24 replies to this topic

[Jim Thurman]

http://www.indianapo...they_Dies_At_81

[Richard Jenkins]

Sad, but not a surprise. Rest in Peace.

A shame too - after a compartively decent start to 2009, we're losing a few big names in a row here.

[B Squared]

RIP Jim - What really caught my attention is that only 17) drivers are still with us that drove a front engined car at the Speedway.

Brian

[ensign14]

Other than the pace car driver and the NASCAR bods, of course.

81 is an immense age, when you consider the mortality rate for 50s Champcar drivers.

[B Squared]

"Other than the pace car driver and the NASCAR bods, of course." ensign14

I obviously thought that I was dealing with an audience that is astute enough to differentiate between an old (81 years) Speedway roadster driver and the modern NASCAR participation at the Speedway. I'm sorry if I was mistaken.

Brian

[Lotus23]

So who are those 17?

ottomh I can think of AJ and perhaps a half-dozen others...

[pacificquay]

B Squared - ensign14 is among the most "astute" posters on this forum.

His witty sarcasm appears to have sailed over your head or you have just chosen to be a .

[B Squared]

I can contribute these: 1) A.J.Foyt 2) Parnelli Jones 3) Johnny Rutherford 4) Bobby Unser 5) Lloyd Ruby 6) Jim Rathman 7) Jim McElreath 8) Paul Goldsmith 9) Bob Harkey 10) Dan Gurney {Rookie Test only}

Will need more time for the rest, help appreciated.

Brian

[ensign14]

Danny Kladis is 92 years young in 6 days' time, the oldest 500 starter.

[B Squared]

B Squared - ensign14 is among the most "astute" posters on this forum.

His witty sarcasm appears to have sailed over your head or you have just chosen to be a .. pacificquay

So ensign14 is full of witty sarcasm, yet I'm a ... (whatever) for making a blanket comment on what I feel is a extremely knowledgeable group of participants. I wasn't insulting anyone, I thought we had a group that didn't need to have every detail spelled out for them at all times. Things like this make me wonder why I bother to contribute what little I can. It seems as if certain individuals simply salivate over every post waiting for the smallest of error or omission so they can take the original poster to task. If I'm deemed to be an ... by my peers, I'll cease and desist with my posts. My humble apologies.

Brian

[fines]

Please, Brian, don't be offended. Some days we can take it, some days we don't - it's always a bit difficult when communication is confined to the keyboard! I know, I have been burned before...

===========

RIP, Gentleman Jim! He was not only an Indy 500 starter, but also a Sprint Car great - his "speciality" was one-lap qualifying on the halfmiles, dirt or pavement. I will try to recap some of his deeds later on.

[B Squared]

With Danny Kladis, the list is at 11). I can add, if sources are correct: 12) Art Malone 13) Bob Christie 14) Chuck Hulse 15) Eddie Russo 16) Chuck Weyant.

Michael, thank you for your comments. I'll look forward to your insight on Jim McWithey, as time allows.

Brian

[fines]

James Robert McWithey, known to all and sundry as "Gentleman Jim", was the local hero of Anderson, Indiana, the "little" neighbour of Indianapolis. Today, Anderson is well established as the home of one of racing's remarkable maverick events, but not so back in the early fifties, when young Jim was getting started in racing. Back then, the "Little 500" was just a local Track Roadster race, and the people of Anderson didn't have much to cheer on in terms of big time racing since the days of the great Bob Carey. Now, there were capable and talented men like Potsy Goacher, Curly Boyd and Wayne Alspaugh, or Dick Frazier, Bob King and Tom Cherry of nearby Muncie, who all at one time or another had a foot or two in the door, but none of them ever really "made it" the way Gentleman Jim did!

Today, only his Indy 500 record is remembered by the great unwashed, and that wasn't much to write home about: in six tries, he qualified only twice, and was the slowest man in the field both times - he was actually the sixth man to "achieve" this sort of a "double", and the company he's in isn't all bad at that, for Howdy Wilcox and Johnny Thomson share this distinction, for instance. But McWithey went one better, he also finished last (16th) on one occasion, and the other time he retired. Still, he was a member of the "Champion 100-Mile-An-Hour Club" at a time when this honour really meant something!

