Found these very interesting, super 8 films, apparently from the sixties, from amateurs driving on the ring, or rather, messing up a specific corner. Does any one of the afficionados on this board know this turn and know why the people mess it up so badly? It looks like the filmer did not have to wait for yet again an enthousiast messing it up.
And it also puts the question: are trackday's a good idea...
(It would be fun if someone would recognise his or her uncle...;)
WARNING: I do no know if these images show casualties or wounded. Viewers discretion asked.
Amateur film Nordschleife, Adenauer Forst
Started by
Jerome
, Feb 15 2007 19:49
20 replies to this topic
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#2
Jerome
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Posted 15 February 2007 - 19:52
And apparently few of the drivers used safetybelts... one of them falls out of the car, luckily at low speed, and others roll in the car when the car spins...
#4
Ralf Pickel
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Posted 15 February 2007 - 19:56
If you watch the onboard video ( sorry for the quality - it was done by my copilot during last years Vintage Nürburgring ), it is the more or less blind double apex left hand corner at about 35 secs. running time.
It, indeed, is a not so easy to get right corner, especially, if you have no experience on the Nordschleife ! It also does not help, if your car is rather tailhappy - and you realise too late, that you have to turn quite sharply there - the entry is also relatively quick.
Nordschleife
It, indeed, is a not so easy to get right corner, especially, if you have no experience on the Nordschleife ! It also does not help, if your car is rather tailhappy - and you realise too late, that you have to turn quite sharply there - the entry is also relatively quick.
Nordschleife
#5
Jerome
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Posted 15 February 2007 - 20:05
Thanx Ralf!
Funny, it is a very tight section, you would not expect people coming through at the speed that some people come through... did you watch part 2 too? It looks like the cameraman almost did not have to shut off his camera because oops, here came another one!
Funny, it is a very tight section, you would not expect people coming through at the speed that some people come through... did you watch part 2 too? It looks like the cameraman almost did not have to shut off his camera because oops, here came another one!
#6
bigears
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Posted 15 February 2007 - 20:16
Ah, this video clip was extracted from a video called Rhapsodie in Blech.
It was a compliation made by Manfred Förster who lived near the track and regularly went to the Adenau Forst section. I believe the compliation lasts for about an half-hour. He sells his homemade hour long dvds somewhere.
I remember the name of Manfred Forster. He made some fantastic photos at the 1976 German Grand Prix like this:
I would love to see more of his work though.
I am still amazed with the driver being thrown out of his green Beetle after spinning off the kerbs.
It was a compliation made by Manfred Förster who lived near the track and regularly went to the Adenau Forst section. I believe the compliation lasts for about an half-hour. He sells his homemade hour long dvds somewhere.
I remember the name of Manfred Forster. He made some fantastic photos at the 1976 German Grand Prix like this:
I would love to see more of his work though.
I am still amazed with the driver being thrown out of his green Beetle after spinning off the kerbs.
#7
Jerome
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Posted 15 February 2007 - 21:09
The most strangest thing is... I have the strong impression the guy falls from the car deliberately!Perhaps he thought the car was going to plunge in the depth behind the guardrail.
Another thought: what would be the fastest time anyone set with a standard VW Beatle?
Another thought: what would be the fastest time anyone set with a standard VW Beatle?
#8
turin
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Posted 15 February 2007 - 21:10
Originally posted by bigears
I am still amazed with the driver being thrown out of his green Beetle after spinning off the kerbs.
and how about the beetle cabrio, with 3 passengers?
that was asking for trouble.
#9
Jerome
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Posted 15 February 2007 - 21:20
Those guys were absolutely idiotic... but I have the impression several of the severest crashes had something sitting on the backbench... ofcourse without safetybelts...
#10
2F-001
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Posted 15 February 2007 - 21:30
Ad Forst is perhaps the most likely place for a newcomer to leave the road - hence quite a lot of spectators and folks with videoo cameras cameras gather their to watch! It comes just after the fast downhill Fuchsrohre section - and the left-hander at the bottom is quick too. That section is quite exhilerating to drive and gets people's adrenalin flowing somewhat so I guess that helps to catch out the unwary.
The approach to the bend in question is over a slight crest too and you can't (in a low car at least) quite see the apex to aim for until after you've turned in (to the left, prior to the right where thay all come unstuck). It's a pretty tight left and I think when folk realise the road is disappearing away to the left there is a reluctance to keep going deep - especially if they are carrying too much speed; panic sets in and they turn, probably making an apex on their left as much as two car lengths or more too early and going too fast.
I reckon it's one of the few places on the 'Ring were the road really does seem to go where you don't expect it to! In fact you need to go in really deep, over to the right (which you can't see in the film) and not too fast because the spot you need to aim for is then somewhere over your left shoulder and out of sight until after you've turned in.
I've only done track days at the RIng by way - I have no desire to race there; far too unnerving for me!
The approach to the bend in question is over a slight crest too and you can't (in a low car at least) quite see the apex to aim for until after you've turned in (to the left, prior to the right where thay all come unstuck). It's a pretty tight left and I think when folk realise the road is disappearing away to the left there is a reluctance to keep going deep - especially if they are carrying too much speed; panic sets in and they turn, probably making an apex on their left as much as two car lengths or more too early and going too fast.
I reckon it's one of the few places on the 'Ring were the road really does seem to go where you don't expect it to! In fact you need to go in really deep, over to the right (which you can't see in the film) and not too fast because the spot you need to aim for is then somewhere over your left shoulder and out of sight until after you've turned in.
