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Aus GP : Friday Free Practice discussion thread

Started by Julli , Mar 14 2008 06:53

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#151 as65p

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 15:26

Originally posted by Orin

I'd prefer it if you didn't feel the need to drag this into another Alonso thread, sadly you misconstrued angst's post on Fisi as an attack on your favourite, thus starting this whole OT strand. BTW, use your ignore list, but don't expect me to stop commenting on your more wayward posts... and "stalking"? please grow up.

So again you can come up with exactly nothing. What a surprise.

Oh, and I don't use ignore list, not even for you. They are for whimps.

#152 metz

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 15:27

Originally posted by Fatgadget

Presicely.How can you collate meaningfull data when you are not going balls to the wall?

Speculation is that they were going all out, but always with an extra 10 laps of fuel to reflect race conditions.
And when they were doing the Q laps, they reported wrong numbers.
The team did more testing laps than anyone else. They should have completed some with max conditions just to get a comparison.
I have no idea why Dr.T is playing these games.

With the heavy winds on Friday, I suspect the multi-wing machine might have had a disadvantage.

#153 Orin

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 15:29

Originally posted by as65p

So again you can come up with exactly nothing. What a surprise.

Oh, and I don't use ignore list, not even for you. They are for whimps.

Well if you refuse to use it don't moan about people replying to your posts - logically inconsistent, neh? Perhaps now we can get back to the practice sessions...

#154 as65p

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 15:36

Originally posted by Orin

Well if you refuse to use it don't moan about people replying to your posts - logically inconsistent, neh? Perhaps now we can get back to the practice sessions...

Sure. I hope you followed the advice in your avatar pic and prepared yourself...;)

#155 Orin

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 15:38

Originally posted by as65p

Sure. I hope you followed the advice in your avatar pic and prepared yourself...;)

A large slice of pre-prepared pessimism will soften the blow.

#156 Owen

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 15:41

Just read James Allen's impressions on qualifying. He seems surprised at the gap between Sutil and Fisi. Question: Could it be because Fisi has the new car and Sutil is running with the old? Sheesh. I thought he would know that. :

#157 rad787

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 15:45

Can we keep the fanboyism out and just discuss practice? Am sick reading about people attacking and defending their drivers at the slightest and probably unintended statement.

#158 shonguiz

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 15:51

Originally posted by jokuvaan

We dont know fuel levels in final quali session.

Even in Q2 ?

#159 MortenF1

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 15:57

Originally posted by Owen
He seems surprised at the gap between Sutil and Fisi. Question: Could it be because Fisi has the new car and Sutil is running with the old? Sheesh. I thought he would know that. :

First of all, we've only done away with two practice sessions, not qualifying.

This is the first I hear about Sutil running the old car! I don't believe you're right. Could you provide a link to where you've picked up on this?

#160 Atreiu

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 15:58

Originally posted by karlth

I wouldn't define it as a myth. Additionally to his performances in slippery conditions Massa dropped it quite a few times testing and of course yesterday.

Just that I would trust the other 3 top line drivers more to keep it on the road in the difficult conditions we have seen so far.

Everyone went off the road today. Kimi was not lucky to sit in the gravel like Trulli when he put his left front on the grass exactly like Trulli did. And when was the last time Massa crashed out?

#161 angst

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 16:01

Originally posted by Melbourne Park
Ah - I am wrong. It must be Renault that doesn't have one.

Oh well then - Naka takes a step further down ... but I'll still give him time. And Williams fans, the team needs to have a Japanese driver, they are paying some of Williams bills! At least having him allowed Rosberg to stay. And should Naka get fast, I'd love to see a fast F1 driver from Japan.

I don't blame Williams, and I don't blame Nakajima. It is, imo, very short-sighted of Toyota (who show a remarkable skill for making crapdecisions in F1...) to force Naka in now. Hamilton was GP2 champion, and showed maturity within the context of GP2. Nakajima had a promising, but erratic, year in GP2. Even by GP2 stanards he showed a need for more experience. 2008 is, imo, too early for F1 for him.

That's all I'm saying.

#162 angst

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 16:03

Originally posted by Owen
Just read James Allen's impressions on qualifying. He seems surprised at the gap between Sutil and Fisi. Question: Could it be because Fisi has the new car and Sutil is running with the old? Sheesh. I thought he would know that. :

Maybe he's taking that into account... The same pattern became apparent in winter testing. I think this will do some good for Sutil - he didn't have the stiffest of opposition last year.

#163 rodlamas

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 16:10

Originally posted by race addicted

Why do you say "why on earth"? It's not like it would be something unheard of, totally out of this world, if the two Ferrari's ran slightly different race fuel loads. I strongly doubt a two stopper will be split into three 33% stints, so it could indeed be that Massa ran a load that was lighter.
I have my opinion on Massa; I rate him highly especially in the "pace-ranking", lower on the list of "complete drivers", but I think Räikkönen is quicker from what we saw in FP1. Then again he wasn't happy after second free, so we'll have to wait and see.

