In today's Guardian: link here.
Is this the kind of support that Alonso felt was so sorely lacking from McLaren?
Interview with Flavio
Started by
Gareth
, Mar 11 2008 08:54
130 replies to this topic
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#2
LostProphet
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 11:01
Most of the charges levelled at Hamilton about 'ego' are just as applicable to Alonso, but that doesn't surprise me, 'cause he's not going to say it about Alonso is he?;)
#3
Hacklerf
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 11:21
I wholly agree with Flav, i feel he makes some very valid remarks
#4
archstanton
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 11:34
guess what 2007 mclaren driver flavio is criticising here:
"you should work for the team. Your team consists of 1,000 people working together to put two cars on the grid. You need to respect these people behind you - and not only your ego.
"This is something the driver needs to learn. It's not just about him. You hear drivers saying "my car". But it is not their car - it is the team car. A lot of people are watching you fight while they're working until five in the morning to deliver this car. I feel sorry for the employees of McLaren"
wrong, the other one ... apparently.
c'mon, i don't mind flav being a bit of a paddock joke, but if he expects us to sit and swallow this kind of painfully transparent bs, and with a straight face ... then all that viagra must have finally backed-up and cut off the circulation to his brain.
"you should work for the team. Your team consists of 1,000 people working together to put two cars on the grid. You need to respect these people behind you - and not only your ego.
"This is something the driver needs to learn. It's not just about him. You hear drivers saying "my car". But it is not their car - it is the team car. A lot of people are watching you fight while they're working until five in the morning to deliver this car. I feel sorry for the employees of McLaren"
wrong, the other one ... apparently.
c'mon, i don't mind flav being a bit of a paddock joke, but if he expects us to sit and swallow this kind of painfully transparent bs, and with a straight face ... then all that viagra must have finally backed-up and cut off the circulation to his brain.
#5
Gareth
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 11:52
Ah but you have to remeber, as Flav says, the other one is "only 26".Originally posted by archstanton
guess what 2007 mclaren driver flavio is criticising here:
"you should work for the team. Your team consists of 1,000 people working together to put two cars on the grid. You need to respect these people behind you - and not only your ego.
"This is something the driver needs to learn. It's not just about him. You hear drivers saying "my car". But it is not their car - it is the team car. A lot of people are watching you fight while they're working until five in the morning to deliver this car. I feel sorry for the employees of McLaren"
wrong, the other one ... apparently.
#6
Orin
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 15:07
This has got to be a bit embarrassing for those Alonso fans (just about all of them!) who refused to accept he was demanding #1 status last year. Lovely to see Briatore moving from guy A will be undisputed number one to guy B needing to be a team player, cushioning those egos, eh Flav? 
#7
pRy
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 15:11
I think he has some good points.
#8
BMW_F1
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 15:14
Originally posted by Orin
This has got to be a bit embarrassing for those Alonso fans (just about all of them!) who refused to accept he was demanding #1 status last year. Lovely to see Briatore moving from guy A will be undisputed number one to guy B needing to be a team player, cushioning those egos, eh Flav?
I don't think he is saying he demanded #1 status, Just equal support which evidently he didn't have as Flavio demonstrated by the reaction of the team when Lewis got a pole compared to Alonso. This kind of behavior demoralizes a driver and more so Alonso who was a 2xWDC. If a driver feels some way or another that his team is not 100% behind him, his performance will suffer.
#9
parkiw
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 15:21
As a rookie, in the first year, you should work for the team. Your team consists of 1,000 people working together to put two cars on the grid. You need to respect these people behind you - and not only your ego.
Love the joined-up thinking, Flav.But what is less normal is when you see Hamilton in pole position and everyone at McLaren is jumping like crazy. If pole was for Fernando then everyone was like this [Briatore feigns polite applause].
#10
Mika Mika
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 15:22
Originally posted by BMW_F1
I don't think he is saying he demanded #1 status, Just equal support which evidently he didn't have as Flavio demonstrated by the reaction of the team when Lewis got a pole compared to Alonso. This kind of behavior demoralizes a driver and more so Alonso who was a 2xWDC. If a driver feels some way or another that his team is not 100% behind him, his performance will suffer.
I watched the 2007 Season review the othwer day, there was a telling bit after Lewis Hamiton Just won the US GP where a McMerc engineer on the radio tells Hemiltons that Alonso was demanding to the team that they tell Hamilton to let him by.
