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BRM P301

Started by Paul Taylor , Nov 16 2006 04:04

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23 replies to this topic

#1 Paul Taylor

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 04:04

The car was run at Le Mans in 1997, but I've so far only seen two mentions of it on this forum. It appears to have a BRM logo in the front of the bonnet:

(Click to enlarge)

...but other than the name and the badge, is it related to this in any way?:

Posted Image

See, I always assumed that once BRM had tried and failed with that P230 in 1979, that was the end of it.

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#2 cosworth bdg

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 04:26

There is an article about the whole project in one of the mid 1990's editions of RACECAR ENGINEERING , The car had the blessing of the OWEN FAMILY and was fitted with a modernised version of the original WESLAKE V12 Engine built by Terry Hoyle Engineering.................. but like a lot of these non-manufacturer projects it suffered from a lack of funds..???? SADLY......

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#3 Alan Cox

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 09:25

I seem to recall it had something to do with Mangoletsi Engineering??

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#4 rdmotorsport

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 09:43

I beleieve Paul Brown was involved on the design side.

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#5 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 09:45

Correct, John Mangoletsi was behind it but like so many projects around this time, failed to succeed during the deep early 90s recession. I took these at the spring VSCC meet at Silverstone in '92 when the car was on show. There was also a model of a proposed road version.

Posted Image

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#6 petefenelon

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 09:57

There was a later version run by Keith Wiggins at Pacific that had lost the roof and acquired a Nissan V6 engine. By this point the BRM connection is getting fairly tenuous, with the exception that it was not a success ;)

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#7 jph

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 10:01

The car first appeared at Le Mans in 1992 with a closed cockpit and the Hoyle/Weslake V12 engine. The project was run by John Mangoletsi and, in true BRM fashion, was far from being race-ready in time for Le Mans. Nominated drivers were Wayne Taylor, Harri Toivonen and Richard Jones. Numerous problems in practice meant that only Taylor qualified for the race but the existence of the rule preventing anyone from driving more than four hours consecutively or fourteen in total was of no concern as the car had a short and troubled run in the race.

In 1997 the car reappeared with the foof chopped off and the V12 engine replaced by a Nissan V6 turbo. The car was run by Keith Wiggins and drivers were Toivonen, Salazar and Pareja. Despite looking the part and having a more 'sensible' engine, the car again disgraced itself, being the first retirement from the race.

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#8 RTH

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 14:15

Great pity this all fell by the wayside. The road car also looked nice did not get beyond the model stage I believe.

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#9 Sharman

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 14:32

John Mangoletsi was debarred from serving as a company director following the failure of the enterprise which may or may not EXPLAIN the failureof the enterprise!

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#10 Hugewally

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 15:46

Just a couple of things I've seen...

Started life as the ’92 P351-001 with the BRM v12

IMSA Round: 8 2 h 45 min Watkins Glen Date: 28.6.1992
Did not finish:
#6 Wayne Taylor (ZA)
British Racing Motors BRM P351 001 5 Electrical
http://forum.rscnet....32&d=1113213272
http://forum.rscnet....19&d=1037885238

1997
24 Hours of Le Mans Pre-Qual/Test
#14 Harri Toivonen (SF), Johnny O'Connell (USA)
Pacific Racing Ltd - BRM P301 Nissan 3.0L V6 Turbo P351-001 .

24 Hours of Le Mans
Did not finish:
#14 Harri Toivonen (SF), Jésus Pareja (E), Eliseo Salazar (RCH)
Pacific Racing - BRM P301 Nissan 3.0L V6 Turbo P351-001 6 Laps Engine
http://www.racingspo...7-06-15-014.jpg
http://www.motorspor...Harri_Toivonen#

FIA SCC Round: 1 2 hr Donington Park Date: 6.7.1997
Did not start:
#14 Franz Konrad (A), Richard Dean (GB), Wido Rössler (D)
Pacific Racing - BRM P301 Nissan 3.0L V6 Turbo P351-001 Electrics
http://www.racingspo...7-07-06-014.jpg

FIA SCC Round: 2 1 h 15 min Zolder Date: 3.8.1997
In entry list only:
#14 Franz Konrad (A), Richard Dean (GB), Wido Rössler (D)
Pacific Racing - BRM P301 Nissan 3.0L V6 Turbo P351-001

1998
ISRS Round: 3 2 h 30 min Misano Adriatico Date: 4.7.1998
Did not finish:
#14 Tim Sugden (GB), Grant Orbell (ZA)
BRM - BRM P301 Nissan 3.0L V6 Turbo P351-001 Drive shaft

ISRS Round: 4 2 h 30 min Donington Park Date: 19.7.1998
Did not start:
#14 Tim Sugden (GB), Grant Orbell (ZA), William Hewland (GB)
BRM - BRM P301 Nissan 3.0L V6 Turbo P351-001 Accident in practice
http://www.racingspo...8-07-19-014.jpg

ISRS Round: 5 2 h 30 min Anderstorp Date: 16.8.1998
In entry list only:
#14 Tim Sugden (GB), Grant Orbell (ZA), William Hewland (GB)
BRM - BRM P301 Nissan 3.0L V6 Turbo P351-001

http://members.madas...nson/lemans.htm

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#11 ensign14

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 16:09

Originally posted by Paul Taylor
...but other than the name and the badge, is it related to this in any way?:

The Owen family retained the rights to the name BRM and licensed it to Mangoletsi. So there is a linear connexion.

