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Any news if Formula1 will broadcast in High Definition in 2007?

Started by Bluesmoke , Dec 07 2006 16:33

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179 replies to this topic

#51 jb_128

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Posted 08 June 2007 - 23:25

Originally posted by rye&ginger

The resolution (1080p) is not linked to the framerate. TV framerate is 30 fps, not 25 I think.

We'll not see anything greater than 30 fps from a broadcast as the bandwidth is not available for some time. I imagine that will take 20-30 years when the next version of HDTV comes about.

The World Cup in HD was amazing. It would do wonders for F1.

We already are getting higher than 30 fps. Football and F1 would be awful at 30 fps. I have a clip on by HD from last year's world cup: 720p 60fps broadcast by abc.

The idea that TV only runs at 25/30 Hz is a very common misconception due to the way movies are transferred from film to TV (2 fields = 1 frame). For video content like sports each field actually represents a different moment in time, resulting in a motion frequency of 50/60 Hz. More information here: http://www.100fps.com/

#52 gwk

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Posted 09 June 2007 - 02:21

Originally posted by jaisli

Just as a reminder to everybody in the US, the Canadian Grand Prix will not be shown on Speed but will be on FOX, Sunday at 1:00 pm.

Fox DOES broadcast in high definition. But I don't know if the feed will be in high def.

According to the channel guide provided by Verizon FiOS, Fox will broadcast the Canadian GP in HD.

#53 jb_128

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Posted 09 June 2007 - 13:57

Originally posted by gwk
Originally posted by jaisli

According to the channel guide provided by Verizon FiOS, Fox will broadcast the Canadian GP in HD.

YAY! Get your HDTV tuners and torrent software ready! (or else)

#54 robnyc

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Posted 09 June 2007 - 15:06

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#55 Lantern

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 00:32

Originally posted by jaisli

Just as a reminder to everybody in the US, the Canadian Grand Prix will not be shown on Speed but will be on FOX, Sunday at 1:00 pm.

Fox DOES broadcast in high definition. But I don't know if the feed will be in high def.

Also, to my delight the SPEED TV crew will be doing the race on Fox.

What sucks is that for the USGP I'll be at the track with my little Kangaroo TV and unable to enjoy the track pass stuff.

......OOOhh just thought. I could take my laptop to the track and have it all. Hmmmmm.....

#56 jb_128

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 20:08

Originally posted by gwk
Originally posted by jaisli

According to the channel guide provided by Verizon FiOS, Fox will broadcast the Canadian GP in HD.

So was it HD? Where are the downloadable clips?

#57 gwk

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 20:39

So was it HD?

I dunno ..... didn't look all that great, did it? Maybe only 720i?

In contrast, the quality of the NASCAR broadcast (race just now getting started after a rain delay) is stunning.

#58 ebin

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 21:12

Yeah, it was in HD but the quality seems to vary station to station. The US networks have better HD quality than the Canadians from my experience - NASCAR, PGA and NFL are all first rate. I find the Canadian channels have choppy service and lower picture quality.

#59 Wout

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 21:23

It probably was an upscaled 480P signal.

I just spoke about this last weekend with someone who works on the RTL GP program (Dutch). FOM has the equipment to do HD, but some races that are still done by local crews don't. And they don't want to air some races in HD, and some in SD.

So all the races have been in SD this season.

#60 jondoe955

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Posted 11 June 2007 - 13:38

If you can get the signal, terrestrial broadcast is better than the highly compressed cable/satellite signal. And you don't need a cable box.
(I've read some swear they get unscrambled cable channel shows over their antenna. If this is so, it must be some test site or something temporary)
And - I still can't believe that the sponsors aren't demanding clearer images.
But - I also cant believe F1 will ever be shown in HD unless Bernie sells it as PPV. I hope I'm wrong, because I'm pretty cheap! As much as I gripe about the transmission, I don't want to pay extra for it. I'm already robbed by the friggin cable company - and the cost of the big screen - the one I'm expecting to someday come home to and find I've been robbed of.
HD vs true widescreen SD? Tough choice. I lean towards a clearer picture - except when the camera guy just misses or can't pan/zoom fast enough to keep up with an incident. grrrrr
(how long will it be before some AI program in the camera, which predicts the traffic patterns it sees, will quickly recognize something is 'different' - and follow the anomaly?)