By the same reference Hamilton was not alowed to take advantage in Monte Carlo, I think the team came across as pretty fair. I can understand Alonso wanting No.1 Status, but you can't always get what you want ;-)
We Know Fernando demanded No.1 status, I think Flavio is obviusly willing to give that to him, where McMerc were not.
#11
Bart
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 15:25
One could suggest that the team were not big fans of Fred because of his claims that he single-handedly made the car six-tenths of a second per lap faster, or because of his attitude in demanding #1 status, which McLaren have never given to anyone. That's a lesson in how to piss off your team before the first race of the season even starts.Originally posted by BMW_F1
I don't think he is saying he demanded #1 status, Just equal support which evidently he didn't have as Flavio demonstrated by the reaction of the team when Lewis got a pole compared to Alonso. This kind of behavior demoralizes a driver and more so Alonso who was a 2xWDC. If a driver feels some way or another that his team is not 100% behind him, his performance will suffer.
As for claims that Lewis was driven too much by his ego, this is hilarious when coming from Flavio and comparing someone to Alonso.
#12
BMW_F1
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 15:26
Originally posted by Mika Mika
I watched the 2007 Season review the othwer day, there was a telling bit after Lewis Hamiton Just won the US GP where a McMerc engineer on the radio tells Hemiltons that Alonso was demanding to the team that they tell Hamilton to let him by.
By the same reference Hamilton was not alowed to take advantage in Monte Carlo, I think the team came across as pretty fair. I can understand Alonso wanting No.1 Status, but you can't always get what you want ;-)
We Know Fernando demanded No.1 status, I think Flavio is obviusly willing to give that to him, where McMerc were not.
I think I was talking about equal support emotionally. With Ron there any driver going to Mclaren would not be on equal footing with Lewis.
#13
angst
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 15:27
Originally posted by BMW_F1
I don't think he is saying he demanded #1 status, Just equal support which evidently he didn't have as Flavio demonstrated by the reaction of the team when Lewis got a pole compared to Alonso. This kind of behavior demoralizes a driver and more so Alonso who was a 2xWDC. If a driver feels some way or another that his team is not 100% behind him, his performance will suffer.
And Flav, being the impartial observer that he is, and so intimately involved in the inner workings of the McLaren team, is the man to tell us all about this.....
#14
angst
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 15:29
Originally posted by BMW_F1
I think I was talking about equal support emotionally. With Ron there any driver going to Mclaren would not be on equal footing with Lewis.
It'll be interesting, then, to see what heikki makes of it all by season's end, won't it?
#15
BMW_F1
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 15:29
Originally posted by Bart
One could suggest that the team were not big fans of Fred because of his claims that he single-handedly made the car six-tenths of a second per lap faster,
Were this his claims? What I recall is Ron telling everyone that Alonso took him to the Senna days on how technical he was.
Originally posted by Bart
or because of his attitude in demanding #1 status, which McLaren have never given to anyone.
Are you sure..? I wouldn't be.
#16
BMW_F1
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 15:30
Originally posted by angst
It'll be interesting, then, to see what heikki makes of it all by season's end, won't it?
yes.
#17
BMW_F1
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 15:33
Originally posted by angst
And Flav, being the impartial observer that he is, and so intimately involved in the inner workings of the McLaren team, is the man to tell us all about this.....
you don't need to be Flavio to say these things. Any impartial observer would be able to deduce this.
#18
Orin
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 15:34
Originally posted by BMW_F1
I don't think he is saying he demanded #1 status, Just equal support which evidently he didn't have as Flavio demonstrated by the reaction of the team when Lewis got a pole compared to Alonso.
No he's not saying Alonso demanded #1 status, he's saying McLaren should have given it to him without him needing to ask and Hamilton should have been grateful just to follow in his footsteps - something patently at odds with McLaren's perennial driver policy.
However, something which should be beyond question is that Alonso went to McLaren and, in spite of their famous equality policy, demanded number one status as his right. This was long screamed down as heresy on this BB, despite very credible reports in the Guardian and elsewhere, somewhere along the line it has become established as fact... I do wonder whether those insisting that Alonso only wanted equal treatment are at last willing to accept the truth?
#19
Orin
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 15:35
Originally posted by BMW_F1
yes.
And what will you say if Kovalainen ends the season happy with McLaren?
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#20
BMW_F1
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 15:45
Originally posted by Orin
No he's not saying Alonso demanded #1 status, he's saying McLaren should have given it to him without him needing to ask and Hamilton should have been grateful just to follow in his footsteps -
Nothing wrong with that. A lot of teams operate this way, even Mclaren, had it been another driver bar Lewis or Kimi sitting on the second car, I can assure you that Alonso would have received that extra support to challenge for the WDC.
