683 replies to this topic

[Villes Gilleneuve]

I didn't hear the KERS excuse, looked like a straightforward case of braking a bit late and locking the rears. Have to admit the irony though, if it was an accidental button push, seems the ghosts of Brazil 07 live on.

KERS was mentioned in this incident, but not due to an accidental button push. The comment was that KERS cars can be very unstable on downhill bumpy sections due to the trail braking induced by the KERS chargers. Similar thing happened to Massa, but he got off easy.

[Rob]

Kovalainen just reflects the true picture of the car. Hamilton brings an extra, say, six tenths

[The Ragged Edge]

Kovalainen just reflects the true picture of the car. Hamilton brings an extra, say, six tenths

I dont know about 6 tenths, but I would say a true reflection is roughly what Heikki brings to it. Heikki dispatched Fisichella yet he is getting mauled by Hamilton. I personally don't think Heikki is that bad. But against Lewis he is made to look ordinary.

[wewantourdarbyback]

Kovalainen just reflects the true picture of the car. Hamilton brings an extra, say, six tenths

[Mauseri]

KERS was mentioned in this incident, but not due to an accidental button push. The comment was that KERS cars can be very unstable on downhill bumpy sections due to the trail braking induced by the KERS chargers. Similar thing happened to Massa, but he got off easy.

Drivers have lost the rear from bumbs for ages. A bit too much brake balance at rear, or a small mistake in the braking. Yes, KERS, enginebrake, differential, brakebalance, it's all the same, there was no failure in the car (before impact to wall). These cars are hard to drive, a driver may lose control when pushing limits.

[RodrigoL]

Bump. You have to wonder what Heikki might have achieved with the complete aero upgrade this weekend.

McLaren may have a right to favor Hamilton as he is a WDC, but his form this year doesn't indicate that. IMO.

[wewantourdarbyback]

McLaren may have a right to favor Hamilton as he is a WDC, but his form this year doesn't indicate that. IMO.

Heikki plummeted after the first stint and just hung on to a point in the end. Lewis was in the lead heading for the first corner when Webber moved across on him a bit into his rear tyre ruining any chances he had.

Not sure on where your argument comes from.

[RodrigoL]

Heikki plummeted after the first stint and just hung on to a point in the end. Lewis was in the lead heading for the first corner when Webber moved across on him a bit into his rear tyre ruining any chances he had.

Not sure on where your argument comes from.

Heikki pitted a lot earlier than expected for some reason, which meant his other stints were longer. No doubt this affected tyre performance.

As for Hamilton's form this year...how many of his performances were worthy of a champion? A few races come to mind but he threw away possible podium places in Monaco and now here, where the car was at its best.

If McLaren have a single set of parts again, why should it go to him and not Heikki?

[Cenotaph]

Heikki really did a great job this weekend. Great position at qualifying, great start, losing positions throughout the race was pretty much inevitable though. At least he scored a point in that poor excuse of a McLaren.

[Monad]

Heikki pitted a lot earlier than expected for some reason, which meant his other stints were longer. No doubt this affected tyre performance.

As for Hamilton's form this year...how many of his performances were worthy of a champion? A few races come to mind but he threw away possible podium places in Monaco and now here, where the car was at its best.

If McLaren have a single set of parts again, why should it go to him and not Heikki?

Let's say the facts as they are. What happened to Monaco was his mistake but Kova did even worse mistake in the race and here was not Hamilton's fault. If his rear tyre was ok he could have come even in front after the first corner. But i don't think Heikki did bad at this race. His car was obviously difficult to drive.

Edited by Monad, 12 July 2009 - 15:22.

[mursuka80]

Heikki pitted a lot earlier than expected for some reason, which meant his other stints were longer. No doubt this affected tyre performance.

As for Hamilton's form this year...how many of his performances were worthy of a champion? A few races come to mind but he threw away possible podium places in Monaco and now here, where the car was at its best.

If McLaren have a single set of parts again, why should it go to him and not Heikki?

Its Team Lewis.you surely have noticed that if you visit the MP4-24 thread

Edited by mursuka80, 12 July 2009 - 15:22.

[mkay]

If McLaren have a single set of parts again, why should it go to him and not Heikki?

Because, Lewis is the current reigning WDC.

Because, Kovalainen is the main reason they lost WCC last year.