#61 jb_128

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Posted 11 June 2007 - 16:13

German public broadcasting companies have announced that they will begin the push towards HD in 2011. And they will probably be first apart from payTV...

#62 jaisli

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Posted 11 June 2007 - 16:26

Originally posted by jb_128

So was it HD? Where are the downloadable clips?

Yeah it was. Although there wasn't a huge difference so as others have mentioned, it was probably 480p. I switched around a few times between the regular Fox broadcast and the high-def broadcast and you could certainly see a difference. Some angles were better than others and obviously the in-car shots weren't in high-def. And it was broadcast in 4:3, not wide screen.

I'd be happy to see the rest of the season on Fox so long as the Speed announcers stay on. Although the lack of a pre-race show and interviews was kind of frustrating.

#63 jyzz

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Posted 11 June 2007 - 17:27

Originally posted by jb_128

So was it HD?

The FOX terrestial (ATSC) transmission was in 720p
but the actual material was 4:3, probably what benn5325 said above :down:

the commercials were also quite variable.
Some were 16:9 and some were local stuff.

This is one notch below the usual TSN broadcast this season.
At least they had 16:9 and probably 854x840.

Just as an aside,
from the movie studio perspective,
Disney (major shareholder of ESPN / TSN) has been more aggressive in releasing quality hi-def movies than Fox. Fox was well known for its reluctance for digital media even back in the DVD days.

#64 Melbourne Park

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Posted 11 June 2007 - 18:38

I thought the Australian GP was broadcast in HD this year.

In Australia though, I don't think the HD is the best quality available.

And even if a channel broadcast the best quality available, what it might be broadcasting might not be true HD either.

In Australia, the HD broadcasting terrestial is as follows:

576p (576 horizontal lines progressive)
- supported by SBS, Seven, Prime
- data rate: 10-13 Mbps
- 576 horizontal lines progressive x 720 active pixels
- vertical frequency 50Hz progressive

720p (720 horizontal lines progressive)
- used by ABC
- data rate: 10-13 Mbps
- 720 horizontal lines progressive x 1280 active pixels
- vertical frequency 50Hz progressive

1080i (1080 horizontal lines interlaced)
- supported by Nine, Ten, WIN, NBN & Southern Cross Ten, Tas Digital
- currently being tested by Seven in Sydney and Melbourne
- data rate 13-15 Mbps
- 1080 horizontal lines interlaced x 1440 active pixels broadcast by all broadcasters excluding Ten and Nine Perth
- 1080 horizontal lines interlaced x 1920 active pixels broadcast by Ten and Nine Perth
- vertical frequency 50Hz interlaced

I am not sure if its really worth going 1920x1080 yet, maybe a less resolution would typicall be as good.

And LCDs don't show sport as well as Plasma - although there is now a 5ms refresh on the latest LCDs (but not Sony yet).

#65 caedwa

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Posted 14 June 2007 - 11:52

Originally posted by Melbourne Park
I thought the Australian GP was broadcast in HD this year.

In Australia though, I don't think the HD is the best quality available.

Unfortunately it wasn't broadcast in HD. But the widescreen SD picture this year is a huge improvement over what we had last year, so it's a step in the right direction at least.

#66 Melbourne Park

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Posted 14 June 2007 - 13:15

Originally posted by caedwa

Unfortunately it wasn't broadcast in HD. But the widescreen SD picture this year is a huge improvement over what we had last year, so it's a step in the right direction at least.

I read that it was the first time for an F1 GP in HD; maybe someone somewhere got it in HD ...

#67 ExxonValdez

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Posted 14 June 2007 - 13:44

Actually, it's broadcasted in High Definition since the first race in Australia. At least, the DVD's that I've been buying race after race are in High Definition and cinema-like wide of screen.

#68 Rade

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Posted 14 June 2007 - 15:27

Originally posted by ExxonValdez
Actually, it's broadcasted in High Definition since the first race in Australia. At least, the DVD's that I've been buying race after race are in High Definition and cinema-like wide of screen.

DVD's don't support HD format :smoking:

#69 ExxonValdez

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Posted 14 June 2007 - 15:36

Well: I can see the races of 2007 in DVD with the quality of a Hollywood movie.