Originally posted by Orin
However, something which should be beyond question is that Alonso went to McLaren and, in spite of their famous equality policy,
this is a myth.
Originally posted by Orin
This was long screamed down as heresy on this BB, despite very credible reports in the Guardian and elsewhere, somewhere along the line it has become established as fact... I do wonder whether those insisting that Alonso only wanted equal treatment are at last willing to accept the truth?
I do accept that Mclaren may have more resources to accommodate giving both of its drivers the same equipment but that is not what I am talking about here. Moral support and equal equipment are two different things.
#21
Orin
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 16:13
Originally posted by BMW_F1
this is a myth.
...
I do accept that Mclaren may have more resources to accommodate giving both of its drivers the same equipment but that is not what I am talking about here. Moral support and equal equipment are two different things.
It is debatable whether Alonso received enough emotional support at McLaren, it is surely no longer debatable that he was demanding outright (in terms of a technical and/or strategic advantage) number one status?
#22
lukywill
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 16:28
this was already fully discussed. it doesn´t matter how many times you can wrote the same thinking.
anyway briatore is right when says:
"I feel sorry for the employees of McLaren - it was terrible. It was important for McLaren to win the drivers' championship but they missed the opportunity. Because of this fight they finished with nothing."
anyway briatore is right when says:
"I feel sorry for the employees of McLaren - it was terrible. It was important for McLaren to win the drivers' championship but they missed the opportunity. Because of this fight they finished with nothing."
#23
hobbes
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 16:36
Originally posted by angst
It'll be interesting, then, to see what heikki makes of it all by season's end, won't it?
I expect Heikki to be more quiet than Alonso. Even if he doesn't like it there, he wouldn't say much. But since he is perhaps less of a threat, or appears to be less of a threat to Hamilton, im expecting him to get good treatment
#24
Arion
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 17:07
Originally posted by BMW_F1
I don't think he is saying he demanded #1 status, Just equal support which evidently he didn't have as Flavio demonstrated by the reaction of the team when Lewis got a pole compared to Alonso.
I expect to see a cheerleading squad for Alonso at Renualt. But not sure if they will have something to cheer for, the Renualt doesn't seem fast enough for pole.
Flavio is making Alonso sound like a wimp these days, "they're jumping up and down for Lewis, and I only got applause, it's not fair, I'm only 26."
Can't Flav just shut up, and stop giving implicit and explicit warnings to Piquet on any "do a Hamilton" ambition. Alonso should be able to handle Piquet on his own. And if they're not fighting for championship this year, there's no justification for holding Piquet back.
#25
SlateGray
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 17:21
Well FB really nailed it when he mentions Hamilton’s rather obvious ego problem.
In his own mind the kid thinks he is on par with Schumacher, Senna, Alonso or any number of world driving champions.
On the up side Hamilton did win four races from pole with the best car in the field, as any competent F1 driver should
On the down side the kid let his over inflated ego get the better of him, instead of keeping his eyes on the prize he was consumed with his need to “win the championship in style” and as a result we where treated to the biggest collapse in F1 history. If Hamilton can maintain his current denial about his huge failures of 07 he may do ok this season but if he is suddenly overcome with the realization of how badly he screwed up last year he may be demoralized to the point where it effects his driving. From the interviews I have seen and read Hamilton should have no problem maintaining his denial until seasons end. Best advice Hamilton could follow would be “shut up and drive” and “learn from your mistakes”
In his own mind the kid thinks he is on par with Schumacher, Senna, Alonso or any number of world driving champions.
On the up side Hamilton did win four races from pole with the best car in the field, as any competent F1 driver should
On the down side the kid let his over inflated ego get the better of him, instead of keeping his eyes on the prize he was consumed with his need to “win the championship in style” and as a result we where treated to the biggest collapse in F1 history. If Hamilton can maintain his current denial about his huge failures of 07 he may do ok this season but if he is suddenly overcome with the realization of how badly he screwed up last year he may be demoralized to the point where it effects his driving. From the interviews I have seen and read Hamilton should have no problem maintaining his denial until seasons end. Best advice Hamilton could follow would be “shut up and drive” and “learn from your mistakes”
#26
president evil
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 17:26
Imagine its March 1996 and its Michael Schumacher's first year at Ferrari after winning the two world titles at Benneton. Then imagine that Ferrari blatantly favoured Eddie Irvine in his first year at Ferrari despite his team mate being a two time world, and current, champion. Imagine how Michael would have felt if Irvine received all the preferrential treatment that was actually bestowed upon Hamilton. Now imagine it wasn't Michael but Alonso. Now do you see how Alonso felt because I do.
#27
Orin
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 17:27
SlateGray, I bet you're another one, like BMW_F1 and the rest of the Alonso apologists, still refusing to admit that Alonso joined McLaren only to demand #1 status be handed to him.
EDIT: President Evil, Ferrari enticed Schumacher with promises of number one status, McLaren did not. And what's your idea of 'blatantly favoured', because Hamilton sure as hell didn't get better equipment or strategies?
EDIT: President Evil, Ferrari enticed Schumacher with promises of number one status, McLaren did not. And what's your idea of 'blatantly favoured', because Hamilton sure as hell didn't get better equipment or strategies?
#28
Rubens Hakkamacher
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 17:32
This is ridiculous: "Hamilton should have been a better team player", although Alonso *wasn't* when Hamilton became dominant?
For the rest of the criticism of McLaren - what of the "Alonso's ma' boy" Briatore attitude back when Fisichella was his team mate?
For the rest of the criticism of McLaren - what of the "Alonso's ma' boy" Briatore attitude back when Fisichella was his team mate?
#29
MarkWRX
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 17:35
Flavio is saying, only a little between the lines, that:
1. Hamilton is young and has many years ahead of him, including several more championship opprotunities.
2. Alonso is a World Champion x 2
3. So if Hamilton is really a team player, he would have put his full support to the McLaren team by letting Alonso lead the team to a World Championship.
By so doing, us, the people who watch F1 (and obsess about it apparently), would have been deprived of a great deal of the excitment that the 2007 season provided. Should Hamilton have slowed down in qualifying so as not to lead Alonso 6-2 on poles? Should he have let Alonso pass him at the US GP? Perhaps slowed to an almost stop at the last lap of the last corner of the Austrian GP...oh wait...there was no Austrian GP, but you get the point.
I am a McLaren supporter and I wish that a McLaren driver had won, but it didn't happen that way.
God help Renault if Piquet Jr. is as fast as he thinks he is.
1. Hamilton is young and has many years ahead of him, including several more championship opprotunities.
2. Alonso is a World Champion x 2
3. So if Hamilton is really a team player, he would have put his full support to the McLaren team by letting Alonso lead the team to a World Championship.
By so doing, us, the people who watch F1 (and obsess about it apparently), would have been deprived of a great deal of the excitment that the 2007 season provided. Should Hamilton have slowed down in qualifying so as not to lead Alonso 6-2 on poles? Should he have let Alonso pass him at the US GP? Perhaps slowed to an almost stop at the last lap of the last corner of the Austrian GP...oh wait...there was no Austrian GP, but you get the point.
I am a McLaren supporter and I wish that a McLaren driver had won, but it didn't happen that way.
God help Renault if Piquet Jr. is as fast as he thinks he is.
#30
MONTOYASPEED
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 17:44
Originally posted by MarkWRX
God help Renault if Piquet Jr. is as fast as he thinks he is.
And God help us if Hamilton was as fast as he thinks he is. We would have a really boring season.
#31
angst
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 18:39
Originally posted by MONTOYASPEED
And God help us if Hamilton was as fast as he thinks he is. We would have a really boring season.
I think the problems that arose were precisley because he is as quick as he thinks he is, hence the point about Piquet...;)
#32
MONTOYASPEED
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 19:12
Originally posted by angst
I think the problems that arose were precisley because he is as quick as he thinks he is, hence the point about Piquet...;)
So quick that he took the corner quicker than he should have and ended up beaching the car or so quick that he ended going off while trying to pass Alonso.
#33
StefanV
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 19:17
Originally posted by parkiw
Love the joined-up thinking, Flav.
Was thinking the same thing when I read it.
#34
angst
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 19:22
Originally posted by MONTOYASPEED
So quick that he took the corner quicker than he should have and ended up beaching the car or so quick that he ended going off while trying to pass Alonso.
Whereas the more experienced Alonso had a faultless season.....ermm...hang on...;)
#35
StefanV
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 19:29
It seems clear that Flavio is doing what is necessary to make Alonso become an harmonic and agile racing driver again. Renault needs that. Briatore is giving Alonso 100% support and at the same time he is working on changing, or repairing, Fernandos public image. He is doing exactly what a good team boss should do.
#36
glorius&victorius
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 19:35
The things that Flavio says and especially the timing of it, shows that he's a tasteless guy. We had weeks of pre-season, enough time to fill the newspapers. And now 4 days before the 2008 season starts, he digs up stinking dirt from 2007 and dumps it freshly in front of Mclaren's garage.