Even fewer today remember his Champ Car record, like the official Indy 500 website does, but yes, 18 starts in five years isn't too hot either, especially when weighed against more than forty appearances in qualifying. More often than not he qualified too slow, or crashed in practice or during time trials, or had his car break down before he even got the starter's flag. He wasted many years with second or third class equipment, but when he finally got a good ride worthy of his talent, like in 1959 when he followed in Rodger Ward's and Len Sutton's footsteps as the driver of Herb Porter's Wolcott team, the results did come - only it was too late, as the team's patron had died the year before and it was only going through the motions, winding down business! At least Gentleman Jim made sure the team went out in style, with his third fourth place finish of the year, and the sixth best dirt track record for the season, immediately ahead of A. J. Foyt!

As a result of this, he got another top ride for the start of the 1960 season, with John Wills's Hoover Motor Express team, and began the year with his best ever result at that level by overtaking Foyt in the closing stages for a fine third place finish, behind Ward and Tony Bettenhausen. He was now well and truely a "hot dog", and when the infamous Champ Car Racing TV pilot was filmed at Langhorne in April, McWithey was amongst the six drivers invited to take part, along with Foyt, Ward, Bettenhausen, Eddie Sachs and Don Branson - the elite! Sadly, it didn't last, and within two more months he had lost his ride, and was scrounging again for opportunities along pit lane. Only 32 years old, yet already washed up, it seemed.

710 championship points, and roughly over $20,000 won in prize money - the figures do not sound too impressive, but it's easy to forget how much it took to get that far at all! We seem to remember the failures more often than we do success, especially in the face of difficulty, and many a past Grand Prix driver is today ridiculed for his lack of World Championship points, when some of his contemporaries are recalled with awe because of their (relative) success in Sports or Touring Cars. Likewise, Tom Cherry is well remembered because of his wins and championships at the very modest levels of MRA, CSRA, NASCAR and AARC competition, while Potsy Goacher is praised for his many wins in the Midgets, yet both competed in the same market with McWithey and didn't qualify for a single Champ Car start during their whole respective careers, much less for the Indy 500, even if slowest, twice in a row.

Time to look at the success story of James Robert McWithey: 5th in his rookie year (1951) at the Little 500, Jim spent his formative years with the local clubs, progressing step by step: from Central Indiana (MRA 1951-53, 4th in '52 final points) over Northern Indiana (NIRA in 1952), the Northern Midwest (CSRA 1953-55, 3rd in '54) and the entire Heartlands (IMCA 1953-56, 3rd in '55), finally to the National scene, the AAA and later USAC. Gentleman Jim debuted, somewhat ironically, at the last ever AAA Sprint Car race, October 16 in 1955, at Williams Grove in Pennsylvania, and he did it in style: qualifying fastest in a top notch field for the prestigious Ted Horn - Bill Schindler Memorial Race! He finished second to Eddie Sachs in the first heat, then retired with engine failure from the main event, having scored 8 points in the heat for 45th place in the Eastern Circuit Championship - a modest start!

As mentioned before, qualifying was something of a speciality for him, and early in 1956 he took his second fast time, now under USAC sanction, and this time at a paved track, at Miami in Florida. Dirt or pavement, McWithey would always be a threat throughout his Sprint Car career, and almost always "a cinch" for pole position! Famously, he once took four fast times in succession in 1959, and finished the races three times second and once fifth! The fifth race, he was beaten to the pole by Ed Elisian (in his last ever Sprint Car race ), but Gentleman Jim went on to win the main event. Sadly, it would be his last win, and he would also never again qualify on pole, but at least he had had his time. That year, he finshed 4th in Eastern points, and 6th in the Midwest, two of seven top ten points finshes in five years.

