53 replies to this topic

[HistoricMustang]

I was hitting all the usual apex's coming home from work, rounded a curve and advanced up a pretty steep hill here in Georgia this afternoon.

I immediately wondered what was the steepest hill designed into a race circuit, either purpose built or street?

Of course hill climbs would not count, but it would also be interesting to know which one of those had the steepest.

Notice I said "was" as modern day racing has nothing to present.

Henry

[Nello]

If you've ever been to Spa you'll be amazed how steep Eau Rouge really is in the flesh. You never get the same impression on television...........

[Les Dalton]

Hi there Historic Mustang, Les Dalton here in sunny France.
I think the steepest hill on any race track in the UK is probably "THE MOUNTAIN" at Cadwell Park in Linconshire, if I knew how to post photographs on this site,I would post a few of my M5 BMW on the Mountain during the National BMW saloon car championships.
Kind regards,
Les.

Edited by Les Dalton, 19 June 2009 - 21:00.

[buckaluck]

The original Long Beach coarse had a wild downhill that was quite steep i'll try to post a pic later today, but i'd say it has everything I could think of beat hands down.

Buck

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by HistoricMustang
I.....Notice I said "was" as modern day racing has nothing to present.....

You haven't been to Bathurst's Mt Panorama circuit yet, have you?

[lil'chris]

Hi there Historic Mustang, Les Dalton here in sunny France.
I think the steepest hill on any race track in the UK is probably "THE MOUNTAIN" at Cadwell Park in Linconshire, if I knew how to post photographs on this site,I would post a few of my M5 BMW on the Mountain during the National BMW saloon car championships.
Kind regards,
Les.

I'd agree with The Mountain at Cadwell for possibly the steepest ( though very short ) uphill climb globally, with the first part of the Corkscrew at Laguna Seca for a downhill drop. Mind you I don't know what gradients there are / were at places like the old Schottenring

[beighes]

Greetings,
Quick comment, Laguna's website says 300 ft. drop from T6 to T11. I couldn't find any other specifics. I do remember hearing about a time that they tried to run SCCA club event(s) in reverse around the track. A challenge for big bore cars, a struggle for low horsepower cars, and a wild ride from T6 down the hill, through the fastest bits of the circuit to, the then, T9...................cheers

[David McKinney]

If you've ever been to Spa you'll be amazed how steep Eau Rouge really is in the flesh. You never get the same impression on television...........

Nice pic, Nello
But Eau Rouge is out of shot to the left
The picture is of Radaillon

[Direct Drive]

Pike's Peak Hillclimb. 12 miles long, something like 150 turns from 9000 to 14,000 feet.

[ensign14]

Grossglockner can beat that, it goes from under 4,000 to over 8,000 ft in eight miles. No idea how many turns though.

[HistoricMustang]

You haven't been to Bathurst's Mt Panorama circuit yet, have you?

You are correct Mr. Bell!

And, wonderful to see the newer members jumping in with some pretty good information.

Henry

[Nello]

Nice pic, Nello
But Eau Rouge is out of shot to the left
The picture is of Radaillon

Yes aware of that David but this shot really shows the climb up out of the corner...........best I could 'google'

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

The run into the hairpin, Corner # 5, at Mosport is positively stunning! Like arrowing into a brickwall at speed. It's difficult to even walk up let alone drive. As well, the run down the chute immediately preceeding is exciting. At a driver's school there back in the mid-80's, I mentioned it to students during a course walk and from the bottom of the chute, had them look back to the top of Corner #4 where we'd been moments before. Got a few gulps, I think.

Also, I believe that Niki Lauda mentioned T4 and the chute following as one the 10 Most Difficult Corners in Grand Prix racing.

[lil'chris]

Thinking about this, could you include the entry onto the Members Banking at Brooklands ( The Grand Prix circuit rather than the Banked Outer circuit ) ?

[HistoricMustang]

Yes aware of that David but this shot really shows the climb up out of the corner...........best I could 'google'

Try to clarify in the future when posting as the Chaps here really have their underwear on correctly.

