14 replies to this topic

[Formula Once]

I expect this to be discussed maybe here already, but...

Niki Lauda has said that on the Monday after winning the 1977 Dutch Grand Prix he went to Maranello and told Ferrari he would leave the team, although he had agreed a new contract for beyond '77 earlier that year.

Gerald Donaldson's book on Gilles Villeneuve states that Gilles (on whom McLaren had an option until October 31, although they told him at the Mosport 6 Hrs they were not going to give him a contract) met Ferrari on that same Monday August 29 - after having received a call from Italy a few days earlier - and was told that he was in with a chance for a drive and they'd be in touch.

Meanwhile, Patrick Tambay claims that he was approached by Ferrari during the Austrian GP (August 14) and that he was supposed to meet Ferrari on August 17, but that the meeting was posponed because Enzo was ill. He was then pushed by McLaren to sign for them and says he ran into Villeneuve at the Trois-Riveires Can-Am race (early September), telling him that he had signed for McLaren and that Gilles should go to Italy and try and get the Ferrari deal.

Villeneuve did go, to Monza for the Grand Prix (September 11, invited by Ferrari), where McLaren and Marlboro told him their option would be terminated if Ferrari would want to sign him. Meanwhile, at around the same time Ferrari made offers to Andretti, Jones and Scheckter for '78. Right after Monza, Villeneuve tested a T2 at Fiorano as had Cheever and (Donaldson writes) Andretti (did he?). Mario turned down the offer shortly after and Villeneuve signed a deal for the final two '77 races and the '78 season on September 26.

Now I wonder (given that Reutemann had a deal with Ferrari for '78 already)...

...did Ferrari first contact Tambay and Villeneuve simply speculating Lauda would leave?
...when did Scheckter re-sign for Wolf i.e. turned Ferrari down?
...was Cheever really seriously considered at any stage?
...did Andretti actually test a Ferrari in 1977?

[Jerome]

Hi, I hesitated a bit before replying, because I can't confirm or deliver new facts for you. But seeing you had no reply so far, I can give you, perhaps, some background WHY Ferrari tried out so many drivers. Perhaps you are aware of this background perhaps not...

[Formula Once]

Don't know if I am aware of anything unless you would be telling what it is. Thanks.

[Ruairidh]

You're correct in that aspects of your questions have been covered before - from memory the Almost Moves thread has posts on the Ferrari-Cheever contract discussions and the issue of whether Mario actually tested a Ferrari has been raised and (IIRC) no-one has positively stated he did test for them in '77.

[fines]

Don't know if I remember everything correctly, but I believe things were thusly...

...did Ferrari first contact Tambay and Villeneuve simply speculating Lauda would leave?
Lauda and Ferrari were on a "reverse honeymoon" ever since Fuji '76, possibly earlier. Apart from that, every major team is constantly on the outlook for "fresh talent", like Tambay and Villeneuve, just in case - I can't imagine Ferrari considered them as Lauda replacements!

...when did Scheckter re-sign for Wolf i.e. turned Ferrari down?
I would guess he had already signed, perhaps even a two-year contract from the start? Otherwise, I really can't see him turning Ferrari down!

...was Cheever really seriously considered at any stage?
See Tambay/Villeneuve, another case of scouting for fresh talent. I believe de Angelis was in the same bracket.

...did Andretti actually test a Ferrari in 1977?
I do recall that Ferrari made a serious bid to sign Andretti, and that Mario contemplated it publicly for a week or so, but I don't recall him testing - actually, I don't think he did.

Ferrari had hoped to find "a new Lauda" in Reutemann, but the real Lauda had made chopped chicken liver of him, so Enzo and his Scuderia found themselves in a real twist when Niki waved goodbye! Cue the famous song, "Panic in Maranello"...

[Jerome]

The only thing I can add is that Ferrari had a major, well, psychological problem with Lauda. On the one hand, they could not believe he was as good as before his accident at the Ring. At the other hand, they were afraid they would be worse off without him, or even worse: that Lauda was going to beat them in the cars of the opposition. Immediately after his accident in 1976 (Lauda says), they contacted Emmerson Fittipaldi. Who refused.

