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Which team has the strongest line-up in 2008

Started by Arion , Dec 15 2007 00:41

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90 replies to this topic

Poll: Which team has the strongest line-up in 2008 (393 member(s) have cast votes)

Ferrari (232 votes [59.03%])
Percentage of vote: 59.03%
McLaren (72 votes [18.32%])
Percentage of vote: 18.32%
Renault (28 votes [7.12%])
Percentage of vote: 7.12%
Williams (1 votes [0.25%])
Percentage of vote: 0.25%
BMW (29 votes [7.38%])
Percentage of vote: 7.38%
Redbull (13 votes [3.31%])
Percentage of vote: 3.31%
Honda (5 votes [1.27%])
Percentage of vote: 1.27%
Toyota (3 votes [0.76%])
Percentage of vote: 0.76%
STR (6 votes [1.53%])
Percentage of vote: 1.53%
Super Aguri (4 votes [1.02%])
Percentage of vote: 1.02%

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#51 PassWind

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 12:50

MS/AS/AP/FIA*KGB^CCCP-FBI*SQR(KR)

I think if this code is cracked we will find the MASTER MIND of the all the SPYGATE scandals this year.

#52 GustavoB

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 13:19

Ferrari is ahead of everybody else.
2. Renault
3. McLaren
4. BMW

#53 Takaya Todoroki

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 13:20

I think it's a close call between Ferrari, McLaren and Renault. But Ferrari and Renault have proven and experienced world champions, and I think Massa will outperform Kovalainen on average. So I vote Ferrari.

Lewis is obviously top material but every rookie sensation looks slightly worse in their second year due to the hype.

#54 MortenF1

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 15:59

Originally posted by HSJ
IMHO, driver pairs:

1. Ferrari
2. BMW
3. Red Bull
4. Honda
5. McLaren, Toro Rosso
7. Renault
8. Toyota
9. India, Aguri

Seems like a sensible list, but it continues to amaze me how you refuse to recognize Hamilton's talent. Him and Kovalainen will form an exceptional line-up I think. I'd definately put them second.
Seventh for Renault might seem low but the question mark clearly is Piquet Jr. Based on feel though, I think him and Alonso have to rank in higher.

#55 EVO2

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 17:36

HSJ clearly has a downer on McLaren !

How can anyone judge McLaren's driver line up as only the equal of Toro Rosso's !

If we are only considering DRIVER capability, with due respect to experience and speed I would suggest :

Ferrari
McLaren + Renault + Honda
Red Bull
BMW
Toyota
Toro Rosso
Aguri
India

I've put McLaren and Renault as equal because Hamilton is clearly as fast as Alonso, is a lot stronger mentally but hasn't the experience. To balance this out I put HK ahead of NPJr because he has actually raced for a season in F1. Also Flavio unwisely gave in to Alonso and replaced HK with NPJr. Presumably this was because Alonso thought him to be too much or a threat and he wasn't prepared to sign up as a No 2 driver. What Finn would ?

One assumes therefore that either NPJr is not as fast, or, unlike HK, he was prepared to sign a contract forbidding him to do lap times close to those of Alonso. McLaren got the better deal by signing HK, but overall the McLaren and Renault driver line ups must be about equal.

As for the others, is anyone seriously saying that Hamilton is not a whole lot faster than either BMW driver ?

If we are looking at overall RACE PROSPECTS, car and driver, then I would go for

McLaren = Ferrari
BMW = Renault
Red Bull
Honda
Toro Rosso
Toyota
Aguri

Big gap then :

India

Regrettably, even with Ross Brawn on board, Honda are not likely to be able to produce the car their excellent drivers deserve in 2008.