Because, Lewis can get MOST OUT OF THE CAR than Heikki.

There you go, mate.

EDIT: Ah, and he did not threw away a podium today. Webber did for him. Kthxbye.

Edited by mkay, 12 July 2009 - 15:52.

[Orin]

Bump. You have to wonder what Heikki might have achieved with the complete aero upgrade this weekend.

McLaren may have a right to favor Hamilton as he is a WDC, but his form this year doesn't indicate that. IMO.

This weekend proved he can't string together laps. A superb qualifying effort, the focus of the entire team during the race, and yet he went steadily backwards. He finished 8th, half a minute behind Alonso in 7th, on a day when most of the runners were held up behind either himself or Massa. How far back would he have been if most of the field hadn't spent half the race doing the conga? Sorry, but he's not deserving of a top seat.

[Yellowmc]

Well, blame Mclaren for that.

He may not be fast but he isn't going to complain when a team with vast amounts of resources favours one of their drivers blindly.

Who would replace him and not complain? I can only think of Sutil.

[Orin]

Well, blame Mclaren for that.

He may not be fast but he isn't going to complain when a team with vast amounts of resources favours one of their drivers blindly.

Who would replace him and not complain? I can only think of Sutil.

He's not in the same league as Hamilton. A first rate driver should be able to stake his claim for equal treatment - Button, Webber, Trulli, Barrichello, ... I suspect even Sutil, would have shown something by now. I don't expect him to beat Hamilton regularly, but he's not even getting close to him. This weekend they only had enough parts for one car, both drivers tested with them, but Hamilton got first choice. Would you do any different?

[RodrigoL]

Because, Lewis is the current reigning WDC. - As I said, that 'reason' is starting to lose credibility.

Because, Kovalainen is the main reason they lost WCC last year. - No, they lost the WCC because McLaren failed to provide a reliable car to both drivers.

Because, Lewis can get MOST OUT OF THE CAR than Heikki. - Given that Heikki is only 4 points behind him in the standings (despite having reliability problems again), I'd say you were talking out of your ass.

EDIT: Ah, and he did not threw away a podium today. Webber did for him. Kthxbye. - Lewis did brilliantly to be anywhere near Webber at the start, but he was too aggressive going into the corner IMO.

[BuzzingHornet]

Lewis is taking risks that he wouldn't normally take, when they come off he will look like a hero, but today they didn't and it ruined the race for his team. Maybe they need to work out what their priorities are, solid points or going for glory vut risking their whole race?

[potmotr]

Begining of the end for Kovalainen at McLaren?



Kovalainen told to raise his game

By Jonathan Noble Wednesday, August 19th 2009, 11:30 GMT

Heikki Kovalainen has been told that he needs to raise his game over the remainder of the season if he is to have any chance of keeping hold of his seat at McLaren in 2010.

AUTOSPORT understands that Kovalainen's option for next year with McLaren has now lapsed, although the team has not ruled out retaining the Finn. Team principal Martin Whitmarsh has made it clear however that Kovalainen needs to deliver more in the next few races than he has shown so far this season - and the Finn was informed of the situation during a factory visit on Wednesday.

"Heikki is doing, as a team player, a fantastic job in this team," Whitmarsh said in a Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 'Phone-In' media call. "On his own evaluation he has not raced as well as he would have liked and we would have liked him to this year.

"I was frankly just talking to him on the subject a few minutes before this call. He is working hard...

"A lot of us want to see Heikki get some good results this year, and that will ensure that he remains with us. That is certainly our wish. His goal going into Valencia this weekend is to win - and he is capable of winning the race this weekend.

"He has been a good qualifier, he has done some good qualifying times, and he is capable of qualifying well and winning this race. So that is what he is going to focus on, and I've just had that conversation with him. Then on Sunday evening he will start thinking about Spa, and that is what we want him to focus on - not all the speculation."

In a boost to Kovalainen's situation, McLaren is adamant it has not begun discussions with any other driver yet about a seat in 2010, despite fresh rumours linking Nico Rosberg with the outfit now that the German's previous likely destination BMW Sauber is out of F1.

"Speculation is normal," said Whitmarsh. "We are not commenting on it, but I can confirm that contrary to some of the speculation we are not in discussions with any other drivers outside this team at the moment."