Offcourse he is entitled to his opinion, but this mudslinging right before the start of the season seems a bit cheap and looks like a desperate attempt to "destabilize" McLaren.
Offcourse he is entitled to his opinion, but this mudslinging right before the start of the season seems a bit cheap and looks like a desperate attempt to "destabilize" McLaren.
#37
Frank Booth
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 19:37
Flavio rocks - The guy is obviously an expert on dealing with prima donnas.
The timing is perfect what are you talking about. He wants to rattle LH cage, from his performance in the last 2 2007 races he has shown that he cracks under pressure. Bravo Flavio turn the screws as tight as you can.
The things that Flavio says and especially the timing of it, shows that he's a tasteless guy.
The timing is perfect what are you talking about. He wants to rattle LH cage, from his performance in the last 2 2007 races he has shown that he cracks under pressure. Bravo Flavio turn the screws as tight as you can.
#38
glorius&victorius
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 19:38
Originally posted by StefanV
It seems clear that Flavio is doing what is necessary to make Alonso become an harmonic and agile racing driver again. Renault needs that. Briatore is giving Alonso 100% support and at the same time he is working on changing, or repairing, Fernandos public image. He is doing exactly what a good team boss should do.
To me it seems he's Alonso's voice... as he (Alonso) probably isn't allowed to mention the words "mclaren" and "2007" in the same sentence.
#39
StefanV
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 19:42
Maybe. But first and foremost he is Renaults voice. And saying things to irritate other teams is hardly new in F1. Or in any other sport.Originally posted by glorius&victorius
To me it seems he's Alonso's voice... as he (Alonso) probably isn't allowed to mention the words "mclaren" and "2007" in the same sentence.
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#40
MONTOYASPEED
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 19:56
Originally posted by angst
Whereas the more experienced Alonso had a faultless season.....ermm...hang on...;)
No, he had a really bad race in Canada and crashed in Japan.
Alonso would have never lost the World Championship with a 17 point lead and 2 races to go.
#41
StefanV
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 19:57
Interestingly, he was not able to grab a 17 points lead with 2 races to go either.Originally posted by MONTOYASPEED
No, he had a really bad race in Canada and crashed in Japan.
Alonso would have never lost the World Championship with a 17 point lead and 2 races to go.
#42
MONTOYASPEED
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 20:05
Originally posted by StefanV
Interestingly, he was not able to grab a 17 points lead with 2 races to go either.
Indeed, and ended up with the same points as Hamilton.;)
#43
lythe
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 20:24
With Briatore and Alonso, all that team needs is Webber to be perfected.
#44
le chat noir
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 20:48
Originally posted by MONTOYASPEED
Indeed, and ended up with the same points as Hamilton.;)
having lost several points by himself for cheating. without that he would have won. and then he would have had a crack at a 2008 wdc 4 on the trot. if only he'd chosen to drive the car, than sit and mope...
#45
selespeed
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 21:03
having lost several points beeing cheated by the FIA...
#46
Domination
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 21:06
If only he didn't crash out in Fuji and wasn't all over the place in Canada. Perhaps if he defended that place against Sato more vigorously the end result would have been different. Or maybe if he was more mature than Hamilton in Hungary. A 2xWDC doesn't behave like that. Not a god role model.Originally posted by selespeed
having lost several points beeing cheated by the FIA...
#47
le chat noir
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 21:08
Originally posted by selespeed
having lost several points beeing cheated by the FIA...
having lost several points not knowing how to play the game...
#48
SlateGray
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 21:22
Originally posted by le chat noir
having lost several points not knowing how to play the game...
Because Hamilton lacks personal integrity and cannot keep his word, Hamilton betrayed team and teammate in Hungary. Hamilton cost Mac the WDC and Alonso the WDC
If only the Hamilton had the personal integrity to live up to his word everything would have been very different. Hamilton proved not only that he cannot handle the pressure as he so clearly demonstrated by his massive choke, but he also clearly demonstrated that his word, when given, cannot be trusted.
Personally I hold that particular type of dishonesty in very low regard.
#49
le chat noir
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 21:30
Originally posted by SlateGray
Personally I hold that particular type of dishonesty in very low regard.
You can take that view, many do, but do you then choose to sit still and throw it away?
Or do you knuckle down, show him what for and come out clearly the better man?
#50
MarkWRX
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Posted 11 March 2008 - 21:57
Originally posted by Domination
Not a god role model.
I am guessing that wasn't a Freudian slip.