David is one of the best!

Mine tend to get in a wad every once in a while.

Henry

[Buford]

Pike's Peak Hillclimb. 12 miles long, something like 150 turns from 9000 to 14,000 feet.

Been there - done that.

[lil'chris]

Buford,

It's a long way up but is there any point that's so steep that you're actually looking straight up into the sky as you do at Cadwell as you go up the Mountain ? I've seen footage of Pies Peak but never in-car stuff so don't know.

Oh and can I add you to the drivers that never got a fair chance thread

cheers

Chris

[wagons46]

Bathurst's steepest grade is 1 in 6.13 . From the pit area to the top of the mount is a rise of approx 162 metres (531ft )

[D-Type]

How steep is the Brooklands Test Hill? After all it formed part of one of the circuits there, was it the Mountain circuit?

Edited by D-Type, 19 June 2009 - 23:29.

[lil'chris]

How steep is the Brooklands Test Hill? After all it formed part of one of the circuits there, was it the Mountain circuit?

Are you sure Duncan ? I thought the test hill was a standalone part of the complex ( to use modern terminology ) which is why I didn't consider it in an earlier response.

[Terry Walker]

I've walked up the test hill at Brooklands, and of course it is very steep. But it is just one car wide, and stops at the top. Never part of the Mountain Circuit. For my money, the climb through the Cutting at Bathurst has to be a very strong candidate for steepness, and if you include going downhill, then the very sharp drop at The Dipper is in with a big chance. It is a tightish right hander with a sudden drop, and the inside line is much steeper than the outside line.

Edited by Terry Walker, 20 June 2009 - 01:04.

[buckaluck]

Grossglockner can beat that, it goes from under 4,000 to over 8,000 ft in eight miles. No idea how many turns though.

He did say no Hill Climb so why post something hill climb?

[Nick Wa]

Paddock Hill at Brands pre the 1st extension when the circuit direction was anti-clockwise.

[RA Historian]

"and down the cliff face and into the water......"

The Grand Prix of Gibraltar, of course.

Tom

[Direct Drive]

He did say no Hill Climb so why post something hill climb?

Hard to call those things "hills."
Shelsley and Goodwood are "hills," the others, [long race tracks with start lines on one end and finish on the other], mountains.

Edited by Direct Drive, 20 June 2009 - 03:48.

[David McKinney]

He did say no Hill Climb so why post something hill climb?

Read the first post again - thoroughly this time

[Buford]

Buford,

It's a long way up but is there any point that's so steep that you're actually looking straight up into the sky as you do at Cadwell as you go up the Mountain ? I've seen footage of Pies Peak but never in-car stuff so don't know.

Oh and can I add you to the drivers that never got a fair chance thread

cheers

Chris

Well I didn't get a fair chance its true but neither did many others, in fact most others I raced with. Fair had nothing to do with getting rides and neither did talent. I can't even tell the story of what car owner promised me a test if he got sponsorship for a third car, and what driver got the ride instead when I didn't get the test, because nobody would believe it anyway. I told the story once on Speednet a decade ago and they were yelling bullshit for weeks until I found the letter and offered to bet anybody $1000 I could probe it. Then the lemmings shut up. Blowing the Russell School Driver to Europe Scholarship due to one missed shift, because the seat was too far back and the shift to third was just at the end of my arm length, when I had the fastest times, most consistent times, and best observer ratings of the 80 scholarship finalists, haunts me to this day. What might have been.

As far as Pikes Peak this should answer your question Chris. I can't answer because it was 30 years ago ... and my eyes were closed.

Edited by Buford, 20 June 2009 - 07:30.

[HistoricMustang]

He did say no Hill Climb so why post something hill climb?

TNF is not your normal run of the mill forum. Use caution before posting.

My butt got smacked around numerous times when on-boarding.

"Quality" is the name of the game.