Raikkonen was faster in the morning, when all times were faster than in the afternoon.

The only one who went quicker was Hamilton who's been in a qualifying simulation (we can speculate whether this was Q2 or Q3, but as I've been saying for months, Q2 simulation is totally useless for Mcalren or Ferrari).

And during the long stints Massa and Hamilton were faster than Raikkonen. Even Kovalainen was able to lap a tad faster than Kimi. Ok, we can argument here that the fuel levels might have been into the cards, which I doubt.

And then Balsissieri and Kimi himself say the set-up was shity this afternoon.

Only facts have been mentioned here.

And therefore I still believe all top 4 guys had +- the same fuel load onboard on FP2 for the long stints and that Kimi ahs gone wrongly with his set-up.

By the way, AMuS reports Baldisieri is a bit to blame for the wrong set-up direction.

#164 hello86

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 16:10

Are there some interesing news from TS?

#165 inca_roads

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 16:10

Originally posted by paranoik0

Toro Rosso - lots of laps but the times aren't great. They might be beaten by Honda and/or Force India. Vettel seems quicker than Bourdais.

Bourdais hardly ran any laps in FP2 due to car problems so it's a bit early to tell.

#166 rodlamas

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 16:13

Originally posted by shonguiz

Even in Q2 ?

Probably Mclaren and Ferrari won't run on fumes even on Q2. There's just no need for that.

#167 denthierry

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 16:21

Originally posted by rodlamas
The only one who went quicker was Hamilton who's been in a qualifying simulation (we can speculate whether this was Q2 or Q3, but as I've been saying for months, Q2 simulation is totally useless for Mcalren or Ferrari).

Sorry but am not sure i follow you here :
if you been saying for months Q2 simulations are totally useless, then how come Lewis did one today, as that is what you are implying in the first part of that sentence, right?
Do you mean by that, that it must have been a Q3 simulation then, and not a Q2 simulation?
Or does Lewis's Q simulations simply shows you must have been wrong for months then?
Pls clarify... Thanks.

#168 rodlamas

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 16:27

Originally posted by denthierry

Sorry but am not sure i follow you here :
if you been saying for months Q2 simulations are totally useless, then how come Lewis did one today, as that is what you are implying in the first part of that sentence, right?
Do you mean by that, that it must have been a Q3 simulation then, and not a Q2 simulation?
Or does Lewis's Q simulations simply shows you must have been wrong for months then?
Pls clarify... Thanks.

I've been saying that using very low fuel on Q2 (as in 2007) is useless... In 2007 you normally would have your last lap in Q3 with 5-6 laps of fuel onboard with softer tyres. So as in Q1 top teams used hards to preserve a new set of softs for the start of the race, in Q2 (to get a notion of what to expect in Q3) teams used fumes of fuel + softer tyres.

Now, Q3 is gonna be done on 10-20 laps of fuel, depending on how you intend to run the race. So going on fumes on Q2 is useless for Mclaren and Ferrari as their car is way ahead of the opposition. It's better to put already some fuel onboard to check how the car's going to behave on softs with that track conditions and a certain amount of fuel onboard.

That's way I think Lewis 1:26.559 lap was a Q3 simulation.

Got it?

#169 color

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 16:27

This is the first I hear about Sutil running the old car! I don't believe you're right. Could you provide a link to where you've picked up on this?

After Force India website:

"Adrian Sutil (car 20, VJM01/03)
FP1: 17th 1:30.155 (13 laps)
FP2: 17th 1:29.161 (32 laps)

Giancarlo Fisichella (car 21, VJM01/05)
FP1: 12th 1:29.230 (24 laps)
FP2: 9th 1:28.469 (32 laps)"

#170 AFCA

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 16:31

Originally posted by rodlamas
By the way, AMuS reports

Where ?

#171 metz

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 16:33

Originally posted by rodlamas

Probably Mclaren and Ferrari won't run on fumes even on Q2. There's just no need for that.

And McLaren will fuel heavier than Ferrari and rely on their better starts.

#172 wrighty

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 16:39

Originally posted by Durant

Yes I saw him doing a number of big power slides, under steering, running wide ect. Out of all of that he finally managed to hook up a good lap right at the end on fumes. Well done.

(from what i saw) what utter tosh, i watched the practice last night and commented in the live thread how smooth and direct his first flying laps looked at the time....I didnt see the later session but there was no sign of the behaviour your post suggests even when the track was at its worst early on

#173 Johny Bravo

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 16:40

Originally posted by metz

And McLaren will fuel heavier than Ferrari and rely on their better starts.

Mclaren are lucky to use their inhouse ECU.

