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Worst driver to win a Grand Prix


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#1 Giraffe

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 11:25

Inspired by the thread, "Best driver to never win a Grand Prix" I started to think who might have been the worst driver to win one! That does not necessarily mean that they were a bad driver per se, but not generally considered to be of Grand Prix winning calibre. Some I am about to mention it might well be argued fit into the aforementioned category aswell, possibly?!?!
I open the bidding with Giancarlo Baghetti, Jo Bonnier, Vittorio Brambilla & Jochen Mass. Might I also dare mention Jean Alesi and possibly the talented but remarkably fortunate multiple GP winner Johnny Herbert?!?!

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#2 David McKinney

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 15:37

I'm sure we've done this before, Raffy

No doubt someone will come up with a link

#3 Doug Nye

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 15:46

'Worst' being a VERY relative term...

DCN

#4 RStock

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 16:16

I'd say winning alone shows your not the worst driver , in that , even if it was a "lucky win" , as in several cars falling out , they were at least good enough to be in position to take advantage of it .

As far as Baghetti , he also won the Napoli and Syracuse non-championship GP's . And I thought Alesi proved his worth when he was in the Tyrrell by battling with Senna . And I never thought of Jo Bonnier as "not talented" .

But as with Alesi , it all depends on the car your in , really .

#5 Glengavel

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 17:16

Pete Aron?


#6 David M. Kane

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 17:41

Who friggin' cares or wants to friggin' know! Sorry but this sort of stuff really torques me. Get friggin' positive please, failure is of no interest to this cowboy, obviously I can't speak for others. :down:

I agree with Doug in that "worst" is a relative term as in extremely relative.

Edited by David M. Kane, 14 June 2009 - 17:56.


#7 ensign14

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 17:48

"Sabipa". Total unknown who fluked a win by being the only car running healthily against a non-existent field.

Yet even he had to drive for over four hours on skinny little tyres in an era where a mistake often led to death.

#8 Giraffe

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 17:59

Who friggin' cares or wants to friggin' know! Sorry but this sort of stuff really torques me. Get friggin' positive please, failure is of no interest to this cowboy, obviously I can't speak for others. :down:


Oh, but we are talking about success here, not failure! If you win a GP, it's the pinnacle of success as far as I am concerned, and you have it forever. The guys we are talking about did just that, and a win is a win is a win, but don't tell me any of them were a patch on Amon, for example whom I'm rather glad won none rather than one?


#9 Giraffe

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 18:02

I'm sure we've done this before, Raffy

No doubt someone will come up with a link


I'm sure you are right David, but I couldn't find it! When opening a new thread these days, I always have the sneaking suspicion that it's been done sometime before, as you can fit alot of topics into 10 years! :well:


#10 Giraffe

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 18:15

Who friggin' cares or wants to friggin' know! Sorry but this sort of stuff really torques me. Get friggin' positive please, failure is of no interest to this cowboy, obviously I can't speak for others. :down:

I agree with Doug in that "worst" is a relative term as in extremely relative.


Oh. but how I would love to be on that particular "worst" list! I'd dine out on it forever! :love:


#11 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 19:36

'Worst' notwithstanding, I sure wish my name could have come up in this thread.

:)

#12 URY914

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 20:56

How about this as being the worst thread?

#13 Giraffe

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 21:30

How about this as being the worst thread?


Yes, you are probably right, when I think about it; I'll get me coat........................... :wave: bye!


#14 FrankB

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 22:00

Who friggin' cares or wants to friggin' know! Sorry but this sort of stuff really torques me. Get friggin' positive please, failure is of no interest to this cowboy, obviously I can't speak for others. :down:

I agree with Doug in that "worst" is a relative term as in extremely relative.


So this sort of stuff "torques" you so much that you open it in spite of its title and take the time to respond to it. Not only that, but you return to it so that you can take more time in editting your post!

Edited by FrankB, 14 June 2009 - 22:17.


#15 David M. Kane

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 22:10

That right FrankB...

#16 Gary Davies

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 00:45

This thread gets into "list" territory, which I normally avoid like the plague. In this instance, "worst" is a ghastly adjective to use.

I wonder, though, if the thread might have have a chance if the adjective in the proposition had been "luckiest"?

#17 Giraffe

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 08:00

This thread gets into "list" territory, which I normally avoid like the plague. In this instance, "worst" is a ghastly adjective to use.

I wonder, though, if the thread might have have a chance if the adjective in the proposition had been "luckiest"?


No, "worst" I said and "worst" I meant! "Luckiest" opens a different can of worms. Many excellent GP drivers have also benifited from good fortune. Baghetti was in the right place at the right time, but then rapidly dissapeared as the competition mounted. Pro-rata, Brambilla simply wouldn't get a drive today, and Bonnier whom I liked immensely and was a very competent driver probably wouldn't get a chance today either. Mass was the ideal No2 driver for his day; never a threat but a likeable chap who kept out of the way. Alesi was another kettle of fish, at times a blindingly fast driver but inconsistent and a poor decision maker.
However, I derived great joy from their wins and wish that similar scenarios could prevail on the odd occasion today! It would be great to see a driver who normally resides towards the rear of the grid, stumble to a win as a result of extenuating circumstances, but that would be an almost impossible scenario currently.