I've only done track days at the RIng by way - I have no desire to race there; far too unnerving for me!
#11
Martin Roessler
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Posted 15 February 2007 - 21:31
jees...those guys in the convertible are damn lucky!
#12
Tony Kingston
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Posted 15 February 2007 - 21:55
I think the real danger of this is that it comes directlly after the "foxhole" which is a very fast flowing section. Leaving the foxhole there is a quick left which is followed by a fairly quick right and then all of a sudden you are faced with ( as Ralf Pickel says ) a blind double apex left. It is almost designed to catch out the inexperienced. I made a complete mess of it on my first lap and I was being very cautious in my 316.
Probably not nostalgia but the best onboard lap I've seen is this one
from a "Radical"sports car.
Turn the sound up.
(Edit, 2F's description is much better than mine. BTW I've only done a few laps in my road cars.)
Probably not nostalgia but the best onboard lap I've seen is this one
from a "Radical"sports car.
Turn the sound up.
(Edit, 2F's description is much better than mine. BTW I've only done a few laps in my road cars.)
#13
2F-001
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Posted 15 February 2007 - 22:36
That's really impressive, isnt it? Almosy scary...
Vergers turns into Ad Forst (and a few other palces) rather ealier than I might have expected, but perhaps that's typical of high-grip, high-downforce cars that can than carry lots of speed into corners. Mind you, he actually knows what he's doing where as I just kid myself that I do.
Interesting to see the driver tightening his shoulder straps shortly after Bergwerk and onto Kesselchen.
Vergers turns into Ad Forst (and a few other palces) rather ealier than I might have expected, but perhaps that's typical of high-grip, high-downforce cars that can than carry lots of speed into corners. Mind you, he actually knows what he's doing where as I just kid myself that I do.
Interesting to see the driver tightening his shoulder straps shortly after Bergwerk and onto Kesselchen.
#14
Doug Nye
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Posted 15 February 2007 - 23:08
Phil Hill didn't try the Nordschleife for many years after it was modernised, and for all I know might not have driven it yet. He had shattered the lap record on the original course in 1961 and won there for Ferrari and for Chaparral and always said he preferred simply to remember it as it had been.
Having driven it myself in the days of the hedgerows and trackside trees and drops it IS a different place, and a different chalenge - but it's certainly still impressive to see that different challenge being met.
DCN
Having driven it myself in the days of the hedgerows and trackside trees and drops it IS a different place, and a different chalenge - but it's certainly still impressive to see that different challenge being met.
DCN
#15
robroy
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Posted 15 February 2007 - 23:17
In the original video clip of crashes, at 1 min02 theres an opel rekord(?) that takes the perfect 'off road' line. Looks like he intended to do it or am I dreaming?
Reckon that would shave off at least 7 or 8 seconds!
Reckon that would shave off at least 7 or 8 seconds!
#16
Ray Bell
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Posted 16 February 2007 - 00:45
Originally posted by Doug Nye
.....Having driven it myself in the days of the hedgerows and trackside trees and drops it IS a different place, and a different chalenge - but it's certainly still impressive to see that different challenge being met.
I guess this is why John Surtees once told me he didn't like 'the new Nurburgring'...
#17
seldo
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Posted 16 February 2007 - 02:15
What carnage! But I'm surprised that no-one else has picked up the common denominator - DSAS......DSAS...??? .... The Dreaded Swing-axle Syndome.
Every single car that had a problem had swing-axle rear suspension!
So I would guess that there's probably a flip-flop down-hill entry into the corner and they all come into it hard on the brakes with the back wheels hanging at full stretch and carrying about 15deg of positive rear camber - a sure recipe for disaster...
Every single car that had a problem had swing-axle rear suspension!
So I would guess that there's probably a flip-flop down-hill entry into the corner and they all come into it hard on the brakes with the back wheels hanging at full stretch and carrying about 15deg of positive rear camber - a sure recipe for disaster...
#18
bigears
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Posted 16 February 2007 - 12:14
Originally posted by Doug Nye
Having driven it myself in the days of the hedgerows and trackside trees and drops it IS a different place, and a different chalenge - but it's certainly still impressive to see that different challenge being met.
DCN
I am so jealous! I would have loved to witness the Nurburgring in its original glory.
#19
Jerome
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Posted 16 February 2007 - 12:53
Dreaded Swing-axle Syndrome, I never heard of it, but it sounds (apart from the very knowledge-able info of once drivers on the ring, thanx!) appealing. If I watch some of the cars suddenly swinging and often turning over, I can almost SENSE the suprise of the driver. You kind of accept that the car would break out with his back to the right rear of the car. But not that when you apply opposite lock, the front end of the car first grabs the road, then lets go, and then makes the backend swing like Elvis. And hop up in the ear. Ah gravity is a cruel mistress...
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#20
Pedro 917
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Posted 16 February 2007 - 14:03
The complete video was always shown at the Essen Motor Show (formerly known as the Jochen Rindt Show), probably at the Manfred Förster stand. It drew many spectators who had a good laugh with the crashes. Manfred Förster's is selling his pictures at the Essen Techno Classic fair, I believe this year's edition is in April.
#21
Rob Semmeling
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Posted 16 February 2007 - 15:06
There's two volumes in fact, both by Jürgen Sander. Originally released on Futura Video. Manfred Förster did the editing; he currently sells volume one on DVD I believe.
