85 replies to this topic

[Dudley]

But that's the cars not the tracks fault! Geesh!

The Clios couldn't pass, The FR 2.0s couldn't pass, the Meganes couldn't pass, the FR 3.5s couldn't pass.

What can?

That said I agree it doesn't need that many changes but Stowe for instance is just broken for passing and it should be the obvious place to do it.

Don't confuse hating the track (which is wrong, it's very close to good) with thinking that the owners and organisers are a bunch of complacent, incompetent, disorganised, arrogant twatfaces, which is true.

Edited by Dudley, 08 July 2009 - 18:32.

[Henrytheeigth]

I guess they simply didn't try hard enough to pass!

[eliteboy2780]

The Clios couldn't pass, The FR 2.0s couldn't pass, the Meganes couldn't pass, the FR 3.5s couldn't pass.

What can?

That said I agree it doesn't need that many changes but Stowe for instance is just broken for passing and it should be the obvious place to do it.

Don't confuse hating the track (which is wrong, it's very close to good) with thinking that the owners and organisers are a bunch of complacent, incompetent, disorganised, arrogant twatfaces, which is true.

Did you used to work at Silverstone and get fired by then or something? you have a horrible dislike for the people there.

[Dudley]

The leadership certainly because it's thanks to them not giving a crap or being hopelessly incompetent that we came very close to losing the British GP. They've ruined what they have.

Silverstone is (vaguely) attempting to make strides as a venue now but it's 25 years later than they should and the paying spectator is still basically considered ****.

Edited by Dudley, 09 July 2009 - 11:39.

[eliteboy2780]

The leadership certainly because it's thanks to them not giving a crap or being hopelessly incompetent that we came very close to losing the British GP. They've ruined what they have.

Silverstone is (vaguely) attempting to make strides as a venue now but it's 25 years later than they should and the paying spectator is still basically considered ****.

Still doesn't answer the question of if you worked there and got fired!! It is so personal against the management that I think you might!!!

[chdphd]

One more comment about the "London Champ Car Trophy". As far as I know, they used the Indy layout because that what was used in the 1978 when IndyCars previously visited the circuit. Hence that layout's name.

I found an excellent 1978 Brands Hatch Indy video at YouTube

I was at the "London Champ Car Trophy" and was indeed very dull. It was SeaBass's first victory in Champ Car.





Some photos from the event

Edited by MonkeyBoy, 10 July 2009 - 18:32.

[Celloman]

It occurred to me while watching the World Series by Renault race at the weekend that Silverstone must be one of the WORST circuits in the world for overtaking possibilities.

Silverstone is by no accounts one of the worst tracks to overtake on in the calendar, in fact quite the opposite. This post sums up brilliantly the number of overtakings per track from the last 10 years. The top 3 of those circuits still in the calendar is China, Brazil and Britain. Results are influenced by rain especially for China which has had 3 rain races of 6 but for Silverstone it's "only" 3 of 10 if I remember correctly.

[Brogan]

Celloman, that data has now been expanded upon and has also been split out into dry races only.

Data for the last 25 years is here: F1 Overtaking Statistics & Analysis

The bottom half of the thread is the dry race data.


Regards.

[Jackmancer]

Silverstone is a great circuit but so is Donington so that's the reason I won't really miss it: We get a great circuit back for it, Donington has history as well.

[Clatter]

Silverstone is a great circuit but so is Donington so that's the reason I won't really miss it: We get a great circuit back for it, Donington has history as well.

The problem at the moment though is that we are going from a circuit that can run the GP now, to a circuit which cannot. As things stand we have no GP.

[Ricardo F1]

Silverstone is a facking brilliant circuit ; certainly to drive and I have no issues with watching the races there. Can't for the life of me figure why anyone would start a thread about Silverstone when there's probably 12 other circuits on the calendar worse. The car aero is the overtaking problem, a rapid left, right, left, followed by the Hangar straight should give anyone the ability to draft and pass. Ain't Silverstone's fault.