And, denying any talk that McLaren was under pressure to take a German driver to appease engine partner Mercedes-Benz, Whitmarsh said: "In terms of nationality, obviously some nationalities from a marketing perspective are more convenient, but McLaren continues to have the strategy and policy that we will get the two best drivers in our cars every season, and that is what we will continue to do."

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/77771

[Brawn BGP 001]

Begining of the end for Kovalainen at McLaren?



Kovalainen told to raise his game

By Jonathan Noble Wednesday, August 19th 2009, 11:30 GMT

Heikki Kovalainen has been told that he needs to raise his game over the remainder of the season if he is to have any chance of keeping hold of his seat at McLaren in 2010.

AUTOSPORT understands that Kovalainen's option for next year with McLaren has now lapsed, although the team has not ruled out retaining the Finn. Team principal Martin Whitmarsh has made it clear however that Kovalainen needs to deliver more in the next few races than he has shown so far this season - and the Finn was informed of the situation during a factory visit on Wednesday.

"Heikki is doing, as a team player, a fantastic job in this team," Whitmarsh said in a Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 'Phone-In' media call. "On his own evaluation he has not raced as well as he would have liked and we would have liked him to this year.

"I was frankly just talking to him on the subject a few minutes before this call. He is working hard...

"A lot of us want to see Heikki get some good results this year, and that will ensure that he remains with us. That is certainly our wish. His goal going into Valencia this weekend is to win - and he is capable of winning the race this weekend.

"He has been a good qualifier, he has done some good qualifying times, and he is capable of qualifying well and winning this race. So that is what he is going to focus on, and I've just had that conversation with him. Then on Sunday evening he will start thinking about Spa, and that is what we want him to focus on - not all the speculation."

In a boost to Kovalainen's situation, McLaren is adamant it has not begun discussions with any other driver yet about a seat in 2010, despite fresh rumours linking Nico Rosberg with the outfit now that the German's previous likely destination BMW Sauber is out of F1.

"Speculation is normal," said Whitmarsh. "We are not commenting on it, but I can confirm that contrary to some of the speculation we are not in discussions with any other drivers outside this team at the moment."

And, denying any talk that McLaren was under pressure to take a German driver to appease engine partner Mercedes-Benz, Whitmarsh said: "In terms of nationality, obviously some nationalities from a marketing perspective are more convenient, but McLaren continues to have the strategy and policy that we will get the two best drivers in our cars every season, and that is what we will continue to do."

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/77771

Like I said in the silly season thread, I think this means he won't be at Mac next year.

[kismet]

Yep, the option deadline was a couple of weeks ago and Heikki said he expected the situation to be resolved very quickly which was funny because about five minutes later either Haug or Whitmarsh declared there'd be no driver decisions anytime soon.

Edited by kismet, 19 August 2009 - 12:32.

[potmotr]

Like I said in the silly season thread, I think this means he won't be at Mac next year.

I think you're right.

Kovalainen has done a solid job, but nothing more than that.

With Kubica and Rosberg on the market there are better options available at the moment.

When McLaren took Kovalainen they had just come off the driver and FIA turmoil of 2007 so were desperate for stability.

Now the waters are smoother McLaren can afford to take a few more risks.

Personally I really hope McLaren go for Kubica.

He's the best driver on the market aside from Alonso.

And we know Fernando won't be going back to McLaren any time soon.

[learningtobelost]

It's a shame, I hoped for so much more from Hekki. As a macca fan I was really quite pleased when he signed as I'd been fairly impressed with the second half of his Renault campaign. He clearly hasn't developed as much as he could have and at the end of the day he's been given a lot of time to sort himself out (much like the piquet situation really).

I think it's time for him to move on, personal choice for his replacement would be Quick-Nick or Nico. I don't think Kubica's outspoken criticism of BWM last year will stand him in good stead for the Macca PR indoctrination

[potmotr]

I think it's time for him to move on, personal choice for his replacement would be Quick-Nick or Nico. I don't think Kubica's outspoken criticism of BWM last year will stand him in good stead for the Macca PR indoctrination

I think Quick Nick would be the perfect ice to Lewis's fire.

Fast and consistent, he always brings the car home.

Nick probably wouldn't challenge Lewis for outright wins.

But he'd be more than close enough to pick up the pieces on Lewis's off days.

[Pegaso]

I don't have any doubt McLaren is going to help him with an optimun strategy to fight for the victory....