According to Lauda, Enzo Ferrari never forgave him for stepping out of the car at Fuji. Enzo, I think, both hated and loved Lauda. Hated him, because it was so apparent that he needed a special driver to make Ferrari win again. Loved him, because he brought them back to the winning circle.

Then, at the beginning of 1977, Ferrari made Lauda feel like he was the second driver. Reuteman was better, they thought. Lauda had to twist arms to get proper testmileage. They did not believe the technical feedback of Lauda anymore when the car sucked at several races. So probably untill late in 1977, they wanted other drivers, and at the same time Ferrari wanted to hold on to Lauda (for the above mentioned reasons). Only when Lauda became worldchampion - probably the greatested year in a very bad car! - they made up their mind: Lauda was their man. But then Lauda's love was already cooled off.

I think that explains the frantic signing, promising, and other contacting of drivers like Cheever, etc.

[Formula Once]

To add a little to your input, the timeline is a bit different. Ferrari indeed worried about Lauda for quite some time after Nurburging and did offer Fittipaldi and Peterson his car directly after that race (and ultimately signed Reutemann who bought himself out of his Brabham contract) before Lauda's suprise come back at Monza. In fact, after Fuji Ferrari blamed Lauda for coming back too soon (at Monza), seriously pissing his driver off. They even offered him the role of teammanager at that stage. Anyway, when Lauda started winning again (from Kyalami '77 onwards) he and Ferrari soon agreed a new contract for 1978, Lauda even promising that he would drive for them for the rest of his carreer. He later said he did so only to calm things down at Maranello, where they had lost their way quite a bit. However, his difficult relationship with Forghieri, Nosetto, etc. made him change his mind. This was way before he was champion again, that he was only after Watkins Glen, when he had already long signed for Brabham.

[fines]

I always understood that, basically, Lauda was already sure soon after Fuji that he would be leaving Ferrari. He had one more year on his contract and, being the perfectionist that he was at the time [he surely isn't anymore! ], he tried to make the most out of it, i.e. win another championship. For this to work out, he had to "win back" the team, and restore the confidence of the team in itself. This he did shrewdly by promising to stay with the team, but he probably didn't waste a millisecond to look for other options. By August, he was well on his way to the title, and to a job at Bernie's... Mission accomplished!

[COUGAR508]

Originally posted by fines
I always understood that, basically, Lauda was already sure soon after Fuji that he would be leaving Ferrari. He had one more year on his contract and, being the perfectionist that he was at the time [he surely isn't anymore! ], he tried to make the most out of it, i.e. win another championship. For this to work out, he had to "win back" the team, and restore the confidence of the team in itself. This he did shrewdly by promising to stay with the team, but he probably didn't waste a millisecond to look for other options. By August, he was well on his way to the title, and to a job at Bernie's... Mission accomplished!

Lauda probably realised after Fuji' 76 that he would have to grit his teeth and see out 1977 with Ferrari. The relationship with the team management (if not the engineers) seems to have been a fairly cheerless one in 1977, although Niki won the title by sheer hard work and consistency. He was able to combine this endeavour with overtures to other teams about 1978.

Ferrari also appear to have recognised that the relationship with Lauda was beyond repair, and began exploring their options fairly early on.

[Arjan de Roos]

Originally posted by Formula Once
Now I wonder (given that Reutemann had a deal with Ferrari for '78 already)...

[1]...did Ferrari first contact Tambay and Villeneuve simply speculating Lauda would leave?
[2]...when did Scheckter re-sign for Wolf i.e. turned Ferrari down?
[3]...was Cheever really seriously considered at any stage?
[4]...did Andretti actually test a Ferrari in 1977?

