44 replies to this topic

[RTH]

Would appear to be a substantial conversion to a BMW M3.With other conversion models to come in the BMW road car range.

http://www.pistonhea...p?storyId=18951

Back in the 1960s there was the Brabham HB Vauxhall Viva SL 90 conversion with more power and those distinctive side stripes.

http://www.vivaoutla...am/brabham.html

[sterling49]

Richard, a great name, but I am not sure how this sits personally, the Viva had (I guess) input from Black Jack and Ron Tauranac, but is this not just a Brabham by name? BMW make some great cars, but Alpine and Schnitzer (sp) were the tuners of choice, I wonder how Brabham will break into a market that has been fairly well served by these companies, since at least the '60s?

[RTH]

Yes I agree Sterling, we really need to know a whole lot more about the project. It isn't even the authentic Brabham logo badge. Does make you wonder just how much Jack, Ron and the boys know about it ? ..and just who what and where it all is ?

[Tony Matthews]

Hi Richard and Sterling, don't forget the Brabham-modified Triumph Heralds - Coupes? I can remember seeing one being prepared, complete with Coventry Climax FWE engine, at the Brabham work-shop in the early sixties, but I can't remember how they were marketed.

[Ray Bell]

Advertised in magazines, conversions (and probably the odd car) being sold through Jack's garage...

I doubt that they were sold by any other means, but possibly Triumph dealers bought some for resale?

[Peter Darley]

Originally posted by sterling49
...... but Alpine and Schnitzer (sp) were the tuners of choice, I wonder how Brabham will break into a market that has been fairly well served by these companies, since at least the '60s?

Alpine make stereos, ALPINA do BMW tuning.

[sterling49]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Peter Darley


Alpine make stereos, ALPINA do BMW tuning. [/QUOTE

Quite right Peter, I knew that, I was just testing Richard!!! :lol: :smoking:

[Racer.Demon]

I'd already brought this up here:

http://forums.autosp...831#post3396831

But I suppose this is deserving of a thread of its own.

Haven't been able to find out anything about the people behind this...

Anyway, they also plan to bring a 'BT60' based on the M5 (of course because the 5-series is called E60 in BMW speak), but I thought a Brabham BT60 was another car. Not one of the marque's most successful ones, but still...

[Ray Bell]

Answer here or there?

It's obviously nothing to do with Jack's name, rather the name that was ultimately sold on to Bernie... who used BMW engines for some time.

[RTH]

Originally posted by Tony Matthews
Hi Richard and Sterling, don't forget the Brabham-modified Triumph Heralds - Coupes? I can remember seeing one being prepared, complete with Coventry Climax FWE engine, at the Brabham work-shop in the early sixties, but I can't remember how they were marketed.

That is interesting Tony, for some reason that project seems to have passed me by . Anyone got any photos details etc.

I wonder just how many Heralds were sold with Climax engines ?

Not the most obvious candidate for a performance car with that rear suspension !

http://herald-tips-t...-and-tuck-under

[Bjorn Kjer]

Brabham also in 61 & 62 at least , had to do with Rootes cars! (Alpine.....no,no,no, not Alpina , but Sunbeam Alpine ).

[JBE]

Spot on Ray ;)

http://www.essen-mot...565&detailnav=3
(hope that link works)

Funny name, Trick . . .

[Gregor Marshall]

So who are the people behind the Brabham name now then; is it still owned by Middlebrige/Reliant or whatever they ended up being called?

[Maldwyn]

Originally posted by RTH
Yes I agree Sterling, we really need to know a whole lot more about the project. It isn't even the authentic Brabham logo badge.

The badge looks as if it is (somewhat) based on the BT52 nose profile.

[TonyCotton]

Originally posted by Gregor Marshall
So who are the people behind the Brabham name now then; is it still owned by Middlebrige/Reliant or whatever they ended up being called?

According to Companies House, the registered office is Great Hampton Street in Birmingham (home once to Lucas, I think) and the directors are Bernd Paetz and Michael Trick, both of whom appear to be German nationals.

[bradbury west]

[i]Originally posted by RTH
I wonder just how many Heralds were sold with Climax engines ?]

I always understood that they did a better trade with Climax powered Sprite/Midget conversions. Perhaps a much more sensible package.
Roger Lund

[PMac]

Originally posted by TonyCotton


According to Companies House, the registered office is Great Hampton Street in Birmingham (home once to Lucas, I think) and the directors are Bernd Paetz and Michael Trick, both of whom appear to be German nationals.