[Captain Tightpants]

I absolutely love the section from Copse all the way down through Maggotts, Becketts and Chapel, the length of the Hangar Straight and around Stowe corner. However, I absolutely despite the rest of the circuit. It's all chicanes and single-file section; If Formula One returns to Silverstone, I hope they use the "Arrowhead" configuration, which leaves the circuit at Abbey, goes back in the direction of Becketts, and after an almight swing to the left, returns to the main circuit, rejoining halfway through Brooklands, which has the effect of changing the final corner complex. It goes a little like this:



The idiots who call thsmelve the BRDC would never do that, in which case I'd like to see the cars go to Silverton Park. Or maybe Doningstone. From he Silverstone straight, it includes Copse, Maggotts, Becketts, Chapel, the Hangar straight, Stowe and the Vale, but then it leads into Redgate, the Craner Curves an Old Hairpin, Starkey's Brigge and finally McLean's before crossing the start/finish line and the run down to Copse once more. You wouldn't get any overtaking, but my word, would it be a ridiculously awesome ride.

[anbeck]

me and my mate discussed this, and we reckon if stowe was made tighter, and club vale was made tighter as well, as well as abbey made into a tighter chicane, then you could possibly have more action.

No, please don't ruin what's left! Silverstone has been butchered with for quite some time now, and it didn't do the circuit any good, IMO.

Making stowe and all the other corners tighter will not give you more action, but it will take away some spectacular parts of the circuit. I don't want to see more slow corners, F1 is full of them and it does not help overtaking a single bit.

The first half of the lap in Silverstone is one of the few parts (+Spa +Suzuka) that are worth watching an F1 car at the limit.

[Davyhulme]

I've been a few times over the last ten years, mostly fridays and saturdays. Everything that's been said about the parking, the food, is true. The facilities *are* crap and you have to look at the organisers for that. It's definitely improved but it's still crap.

Did the organisers take it for granted? I think so. You can argue they don't get any help from the government, and that's true, but they got a lovely new dual carriageway the other year. That wasn't cheap.

I really like the place though. It was the first track I visited. The first time I heard a Formula 1 car in anger. I walked round the whole thing twice. Sat at every corner just watching and listening. I won't forget it.

Overtaking is a problem, granted. But isn't it something to see the cars really working hard? Zooming through and braking into Copse. The change of direction through Becketts.... literally screaming past you on hangar straight into Stowe... it was brilliant.

I went to Donington for the MotoGP this year. I'm not saying it can't be done but I will be genuinely amazed if it's up to spec in time.

[Davyhulme]

... If Formula One returns to Silverstone, I hope they use the "Arrowhead" configuration, which leaves the circuit at Abbey, goes back in the direction of Becketts, and after an almight swing to the left, returns to the main circuit, rejoining halfway through Brooklands, which has the effect of changing the final corner complex. It goes a little like this:



The idiots who call thsmelve the BRDC would never do that...

It looks pretty much like the MotoGP configuration for 2010 - http://www.silversto...g-developments/

Won't you miss the dip and the right hander at the bridge?

[SRi130Brett]

People seem to be forgetting the fact that Silverstone provides a different spectacle to other tracks. Where else do the drivers not brake for half a lap and dance the car through sweeping esses?

I dont think an F1 car will do much braking from Redgate untill they get to McLeans having swept down the crainers....

Im a huge fan of the GP at Silverstone, it must be possibly the most satisfying track to hook up a fantastic flying lap on due to the sheer speed of the place. I'd love to do that in an F1 car. Ive driven the track in my own car once on a trackday and it really was very special, I could see the appeal to the drivers. I watched the qualifying from the outside of Brooklands this year and through the complex you get a fantastic view.

I also love Donington. Its my favourite track in the UK to drive and to watch races at. IF it gets sorted for the GP it will be fantastic. I dont think it will though.

In short, I think bith are fantastic venues and am happy where ever it goes. As long as we have a race in 2010.

[Captain Tightpants]

It looks pretty much like the MotoGP configuration for 2010 - http://www.silversto...g-developments/

It pretty much is the same. Silverstone were very clever in changing the circuit because they didn't have to spend millions of dollars on an upgrade. They've got a couple of configurations to use for national and "international" events, and the Arrowhead simply uses those sections of pre-existing courses.

Won't you miss the dip and the right hander at the bridge?

Not in the slightest. Everything after Abbey to the finish line is pretty much single file.

[imthebest]

Bring Tilke in to make some changes to the circuit. He normally does a good job.

[repcobrabham]

I have never been there but looking at telly I have an impression that generally big single-seaters make good race at Silverstone only under extraordinary circumstances (rain, lunatics on the track, etc).

i was there in 2003 (along with father horan, before he expanded his profile by tackling that poor brazilian marathon runner in athens - of all the athletes, why did he target the fellow catholic?) and it was ****ing AWESOME.

why? flukey winds completely ****ed the aero and at one stage more drivers were dicing and overtaking that the broadcasters could keep up with. the fact that i'd been necking mumm's in the paddock since morning tea time probably helped, but RB's pass on KR for the lead at bridge (right in front of us) after harrying him into the error for the previous half lap was pure racing at its finest...

edit: that's the first time i've noticed the profanity censor! i must be getting polite in my old age...

Edited by repcobrabham, 14 October 2009 - 08:35.

[Matt Somers]

I can see both sides of the argument and the trouble is you will never please all of the people all of the time.

Silverstone Access: An airfield in the middle of nowhere with no local transport infrastructure to accomodate getting 100,000 + people to the circuit so you end up in big traffic jams for what seems like hours. Unless you drop lucky, case in point I have done Silverstone in many different ways:

2006 - Tickets for Hangar Straight Grandstand I lived in Hinckley (Leicestershire) at the time so a reletively short ride to the circuit. We drove into the circuit on Fri and Sat for Practice and Qually and parked in the car parks. Sunday we left much earlier and parked in a field using the M40 park and ride service. Great to get into the circuit, not so great getting out when you get back to your car and it's a 15 lane into 1 scenario as everyone scrambles for the exit.

2007 - Roaming Tickets, Travelled from the Isle of Wight so missed out friday and just went to qually on Saturday, driving in from the south didin't seem to cause to many issues and got parked in a field across from the circuit reletively easily. That night we continued north to see my parents in Walsall (Midlands) and stayed there the night the next morning we had the usual A43 going south debacle where you sit there for what seems like an eternity to get in.

2008 - Club Silverstone, again travelled from the IOW but this time we were camping at the golf course so easy in and not so easy out. (Ferry to catch so couldn't hang around and wait for traffic to disperse)

2009 - Copse disabled section, I took my friend Toby who is in a wheelchair, we decided to stay a little further out as we required Hotel facilities so stopped south at Chievely services and drove in each day which allowed us to use the south entrance and got us in remarkably quickly every day.

Silverstone Facilities - This year bought it home for me having the disabled area with Toby, although its in a position just at the end of the pit straight leading into Copse there is no TV in view which leads to a very frustrating race. Good job I had my radio and binoculars so I could see the screen down by the podium! I was most frustrated for Toby as although there is a small elevation ramp he still couldn't see much at the height he was and without the tv it left him very frustrated. I have been to Monza also this year so have something to benchmark Silverstone against, something I didn't have before. Having been to Monza don't feel that Silverstone is all that bad in terms of facilities, although you have to remember that Monza is in the middle of a park. The transport infrastructure in Italy is fantastic though and lends itself to the GP very well.

Donnington - I have been to the touring cars at Donnington in what must have been around 2003/4 we were in a corporate box as a friend had one at the time. I've also been there for various car shows throughout the years and can say that they will HAVE to have made a massive improvement to the facilities to come upto Silverstone's standards let alone Bernie's in my opinion. The transport infrastructure in and around Donnington will suffer the same fate as Silverstone I fear though.

As already mentioned the circuits are not always to blame for the lack of overtaking so don't expect donnington to cure that. Seeing Silverstone run anti clockwise as always been a thought of mine as I have driven the circuit a number of times I think the other way round might be quite interesting

[wewantourdarbyback]

The idiots who call thsmelve the BRDC would never do that

Perhaps you could read what they said about the new layout?

The old GP track will remain but the new layout becomes the main circuit unless a request is made to use the old layout.

[wewantourdarbyback]

I've been a few times over the last ten years, mostly fridays and saturdays. Everything that's been said about the parking, the food, is true. The facilities *are* crap and you have to look at the organisers for that. It's definitely improved but it's still crap.

What exactly is 'crap' about them?

I can't see it myself, the grandstands are fine, the toilets are these days in good nick and are far superior to anything at Spa for example. The food isn't exactly any concern of Silverstone really, they provide spaces for numerous catering companies who have always provided perfectly edible food to me. The pitlane is at a higher standard than a fair few on the calender and the track is up to standard.

[ivanalesi]

I won't miss Silverstone because it provides the most dull races in the calender, it's more impossible to overtake here than in Monaco. It's the track that lacks elevation changes, there's almost no camber anywhere... it's just good radius corners on a flat field. The racing is dull in FR2.0, nevermind 3.5 or F1... from driving point of view, it's a nice track, but from racing point of view, oh crap!
But most of all, I won't miss the BRDC, they are really living in the past! Since the Brands Hatch days, they are sitting on their bottoms and do almost nothing but argue about history and stuff.

[Davyhulme]

What exactly is 'crap' about them?

I can't see it myself, the grandstands are fine, the toilets are these days in good nick and are far superior to anything at Spa for example. The food isn't exactly any concern of Silverstone really, they provide spaces for numerous catering companies who have always provided perfectly edible food to me. The pitlane is at a higher standard than a fair few on the calender and the track is up to standard.

Please don't confuse the track with what I refer to as the circuit. I like the track and I've only seen the pitlane from the grandstand so can't really comment on that.

May I politely suggest that you have a very different idea of what is considered 'edible' in Leeds. My experience has been that it is expensive and poor quality. Warm frothy Fosters. Most of the food stands offer a choice of burgers or sausages made of cheap meat with burnt onions. And of course it's the concern of the organisers, what an odd thing to say.

I was lucky enough to be in Singapore for the GP. It was just so many steps above somewhere like Silverstone. The tickets were plastic swipe cards and came with lanyards in a presentation box, in a jiffy bag. They had hundreds of stewards and loads of sign posts. They had literally dozens of loos at each site with teams of people constantly inspecting them. Cold pints of Tiger or Heinekin (expensive but actually cheaper than local prices). Loads of bars, DJs, big name bands all through the weekend. Really excellent food - hawker style food stalls with lots of variety and everything I had was really tasty. They get Subway and Starbucks... We get Kevin's Best Brummy Burgers.

That's what I mean by crap.

[Psymon]

I have been to Monza also this year so have something to benchmark Silverstone against, something I didn't have before. Having been to Monza don't feel that Silverstone is all that bad in terms of facilities, although you have to remember that Monza is in the middle of a park. The transport infrastructure in Italy is fantastic though and lends itself to the GP very well.

I was also at Monza this year and was disappointed by the facilities, even accounting for the fact it's in the middle of a park... Silverstone's are far better in my opinion, but I don't hear calls for Monza to lose the race because of them.

The transport for the GP was good, although I think it is helped by being in the middle of a built up area, which naturally gives more transport links than somewhere in the countryside like Silverstone. I went with Page & Moy so had coach transfer to and from the circuit each day, and all went smoothly... however according to the reps getting out of the official parking areas is a nightmare, so the coaches waited nearby and then came and picked everyone up from a pre-arranged meeting point outside the circuit.

[Psymon]

May I politely suggest that you have a very different idea of what is considered 'edible' in Leeds. My experience has been that it is expensive and poor quality. Warm frothy Fosters. Most of the food stands offer a choice of burgers or sausages made of cheap meat with burnt onions. And of course it's the concern of the organisers, what an odd thing to say.

When I was last at the British GP in 2007 I had absolutely no complaints about the food, there was a wide variety of what food on offer (definitely more than just burgers or sausages) and what I had was of decent quality I thought. I'll admit it was on the expensive side, but that's not something that's specific to the British GP event...

[Clatter]

Please don't confuse the track with what I refer to as the circuit. I like the track and I've only seen the pitlane from the grandstand so can't really comment on that.

May I politely suggest that you have a very different idea of what is considered 'edible' in Leeds. My experience has been that it is expensive and poor quality. Warm frothy Fosters. Most of the food stands offer a choice of burgers or sausages made of cheap meat with burnt onions. And of course it's the concern of the organisers, what an odd thing to say.

Out of interest when did you last go to Silverstone?

[Kristian]

I do always think that the 'classic' circuits are awful for racing on weekends where there is no rain and normal grids - Spa, Suzuka and Silverstone always produce borefest races when conditions are normal.

However, I much prefer watching a borefest where the drivers seem to revel in the challenge, the circuit looks spectacular ans with a great fan atmosphere than a borefest on a carpark with a load of hairpins and geometric corners and nobody in the stands.

Edited by Kristian, 14 October 2009 - 10:38.

[wewantourdarbyback]

Please don't confuse the track with what I refer to as the circuit. I like the track and I've only seen the pitlane from the grandstand so can't really comment on that.

May I politely suggest that you have a very different idea of what is considered 'edible' in Leeds. My experience has been that it is expensive and poor quality. Warm frothy Fosters. Most of the food stands offer a choice of burgers or sausages made of cheap meat with burnt onions. And of course it's the concern of the organisers, what an odd thing to say.

Show me a sporting event in this country with better food?

And I also suggest you've never been to Leeds if you think that so perhaps you leave my city alone as it's none of your concern.

I was lucky enough to be in Singapore for the GP. It was just so many steps above somewhere like Silverstone. The tickets were plastic swipe cards and came with lanyards in a presentation box, in a jiffy bag. They had hundreds of stewards and loads of sign posts. They had literally dozens of loos at each site with teams of people constantly inspecting them. Cold pints of Tiger or Heinekin (expensive but actually cheaper than local prices). Loads of bars, DJs, big name bands all through the weekend. Really excellent food - hawker style food stalls with lots of variety and everything I had was really tasty. They get Subway and Starbucks... We get Kevin's Best Brummy Burgers.

That's what I mean by crap.

Singapore is set in the middle of a city with almost limitless funding from a government, what do you expect? You're not going to get a subway and starbucks at a real reacetrack where they are only going to get custom for a handful of days throughout the year. The 'big name bands' weren't put on by Singapore IIRC, I believe that was part of 'F1 Rocks', an initiative launched well after te BGP this season. Your complaints are just illogical. Do you know how much those swipe cards and presentation packs you were given cost? May I ask how many other races use them? I for one have never seen that at any sporting event for ordinary customers that I have been to.

[Davyhulme]

Out of interest when did you last go to Silverstone?

The Saturday of 2008.

[djellison]

It's the track that lacks elevation changes, there's almost no camber anywhere... it's just good radius corners on a flat field.

You've never been to Silverstone have you? Indeed - I don't think many of those throwing criticism the way of Silverstone have. I've not been to a GP there for a long time (just too expensive) but the events I HAVE been to have been well supplied with food, drink, toilets etc.

Sometimes I wonder if people walking into Silverstone are expecting the deli counter at Waitrose. It is, after all, a racing circuit, not a food hall.

Edited by djellison, 14 October 2009 - 11:08.

[Clatter]

The Saturday of 2008.

Then you must have gone with your eyes closed. There is a huge variety of food available around the track and especially in the village. It's far from being just burgers and sausages. As others have said, it's not cheap, but then that's the same for any event in Britain.