His record in roughly 50 USAC Sprint Car races was pretty impressive, even with only two wins, but he always seemed to attract good equipment here. Having already driven Offenhausers in CSRA and IMCA competition (for Doc Bowles and Dizz Wilson), he was starting his AAA career right away with Offy power (Charley Engle), then continued to do so in USAC (Lyle Hyneman and the Leitenbergers) - it was in the old Leitenberger/Offy, the former Jimmy Bryan car, that McWithey took his first top feature finish in 1956 (2nd at New Bremen, behind Sachs again). It earned him a ride in the Erickson/Offy the following year, but that combination didn't gel, and both team and driver were better off next year. He did, however, win his spurs on the paved high banks of the Midwest in that car, including a prestigious "world" track record at Salem in Indiana that stood for almost three years.

1958 would be his breakthrough year, but it didn't start off very auspiciously with a second-lap spin out at Williams Grove in April - still, before that he had recorded yet another pole position in an old nail of a car, the Bud Sherk/Offy. Soon, however, he would find himself in a proper top ride, Pat O'Connor's championship winning Bob Estes/Offy, and with it he took four more pole positions during the rest of the year, and finished in the top ten in both sectional championships. The team also afforded him an opportunity to "visit old friends" during a summer lull in USAC competition, when he arrived at the traditional IMCA races at Saint Paul's Minnesota State Fair in August, along with Elmer George and Eddie Sachs - it would be a memorable eight days in summer!

Traditionally, IMCA had no limits on engine capacity, virtually a Formual Libre or "run what ya brung" series. In those days, its star drivers usually ran huge stock block or aircraft engines, or full racing engines like the Offenhauser 270 (4.4 litre). USAC still clung to the 220 CID limit (3.6 litre) for the Offies, but due to the competitiveness of its teams, mechanics and drivers, there was really not much to chose between the two factions. George and Sachs, the reigning Champion and current point leader in USAC's Midwestern Circuit, respectively, had good reason to be confident when pitted against IMCA's best, while McWithey had been a winner at the State Fair in both 1953 and '54, during his time with the "outlaws", so he kinda knew the way 'round the famous dirt halfmile. He also had an ace up his sleeve.

While Elmer and Eddie expected to go to Saint Paul directly from a Champ Car race at Milwaukee with their Sprint Car teams (HOW and Cheesman) already waiting there for them, the crafty McWithey/Estes combo had other plans: unlike HOW and Cheesman, the team had a choice of cars to run in Wisconsin, and since the Milwaukee Mile had been paved a few years earlier, the team decided to go there with their Indy Car roadster, which left the dirt Champ Car idle for the weekend, unless...

When the cars unloaded in Minnesota that weekend, IMCA team personnel and close to 20,000 spectators stared at the yellow and red #26 "Bob Estes Special"... Champ Car! One of the most consistent money winners on the USAC National Championship circuit, and fresh from a $2,000 third place finish at the Illinois State Fair the previous Saturday! It didn't hurt either that the car had a 252 CID (4.1 litre) Offy, and neither did the fact that it was the class of the field despite its size. McWithey won four of the five main events during the week, including the big 25-mile finale on the second Sunday, worth $1,000 alone, and almost a full minute under/3 mph over the track record. George and Sachs as well as the regular IMCA stars Pete Folse, Jack Rounds etc. were simply left standing and wondering...

While this may well have been his biggest 'artistic' success, as a driver he really topped it the next year, when apart from his already mentioned Champ Car high with the Wolcott, he also teamed up with Bill Cheesman, the man behind Eddie Sachs's Championship year in the Sprints. McWithey took both of his Sprint Car wins in the Cheesman, as well as the four poles in a row, and was 5th in overall points behind Branson, Foyt, Hinnershitz and Sachs. But sadly, it wouldn't last.

[Jim Thurman]

Drop Gurney (as the list only applied to drivers starting the '500') and add...

Don Edmunds
Gordon Johncock

Gurney and a few others might make a list of those who practiced, but did not race, front engined cars at IMS...very few, sadly, I might add

And, Michael, thanks for the post on Jim McWithey's career Looking forward to the story that needs retold.