#56 lustigson

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 19:07

I you'd put all the driver combinations in the same cars -- and not 1 combo in Ferraris, the other in Red Bulls et cetera -- there's quite a bunch of good duos, actually. So, looking at previous performances, here's my list:

1. Ferrari - 2 race winners, 1 WDC
2. Renault - 1 double WDC, 1 rookie with potential
= Honda - 2 race winners, 1 WDC runner-up
4. McLaren - 1 race winner and WDC runner-up, 1 highly-touted sophomore
5. Red Bull - 1 race winner and WDC runner-up, 1 steady points scorer
6. Toyota - 1 race winner, 1 highly potential rookie (7th on his debut in a Jordan-Ford)
7. BMW Sauber - 2 steady points scorers
8. Force India - 1 race winner (if Fisico joins), 1 rookie with potential
9. Williams - 1 steady points scorer, 1 rookie
= Toro Rosso - 1 highly-touted rookie, 1 four-time Champ Car champion
11. Super Aguri - 1 points scorer, 1 steady racer (if Davidson stays)

#57 predatore

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 19:28

Renault.

#58 Agnis

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 07:46

If Ferrari is ahead of everybody else, it's not because of drivers. Kimi is decent but Massa was taken to the team as the most likely driver to NOT challenge ageing MS' #1 status.

1. McLaren - two talented potential champions already at theyr peak.
2. Toro Rosso - two potential future champions.
3. Renault - best current driver and maybe a potential future champ.
4. BMW.Sauber - Kubica is the real deal, only needs a little bit more luck and experience. Heidfeld is a good driver but just lacks that champion spark. 2007 will stay his best season.
5. Ferrari - this year spygate saved them, next year it may be just the car.
6. Honda - Button is still up there, Barrichello is over his peak but can make a surprise in some races.
7. Red Bull - Webber worse than Button but Coulthard is in the best form among veterans.
8. Force India (with Fisichella) - one still quite good veteran and young talent.
9. Williams - Rosberg is very good, but Nakajima may be an anchor that draws Frank's team down here.
10. Toyota - Trulli has deproved during recent seasons, Glock is nothing special - already drove F1, Champ Car without big impression, won GP2 against much less experienced drivers many years after his debut in the series.
11. Super Aguri

#59 Slowinfastout

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 08:20

Originally posted by Agnis
If Ferrari is ahead of everybody else, it's not because of drivers. Kimi is decent but Massa was taken to the team as the most likely driver to NOT challenge ageing MS' #1 status.

...

5. Ferrari - this year spygate saved them, next year it may be just the car.

...

Honestly, this pretty much voids your post.
I prefer lustigson's analysis. I would be inclined to rate STR and maybe Williams drivers a little higher as well but not to that extent. I would also rate the McLaren drivers above the Honda pair, they're fresh and havent just had a massively disappointing season.

Whats wrong with Kimi exactly?

heres my take..

1. Ferrari - 2 race winners, 1 WDC
2. McLaren - 1 race winner and WDC runner-up, 1 highly-touted sophomore
3. Renault - 1 double WDC, 1 rookie with potential
4. Honda - 2 race winners, 1 WDC runner-up
5. Red Bull - 1 race winner and WDC runner-up, 1 steady points scorer
6. BMW Sauber - 2 steady points scorers
7. Toro Rosso - 1 highly-touted rookie, 1 four-time Champ Car champion
8. Williams - 1 steady points scorer, 1 rookie
9. Toyota - 1 race winner, 1 highly potential rookie (7th on his debut in a Jordan-Ford)
10. Force India - 1 race winner (if Fisico joins), 1 rookie with potential
11. Super Aguri - 1 points scorer, 1 steady racer (if Davidson stays)

I'm really unsure about the first two. I like Kimi alot but I would surely take Hamilton or Kovalainen over Massa, for some reason..

#60 Agnis

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 08:35

Originally posted by Slowinfastout

Whats wrong with Kimi exactly?

Nothing. Good driver, but I think too overhyped. Alonso and Hamilton are better drivers and he keeps 3rd in my list just because most drivers haven't had the circumstances like Kimi in the right stage of theyr careers. You never know what they could achieve in his place. Also his title was not won the way it was predicted.
But the real anchor that draws Ferrari down to 5th in my list regarding drivers, is Massa.

#61 Slowinfastout

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 08:46

Originally posted by Agnis

Nothing. Good driver, but I think too overhyped.

You cant be WDC and be overhyped... I mean.. just look at the F1 websites.. nobody talks about him.. Ferrari signed him because he always has been bloody quick...

The 'hype' that Kimi created was born out of his speed and that 'iceman' attitude..

You can blame the amazing amount of mechanical breakdowns in his career but unlike others there doesnt seem to be a mental breakdown in sight... thats important too.. on and off the track..

#62 Arion

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 08:53

Originally posted by Slowinfastout

Whats wrong with Kimi exactly?

Nothing. Kimi is decent, Hamilton/Alonso is magnificent. :rotfl:

Relax mate, "decent" is still quite positive

#63 Slowinfastout

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 08:58

Originally posted by Arion

Nothing. Kimi is decent, Hamilton/Alonso is magnificent.

Relax mate, "decent" is still quite positive

I'm quite relaxed.. was that just trolling or you really believe the F2007 was slow enough compared to the MP4-22 to explain the difference between 'decent' and 'magnificient'??

Its not that complicated heh..

#64 Arion

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 09:19

Originally posted by Slowinfastout

I'm quite relaxed.. was that just trolling or you really believe the F2007 was slow enough compared to the MP4-22 to explain the difference between 'decent' and 'magnificient'??

Its not that complicated heh..

Saying "driver A is good, and driver B is better" is trolling?

It's called opinion.

Kimi's fans are sooooo sensitive, anything less than adulation is trolling.

What makes you think I believe F2007 was slow? :confused:

quite the opposite, I believe F2007 was faster than MP4-22. and what has it got to do with how I rate Kimi, Hamilton and Alonso?

#65 Slowinfastout

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 09:24

Originally posted by Arion

Saying "driver A is good, and driver B is better" is trolling?

It's called opinion.

Kimi's fans are sooooo sensitive, anything less than adulation is trolling.

What makes you think I believe F2007 was slow? quite the opposite, I believe F2007 was faster than MP4-22. and what has it got to do with how I rate Kimi, Hamilton and Alonso?

Thanks, that explains it..

I'm not a sensitive Kimi fan.. I'm a racing fan...

so.. what makes you think the Ferrari was the faster car? :clap:

#66 Arion

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 09:34

Originally posted by Slowinfastout

Thanks, that explains it..

I'm not a sensitive Kimi fan.. I'm a racing fan...

so.. what makes you think the Ferrari was the faster car?

good, I'm a racing fan too and Kimi is a true racer, so is Hamilton ;)

Because Ferrari was faster on more tracks, so overall faster.

#67 Slowinfastout

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 09:44

The point is they all came within 1 point in the championship in a season that featured a giant spy scandal that would seem to imply some sort of parity between the teams... this is as close to spec as you ever gonna get (supposedly)...

I'm not being a fanboy I try to be realistic.. :eek:

#68 Peter Perfect

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 10:13

Originally posted by Ricardo F1
Ferrari over McLaren by the edge of experience. Pace wise it might be the other way around but experience counts at this level.

My view too.

#69 Owen

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 11:40

McLaren (bet you never saw that coming). :rolleyes:

But come on, they've got Hamilton.

#70 F575 GTC

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 14:36

From the off it'll be Ferrari; but if Heikki can match what Lewis achieved this year, then McLaren's certainly in with a shout.

#71 polymath

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 14:57

Hamilton is still an unproven leader IMO. As far as stability is concerned it has to be Ferrari.

#72 F1 Tor.

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 16:22

Have to give it to Ferrari. They have continuity with their drivers and now that Kimi has won a WDC, I'm sure some of that "pressure to win" will make him even better. Close call for second place, though. I think Lewis and Heikki will be awesome but it's their car I'm not sure about. Following the latest developments, who knows where they are. That's why I'd give the edge to BMW for now. Renault comes in 4th but I'm sure Alonso will get everyone fired up and the car will be better this year for sure. After that I have no clue-what Newey comes up with, how much Ross can do at Honda, etc. So many unanswered questions. :wave:

#73 EVO2

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 17:20

This thread has proven to be almost unique for this site with so little dispute as to which team has potentially the best line up for 2008.

So let's stir it up a bit : assuming equal treatment, who would be the best two drivers in your dream team ?
( Assuming someone in the team is capable of managing the action across the garage ).

Obviously Alonso would not want to be considered for the team.

My vote goes for Kimi and Lewis in a Prodrive McLaren - with the team being managed by Dave Richards

#74 Brian O Flaherty

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 00:02

Based purely on the fact that I believe Kimi is the naturally fastest driver on the grid I've gone for Ferrari. Everything else is inconsequential if you can't beat the lead man.

#75 Classic Ferrari

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 00:31

Originally posted by EVO2
This thread has proven to be almost unique for this site with so little dispute as to which team has potentially the best line up for 2008.

So let's stir it up a bit : assuming equal treatment, who would be the best two drivers in your dream team ?
( Assuming someone in the team is capable of managing the action across the garage ).

Obviously Alonso would not want to be considered for the team.

My vote goes for Kimi and Lewis in a Prodrive McLaren - with the team being managed by Dave Richards

As much as this has been talked about or rumored about for some time, I still believe Alonso and Kimi in Ferarri. I doubt we would see Alonso feeling the same way towards Kimi as he did Hamilton, I believe that there would be an honest mutual respect and recognition among both drivers and the team itself as to the ability and credentials of both drivers. I also think the whole team dynamic in Ferrari is far different to that of Mclaren and would suit someone of Alonso's ability and character. With both drivers not posseing the overwhelming prestige that Schumacher had over drivers such as Barrichello, I'm sure we would see a situation unfold were no one driver is favored but certainly in a long term perspective may, depending on performance. Though this could open up a brand new can of worms.

#76 jonpollak

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 00:45

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
McLaren, Kovalainen is at least as fast as Massa. Maybe Renault are too, but we don't know enough about Piquet in F1 terms, though I'd expect him to be able to handle Massa.

Right On
Don't get me wrong ..Williams is my favorite team but I really wish Nico had a top line drive...
Jp

#77 Mauseri

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 01:04

1. Ferrari
2. McLaren
3. Renault
4. BMW
5. Honda
6. ToroRosso

Ferrari 1, because Kimi is throughoutly proven quantity by now, Massa run him and Schumi close, and Kovalainen has still a lot to prove.

Renault isnt on the level of the former two, mainly because of my not so pumped up exceptations of Piquet, and exeptation of some more dissapointment from Alonso.

BMW is a solid team with solid drivers. Could rank 3rd? Toro Rosso is a team with good but inexperienced drivers. Honda has on form Button but Barrichello begins to be a questionmark.

Anyway, car will be most important. A driver can gain only a couple tenths, except when he struggles or makes a mistake.

#78 Zmeej

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 01:40

At #1 line-up, IMO it's a dead heat between McLaren and Ferrari.

Hamilton and Raikonnen are in a similar situation - the Finn getting a huge boost to his confidence by finally winning the Big Enchilada, while Hamilton will be trying to do a Jacques. However, given a choice between the two, I'd go with Kimi.

Agree with Ross about Heikki, that he's faster than Massa, and he has reason to be energized by a jump up to superior machinery.

That evens it out.

At #2, I put BMW in a tie with Renault, largely on the strength of Alonso's brilliance. Heidfeld further solidified his reputation as a top-tier driver, and Kubica grew further into it. Piquetinho looks very promising, but in comparison with the two others, he's more of an unknown quantity.