#18 ensign14

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 09:10

Yet Brambilla won a race for a team that had never won before in grotesque conditions that equalized cars. At the age of 37, maybe 10 years past his putative peak. Baghetti made a career choice on a par with Tom Jones joining Crass. Mass seemingly was mentally shattered by Hunt, he was never far off Emmo and when Hunt first joined Mass was close.

Fact is, inasmuch as anyone can rank drivers, there must be a best and a worst in every category. But it's wholly subjective. So the worst GP winner ever is only the worst for whichever people think he was the worst. :drunk: Doesn't mean they weren't any good, but if Sabipa had any other drives that were worthy of note I am unaware of them.

#19 thiscocks

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 09:20

I suppose you would just pick a number of drivers who have won only 1 gp. The two I think of are JP Beltoise and Peter Gethin. But i'd just say those drives were brilliant individual efforts which for many reasons they didnt have the chance to repeat. I couldnt say they were the 'worst' drivers to win a gp because I dont think there is such a thing, but ofcourse I know what you mean. Every driver who has won a gp for whatever reason(even if all the cars retire ahead of him) deserve to win it I think.

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#20 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 09:28

I do not read / see this as an attempt to make a list of the worst F1 drivers, there are sites wholly dedicated to that, and it is not something which this forum should (or in general) are producing.

I can not see why an argued reasonable post, giving reasons for why a particular Grand Prix winner, can not be seen as the 'worst' to win a Grand Prix.

Making it to the starting grid of a F1 race, mean that you are a HIGHLY qualified race driver, making you if not unique, then simply by being there one of a very very few talented drivers through the history of Auto Racing.

By the same token though, some are better than others. So a reasoned qualified opinion will have a number of possibly forgotten winners brought forward, discussions will be had and we will all learn a little here and there which we never knew before.

There is no need to get all wrung up, if you do not like a particular thread, or the manner in which discussion inside it is being conducted, then stay away, I do that on a daily basis.

Since I am at work I will post my suggestions and arguments later.

:cool:

#21 thiscocks

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 09:30

I would also add Olivier Panis to the list

#22 Giraffe

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 09:35

If you win a Grand Prix, no matter how, it elevates you into a very special and exclusive club, and it changes the way you are perceived. Look at Richard Attwood, fantastic all round driver and good egg, Le Mans winner t'boot, but if only he had been able to win in Monaco, rather than finish a challenging second.............. I really don't think that there has ever been an undeserving Grand Prix winner though, a Foinavon if you like?

#23 Hieronymus

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 10:11

I would also add Olivier Panis to the list


Panis was at least European F3000 champion and also a superior driver in French F3. I would say that the cars he drove in F1 was pretty bad...

#24 Gary Davies

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 10:18

No, "worst" I said and "worst" I meant!


Yeah, right, whatever... :rolleyes:


#25 GD66

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 10:55

Thierry Boutsen. To the untrained eye, a plodder, or an adequate #2. But a winner, nonetheless. Whatever the circumstances though, to have won a GP is something they can't take away from you, and in Baghetti's case, to win your first...I thought at Melbourne '96 I was going to see young Villeneuve duplicate the feat, but an oil leak pit paid to that. And I always rather liked Brambilla's win, not just that it was somewhat quixotic, or that he nailed the pit barrier after crossing the line, or that he was an ex-motorcycle racer, but because some of his pit crew were young kiwi blokes who used to drink in the Star Hotel, Tauranga, where I used to go for a sharp one when I was a lad.... :drunk:

#26 tom58long

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 21:02

whenever i want to see an old race on video, canada 89 and australia 89 are always in the game. both races has difficult weather conditionss and both races were won by thierry boutsen. of course he took benefit from sennas retirement in both events. but in canada he drove a fantastic race against riccardo patrese and in the cruel sea of adelaide he was the only driver without any mistake (senna crashed brundle) and drove a fantastic race.

from my point of view he was a real rain man - and not to mention in this "worst driver" case.

tom

#27 Giraffe

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 21:21

whenever i want to see an old race on video, canada 89 and australia 89 are always in the game. both races has difficult weather conditionss and both races were won by thierry boutsen. of course he took benefit from sennas retirement in both events. but in canada he drove a fantastic race against riccardo patrese and in the cruel sea of adelaide he was the only driver without any mistake (senna crashed brundle) and drove a fantastic race.

from my point of view he was a real rain man - and not to mention in this "worst driver" case.

tom


Three wins and 132 points as opposed to 1 win and 15.5 points for Brambilla clearly indicates that Boutsen could never be considered for the accolade of "worst". Boutsen was smooth and understated, wheras Brambilla always seemed to to be engaged in a fight with his car. Highly entertaining, however!


#28 lil'chris

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 22:18

Baghetti made a career choice on a par with Tom Jones joining Crass.


The mind boggles at the thought of the Welsh crooner singing/shouting "Big A Little A" :lol: