Which F1 driver is the greatest of all time?
#1
Posted 16 July 2009 - 03:57
For mine, It's got to Brabham with his efforts in designing and constructing his own car to win his third title. The likes of Schumacher etc are obviously very good drivers, but win in their own car they did not.
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#2
Posted 16 July 2009 - 04:21
I don't think that there is and that there will ever be a greatest F1 driver of all times.
You can't compare: different times, different cars and tracks, different stories, not all of them glorious - but they did their job.
(I think that "Gilles Villenueve" is not the correct spelling.)
#3
Posted 16 July 2009 - 04:34
#4
Posted 16 July 2009 - 05:01
Edited by Megane, 16 July 2009 - 05:13.
#5
Posted 16 July 2009 - 05:08
#6
Posted 16 July 2009 - 05:12
#7
Posted 16 July 2009 - 05:30
Schumacher was also an outstanding driver but in my opinion he did not have serious competition during most of his career.
So I give my vote to Prost.
#8
Posted 16 July 2009 - 05:32
Edited by engel, 16 July 2009 - 05:32.
#9
Posted 16 July 2009 - 06:45
#10
Posted 16 July 2009 - 07:01
#11
Posted 16 July 2009 - 07:20
gr.Jeroen
Edited by JdB, 16 July 2009 - 07:20.
#12
Posted 16 July 2009 - 07:21
Definitely not Senna anyway. He was way too egotistical, which is a major flaw in any drivers makeup. There is a big difference between stroking your ego and being highly competitive.
Edited by ex Rhodie racer, 16 July 2009 - 07:30.
#13
Posted 16 July 2009 - 08:19
I don't know myself really, but there's a guy who beat the legendary Schumacher in Ferrari twice to become the youngest ever champion, came from a small non-F1 country and did it all mostly by himself to impress me immensly.
A few more championships and I might well give Alonso the nod.
Edited by Velocifer, 16 July 2009 - 08:20.
#14
Posted 16 July 2009 - 08:20
All drivers with at least two titles have been listed,
Stewart?
#15
Posted 16 July 2009 - 10:10
#16
Posted 16 July 2009 - 11:20
#17
Posted 16 July 2009 - 12:04
why? why not?
#18
Posted 16 July 2009 - 12:36
To me , there is no "greatest" (perhaps we should try "tallest" next time lol), every era has his own greats, and this is how they should be judged. The cars have changed too much to consider 1 driver "the best". The drivers i've seen are Senna, Prost and Schumacher. But before them there were loads of great drivers we haven't even seen, and their achievements were equally great, if not greater then my "heroes".
gr.Jeroen
To be fair, the greatest ever thread is always going to happen, because every year new f1 fans are turned to the sport, and they know very little sometimes about the details of Senna, Schumacher and Prost, they will look at some stats, but they'll won't know what made Schumacher special and Senna etc
Us vetrans have sat through books worth of posts, and even though I'lve felt I'VE written the same stuff over and over again, you always have new fans learning the game, and I remember many many years ago, where I was discovering f1 and the history, it takes a while, it's strange to think new fans for me, haven't seen perhaps Schumacher and Hakkinen battles, or Senna/Prost and Mansell, but it does suck we humans have to age, can't believe Senna died like 15 years ago, still feels fresh in my memories as dark as the day was, somethings for some fans will always remain fresh, no matter how many years go by.
Let's see. Handsome, charismatic devils who died behind the wheel or crooked faced, uncharismatic people who we had to see get older? Hm, I have no idea how people will vote on that one.. ;)
I don't know myself really, but there's a guy who beat the legendary Schumacher in Ferrari twice to become the youngest ever champion, came from a small non-F1 country and did it all mostly by himself to impress me immensly.
A few more championships and I might well give Alonso the nod.
I'm not sure what Alonso could of done to beat Schumacher in 2004, and what Schumacher could of done to beat Alonso in 2005, it was out of both driver's hands, the car had too much influence, add the tyres as well, it's not a way to compare the two. Problem is/car/driver package flows up and down on some tracks, it's easy to count up the points at the end of the season, and say this guy was better, but that doesn't explain why people thought Schumacher was the best in 1996/97/98/99, even if he didn't get his hands on the title, because his name was being put forward as much as ferrari, as they know Schumacher was clearly a man on fire with a mission in life to win a title with ferrari, was he same guy after 2000? The same fire, maybe not, but also f1 was not the same as well, Schumacher adapted through the f1 rules and was a main contender, he was consiistent for 16 years, it's not just the titles, you have to add up the 2nd places and runner up positions in relation to everything else. Apart from all that, he wasn't just a driver, perhaps moved the game forward into a territory others have not quited reached, that is acting like a team captain and someone who could manage a team without maybe having the title, he was clever that way, it all addes up.
Schumacher was kinda like the Roger Federer of f1, prepared, professional and didn't sweat coming out from a car from Monaco after long hot race, in terms of overall race pace start from finish, and maximisation to pitstop entry, inlaps and outlaps, the amount of races michael won having to do super quick lap times when he needed too, those are the mark of a champion as much as Federer always having a ace when he needs it, you get the impression Michael had that little bit extra on many occassions, reference Imola 2006, where many expected Alonso to win, but Michael produced some of the best inlaps he's reknowned for, despite on shot tyres, the car wasn't going to win with any other driver, even Pat Symonds said "Michael's inlaps were amazing": The word amazing is what many have said regarding some of Michael's best races.
I think best drivers leave a impression that is more then their stats, everything must be viewed with a pinch of salt and look at whole careers
Edited by SeanValen, 16 July 2009 - 12:44.
#19
Posted 16 July 2009 - 12:42
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#20
Posted 16 July 2009 - 12:50
#21
Posted 16 July 2009 - 12:53
He also never faced a strong teammate.
And lastly he was the greatest cheat ever in formula one.
He was very fast though and one of the most competitive drivers out there .
My vote goes to Senna. What a driver he was.
#22
Posted 16 July 2009 - 12:57
Most analysts and fans consider Senna and Fangio as the greatest of all time. /thread
The sad thing is, alot of new fans won't ever have seen Senna turn a wheel live, or Fangio, and shockingly, even Schumacher, as the years pass by, who knows if we''ll be lucky to watch drivers with that feeling of greatness and masters of the game. There's nothing like having watched most of the laps they turned live with the suspense of the results and outcomes not done yet.
Watching Senna and Schumacher, a combined total of 26 years of f1 seasons, I am one lucky fan. My only regret and I'll never totally get over it, was Imola 1994, to have Senna and Schumacher competing with each other, it was gonna be monumental battles, but f1 had been lucky for a while, safety caught up with us, and took away the fight I would of enjoyed the most out of any sporting contest ever! f1 had everything, life, death, passion, it was a gladitorial rome collsium, now what you got, fuel qualifying and butchered tracks, still good, still watchable, but compared to 20th century f1, it's another world. the tragic nature of f1, everything changes, but always for the better.
#23
Posted 16 July 2009 - 12:58
I guess I'll have to say Michael Schumacher, even though I liked Senna the best. What Schumacher the driver did for Ferrari the team will probably never be repeated.
#24
Posted 16 July 2009 - 13:07
M. Schumacher is just the best athlete who's contract happened to include driving around in circles for a few weekends of the year.
#25
Posted 16 July 2009 - 13:08
MS had the best car for most of his career. Button would have done the same in that ferrari as backed up by Brawn's early domination this year.
f1 racing award gave Mclaren car of the year in 2000, hooked up with the kerbs better, didn't eat the tyres as much as the ferrari, infact the ferrari only really got on terms with the mclaren at Monza 2000, then Michael run away with it, but still had to push. The ferrari was eating its tyres more most of the season before that.
Michael got the best car in 2002 and 2004 for most of those season's races.