#70 Rade

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Posted 14 June 2007 - 16:13

But that's not HD

#71 ExxonValdez

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Posted 14 June 2007 - 16:25

OK.

¿Don't you really have the Formula 1 single races of the 2007 in DVD this year in English?

#72 Wout

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Posted 14 June 2007 - 16:31

Originally posted by ExxonValdez
Well: I can see the races of 2007 in DVD with the quality of a Hollywood movie.

A DVD is NTSC (640x480), HD is either 720P (1280x720) or 1080i (1920x1080).

So you can't tell from a DVD what the source is.

#73 Melbourne Park

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 00:15

Originally posted by ExxonValdez
Well: I can see the races of 2007 in DVD with the quality of a Hollywood movie.

Rubbish in - rubbish out.

The hollywood movies shown on your TV will not have the colour gamut they display when shown at the movie theatre. Your TV is the likely bottleneck, but so too might be the transmission itself if you have an HD TV and were watching a hollywood movie.

If you had for instance a BlueRay drive, a BlueRay disk, and an HD TV, you'd come closer to seeing Hollywood colour.

Tthe Ferrari this year has an excellent, deeper more metallic red - but I'd bet your DVD will not show it when it comes out next year. So too the silver on the McLarens - they look much better in real life. I'd like to see them in HD, but so far HD is not being transmitted.

Do those lucky US HD owners who watch the US HD motor races, how does the silver paint work look? How do they look compared to at the track?

I imagine that silver is difficult to show on TVs, but I've seen BluRay watches and their internals, and the brass, silver and gold colours do look to demonstrate a far superior colour gamut than is available on DVD. It can only get better I guess.

#74 sejanus

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 01:55

Originally posted by ExxonValdez
Actually, it's broadcasted in High Definition since the first race in Australia. At least, the DVD's that I've been buying race after race are in High Definition and cinema-like wide of screen.

dvd is not high def. far from it. dvd is usually compressed quite a bit as the discs are relatively small.

high def on disc is available on blu-ray or on hd-dvd. neither of which have big market penetration yet unfortunately.

widescreen is also not related to being hd.

If you want to see high def as it's meant to, get a tv that can do 1920x1080 resolution, then get a PS3 (or some other bluray player) and get casino royale or pirates of caribbean on bluray. They run at 1080p and they look so good, when you switch back to normal tv it looks horrible.

Also get a grunty sound system as the discs have a uncompressed sound track due to the extra space available on a bluray disc - the sound is probably a bigger jump than the picture quality.

I like my hi fi toys

Whatever f1 races on dvd you are watching, it ain't high def.

#75 Happs

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 21:02

The French GP was definitely in High Def on FOX. First time I've ever seen an F1 race in high definition. It was amazing. :clap:

Even though the race was average, I was glued to the tv because I could finally see the cars almost as well as when I attend a race.

BTW- I have a samsung 61' dlp.

Hopefully British GP will also be in High Definition.

#76 Wout

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 09:13

Originally posted by Happs
The French GP was definitely in High Def on FOX. First time I've ever seen an F1 race in high definition. It was amazing.

Even though the race was average, I was glued to the tv because I could finally see the cars almost as well as when I attend a race.

BTW- I have a samsung 61' dlp.

Hopefully British GP will also be in High Definition.

Still don't think so. As far as I know there just aren't any HD track cameras yet. And a recording of the race was just released on Usenet, and it's normal SDTV. If a HDTV feed was available it would definitely be put online

#77 vanfriends

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 09:36

According to pitpass.com the HD cameras were acquired already last year.
http://www.pitpass.c...es_art_id=27731

#78 jyzz

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 20:09

Originally posted by Happs
The French GP was definitely in High Def on FOX. First time I've ever seen an F1 race in high definition. It was amazing.

Even though the race was average, I was glued to the tv because I could finally see the cars almost as well as when I attend a race.

BTW- I have a samsung 61' dlp.

Hopefully British GP will also be in High Definition.

I agree with you Happs

I am definitely seeing a native 720p in 16x9 format on my Fox OTA broadcast.
It was not quite up there with the sharp 1080i NFL games, but pretty much on par with NASCAR HD. Unfortunately audio didn't change much

There is a huge PQ difference when broadcast switched to the helmet / car cams.
Towards the very end of the race, however, it was clear that the track cam went back to SD

I even suspect that some of the long shots during USGP was also 720p as well.

#79 Alaweni

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 20:37

I'm 99% sure there were HD cameras at the USGP. I stopped in the Formula BMW hospitality tent and they were showing the IMSA GT3 race on the live track feed and it was HD. I asked someone what feed it was and she left to check...when she came back she said "channel 3". :stoned:

#80 Happs

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 23:59

I don't know about all the fancy technical terms but Isince I've had HD for about 2 years now, I can definetly tell the difference between HD and Non HD.

The French GP was definetly in HD most of the time. However, when they switched to different camera angles, it wasn't HD.

I have it recorded on my DVR and have watched multiple times because of the HD quality. I would never do that normally. I'm surprised no one else has said anything.

One way I can tell it's HD is that when it's not HD my TV shows a square picture with black bars on the outside. When it's in HD it covers the entire screen.

Anyways, my apologies for not being able to describe it in technical terms.

#81 caedwa

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 12:00

Originally posted by Happs
Tne way I can tell it's HD is that when it's not HD my TV shows a square picture with black bars on the outside. When it's in HD it covers the entire screen.

Just because the picture is widescreen doesn't mean it's in high definition. Although in the US it seems to usually be a pretty good guide. But here in Australia almost everything is in widescreen, except a few imported shows, but not all of it's in HD. I'll try taping the HD channel for this weekend's GP.

Does anyone have any screenshots??

#82 Wout

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 12:40

Just because the signal is HD, doesn't mean the source is. They can just upscale 480p to 720p.

But yeah, I'd be interested in seeing some pics or sample clips

#83 Randy Martin

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 20:32

The French GP on Fox was in wide screen, but it definitely was not in HD.

#84 pacwest

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Posted 05 July 2007 - 17:22

Here in Canada on TSN-HD it's very clear. The in car shots are widescreen sdtv. It then will switch back to track angle (hdtv) and kaboom, far better picture.

#85 Happs

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Posted 05 July 2007 - 18:43

Originally posted by pacwest
Here in Canada on TSN-HD it's very clear. The in car shots are widescreen sdtv. It then will switch back to track angle (hdtv) and kaboom, far better picture.

Again, I'm no expert at all in this, but this is the effect I noticed.

#86 Witt

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 04:03

F1 is broadcast in Standard Definition digital. As of yet, no broadcasts have been broadcast in High Definition anywhere.

The reason for the relatively poor picture quality of the incar shots is because it's a 4:3 camera on the cars, and the picture is zoomed in to fill the full 16:9 widescreen dimensions. This also explains why the in-car shots this year are a different perspective to past years.

#87 AD

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 21:21

Was it the old BernieVision crew covering the French GP? I thought there were some fantastic camera shots in that race.

I think people on here by know my thoughts on disabandonment of the BernieVision coverage ... but I think this is another opportunity for me to harp on about the 2002 F1 season. For me that was the best year of watching F1, the coverage was as near perfect as it could possibly be. Every race seemed exciting with BernieVision and it's 8 channels ... oh I miss it

Surely the correct solution is to have a standard stand-alone BernieVision crew, who provide the most advanced TV coverage in the world (HD, 16:9, anything else that's great). Pay TV channels can provide the interactive coverage, and the terrestrial channels can cover the world feed from the BernieVision. Sponsor's are happy, fans are happy ... I know it may lose some money, but in the long run it will be beneficial as it'll attract many new fans.

#88 Bluesmoke

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 02:40

Just wanted to revise this thread.

Wasn't the last few GPs in 07 supposed to be in HD? Japan seems as likely than any other given how much the Japanese love tech.

#89 Clatter

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 08:46

Originally posted by Bluesmoke
Just wanted to revise this thread.

Wasn't the last few GPs in 07 supposed to be in HD? Japan seems as likely than any other given how much the Japanese love tech.

Depends on if there is a HD feed available, and then it's down to the whim's of your local broadcaster. Here in the UK we have no chance as ITV does not broadcast in HD on any platform yet.

#90 Bloggsworth

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 09:25

Who cares - all we would get is a more detailed borefest.....................

#91 Bloggsworth

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 09:31

And anyway, HD television has nothing to do with your viewing pleasure and everything to do with manufacturers selling more and more higher priced televisions and all the expensive production and pre-production kit that goes with them.