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#12 cosworth bdg

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 00:14

Originally posted by ensign14
The Owen family retained the rights to the name BRM and licensed it to Mangoletsi. So there is a linear connexion.

A very SAD end to a once great name.

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#13 RaymondMays

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 16:31

There is a little bit more of a connection between this car and BRM. The car obviously visited Bourne and was worked on by former BRM designer, Mike Pilbeam, as can be seen on the Pilbeam Racing website.

Of course, Pilbeam have gone on to build their own Le Mans cars, and have followed in the great tradition of BRM by DNFing in their first two attempts, and coming in last (at least they finised - a pretty amazing result, considering) in 2006!

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#14 Team Gunston

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 22:08

Just an anecdotic and personal remark on my part : I was present at Le Mans in 1992, and it was a sad and rather surrealistic edition because of the incredible small number of cars that were entered that year. The only thing I enjoyed in 1992 was the return of BRM and, although the car was not so impressive on the track and desapeared quickly, the promoters of the team organized some interesting public relations and business in the village. I bought them a superb BRM T-shirt I still have today, and that saved my 1992 Le Mans from a mere disaster as a spectator.

In my opinion, the BRM P351, in its dark green and orange livery, was the best looking Group C car in 1992. And during the few laps its engine worked properly, it was a pleasure to listen its melody. I'm a Frenchman who always loved BRMs and I do not consider the P351 as a bad duck. Just an unfulfilled project.

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#15 cosworth bdg

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 00:35

The project also has another bit of saddness in it in that the WESLAKE V12 design was resurected with modern technology but the people involved with the engine side thought they had the expertise to carry out this engine development succesfully, in actual fact i think they were very short on BUDGET, very very short.........

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#16 Hugewally

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 01:27

Other shots of the car @ Watkins Glen '92.

http://homepage.mac....race/brm92.html

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#17 RTH

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 15:07

Where is the car (or cars) now ?

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#18 Alan Cox

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 17:27

Roger Ellis has provided a press pack for the P351, and its proposed sister road car, the P401.

Here are a few extracts:

Posted Image

P351

The road car. P401

Posted Image

http://snap31.photobox.co.uk/20910397403af5183e97f140de1d2e5bf4205392f1444ccec8a82122.jpg[/url]

Posted Image

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#19 Peter Darley

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 19:23

Slightly Off Topic, but did not BRM have an agreement with Austin Rover to produce a limited run of BRM badged Rover 45's. I seem to remember they had an orange painted lower grille.

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#20 David Beard

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 19:35

Originally posted by Peter Darley
Slightly Off Topic, but did not BRM have an agreement with Austin Rover to produce a limited run of BRM badged Rover 45's. I seem to remember they had an orange painted lower grille.

25s I think. An accountant at work had one, and hadn't the faintest idea why it was painted that way...

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#21 Pedro 917

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 19:36

It was a Rover 25, have a brochure somewhere in the garage. My friend bought me the BRM logos.

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#22 Alan Cox

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 20:35

I believe that the Rover-BRM 200 was largely a cosmetic tart-up of the 25, changes being limited to lowered suspension, different gearbox and a torque-sensing differential. Trim was red leather and a limited run of 750 was proposed - I don't know if they ever produced that many. BRM input appears to have been 'nil'.

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#23 Doug Nye

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 22:54

Please - other than well-intentioned, good-hearted and typically generous permission from David Owen - plus some work to commission by Mike Pilbeam some 20 years after he had left BRM at Bourne - this unfortunate (if aesthetically quite handsome) heap of umbala has NOTHING to do with BRM beyond use of the name. BRM died at the end of 1974 and, typically, the head did not realise the body was dead until a few more years' twitching had finally been stilled...

But not enough years to join up with the Mangoletsi flop.

DCN

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#24 cosworth bdg

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Posted 16 January 2007 - 01:56

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Please - other than well-intentioned, good-hearted and typically generous permission from David Owen - plus some work to commission by Mike Pilbeam some 20 years after he had left BRM at Bourne - this unfortunate (if aesthetically quite handsome) heap of umbala has NOTHING to do with BRM beyond use of the name. BRM died at the end of 1974 and, typically, the head did not realise the body was dead until a few more years' twitching had finally been stilled...

But not enough years to join up with the Mangoletsi flop.

DCN

HERE ,HERE, Cheers, P N................