Henry

[HistoricMustang]

Well I didn't get a fair chance its true but neither did many others, in fact most others I raced with. Fair had nothing to do with getting rides and neither did talent. I can't even tell the story of what car owner promised me a test if he got sponsorship for a third car, and what driver got the ride instead when I didn't get the test, because nobody would believe it anyway. I told the story once on Speednet a decade ago and they were yelling bullshit for weeks until I found the letter and offered to bet anybody $1000 I could probe it. Then the lemmings shut up. Blowing the Russell School Driver to Europe Scholarship due to one missed shift, because the seat was too far back and the shift to third was just at the end of my arm length, when I had the fastest times, most consistent times, and best observer ratings of the 80 scholarship finalists, haunts me to this day. What might have been.

As far as Pikes Peak this should answer your question Chris. I can't answer because it was 30 years ago ... and my eyes were closed.

Buford, there are a lot of you folks in what I call the "Jack Pennington Club".

Some of the best have received the shaft without one ounce of grease of applied.

Sad, very sad indeed.

Henry

[Rob Semmeling]

Bathurst's steepest grade is 1 in 6.13 . From the pit area to the top of the mount is a rise of approx 162 metres (531ft )

Thanks for that, 1 in 6.13 equals 16.3%.

Quiddelbacher-Höhe at the Nürburgring is a short climb of 17%. The section up to Hohe Acht has brief bits topping at 16%, and the old Südschleife also had a very steep climb, about 13-16% depending on what source to believe.

The Steilstrecke testhill climbs 27%. Although never used during races, they did use it for several regularity runs, and the Scuderia Hanseat driving school nowadays uses it the other way round, so downhill.

IIRC, Eau Rouge / Raidillon or whatever you want to call it is 19% (1 in 5.26). The road course in Gulpen, the Netherlands used for motorcycle racing also had a 19% climb.

The recently opened Autodromo do Algarve near Portimao in Portugal has a steepest drop of 12%, which is a lot.

But seeing such numbers are rarely available, there's no chance of a definitive answer to the original question.

Edited by Rob Semmeling, 20 June 2009 - 09:30.

[2F-001]

But the original poster didn't say "no hillclimbs"...

Other bits of still-accessible closed circuits that are notable for giving a "pointing towards the sky" feeling towards a blind crest from the cockpit include the climbs out of the two tight right-handers at Ledenon and Ex-Muhle on the Nordschleife. The climb from Bergwerk to Klostertal, and more so from there to Hohe Acht is impressive for its length, although I doubt it is anything like the steepest overall. Cadwell's Mountain must take some beating, surely, for currently used permanent circuit.

(Sorry - my post overlapped Rob's, re the 'Ring)

Edited by 2F-001, 20 June 2009 - 09:33.

[alansart]

I think the steepest hill on any race track in the UK is probably "THE MOUNTAIN" at Cadwell Park in Linconshire

[byrkus]

I'm under impression that also the old Osterreichring had some steep sections. Like rise from start to Hella-S, or the exit of Remus Curve at 'updated' A1-Ring. But I'm not familiral with actual grades of those parts.

[Geoff E]

Many pre-war Autocar road tests used the test hill at Brooklands. The gradient is stated as being "1 in 5".

[Les Dalton]

[quote name='alansart' date='Jun 20 2009, 09:44' post='3706770']


Hi Alan,
How did you post that pic?,I am unable to work posting pics on these pages out.
I currently use Picasa for my photographs, but I have also tried Image Shack and Photobucket, but I just cant get them on the site, can you help??
Regards from France,
Les Dalton.

[alansart]

Hi Alan,
How did you post that pic?,I am unable to work posting pics on these pages out.
I currently use Picasa for my photographs, but I have also tried Image Shack and Photobucket, but I just cant get them on the site, can you help??
Regards from France,
Les Dalton.

I post them via my own website.

With Image Shack and Photobucket, when you upload your photos you are given options of how to post them. Choose the Insert image icon in TNF (2nd along under Fonts) and copy and paste the URL address from Image Shack or Photobucket.