[1] Lauda had his accident mid 1976. The way Ferrari had handled him made him emotionally separate with the Scuderia end of 1976. He was also disappointed with the poor dedication to testing by the team after winning the title in 1975. Enzo did offer Lauda a contract for 1978 mid 1977. This he dully refused and stayed on to win the title again. Around that time Forghieri invited Tambay to talk with Ferrari in Maranello. Shortly after this invitation Tambay talked with Marlboro to join McLaren. He was basically offered a contract on the spot. A choice between Hunt or Reutemann, McLaren on Goodyear and Ferrari switching to Michelin. In October Ferrari signed Villeneuve.

[2] I always thought Scheckter had a two year deal with Wolf. He was contacted by Ferrari for serious talks mid 1978. Earlier they had only promised him to talk.

[3] Cheever tested a T2 mid-september 1977. He tested 4-5 days Michelin tyres. Autosprint had organised a non-championship race at Imola for F1 drivers who were yet to score points in the championship. Cheever was to be Ferrari driver (he did have a one race contract). However the race was cancelled and so was Eddie's Ferrari drive. Later that year Villeneuve was signed (Cheever still had a Ferrari contract but also had been injured at Vallelunga). Enzo wanted Cheever to mature with testing, but Eddie wanted out of this contract.... *)

[4] Never heard of it, seems unlikely with Mario at Lotus.

*) In January 1978 De Angelis tested a T3 as Enzo was not so sure on Gilles end of 1977/early 1978: He did break a lot.

[Doug Nye]

The Old Man "both hated Lauda and loved him" pretty much tells the tale. What he most detested about 'Ebreo' - the Hebrew - was that the Maus demanded a contemporarily fabulous amount of money for 'deigning' to drive for Ferrari. Paying through the nose like that to secure a driver - even if Marlboro was footing the bill - really lit his fuse.

He absolutely detested Lauda's mercenary ingratitude - while probably deep inside recognising a kindred spirit - "...if you want me to smile for you, you pay...". And what I would guess he detested even more was that he knew that Lauda knew that The Old Man needed him.

How infuriatingly frustrating must that have been? The old Enzo Svengali business - lording it over ambitious young drivers who were falling over themselves (as Phil Hill once told me) "...to jump into the cooking pot under which The Old Man constantly stoked the fire..." - wouldn't wash with the granite-minded Austrian.

DCN

[RStock]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
The Old Man "both hated Lauda and loved him" pretty much tells the tale. What he most detested about 'Ebreo' - the Hebrew - was that the Maus demanded a contemporarily fabulous amount of money for 'deigning' to drive for Ferrari. Paying through the nose like that to secure a driver - even if Marlboro was footing the bill - really lit his fuse.

He absolutely detested Lauda's mercenary ingratitude - while probably deep inside recognising a kindred spirit - "...if you want me to smile for you, you pay...". And what I would guess he detested even more was that he knew that Lauda knew that The Old Man needed him.

How infuriatingly frustrating must that have been? The old Enzo Svengali business - lording it over ambitious young drivers who were falling over themselves (as Phil Hill once told me) "...to jump into the cooking pot under which The Old Man constantly stoked the fire..." - wouldn't wash with the granite-minded Austrian.

DCN

I once read that Tazio Nuvolari was the last driver that could stand on equal footing with Enzo , but I think the same could be said for Niki , which is one reason I love him so . That and his fortitude to get back in the car after his accident . Something else I once read and always wondered if it's true , was that Niki once told Enzo to his face " Your car is a piece of sh*t ." Nonetheless , I'd say it's true that the old mans BS just didn't wash with Niki . Nor anyone elses BS for that matter .

But I don't know if the team had been scouting talent with the possibility of Niki leaving in mind . From what I know , it was quite a suprise to the team , and things were quite tense when Niki made the announcment . Which leads me to believe it was something out of the blue for the team .

And prehaps they had been pursuing other drivers from back after Niki's accident , when for a time it was wondered if he would make it , or ever get back in a car .

[Arjan de Roos]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
The Old Man "both hated Lauda and loved him" pretty much tells the tale.

