76 Muzza

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 01:23

Originally posted by Bonde
Very interesting, thanks, T54! Apart from those drooping 'buttocks' behind the rear wheels, the M482 certainly looks the bees knees!

BTW, does anyone recall the story of how Rondeau came to build Reynard chassis for what I belive was the introduction of Formula Ford in France (there's a chassis there in the background in the photo in Gerard's post #56) - or did Rondeau buy the finished chassis from Reynard and then just added their own, very French (Choulet?), bodywork? From the descriptions of Reynard's and Rondeau's personalities, I could imagine some fireworks in a working relationship between Jean Rondeau and Adrian Reynard...

I just wanted to echo Bonde's words - I'm also very interested in any information on the Reynard/Rondeau Formula Fords... They were produced under license in Brazil by a nice fellow named Joel Queiroz, who named the cars JQ. These were the first single-seaters I tinkered with - in fact, the first racing car altogether. This brings lots of fond memories.

(Sadly Queiroz - as Rondeau - had a very untimely death...

)

Thanks,

Sal / Muzza

#77 Twin Window

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 01:33

Originally posted by T54

The yellow "Oceanic" is the one in which I had an interesting ride as a passenger with Henri...

I had the chance to passenger Pescarolo for a lap in the New Man Porsche 956 prior to the 24 three years later! However I turned it down and instead nominated my so-called *colleague* who'd stitched me up regarding my accreditation at Monaco a couple of weeks earlier! Sadly she emerged unscathed...

And, if I'm totally honest, I wouldn't have gone for the ride anyway. Not the best of passengers, me!

#78 T54

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 02:00

I once had a woman passenger throwing up in a Viper GTS pace car I was driving at a rather brisk pace... : But I also know that I would probably do the same if pushed, I am not that good of a passenger either!

Fortunately with Henri, it was before lunch.

#79 dretceterini

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 16:04

This is the best looking Rondeau, IMO. I would love more photos so I can make decals to use on one of the Bizzare 1/43rd scale diecasts

http://www.racingspo...6-06-01-045.jpg

#80 Phigr7

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Posted 20 December 2007 - 19:20

Originally posted by dretceterini
This is the best looking Rondeau, IMO. I would love more photos so I can make decals to use on one of the Bizzare 1/43rd scale diecasts

http://www.racingspo...6-06-01-045.jpg

Sorry, that's all that I've.

Wednesday

Saturday

#81 dretceterini

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Posted 21 December 2007 - 01:43

Originally posted by Phigr7
Sorry, that's all that I've.

Wednesday

Saturday

Thanks!

#82 rdrcr

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 15:10

Originally posted by T54
... As far as the le Mans winner, there is a controversy about which chassis it is. MY opinion is that the car in the USA is the right one, but financial reasons MAY have caused the company to sell another chassis as the actual car at an auction in Paris a few years back. Frankly, I do not have enough evidence to say one way or the other but there are distinct details in 379-02 that appear to match with period pictures and would confirm it as the "right" car...

FWIW - back in '95, I took a look at the Le Point Car at Strauss' shop for some time. Its appearance smacked of a well used racing car. I was only wondering if this was the car you drove at Laguna. If you did, could you confirm my recollection that I saw Le Mans tech stickers on that car? (Hindsight being 20/20 I wish I had taken pics as I had my camera with me...)

By tracing the lineage of each chassis from their current owners may be a good start. Some questions spring to mind - Who was the seller of the car in France? Did they have access to the factory warehouse? What about the documentation, tags tech stickers and the like? ... I've seen some pretty good faux patina recently - could they have been duplicated?

Thanks in advance for the additional info -

#83 T54

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 16:03

It indeed had the tech stickers on the car. Not that it proves anything but they were definitely the real thing.

#84 AMICALEMANS

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 20:02

Both cars ran Le Mans several times under differents skin and colour. the onlt way to know is to check some specifics pieces of the car. But, i am 80% confident that the Le Mans winner was not sold in US... It was easy to change the chassis plate and put the body of the Le Mans winner or of the sister carwhich ran under the same colour ITT-Le Point.

#85 T54

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 20:14

Of course, and subsequently the opposite could well be true...
The stickers on the car were the correct 1980 stickers for the correct car number. The patina on the car looked very correct and there is little doubt in my mind that the body panels are authentic. I will have a conversation with Lucien Monte about who did what, if facts can indeed be told without papers flying from legal office to legal office...
I will soon resume the posting of unpublished pictures.