[Orin]

I think Quick Nick would be the perfect ice to Lewis's fire.

Fast and consistent, he always brings the car home.

Nick probably wouldn't challenge Lewis for outright wins.

But he'd be more than close enough to pick up the pieces on Lewis's off days.

I agree. Plus he's been a pain in the behind for every teammate he's been paired with without being political. McLaren have shown huge patience with Kovalainen. With BMW's departure there are enough quality alternatives for them to choose a better replacement.

[stuckinsecond]

Heikki pitted a lot earlier than expected for some reason, which meant his other stints were longer. No doubt this affected tyre performance.

As for Hamilton's form this year...how many of his performances were worthy of a champion? A few races come to mind but he threw away possible podium places in Monaco and now here, where the car was at its best.

If McLaren have a single set of parts again, why should it go to him and not Heikki?

Because, even in the example you brought up - Monaco where Lewis threw it away, he STILL managed to finish ahead of Heikki. Says it all really.

[potmotr]

McLaren might have disadvantaged Heikki from time to time over the past 18 months.

But why wouldn't they? Lewis has always been the quicker of the two.

When the team has to make strategic decisions it will always favour the quicker driver.

Heikki has had plenty of chance to show his speed.

Leaning on the excuse that Lewis has been advantaged just doesn't cut it.

Not that I've ever heard Heikki actually say that.

[Tolyngee]

McLaren might have disadvantaged Heikki from time to time over the past 18 months.

But why wouldn't they?

I thought one of the conditions after "Lie-gate" was that McLaren couldn't do this, though?

[potmotr]

I thought one of the conditions after "Lie-gate" was that McLaren couldn't do this, though?

I mean pit strategy.

Whoever qualifies fastest gets the optimal pit strategy at McLaren, and many other teams.

Lewis would always get this because he's usually quickest.

I would imagine Lewis also gets development parts first if the team can't supply both cars in time.

But again, why wouldn't they, Lewis is almost always faster.

[fanboy]

I mean pit strategy.

Whoever qualifies fastest gets the optimal pit strategy at McLaren, and many other teams.

proof?

[primer]

Kovalainen has done a solid job

What?

[kosmos]

Heikki is doomed, maybe he can return to Renault.

[potmotr]

proof?

What, do you doubt that McLaren and other teams operate that policy?

[potmotr]

What?

Solid as in average but no terrible.

Lets be fair, he hasn't been Piquet bad.

He took a few podiums last year and won a race.

Kovalainen's been mediocre, a bit like Stefan Johannson was.

[Alfisti]

Mediocre would be .. average. he's been below par IMHO. Bottom 5 driver right now IMHO.

[Tolyngee]

What?

A very fitting response...

A more fitting response will be after the season though, when we go "Who?"

[potmotr]

Mediocre would be .. average. he's been below par IMHO. Bottom 5 driver right now IMHO.

I know what you mean, but I don't think he's been embarrassing.

Just not quite as fast as that car could be in better hands.

But hey ho, the result is the same, he's probably going to get booted.

[P123]

Heikki's outright pace is good, but the problem is come raceday he is often far behind Hamilton. He just doesn't seem to carry his quali pace over into the races. He did though also have some shockingly bad luck last season which prevented him adding considerably to his points tally.

[hippie]

Whoever qualifies fastest gets the optimal pit strategy at McLaren, and many other teams.

Lewis would always get this because he's usually quickest.

I would imagine Lewis also gets development parts first if the team can't supply both cars in time.

But again, why wouldn't they, Lewis is almost always faster.

Kovalainen has actually shown pretty decent performance in qualifying.

Grid positions for McLaren drivers in 2009:
Australia, Kovalainen 12. and Hamilton 18.
Malesia, Hamilton 12. and Kovalainen 14.
China, Hamilton 9. and Kovalainen 12.
Bahrain, Hamilton 5. and Kovalainen 11.
Barcelona, Hamilton 14. and Kovalainen 18.
Monaco, Kovalainen 7. and Hamilton 20. (16.)
Turkey, Kovalainen 14. and Hamilton 16.
Great Britain, Kovalainen 13. and Hamilton 19.
Germany, Hamilton 5. and Kovalainen 6.
Hungary, Hamilton 4. and Kovalainen 6.

Overall, Hamilton has so far won Kovalainen in qualifying 6 - 4.