I guess Herr Paetz is the same man quoted in this recent story:

http://www.pressebox...xid-203478.html

[Racer.Demon]

That would mean that Herr Paetz is now eligible for a double entry in this thread:

http://forums.autosp...&threadid=89012

[hipperson]

My dad's new Autumn Gold Sunbeam Rapier circa 1961 was Brabham-ised with Black Jack personally supervising the conversion
He had a Rootes Group franchise I think in Chessington ?

[RTH]

Sounds as if there ought to be a website somewhere for Brabham converted cars.

[ian senior]

Originally posted by Tony Matthews
Hi Richard and Sterling, don't forget the Brabham-modified Triumph Heralds - Coupes? I can remember seeing one being prepared, complete with Coventry Climax FWE engine, at the Brabham work-shop in the early sixties, but I can't remember how they were marketed.

Weren't there also a few Renault Dauphines with Climax engines? Created by Cooper Cars, or were they another Brabham conversion? Given that the the Dauphine was even more precarious in its handling than the Herald, God knows what that must have been like to drive.

[bradbury west]

Dauphine Climax - I was talking to a man at the Revival who has it, IIRC.
Roger Lund.

[sterling49]

Originally posted by bradbury west
Dauphine Climax - I was talking to a man at the Revival who has it, IIRC.
Roger Lund.

That must be an interesting drive, my cousin had one of the pink coloured cars and frightened himself silly upon spinning it whilst navigating a wet roundabout. I never knew that this engine/car combination even existed!

[bradbury west]

Anyone remember Welbeck Motors and their Dauphine mini-cabs - caused a furore with the black cab boys
RL

[sterling49]

Originally posted by bradbury west
Anyone remember Welbeck Motors and their Dauphine mini-cabs - caused a furore with the black cab boys
RL

Indeed!

[Ray Bell]

They even got a mention here...

I think it was Wheels carried a story about this upstart company in there poaching the customers from the traditional Austin taxis. How long did they last?

[WGD706]

Official statement from the Brabham family
The Brabham family would like to absolutely and categorically state that the range of cars and accessories being publicised under the Brabham name at the Essen Motor Show 2008 and on global websites, has nothing to do with the Brabham family, or its long and respected motor racing heritage, in any way. It is clear to us, as it must be to the whole world, what these people are trying to do. In our opinion, it is a clear case of using our name, our history and our success, without the backing of the Brabham family.
The following weblinks will show you some of the reasons for our concerns:
www.brabhambmw.com
http://en.vermot-ag....mnu=3316&id_kun
www.brabham.eu
The 50th anniversary of Jack Brabham’s first Formula One Championship crown is approaching in 2009. In light of this announcement and the celebrations planned, we would respectfully request that in publishing press material from Veritas-Brabham, BMW Brabham or Brabham Racing, you understand that the Brabham family have no involvement nor endorse the products and services offered by the aforementioned companies and that no relationship should be implied in any story published.
Editors can contact David Brabham, as spokesman for the family, via HAZEL PR below.

Emma Spearing, Hazel PR, Arena Business Centre, 9 Nimrod Way, Ferndown, Dorset BH21 7SH T: (44) 1202 862410 M:07736 341828 E: emma.spearing@hazelpr.com
http://66.223.111.19...mDisclaimer.pdf

[Racer.Demon]

As could have been expected...

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by ian senior


Weren't there also a few Renault Dauphines with Climax engines? Created by Cooper Cars, or were they another Brabham conversion? Given that the the Dauphine was even more precarious in its handling than the Herald, God knows what that must have been like to drive.

Yes, built by Cooper. According to DCN's "Cooper Cars" only one "serious prototype" survived, fitted with a 1220cc Climax. Andrew Ferguson recalls chasing Colin Chapman's Zephyr in it on the way to Oulton Park, spurred on by Charles Cooper in the passenger seat ....

[Roger Clark]

This was another thread about Brabham road cars.

http://forums.autosp...&threadid=31085

[RTH]

Originally posted by bradbury west
Anyone remember Welbeck Motors and their Dauphine mini-cabs - caused a furore with the black cab boys
RL

[Racer.Demon]

Some more news. The Germans who have hijacked the Brabham and Veritas names seem undaunted by the Brabham family's statement and are intent to go even one further by entering into the world of motorsport:

http://www.endurance...id=6799&thold=0

Apparently they are planning to enter their Veritas RS3 roadster in the VLN and the Nürburgring 24 hours and rename it 'Veritas-Brabham'.

Oh dear. How low can you go?

[D-Type]

Originally posted by bradbury west
Anyone remember Welbeck Motors and their Dauphine mini-cabs - caused a furore with the black cab boys
RL

I have a half memory that there was a Kenya connection. The distributors, Archers Motors, had a lot of unsold Dauphines in stock so they setup a minicab-type taxi company in Nairobi, using the 'phone for a cab' principle. These were a lot more civilised than the normal Nairobi owner/driver in anything with four wheels and a yellow stripe all round. I've googled the name and apparently they're still in business.

The business was initially successful so someone transferred the idea to London and the minicab as we know it was born, ie a 'taxi' that wasn't allowed to pick up fares from the kerb but only via a 'phone call, making it a hire car and not subject to the taxi regulations.

But this has no relevance to anything to do with Brabham.

[fines]

Originally posted by Racer.Demon
Some more news. The Germans who have hijacked the Brabham and Veritas names seem undaunted by the Brabham family's statement and are intent to go even one further by entering into the world of motorsport:

http://www.endurance...id=6799&thold=0

Apparently they are planning to enter their Veritas RS3 roadster in the VLN and the Nürburgring 24 hours and rename it 'Veritas-Brabham'.

Oh dear. How low can you go?

So what's that? Can I now bend some tubes into place, weld'em up and put it on wheels and call it a 'Chevrolet-Ferrari'?

[Racer.Demon]

If you've just bought the rights to both names - which in the first case shouldn't be all too expensive in the very near future... - then apparently you can go right ahead.

I know...

[Doug Nye]

David Brabham is leading the family's energetic fight against what they regard as the high-jacking of their name, stature and reputation. Blackie himself was as upset about it last week in Adelaide as I have ever seen him upset at anything. After the Brabham F1 team collapsed, he tells me he bought the name rights back from BCE, but they did not - it appears - extend formally to the entire EU. Herr Trick and his chums certainly face some ear-ache now, however, having assumed the 'Brabham' name, publicised Jack's achievements in their project promotion AND having adopted to themselves the 'BT' model classification system. BMW are also in bad odour for their apparent association with the project, but how much they are involved beyond their power units having been adopted I don't know...

DCN

[r.atlos]

In chronological order:

http://uk.eurosport....-situation.html

http://www.autoblog....m-not-so-happy/

http://carscoop.blog...essen-jack.html

[r.atlos]

Originally posted by Racer.Demon
If you've just bought the rights to both names ...

This is not about buying, it's about claiming. What has happened here is that you can claim the right for a certain brand locally in one EU member state (it will cost you just € 99) and you can then extend it to the EU or even internationally (from € 219 onwards).

By the way, guess who own the right for "Frazer Nash" ...

[ozzy.g]

Mmh... Obviously I am with Sir Jack! One of the best drivers ever...
But... What if Mr Trick got the rights legally?
What does he say about this incredible story?

[Racer.Demon]

Originally posted by r.atlos
This is not about buying, it's about claiming. What has happened here is that you can claim the right for a certain brand locally in one EU member state (it will cost you just € 99) and you can then extend it to the EU or even internationally (from € 219 onwards).

By the way, guess who own the right for "Frazer Nash" ...

That one as well? Well, if it's for that kind of money I wouldn't be surprised if the German duo now owns about every defunct car brand name you can think of.

Anyway, didn't know (and am astonished) that it works that way - thanks for clarifying.

[Vitesse2]

Some more news. The Germans who have hijacked the Brabham and Veritas names seem undaunted by the Brabham family's statement and are intent to go even one further by entering into the world of motorsport:

http://www.endurance...?...799&thold=0

Apparently they are planning to enter their Veritas RS3 roadster in the VLN and the Nürburgring 24 hours and rename it 'Veritas-Brabham'.

Oh dear. How low can you go?

This low, apparently ....

[taran]

It does seem as if the Brabham name (as a racing organization) was legally acquired at which point the new German owner is free to use it in any way he likes unless the original deal had any stipulations. If Black Jack Brabham doesn't like that, he shouldn't have sold off the name and his team. Motor Racing Developments went through Ron Tauranac, Bernie Ecclestone, Alfa Romeo, Joachim Luhti and then Middlebridge and after that the name was probably sold off to square some debts. If Brabham didn't want his name and legacy linked to the team despite having no imput about the team, he should not have let Tauranac continue under his name. It all sounds like sour grapes to me.

[uechtel]

I don´t know whether the new Brabham F1 effort are the same people as behind the Veritas-Brabham company. This may turn things even more complicated...

[RStock]

I don´t know whether the new Brabham F1 effort are the same people as behind the Veritas-Brabham company. This may turn things even more complicated...

Franz Hilmer is behind the name of current F1 effort . He also owns Formtech GmbH . He's the fellow that bought up Super Aguri's assets .

[Pedro 917]

I saw a Brabham Racing stand at the Essen Motor Show in December 2008 and took some pictures.
I asked for a brochure but they didn't have one (ran out of them so they said).
You can find more on the internet : here