At #3, three teams tied in a position that depends on how things pan out.
If Brawn can light a fire under Honda and inspire a pair that has gone stale, they belong here.
If Coulthard continues to enjoy himself and Webber settles down, they do.
If Nakajima justifies Sir Frank's confidence in him, then Nico's excellence certainly puts them here.

At #4:
Dunno, but I'm not sure if Bourdais will make the jump to F1 the way JV and JPM did, and dunno if Vettel will justify the hype. Greater uncertainty puts them here, instead of amidst the #3 logjam.

At #5 (potentially tied with #4) :
Super Aguri. Sato helped embarrass the parent company, but Davidson was suprisingly inconsistent. He's the difference in the rankings.

At #6:
Toyota. Well, at least Ralfie's finally gone... Although Trulli isn't bad, don't see him getting any better, and Glock is competent, but hardly a house on fire.

At #7:
Force India. Don't mind Sutil, but even if they do land Fisichella as expected, somehow I don't see him enjoying himself further down the grid as much as Coulthard has, and he made a coupla real bonehead moves towards the end of the season.

#79 pingu666

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 02:35

http://youtube.com/w...feature=related i rate glock highly soley because of that race

. battling stubburnly the entire race

#80 PiquetPete

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Posted 22 December 2007 - 22:41

Strongest line up in 2008 - it's a no brainer - Renault have. They have a driver that's a bit slower than Hamilton (Alonso in equal equipment) and one that is quicker than Hamilton (Piquet in slower GP2 equipment). Alonso/Piquet are explosive in 2008 if Renault deliver the car - Piquet is a natural - I know these things peeps so just watch - Piquet has touch and feel for a cars limits - seen it all in Brit F3 and he will deliver.

All depends on Renault not delivering a sack of **** tho - if the car is decent Alonso will be blown away - if it's **** Alonso might blow Piquet away - my money is on Piquet to make Alonso look even sillier in 2008 than he did in 2007 tho! Let's find out! Can't wait! Merry Christmas peeps! :clap:

#81 kekekeke

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Posted 23 December 2007 - 11:47

Originally posted by PiquetPete
They have a driver that's a bit slower than Hamilton (Alonso in equal equipment) and one that is quicker than Hamilton (Piquet in slower GP2 equipment).

that doesn't make sense at all. aren't gp2 cars identical?

#82 EVO2

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Posted 23 December 2007 - 18:28

All depends on Renault not delivering a sack of **** tho - if the car is decent Alonso will be blown away -

Piquet is unlikely to blow away Alonso as before agreeing to return to the team, Alonso must have insisted his teammate be required to sign a contract as a clear number 2 driver. That's why HK was dropping heavy hints that he required equal status and went off to McLaren.

Renault made a big mistake bowing to Alonso's demands and losing HK.

If Piquet outshines Alonso at any race in 2008 the infantile behaviour we have seen from Alonso at both Renault and McLaren will reach new levels of stupidity and lower his reputation even further.

#83 FreeRider

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Posted 23 December 2007 - 20:54

1. Renault - 2 WDC-s speaks for itself, a rookie with attitude beside him makes the pairing even better.
2. BMW - To my mind Heidfeld was the best driver in 2007 and Kubica has a tremendous potential which we didn't see in this season's results due to huge amount of problems.
3. McLaren - Both drivers with only 1 year of experience can't be in any sense better than the forementioned lineups, especially considering testing knowledge.
4. Ferrari - Kimi made this year some utterly stupid mistakes and was also preferred within the team in the end of the season, which makes him no better than a bit above average. Massa probably is going to have problems with the lack of TC.
5. Red Bull - Experience!! Webber is another underestimated talent who could make miracles in a better car in my point of view.
6. Toro Rosso - 4 times Champcar champion should actually be one of the best but he needs to get used to F1 environment. Vettel needs to mature - after few years he can be a material of the WDC.
7. Williams - Rosberg is a good driver but that other guy is under question mark.
8. Force India - Sutil is a great talent but Fisi is one of the worst in the grid I suppose.
9. Toyota - Trulli is a below average driver and Glock isn't going to be very remarkable either I guess.
10. Honda - Lack of motivation which is going to increase if the car is not going to be any better.
11. Super Aguri - Although Sato is a decent driver, I can't put them any higher. That shows the lineups are remarkable.