If all else fails send them to me and I'll post them

[Ray Bell]

Les, if you follow the instructions I have posted with pictures on the thread about posting pics you simply cannot go wrong...

[philippe charuest]

Mont Tremblant have 2 place with quite steep just after turn one (or mclaren bend)and later (the gulch) when they came back in the upper part of the track. at Road Atlanta theres few big drop too specially the one just before the pit staight

[lil'chris]

As far as Pikes Peak this should answer your question Chris. I can't answer because it was 30 years ago ... and my eyes were closed.

Thanks for these. I wouldn't want to ride my bicycle up there !!!

[Victor_RO]

The run into the hairpin, Corner # 5, at Mosport is positively stunning! Like arrowing into a brickwall at speed. It's difficult to even walk up let alone drive. As well, the run down the chute immediately preceeding is exciting. At a driver's school there back in the mid-80's, I mentioned it to students during a course walk and from the bottom of the chute, had them look back to the top of Corner #4 where we'd been moments before. Got a few gulps, I think.

Also, I believe that Niki Lauda mentioned T4 and the chute following as one the 10 Most Difficult Corners in Grand Prix racing.

Is that the area of the Mosport track where Manfred Winkelhock crashed in '85 and suffered injuries that killed him a day later?

[fines]

Nope, I believe that was Turn 2.

[Victor_RO]

Nope, I believe that was Turn 2.

Thanks... the Wiki page about Manfred certainly does say T2.

[fines]

A rare case of Wikipedia getting it right?

[HistoricMustang]

A rare case of Wikipedia getting it right?

[D-Type]

Are you sure Duncan ? I thought the test hill was a standalone part of the complex ( to use modern terminology ) which is why I didn't consider it in an earlier response.

I am 99% certain. Certainly the test hill was originally a stand alone feature. But when they rang the changes at Brooklands, creating the Mountain Circuit and the Campbell Circuit as alternatives to the Outer Circuit, I believe they did utilise the test hill. On reflection, I think it was part of the Campbell Circuit rather than the Mountain Circuit. I have certainly seen photos of the Test Hill with more than one car on it.

Edit: The Test Hill is 1:4 at its steepest

Edited by D-Type, 21 June 2009 - 16:13.

[raceannouncer2003]

Westwood, 1961, a mixed group of cars coming down from Deer's Leap to the Hairpin. The group includes Pete Lovely (Lotus 18), Pat Pigott (Lotus 20), and Bob McLean (Morgan).



From Tom Johnston's book on Westwood:

"...Apparently most of the design was done on-site by club members and bulldozer operators. The most significant variation was that the back straight was originally intended to be level, but Bill Marshall, the lead site-preparation operator, looked at the 75-foot rise in elevation at the midpoint of the straight and said, 'You expect me to what?' Thus Deer's Leap was born..."

Less than a month to go till the Westwood 50 reunion!!

Vince H.

Edited by raceannouncer2003, 21 June 2009 - 04:51.

[ZOOOM]

http://img191.images...dowdalehr72.jpg

End of discussion...
I brought this over from the "Edwards Special" thread. It was posted by Grand Prix 61.
It is the front straight at Meadowdale in Carpentersville Illinois. The track was in operation from '58 through about '65.
I hope old GP61 doesn't mind...
ZOOOM


It doesn't even show the bottom of the hill!

Edited by ZOOOM, 21 June 2009 - 02:45.

[Bob Riebe]

Without regard to Pikes Peak, how do these hills compare to the pit straight a Road America, that way I have something I can compare?

[Buford]

Without regard to Pikes Peak, how do these hills compare to the pit straight a Road America, that way I have something I can compare?

About the same except it goes on for 14 miles not three or 4 seconds and you can't fall over the side at RA, though you could get cut in half before they changed the pit road..

[HistoricMustang]

Allow me to add for documentation.

The downhill grade at Augusta (left side of photograph) was 3300 feet with an 85 foot elevation drop. The uphill grade (right side of photograph) was the same. Our friend Lotus23 did some laps here and I would be interested in his comments.

Henry