#174 rodlamas

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 16:42

Originally posted by AFCA

Where ?

Now you're asking for sources...

And sorry for my mistake, it was not Baldisieri, but Domenicalli.

#175 shonguiz

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 16:44

A team boss responsible for setup ??

#176 Johny Bravo

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 16:47

Originally posted by shonguiz
A team boss responsible for setup ??

Another sabotage action is in preparation.

After all, Stefano must be a Schumacher-fan.

#177 rodlamas

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 16:50

Originally posted by shonguiz
A team boss responsible for setup ??

The text on AMuS is not evry clear, and we all know a journalist can manipulate some words.

Actually, Domenicalli said they must work on the set-up because it was wrong, but they quote afterwards inducing you to think they he might be responsible for that.

Actually, I should correct it...

AMuS PRETENDS to say Domenicalli was responsible for Kimi's wrong set-up.

#178 AFCA

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 16:51

Originally posted by rodlamas

Now you're asking for sources...

And sorry for my mistake, it was not Baldisieri, but Domenicalli.

Obviously cause I couldn't find it..

They said he completed his first practice sessions as the head-responsable of Ferrari, which I is unrelated to what he said about the set-up. Nevermind anyway.

#179 karlth

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 16:59

Originally posted by rodlamas

The text on AMuS is not evry clear, and we all know a journalist can manipulate some words.

Actually, Domenicalli said they must work on the set-up because it was wrong, but they quote afterwards inducing you to think they he might be responsible for that.

Actually, I should correct it...

AMuS PRETENDS to say Domenicalli was responsible for Kimi's wrong set-up.

Reminds me of my favourite Flavio Briatore anectode. (Conversation from memory so not totally accurate).

Gilette produced a documentary about the Benetton team in 1997. During one of the practice sessions that year - with Benetton struggling yet again - the cameraman focussed on Pat Symmonds and a race engineer discussing a technical issue when Flavio is seen walking towards them:

Flavio: "I was watching the Ferraris. They were very fast."
Pat: "Yes."
Flavio: "It makes sparks on the straights."
Pat: "Yes?"
Flavio: "Make our car produce sparks on the straight, then it will be fast."

Pat: "Our car doesn't produce sparks, it has a different underside."

This is probably why most reporters don't ask Briatore about technical matters.

#180 peroa

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 17:13

Originally posted by rodlamas

The text on AMuS is not evry clear, and we all know a journalist can manipulate some words.

Actually, Domenicalli said they must work on the set-up because it was wrong, but they quote afterwards inducing you to think they he might be responsible for that.

Actually, I should correct it...

AMuS PRETENDS to say Domenicalli was responsible for Kimi's wrong set-up.

Dude, if you "sprechen sie deutsch" than the text is completely clear with only one meaning.

AFCA already translated it correctly.

#181 kismet

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 17:13

Kimi quotes from TS:

- The car simply didn't work [as it should]. We need to go through the data to find out why. It's going to be a long night for the engineers but I believe solutions will be found by tomorrow morning. We know that when the setup's right, this car's fast. There's nothing to worry about. I think we'll be stronger again on Saturday. The car was fine in the morning but not so at all in the afternoon. McLaren are doing about as well as we thought they'd be, but we should be competitive once we get the car working properly.

- It's difficult to say anything about the tyres when you can't get the car working as it should.

- We'll try to win the race. The easiest way would be from pole.

#182 mclarensmps

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 17:14

Anyone who thinks Hamilton will struggle in Qually/Race without TC is in for a huge surprise.

His practice sessions hark back to Schumacher.

Massa, on the other hand...

#183 rodlamas

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 17:16

Originally posted by AFCA

Obviously cause I couldn't find it..

They said he completed his first practice sessions as the head-responsable of the Ferrari, which I is unrelated to what he said about the set-up. Nevermind anyway.

Ok, no problems. :up:

Mein deutsch isn't working too much, I think it needs a better set-up, as Kimi's F2008.

#184 Youichi

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 17:22

Originally posted by color

After Force India website:

"Adrian Sutil (car 20, VJM01/03)
FP1: 17th 1:30.155 (13 laps)
FP2: 17th 1:29.161 (32 laps)

Giancarlo Fisichella (car 21, VJM01/05)
FP1: 12th 1:29.230 (24 laps)
FP2: 9th 1:28.469 (32 laps)"

So they both have the new car, the VJM01, and Sutil has the 3rd chassis made, and Fisi has the 5th one.

#185 color

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 17:26

Originally posted by Youichi

So they both have the new car, the VJM01, and Sutil has the 3rd chassis made, and Fisi has the 5th one.

uhhh, I'm no Force India expert... but I don't think so...

there is a thread somewhere here about Force India... go there, they are saying the same thing - they have ONLY ONE '08 chassis so far.