[B Squared]

Jim - Thanks for the help on the 17) and the info regarding Dan Gurney's exclusion. I don't know how I missed Gordon Johncock.

Brian

[Buford]

Mel Kenyon was burned in a roadster - did he run Indy in one? Looks like we can add Eddie Russo.

[Lemnpiper]

Speaking of the Champion 100 MPH Club ,
How many of those guys are left? Plus did we ever get a definitive answer to what year was the last that they could mmake that club?


thanks
Paul

[Buford]

"This feat earned him membership in the very prestigious Champion 100-Mile-An-Hour Club, which was discontinued in 1970."

[Lemnpiper]

Thanks Buford ,


So hopefully this is the complete list of living members of the Champion Spark Plug 100 MPH Club
abd the year they qualified.


1952 Jim Rathmann

1959 Paul Goldsmith
A J Foyt

1960 Lloyd Ruby
Bob Christie

1961 Jack Brabham

1962 Jim McElreath
Parnelli Jones

1963 Dan Gurney
Chuck Hulse

1965 Mario Andretti
Gordon Johncock

1968 Bobby Unser
Mel Kenyon

1970 Al Unser (sr)
Donnie Allison


rather nice group of drivers there

Paul

[B Squared]

"Looks like we can add Eddie Russo." Buford

I've got him as #15) in post 12). Mel Kenyon didn't race a roadster at the Speedway, I don't know about practice. I know Mario raced a roadster elsewhere, but I don't know if he ever did laps in one at IMS.

As far as the Champion Spark Plug 100 MPH club, I remember talking to Peter DePaolo and he was regretful that he had to give up his Duesenberg for relief in his 1925 win to have his blistered hands taped up. The victory, if solo, at an average speed of 101.13 MPH would have made him the very first member of this respected club.

Brian

[Buford]

Yes sorry missed it. I saw Mario's debut at Milwaukee in the Dean Van Lines roadster. I had read about him in NSSN and Illustrated Speedway News and so knew who he was, but when it was announced over the loudspeaker, "Now on the track in the Dean Van Lines Special... Mario Andretti", I swear it sounded like an Owls nest as everybody in the crowd turned to their neighbor and said "Who?" Not sure if he lapped in the Roadster at Indy but I know he definitely didn't take his rookie test in it.

[fines]

Originally posted by B Squared
As far as the Champion Spark Plug 100 MPH club, I remember talking to Peter DePaolo and he was regretful that he had to give up his Duesenberg for relief in his 1925 win to have his blistered hands taped up. The victory, if solo, at an average speed of 101.13 MPH would have made him the very first member of this respected club.

Brian

Yeah, but would he have won without relief? Very unlikely, methinks...

[B Squared]

You may be right on that account Michael, but still fine memories from a grand old gentleman driver, whose accomplishments behind the wheel are of record. As I stated, he HAD to give up his car for relief. He was well aware of what he was telling me. Even the most successful people in life, still have dreams and regrets. Sorry if you think I'm trying to make an effort to distort history. Not my intention or Mr. DePaolo's. Other than Mrs. DePaolo and his family, I don't think there was anything that meant more to him than his Indianapolis 500 victory. Can you imagine being able to have that tale to tell as you approach the final grid?
I feel I was more than fortunate to have met and then to be befriended by the man.

Brian

[Richard Jenkins]

1. Danny Kladis
2. Jim Rathmann
3. Chuck Weyant
4. Eddie Russo
5. Bob Christie
6. Don Edmunds
7. A.J. Foyt
8. Paul Goldsmith
9. Lloyd Ruby
10. Parnelli Jones
11. Jim McElreath
12. Chuck Hulse
13. Johnny Rutherford
14. Bobby Unser
15. Art Malone
16. Bob Harkey
17. Gordon Johncock

I know all have been named below, but I thought this list - from Trackforum - would be a handy "cut out & keep" type guide.

Unfortunately 4 of the above are not in the best of health either...

[B Squared]

Richie - Thanks for the concise list. I'm amazed that 6) of the 17) are Indy 500 race winners.

Brian