#86 AMICALEMANS

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 20:31

do you speak about official stickers on the body , or some stickers inside on the tube ? Just because fot the "outside" stickers,it did nor prove anything..., and its easy to modify the 15 (sister car) in 16 (the wining car ! in fact 16 finished the 1980 race with the front hood of the number 15 car; keep searching...

#87 T54

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 20:48

The outside stickers were originals and each car has its own number, this one #16. There were tech-inspection stickers on the frame inside the cockpit and in the engine compartment that also were dated from 1980 and had car # 16 on them. I compared the pictures I have of the le Mans winning car pictured in many magazines with the body on that car and it was obvious that at least the body panels were indeed from the winning car, as small details are different from one car to the next and could never have been reproduced to that level of detail.
When the "winning" car was sold at the Palais des Congres years later, I was told that in fact that car had been built for a customer from bits stockpiled at la Breaute and painted to look like the winning car because the Rondeau employees themselves did not really know which one of the chassis actually won the race. It was a question of selling a car and getting some needed cash.
However, ANYTHING could have happened. The story I was told then could also have been incorrect, but there was no reason for anyone to tell a story then.

#88 AMICALEMANS

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 08:45

First : Happy new year to all of you :clap:

out some
Second : Thw T54 for your story about the frame of the winning car...

As you know stickers dot not prove anything... and we have then to search a specification of this car... do you remember who sold it and which year it was ?

#89 T54

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Posted 02 January 2008 - 17:58

Happy New Year to you too.
As far as your question, I do not have a clue and I don't even know where the car is today. :

#90 darky

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 17:44

Hallo Rondeau fans!

I'm participant in one Game-Mod project aimed on prototype cars and I search some pics for skin painting. Especially I'm interested in Rondeau M382-001 and -002 from IMSA 1982-1985. I know the pics from www.racingsportscars.com but not all logos is possible identify. So please if you have some next pics then send me it on email or attach it here in forum.

Thank you very much.

Regards

Darky

PS.: I am sorry for my bad english.

#91 Leon113

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 23:15

I'm interested in the Rondeau venture into Formula Fords. I own a Rondeau M585 FF2000, Chassis 023, and have been looking for background information for years. Does anyone know if this type formula car is still active anywhere, vintage or otherwise?

#92 AMICALEMANS

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 11:26

Still waiting for T54 pictures !

#93 drivers71

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 12:33

Gerard
My only Rondeau photos, from Le Mans 1981 and Silverstone 1982.
If anyone would like higher res copies of any of them, it would be my pleasure. PM me please.
Rich

Le Mans 1981:

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Silverstone 6 Hours 1982:

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#94 T54

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 17:26

Still waiting for T54 pictures !

I apologize for not having kept my promise. I am so behind many things I need to do...
They WILL be coming, be sure of that. I am in touch with Lucien Monte, the former gearbox ace for Rondeau, who is running a vintage racing shop nowadays.
I plan to attend a Rondeau reunion that is supposed to happen relatively soon, and Lucien is trying to get me a drive in one of the cars. That would be nice since it has been 8 years since I drove the le Mans-winning car at Laguna Seca.
I am presently in the south of France and will be until mid-October, but will make an effort to scan more pictures and post them. I have a LOT of them... never published, some very technical, others simply... interesting.
Regards,

T54

#95 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 19:34

Many thanks Rich Harman !

Some news of Rondeau cars with this link

http://www.autodiva....ic.php?f=2&t=29

#96 URY914

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 15:32

I have a few pictures that I took of the cars at the 1977 Daytona 24 hour race.

They are on my flickr site- link below...

#97 AMICALEMANS

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Posted 27 September 2008 - 07:13

Thanks URY914, at this time it was still an Inaltera

#98 URY914

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 01:52

Daytona 24 Hours 1982

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#99 URY914

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 01:58

#100 T54

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 00:36

Nice pictures...
I promised to post some of the documents from my involvement with Rondeau and a year has passed, I apologize for the delay due to simply too many things to do. I will try to do this more regularly now. Here are the technical characteristics of the M379 and a really nice pic of Jean Rondeau talking shop with Henri Pescarolo during a test session on the Bugatti track in 1981:

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