#84 sopa

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 16:37

Three races into the season:

Seeing this thread my humble opinion says that Renault line-up (Piquet is the weak link) has proved to be overrated.

1. BMW - this is why they are leading the WCC in an inferior car ;)
2. McLaren
3. Ferrari - too many mistakes
4. Toyota - atm maybe lower, but I have great faith in Glock - he'll become better than the other No.2-s of midfielders (Nakajima, Piquet, Coulthard, Barrichello).

5. Red Bull
= Honda - two very similar lineups. A younger, but experienced driver is doing miracles in a midfield car. The more experienced team-mate gets beaten
7. Renault
8. Williams - similar as Renault - second driver is a rookie, who gets clearly beaten. Plus I am not convinced in Rosberg yet - got trashed by Webber and hasn't had a good team-mate since then
9. Toro Rosso - I'm afraid they are overrated despite the hype
10. Force India - before the season I would have rated them higher, but Sutil proves to be nothing special
11. Super Aguri - it doesn't mean the drivers are bad. The quality of the field is simply good.

#85 HoldenRT

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 16:58

Renault yeah right.. Piquet has been as bad if not worse then Heiki last season.

BMW (easy choice)
McLaren/Ferrari (hard to split them apart)
Toyota - (the car is better but Glock has been better then Piquet, Trulli flawless)
RB/Renault/Williams
Honda
STR have disappointed, mainly the car though which hasn't given it's drivers any chance at all to show anything
rest don't care

Maybe we can all agree on one thing, after three races (current form) it's definately not McLaren or Ferrari.

Over the course of the whole season maybe it'd be Ferrari or McLaren.

#86 Beyond

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 19:26

Can't see why kubica-heidi is better than kimi-massa :confused:

let's not put massa away we know he can do great races, just like kubica or heidi who often is unseen in races.
bmw is leading because of ferraris disaster in australia, that's all.

#87 Josta

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 19:29

Originally posted by Beyond
Can't see why kubica-heidi is better than kimi-massa let's not put massa away we know he can do great races, just like kubica or heidi who often is unseen in races.
bmw is leading because of ferraris disaster in australia, that's all.

Well, Heidfeld beat both Ferrari drivers in equal machinery. Therefore, at least one of the BMW lineup is better than both Ferrari drivers. :wave:

#88 wingwalker

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 20:48

Funny how Ferrari are winning this by a landslide when nothing justifies it so far.

#89 pasadena

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 21:14

1. BMW
2. McLaren = Renault = Ferrari (none is particularly strong)

I would say that the combination FA-RK or FA-NH would be stronger than any other.

#90 HoldenRT

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 21:46

Originally posted by Beyond
Can't see why kubica-heidi is better than kimi-massa let's not put massa away we know he can do great races, just like kubica or heidi who often is unseen in races.
bmw is leading because of ferraris disaster in australia, that's all.

Easy. First 3 races, Massa first corner of the season, mistake, later on incident with DC and Kimi during the same race mistakes when trying to overtake. Sepang.. Massa threw away 8 points. So mistakes from both drivers. BMW - both drivers no mistakes, Kubica hit from behind by Nakajima who was penalised for it (taking any blame away from Kub', it's not like it was a racing incident). Those judgements are on 08 form so far, obviously things will change after we have had more races.

BTW we should keep in mind that this topic was done at the end of last year in the winter.. I didn't realise this when I first read the posts so apologies for coming across a bit harsh. :blush:

Only the last 4 or 5 posts have been made since the season started.

#91 pippin

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 22:38

I think this is such a difficult question because the performance of the car skews ones opinion too much.

Having said that I'd say BMW has definitely had the strongest pairing in the early races so far. Both drivers very consistent.