[FlatOverCrest]

Kubica to McLaren in 2010 IMHO...

[Pegaso]

Kovalainen has actually shown pretty decent performance in qualifying.

Grid positions for McLaren drivers in 2009:
Australia, Kovalainen 12. and Hamilton 18.
Malesia, Hamilton 12. and Kovalainen 14.
China, Hamilton 9. and Kovalainen 12.
Bahrain, Hamilton 5. and Kovalainen 11.
Barcelona, Hamilton 14. and Kovalainen 18.
Monaco, Kovalainen 7. and Hamilton 20. (16.)
Turkey, Kovalainen 14. and Hamilton 16.
Great Britain, Kovalainen 13. and Hamilton 19.
Germany, Hamilton 5. and Kovalainen 6.
Hungary, Hamilton 4. and Kovalainen 6.

Overall, Hamilton has so far won Kovalainen in qualifying 6 - 4.

McLaren is a one guy team. Anyone who believes all the BS stating the opposite that comes from the McLaren bosses it's quite naïve, dumb, a McLaren/Hamilton fanboy or all of them combined.

[Anomnader]

I don't think very many people dispute Heikkis qualifying ability, for some reason he doesn't carry it on in a race, its either just a solid unspectacular drive, doing nothing spectacular or this year, hitting or being hit by someone, luck?

He's not aggressive, he's like Vettel, but slower..............

[Anomnader]

McLaren is a one guy team. Anyone who believes all the BS stating the opposite that comes from the McLaren bosses it's quite naïve, dumb, a McLaren/Hamilton fanboy or all of them combined.

As opposed to a Mac/Lewis bashing Alonso fanboy?

[craftverk]

Kovalainen has actually shown pretty decent performance in qualifying.

Grid positions for McLaren drivers in 2009:
Australia, Kovalainen 12. and Hamilton 18.
Malesia, Hamilton 12. and Kovalainen 14.
China, Hamilton 9. and Kovalainen 12.
Bahrain, Hamilton 5. and Kovalainen 11.
Barcelona, Hamilton 14. and Kovalainen 18.
Monaco, Kovalainen 7. and Hamilton 20. (16.)
Turkey, Kovalainen 14. and Hamilton 16.
Great Britain, Kovalainen 13. and Hamilton 19.
Germany, Hamilton 5. and Kovalainen 6.
Hungary, Hamilton 4. and Kovalainen 6.

Overall, Hamilton has so far won Kovalainen in qualifying 6 - 4.

There are many things you're not taking into account, including Hamilton's crash in Monaco quali, Hamilton's gearbox dying in Aus quali and him being caught out by a red flag in Silverstone quali.

Kovi has shown good one lap pace, but that could be due to the way he sets up his car, where as Hamilton usually has a better race set-up

[potmotr]

McLaren is a one guy team. Anyone who believes all the BS stating the opposite that comes from the McLaren bosses it's quite naïve, dumb, a McLaren/Hamilton fanboy or all of them combined.

And what does that make you?

[MinT]

Overall, Hamilton has so far won Kovalainen in qualifying 6 - 4.

No points in quali though - now post the race results....

Kovi has been ok but not great, his gap to Hamilton has mostly been too wide particularly in races meaning the team have not picked up the points they should have.

Still if he can get one place behind Hamilton in the remaining races he still has a chance of a McLaren seat next year but it is looking doubtful.

Edited by MinT, 19 August 2009 - 18:36.

[Pegaso]

As opposed to a Mac/Lewis bashing Alonso fanboy?

I don't know what is so bad about recognising that McLaren centers all their efforts in LH. It's something many others teams have done with great results, like Ferrari with Scumacher or Renault with Alonso, for instance. If McLaren still wants to sell us a (false) image of honesty, equality, fair play, etc., that's quite pathetic and even more pathethic are the people who believe that BS.

Edited by Pegaso, 19 August 2009 - 18:39.

[potmotr]

If McLaren still wants to sell us a (false) image of honesty, equality, fair play, etc., that's quite pathetic and even more pathethic are the people who believe that BS.

Jesus, chill out.

[Pegaso]

Jesus, chill out.

I'm extremely relaxed, I'm just telling it like it is.

[Anomnader]

I'm extremely relaxed, I'm just telling it like it is.

No, you're telling us what you think, theres a difference.