2003, Michael didn't win as many races, tyre wars, Michael's car at france was on the wrong tyres to win the race, michelin were the tyres to have, yet Michael still got on the podium, his 3rd place there was amongst one of his best performances, thanks to his set up skills and maximisation of sector 1, MICHAEL HAS WON FRANCE 8 TIMES, he's the best there, even when the renaults, mclarens and williams were on the tyres to have that weekend, don't give that MS has the best car for most of his career nonsense lol When you think he needed a point at Japan at the end of the season, races like France 2003 show why his ability to get results in tough races sometimes elevated his campaigns to that extra mark to win. The Williams, Renaults and Mclarens in 2003 were strong at certain races, it was one of those seasons where Michael was hunting while being the hunted at other races.
2001, a Williams track, williams expected to win, Michaell\s overall consistency throughout the race, text book.
2001 Canada, williams expected to win, Michael's inlaps were like Imola 2006 to outflank Alonso, were amazing again, the guy had speed in inlaps and outlaps, this is the area Schumacher mastered and had extra, he could find time if he was in a actual tough contest, he did it enough times in important races, and rarely overdrived, his consistency in this area defined alot of his best stuff. Technically, he was on 2 levels, like he could drive very fast, but he had the too fast option, where he digged deep for extra time to shave off some centimetres off the racing line to find that those extra tenths, like Federer having a fast 2nd serve in Tennis, Schumacher had some reserves he could call for, it was apart of his plan for some weekends, alot of drivers look very good, very fast, but what made the difference is getting the inlaps done when needed.
It's the races Michael won, and the performances Michael did when many expected him not to achieve, are the tests of a great, as much as delivering in the best car such as 2002. This carves out the legend, if anyone brought that f1 racing mag, 10 or 20 drives drives of a racing genius, it pretty much covered his best stuff.
Edited by SeanValen, 16 July 2009 - 13:21.
#26
Posted 16 July 2009 - 13:20
#27
Posted 16 July 2009 - 13:27
2005 average car, average results. You can't really credit his US win to his name nor those points for that matter.
2006 equal car, is some races better car that Renault and he lost to Alonso.
Its obvious that most of his titles/wins were a result of his great car and a number 2 driver as teammate.
Oh and Senna WON MONACO SIX TIMES and he had a shorter career than MS.. SIX TIMES AT MONACO which is the most technical circuit for a driver not France..
Edited by BMW_F1, 16 July 2009 - 13:54.
#28
Posted 16 July 2009 - 13:38
Many still consider him [FANGIO] to be the greatest driver of all time.
According to the official Formula One website, he is "statistically the greatest driver the sport has ever seen" (SCHUMACHER)
These quotes are from Wikipedia. Interesting how Fangio and Senna got "best of all time" mentions but not Schumacher.
#29
Posted 16 July 2009 - 13:44
#30
Posted 16 July 2009 - 14:14
Senna is regarded as one of the greatest drivers in the history of Formula One.
Many still consider him [FANGIO] to be the greatest driver of all time.
According to the official Formula One website, he is "statistically the greatest driver the sport has ever seen" (SCHUMACHER)
These quotes are from Wikipedia. Interesting how Fangio and Senna got "best of all time" mentions but not Schumacher.
Some would say it has something to do that MS is still alive while the other two...
#31
Posted 16 July 2009 - 14:22
My vote goes to Senna. What a driver he was.
me too. Plus Senna almost always had inferior equipment compared to his rivals.
Edited by Kooper, 16 July 2009 - 14:22.
#32
Posted 16 July 2009 - 14:30
#33
Posted 16 July 2009 - 14:30
Oh, in that case it is unquestionably true. Only an idiot would question the internet bible, wikipoopoo.These quotes are from Wikipedia. Interesting how Fangio and Senna got "best of all time" mentions but not Schumacher.
Jimisgod, you could well have a point regarding Clarkie, but the tree´s in Hockenheim are definitely not pines.;)
Edited by ex Rhodie racer, 16 July 2009 - 14:31.
#34
Posted 16 July 2009 - 14:32
#35
Posted 16 July 2009 - 14:34
#36
Posted 16 July 2009 - 14:50
Did you mean which F1 driver is the greatest within F1 or a F1 driver who is the greatest of all time?
Mario Andretti is obviously "the F1 driver who is the greatest of all time" but not in F1 alone of course.