[Davyhulme]

Show me a sporting event in this country with better food?

And I also suggest you've never been to Leeds if you think that so perhaps you leave my city alone as it's none of your concern.

Singapore is set in the middle of a city with almost limitless funding from a government, what do you expect? You're not going to get a subway and starbucks at a real reacetrack where they are only going to get custom for a handful of days throughout the year. The 'big name bands' weren't put on by Singapore IIRC, I believe that was part of 'F1 Rocks', an initiative launched well after te BGP this season. Your complaints are just illogical. Do you know how much those swipe cards and presentation packs you were given cost? May I ask how many other races use them? I for one have never seen that at any sporting event for ordinary customers that I have been to.

Calm down shouty man. I'm not sure why you're getting so defensive about the catering. As I said, I like the place. I'm British. I want there to be a BGP. I'm just saying the facilities are crap.

For an example of good food, just off the top of my head... The Emirates. Normal priced seat, not corporate.

I thought you'd bite about the Leeds comment. I like Leeds! I've been loads of times. Manchester, la, la, la

I do realise the Singapore GP is in a city (I was there). So I only mentioned the facilities that were temporary. Everything I described was temporary - tents, stands, portaloos etc. The bands/DJs were all within the circuit. Carl Cox, John Digweed, Travis, Backstreet Boys, loads of local acts I didn't know - no extra charge. F1 Rocks was a separate event away from the circuit. I was in the grandstand, not the posh seats or the Paddock Club, for three days and it was much cheaper than 3 days at Silverstone.

It's much harder to walk round the circuit. The view of the track isn't as good but the facilities were much, much better. So ner.

[Davyhulme]

Then you must have gone with your eyes closed. There is a huge variety of food available around the track and especially in the village. It's far from being just burgers and sausages. As others have said, it's not cheap, but then that's the same for any event in Britain.

I don't know why everyone's sticking up for the catering. It's just not good quality food. It's just not. And it's expensive. We don't have to accept it. I went to a test match at Lords last year. Most of the food there was from vans, not fixed premises. Much better food. Been to any festivals recently? Same again.

Cheers.

[Clatter]

I don't know why everyone's sticking up for the catering. It's just not good quality food. It's just not. And it's expensive. We don't have to accept it. I went to a test match at Lords last year. Most of the food there was from vans, not fixed premises. Much better food. Been to any festivals recently? Same again.

Cheers.

It's only because IMHO the catering is no worse, and probably better than the majority of outdoor events I attend. Personally I take my own food, but have had no complaints when I have eaten on site.

[Alfisti]

I have been to Spa, Monza, Montreal and Melbourb\ne and all bar melbourne are EXACTLY the same.

The worst thing about Silverstone is that the facilities and organisation remains a joke.

Even at the World series event, with 70,000 people turning up they tried to force everyone into accessing the place via a couple of tiny country lanes rather than the proper access roads and it was a total disaster as usual. The parking is mostly badly kept fields (and they charge insane amounts for it when they possibly can). The food access anywhere except the main straight are a couple of hideous looking burger vans at prices that would make a motorway service station blush, they only built toilets round most of the back of the circuit a few years ago.

The signing is dreadful and the safety at times frightening (a circuit access gate at Stowe was open and unguarded almost all of Sunday's Renault World series program), which was at one point nearly ran through by a kid before their parents finally looked up from their beer and noticed what they were doing and the grandstands are, in the main, STILL not covered.

Which is shame because I want to specifically exclude their experiences people from this, I encountered their services the week before and I couldn't find a bad word to say about the entire day if you paid me.

Bahrain gets a knock or two but at least there I could get a bottle of water without taking out a mortgage, could get food that wasn't deep fried (also at reasonable prices), the car parks were in the same post code as the circuit and were of a surface you could actually take a car on without wondering if your suspension would ever be the same again, kids couldn't wonder onto the circuit, the signs actually pointed towards things, you didn't get to the end of the day to find half the exits locked and they didn't try to route us via Saudi Arabia to get home again.