1961 Constructor points
#1
Posted 20 March 2009 - 13:00
I'm doing a spot of research for a project I'm working on (an F1 database).
Whilst checking the points for 1961 I noticed that a lot of sites have different values for the constructors with regards to actual points scored and adjusted points scored, taking into account the best 5 results rule.
Taking Ferrari as an example:
Wikipedia has 52 adjusted to 45
F1.com has 45
Other sites have 52 adjusted to 40
I checked a few books and it seems that for 1961 only, driver points were 9, 6, 4, 3, 2 & 1 and constructor points were 8, 6, 4, 3, 2 & 1.
That being the case it is in fact 52/40 for Ferrari and not 52/45 as listed on Wikiepedia and F1.com.
Having been around the houses on this one, I figured I'd post here to get the definitive answer.
I'm pretty sure it's correct that in 1961 only there was a difference in the points awarded to the 1st place driver and constructor but just want to confirm it.
Thanks.
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#2
Posted 20 March 2009 - 13:29
You can work out the individual finishes to verify. From everything I've read, the points for a win was increased that year from 8 to 9, but for drivers only. Not sure why Constructors points weren't increased.
Best 5 of 8 scores counted, but with Constructors, only the best finish received points. Points shown as (6) are points dropped, and "points" shown as [3] are "points" never awarded to begin with (I wasn't quite sure how to display this, but this seemed to make sense to me) :
(This is just a partial screen print of what the program produces)
#3
Posted 20 March 2009 - 13:34
Your data ties up with mine and seems to agree with all the books I've checked.
It was just the initial mistakes in F1.com and Wikipedia which threw me, and also because I never realised there was ever a season with different maximum points for drivers and constructors.
Regards.
P.S. That looks like a nice program, I'm guessing it took you a while - we've been on ours for 5 months...
#4
Posted 20 March 2009 - 13:40
Originally posted by Brogan
Thanks Steve.
Your data ties up with mine and seems to agree with all the books I've checked.
It was just the initial mistakes in F1.com and Wikipedia which threw me, and also because I never realised there was ever a season with different maximum points for drivers and constructors.
Regards.
P.S. That looks like a nice program, I'm guessing it took you a while - we've been on ours for 5 months...
Thanks. That's a Visual Basic 6 / Access 97 system I wrote about 6 years ago. I worked on it for about 2 years. Altogether, there's about 400,000 lines of VB code in it. One of these days, I'll develop this whole thing using PHP and MySQL... One of these days...
#5
Posted 20 March 2009 - 13:42
Funny you should say thatOriginally posted by stevewf1
One of these days, I'll develop this whole thing using PHP and MySQL... One of these days...
We hope to be launching ours this Monday - still got a few exceptions and bugs to resolve but it's 95% there.
Ours is a different structure and format though so it's only around 70,000 lines at the moment...
#6
Posted 20 March 2009 - 14:07
Personally I would not trust anything on Wikipedia absolutely nor anything on half the "Formula 1" websites around.
A few years ago we kicked the whole issue of points around extensively, admittedly mainly considering when 1 point for sixth place was and wasn't awarded, and this 8 point/9 point discrepancy was never mentioned. I'm posting during my lunch break and don't have the time to use "Search BB" to find the relevant threads.
#7
Posted 20 March 2009 - 14:14
#8
Posted 20 March 2009 - 14:18
I agree with your point on Wiki, F1 and most of the F1 related sites.Originally posted by D-Type
Are you both sure of your facts? What are your sources?
Personally I would not trust anything on Wikipedia absolutely nor anything on half the "Formula 1" websites around.
We initially went for 9 points for 1st placed constructor as we didn't believe there were different points systems in place.
However, after confirming it in FORIX, the Grand Prix Data Book, the International Motor Racing Guide and the Formula One Encyclopaedia, we decided that the 8/9 point difference is real and have subsequently amended the scoring.
Of course if those sources are proven to be wrong then we'll change it back.
Hence the reason for the thread
If anything it makes for a good quiz question ;)
#9
Posted 20 March 2009 - 14:20
#10
Posted 20 March 2009 - 22:07
Originally posted by D-Type
Are you both sure of your facts? What are your sources?
Personally I would not trust anything on Wikipedia absolutely nor anything on half the "Formula 1" websites around.
A few years ago we kicked the whole issue of points around extensively, admittedly mainly considering when 1 point for sixth place was and wasn't awarded, and this 8 point/9 point discrepancy was never mentioned. I'm posting during my lunch break and don't have the time to use "Search BB" to find the relevant threads.
I'm not claiming these are the absolute correct results, but it's my best shot...
My table is "generated" from individual race results on the "Race" table in my database, so that screen print isn't "hard-coded" as such. It's assembled and displayed using queries, work files and program code.
I do store points scored and points dropped and "points" not scored for each race however. I've developed this database using many different sources of individual race results. Books and some web sites. And Wikipedia is not one of them.
So, if there is an error in the table, there is an error in my recorded individual race results somewhere. After all, putting together something like this is exacting and tedious and errors do creep in...
#11
Posted 20 March 2009 - 22:19
I noticed differences in minor placings at other races as well. A couple of sources may say a driver finished 14th in a particular race while a couple more might list 15th...
Overall, especially back in the "old days", I'm not sure anyone has all the absolute correct answers.
Soooo....
#12
Posted 20 March 2009 - 22:34
You spend hours checking multiple sources for 1 result and in the end just make your best guess
Still, we do it because we love it :
P.S. I've got Fangio for fastest lap at Reims-Gueux in '53 ;)
P.P.S Your database is very impressive - I can only imagine how much work was involved in putting that together. Kudos.
#13
Posted 20 March 2009 - 22:46
Originally posted by Brogan
It sounds like we've had similar experiences Steve
You spend hours checking multiple sources for 1 results and in the end just make your best guess
Still, we do it because we love it :
P.S. I've got Fangio for fastest lap at Reims-Gueux in '53 ;)
I have Fangio too. What I did was list all the sources for that race I could find and since more listed just Fangio than Fangio/Ascari, I went with the majority. Didn't know what else to do. :
This had been a life-time hobby for me, which is interesting because I grew up and still live in Indianapolis. Not sure exactly how I became interested in F1, but it happened sometime in the late 60s.
I've long realized that this hobby ("addiction"?) is like what a model railroad must be like. It will never be quite "done".
#14
Posted 20 March 2009 - 23:23
Too trueOriginally posted by stevewf1
I've long realized that this hobby ("addiction"?) is like what a model railroad must be like. It will never be quite "done".