Since MS will win the vote anyway as he is the greatest F1 driver of all time simply because he has won more than a staggering 10% of all GP's ever run in the whole history of GP's I would like to add a special mention to one driver....
Since he won't get many votes, Nelson Piquet will not finish as high as he should yet the Guy won 3 WDC's in completely and vastly different era's - Ground Effects, Turbo and Electronics against simply the best other drivers that F1 could serve up - I don't think theres another F1 driver that has this broad achievment to boast.
#37
Posted 16 July 2009 - 14:56
#38
Posted 16 July 2009 - 14:59
Poor Prost. He gets no credit for what he has achieved.
its his nose
#39
Posted 16 July 2009 - 15:40
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#40
Posted 16 July 2009 - 15:46
Oh, in that case it is unquestionably true. Only an idiot would question the internet bible, wikipoopoo.
Agree. While Wikipedia is nice, just don't trust it completely...
#41
Posted 16 July 2009 - 15:57
Michael Schumacher 7 x WDC
Alain Prost 4 x WDC
7wdc , enough said
Poor Prost. He gets no credit for what he has achieved.
Perception is a bitch, isn't it?
I've voted for Senna, but I have a (really) difficult time to understand why someone would prefer Schummy instead of Prost. Not to mention Fangio.
Because if someone would only consider WDC's, Prost would be the natural choice, based on the list of drivers that he had competed against, in a much more aggressive and demanding enviroment.
The frenchman outclassed those following team-mates: Arnoux, Cheever, Lauda, K. Rosberg, Johansson, Senna, Mansell, Alesi and Hill.
If consistency is the criteria, again Prost is the one to go.
Aggressive drive style? There was once a certain Ayrton Senna, even more dangerous than MS.
Set up abilities? Piquet Snr (for the brazilians, arguably the best brazilian driver) and many others.
Anyway, it's a personal thing.
• • •
Another driver who doesn't get enought credit is Emerson Fittipaldi. 2xWDC and 2xrunner-up in 6 seasons, being the youngest WDC until Fernando Alonso.
Then in hist 7th season, the first Brazilian to become a WDC, choses to join his older brother at the Brazilian based Fittipaldi Automotive where his best result was a third place in 1980.
Edited by highdownforce, 16 July 2009 - 19:21.
#42
Posted 16 July 2009 - 16:08
7wdc , enough said
Very true.
Sampras before Federer, Federer (hoping Nadal will beat it soon), Jack Nicklaus (Woods is coming), Michael Schumacher and a few selected sportsmen are well acknowledge as the greatest in their field because they had been utterly dominant.
Unlike in F1, I don't find any unreasonable claims amongst Tennis fans that Boris Becker, a 3-times Wimbledon Champion, is greater than Pete Sampras, a 7-times Wimbledon Champion, for example.
#43
Posted 16 July 2009 - 16:14
#44
Posted 16 July 2009 - 16:19
If the number of WDCs is the only thing people would go by then Damon Hill and Kimi Raikkonen are at the same level..
Well...
Both will be remembered as a small chapter in the history of F1, not more.
#45
Posted 16 July 2009 - 16:26
Well...
Both will be remembered as a small chapter in the history of F1, not more.
true but that does not mean that one cannot form an opinion on who was better between these two simply because they each had one WDC.
statistical bookworms are those who look at the number of X to determine who is better.. There are more valid cases of why MS was to some the greatest driver then the 7 WDCs.
#46
Posted 16 July 2009 - 16:28
#47
Posted 16 July 2009 - 16:33
Best - Stirling Moss
As for the 7xWDC stuff Crazy Frog has had more #1's than Led Zeppelin does that make Crazy Frog a better recording artist ?
#48
Posted 16 July 2009 - 16:35
If the number of WDCs is the only thing people would go by then Damon Hill and Kimi Raikkonen are at the same level..
Also Jim Clarck and Fernando Alonso.
#49
Posted 16 July 2009 - 16:36
Edited by MegaManson, 16 July 2009 - 16:37.
#50
Posted 16 July 2009 - 16:38