#92 kar

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 09:50

Originally posted by Bloggsworth
And anyway, HD television has nothing to do with your viewing pleasure and everything to do with manufacturers selling more and more higher priced televisions and all the expensive production and pre-production kit that goes with them.

Are you joking?

I'm assuming from this statement that you in fact don't have a high def tele, nor have probably watched anything of substance on one because the difference between ITV digital and high def on my tele is like night and day.

On modern LCD/Plasma panels standard digital looks pretty poor. On your normal tele it's fine, but since on high def panels it has to stretch the image to fit the resolution of the screen the result is not always pretty. Particularly with fast moving content, like F1.

Transmitting in high def means these panels can display at their native resolution and it appears vastly superior in quality to standard digital.

I can't honestly believe you came out with this comment to be honest, shades of Jackie Stewart... (Comment without suitable awareness of the subject being commented upon...)

#93 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 09:50

HD is a noticeable difference and imo improvement. It looks 'real'

How far are we away from HD quality onboards? As it stands the current onboards in all forms of racing aren't as good an image as the trackside cameras.

#94 Bloggsworth

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 09:54

Originally posted by kar

Are you joking?

I'm assuming from this statement that you in fact don't have a high def tele, nor have probably watched anything of substance on one because the difference between ITV digital and high def on my tele is like night and day.

On modern LCD/Plasma panels standard digital looks pretty poor. On your normal tele it's fine, but since on high def panels it has to stretch the image to fit the resolution of the screen the result is not always pretty. Particularly with fast moving content, like F1.

Transmitting in high def means these panels can display at their native resolution and it appears vastly superior in quality to standard digital.

I can't honestly believe you came out with this comment to be honest, shades of Jackie Stewart... (Comment without basis or relevant experience).

In 1946 the BBC proposed that televisions should have a 1000 line definition, the proposal was turned down as it was thought that people would then be forced to throw away perfectly good televisions in order to upgrade. Ask yourself whether it is worth wrecking the planet just so that you can now see the previously invisible hairs on Nicole Kiddman's top lip.............................

#95 firebone

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 10:10

High definition broadcasting is definitely worth it- I find it hard to believe you have ever watched a sporting event in HD. Difference is mind blowing, through my provider I have seperate feeds of non-hd and hd, and switching between the 2 it looks like the non-HD is footage from the 1970s.

I'll be extremely satisfied once everything is broadcast in HD.

#96 kar

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 10:48

Originally posted by Bloggsworth
Ask yourself whether it is worth wrecking the planet just so that you can now see the previously invisible hairs on Nicole Kiddman's top lip.............................

That's an interesting statement, LCD televisions, the ascendant high def technology, use far less power and generate less radiation compared with traditional, low def, CRT televisions.

And the fatuous argument that since existing technology is 'good enough why upgrade', well, simply put if it's not worth it for you, don't. For many people existing technology isn't 'good enough' and so they buy better equipment and have the not too unreasonable expectation that content should make use of the new technology.

This doesn't change the _facts_ that HD is vastly superior to standard definition, most brand new sets use far less power than CRTs and are less dangerous and environmentally friendly to dispose of.

#97 Sphinx

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 13:16

DirecTV sat is upgrading SPEED to HD by end of year. One step closer.

http://www.directv.c...-Q407-RHR-100HD

#98 noikeee

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 13:20

Originally posted by Bloggsworth

In 1946 the BBC proposed that televisions should have a 1000 line definition, the proposal was turned down as it was thought that people would then be forced to throw away perfectly good televisions in order to upgrade. Ask yourself whether it is worth wrecking the planet just so that you can now see the previously invisible hairs on Nicole Kiddman's top lip.............................

Wrecking the planet :rotfl:

Are you some sort of angry hippy?

#99 Clatter

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 13:31

Originally posted by kar
because the difference between ITV digital and high def on my tele is like night and day.

That is not a consequence of HD being better, but rather the fact that the digital channels are over compressed. ITV as a major player, are one of the worst for this.

#100 F1Fanatic.co.uk

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 13:45

Any news if Formula1 will broadcast in High Definition in 2007?

We're going to have to change the thread title to "Any news if Formula 1 will broadcast in High Definition in 2008?" It's pathetic that it's taking this long (in the UK anyway).

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