They kept both a high respect for one another. Enzo maybe more in his own style. After winning the title Niki send Ferrari a congratulation by telex to which EF responded:

"Caro Niki,

Grazie del tuo telex che mi ha suggerito una amara riflessione: se Lauda avesse ritenuto di restare
alla Ferrari potrebbe aver gia eguagliato il record di Fangio

Cordialmente

11 settembre 1979"

[Bruno]

Originally posted by Arjan de Roos


They kept both a high respect for one another. Enzo maybe more in his own style. After winning the title Niki send Ferrari a congratulation by telex to which EF responded:

"Caro Niki,

Grazie del tuo telex che mi ha suggerito una amara riflessione: se Lauda avesse ritenuto di restare
alla Ferrari potrebbe aver gia eguagliato il record di Fangio

Cordialmente

11 settembre 1979"

Cher Niki,

"merci pour ton telex, qui m'a suggerer une amère réflexion. si Lauda aurait bien voulu rester chez Ferrari, peut-être aurait-il égaler le record de Fangio"

Enzo Ferrari voulait sans doute parler, et du retrait au Mont-Fuji, et de son passage chez Brabham en 1978.
2 années ou il aurait dû remporter le titre mondial.


(télégramme envoyer à la suite des félicitations reçu de Lauda, pour les titres pilote et constructeur 1979)

[subh]

These are Mario Andretti’s words on the Ferrari offer, as relayed by Nigel Roebuck in his 1979 biography:

“That was a really delicate thing. At around mid-season, I signed a letter of intent, agreeing in principle to stay with Colin for 1978. At that time, there was only one other team I would have considered, and that was Ferrari. But there was no inkling in the air that Lauda was going to be leaving, and I sure as hell wasn’t going to Ferrari with him there. That I didn’t need. If I was going there, it was as number one.

“By the time Monza came around, Niki had said he was quitting Ferrari and going with Ecclestone. For all his reasons at the time, I’ll never understand why he did that, but that’s his business. So now the number one seat was up for grabs. Colin is a clever guy, and he likes to make deals early so you don’t have many opportunities to bargain later, to go back and forth. We’d signed the letter of intent, and just before Monza I told him to get the contracts drawn up. At that point we had a commitment to each other, but it could have been broken.

“After Monza I said to Colin, ‘I’m going to see Ferrari’. ‘Don’t,’ he said, ‘because all you will do is confuse yourself and make it hard for yourself’. But I had to satisfy myself, so I went. And the Old Man offered me twice the money I was getting from Colin, plus a lot of other things. The money was so good, I never expected it. In fact, I wish it hadn’t been, because it made the decision so much harder. The money was good, the opportunity was good - I really had to do some soul searching. Deep down I knew that if I had said, ‘Colin, understand this, I do not want to be with you, so let me go’, he would have let me go. But I couldn’t bring myself to say that because I just couldn’t mean it. I was very attached to the team.

“Basically I wanted to stay with Lotus, but there were two things nagging me: Ferrari reliability and Lotus money! I kept thinking about that flat-12 engine. You could nearly always bring those babies home, and I’d just lost the damn World Championship because of engine reliability. That part of Ferrari’s offer was really attractive.

“Colin has always been good to me, and he recognises that it’s important to feel happy with a team. I laid it on the line for him: ‘I can’t feel totally happy driving for you when I know how much money I’m giving up’. No matter how much I love the sport and all that, it’s important to me to know that I’ve got the best deal for myself. It’s been like that since day one of my career. It’s a business, like anything else. Race cars are my life, and I’d probably drive them for nothing if I had to. But I don’t have to. Colin knows how I feel because that’s the way he is, too. He can read people pretty good. And, by the way, he matched Ferrari’s offer...”

Roebuck then states that Andretti decided against Ferrari, but he also suggests that if the Lotus had failed at Monza it might have tipped the balance the other way. That doesn’t quite add up with the above, where Andretti says he went to see Ferrari after Monza - where he’d won comfortably. But there is no mention whatsoever of any Ferrari test, which I’m sure would be in there if it had happened.