#186 Arion

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 17:38

Originally posted by color

uhhh, I'm no Force India expert... but I don't think so...

there is a thread somewhere here about Force India... go there, they are saying the same thing - they have ONLY ONE '08 chassis so far.

So Fisi was not bluffing after all, he is indeed the No.1 driver at Force India :confused:

#187 shonguiz

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 17:45

Originally posted by karlth

Reminds me of my favourite Flavio Briatore anectode. (Conversation from memory so not totally accurate).

Gilette produced a documentary about the Benetton team in 1997. During one of the practice sessions that year - with Benetton struggling yet again - the cameraman focussed on Pat Symmonds and a race engineer discussing a technical issue when Flavio is seen walking towards them:

This is probably why most reporters don't ask Briatore about technical matters.

#188 Clatter

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 17:52

Originally posted by Johny Bravo

Mclaren are lucky to use their inhouse ECU.

Ferrari are lucky to be using their made to measure tyres.

#189 AFCA

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 17:53

Originally posted by karlth

Reminds me of my favourite Flavio Briatore anectode. (Conversation from memory so not totally accurate).

Gilette produced a documentary about the Benetton team in 1997. During one of the practice sessions that year - with Benetton struggling yet again - the cameraman focussed on Pat Symmonds and a race engineer discussing a technical issue when Flavio is seen walking towards them:

This is probably why most reporters don't ask Briatore about technical matters.

True though, Briatore knows absolutely bollocks about the technical side, on the other hand he's brilliant at being a boss making a team succesful.

#190 Johny Bravo

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 17:56

Originally posted by Clatter

Ferrari are lucky to be using their made to measure tyres.

Do other teams use different sized wheels?

#191 Mika Mika

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 18:03

Originally posted by Johny Bravo

Do other teams use different sized wheels?

Originally posted by Johny Bravo

Mclaren are lucky to use their inhouse ECU.

Sorry JB you deserved that for your ECU comment... you have to be able to take as much as you give!! :rotfl:

#192 Mika Mika

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 18:04

Originally posted by karlth

Reminds me of my favourite Flavio Briatore anectode. (Conversation from memory so not totally accurate).

Gilette produced a documentary about the Benetton team in 1997. During one of the practice sessions that year - with Benetton struggling yet again - the cameraman focussed on Pat Symmonds and a race engineer discussing a technical issue when Flavio is seen walking towards them:

This is probably why most reporters don't ask Briatore about technical matters.

I'm with Flavio, sparks deffo make the car go faster, and they look cooler!!

#193 mclarensmps

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 18:05

Originally posted by Johny Bravo

Do other teams use different sized wheels?

That has what significant relevance?

#194 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 18:06

Originally posted by karlth

Reminds me of my favourite Flavio Briatore anectode. (Conversation from memory so not totally accurate).

Gilette produced a documentary about the Benetton team in 1997. During one of the practice sessions that year - with Benetton struggling yet again - the cameraman focussed on Pat Symmonds and a race engineer discussing a technical issue when Flavio is seen walking towards them:

This is probably why most reporters don't ask Briatore about technical matters.

That is one of two outstanding moments from that documentary that I remember immediately. Symonds deadpan delivery could not have been funnier if it was written for a film.

The other was at Jerez and David Richards sees Schumacher in the gravel and asks what happened. Symonds says "Villeneuve hit him..."

#195 Mika Mika

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 18:07

Originally posted by The Big Guns

That has what significant relevance?

JB says McMerc have an advantage because of their ECU, Clatter says Fiat have an advantage because of their in depth knowledge of Bridgestone tyres.

I still think Flav is right more sparks!!!!!

#196 Jason

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 18:09

Based on the laptimes from the first two sessions Button looks very smooth. His driving style has always been smooth, so perhaps of all the drivers on the grid he will benefit the most from the ban on TC.

#197 mclarensmps

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 18:11

Originally posted by Mika Mika
...I still think Flav is right more sparks!!!!!

Sounds about right! :up:

#198 Clatter

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 18:13

Originally posted by Jason

How come there's only the laptimes from the first practice session and not the second?

Based on the laptimes from the first session Button looks very smooth. His driving style has always been smooth, so perhaps of all the drivers on the grid he will benefit the most from the ban on TC.

Doesnt matter if he is the smoothest on the grid or not, if the cars not up to the job then any benefit is lost.

#199 Jason

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 18:22

Originally posted by Clatter

Doesnt matter if he is the smoothest on the grid or not, if the cars not up to the job then any benefit is lost.

Being smooth matters, because he can benefit from other drivers' mistakes.

#200 Clatter

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 18:30

Originally posted by Jason

Being smooth matters, because he can benefit from other drivers' mistakes.

Has to be a huge number of mistakes to get him into a position that really matters, and you can't go into a race banking on others to make those mistakes.

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Aus GP : Friday Free Practice discussion thread

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