303 replies to this topic

[Fabs]

Reginaldo Leme, the brazilian journalist that was the first one to say that there was an FIA investigation going on and that was about Renault and Singapore 2008, has hinted there might be some more to be investigated..

He didnt say it clearly.. but he suggested that McLaren kind of gave away the 2007 WDC as a way of paying the 100m fine and not being banned from the sport.

In this case, Hamilton's error in Brazil 07 would be a form of allowing Ferrari's to get the title and giving the championship to a non-cheating team.

I dont know if any conspiracy like this was discussed here at the time.

But I remember thinking about that. If they had disqualified McLaren and Raikkonen finishes first but with less points, it would seem he wasnt a worth champion, because he only won because of disqualification.

If they didnt disqualify and Hamilton (Or Alonso) had won, the champion would also seem not legitimate because they won using Ferrari's IP and Hamilton would be labeled as a cheater champion forever and it would send the message that cheating, getting IP and paying a huge fine could be a reasonable way of getting a championship.

So the perfect solution was to let Ferrari to win it ON THE TRACK. and that was what happened.... the only scenario with a legitimate champion...

Any chanceS?

[primer]

Sounds very reasonable.

[peroa]

Heh, that would be hardly surprising, now would it ...

[Lazarus II]

Very believable, but will never see the light of day as the FIA would be at the center.

[Birelman]

Oh dear

[Galko877]

So Hamilton is on the verge of making history by becoming the youngest WDC and the first rookie WDC ever but he gives it up voluntarily? Yeah, right, he is that kind of person, always putting his team's wishes in front of his own ego (see Hungary 2007).

[ZenSpeed]

Reginaldo Leme, the brazilian journalist that was the first one to say that there was an FIA investigation going on and that was about Renault and Singapore 2008, has hinted there might be some more to be investigated..

He didnt say it clearly.. but he suggested that McLaren kind of gave away the 2007 WDC as a way of paying the 100m fine and not being banned from the sport.

In this case, Hamilton's error in Brazil 07 would be a form of allowing Ferrari's to get the title and giving the championship to a non-cheating team.

I dont know if any conspiracy like this was discussed here at the time.

But I remember thinking about that. If they had disqualified McLaren and Raikkonen finishes first but with less points, it would seem he wasnt a worth champion, because he only won because of disqualification.

If they didnt disqualify and Hamilton (Or Alonso) had won, the champion would also seem not legitimate because they won using Ferrari's IP and Hamilton would be labeled as a cheater champion forever and it would send the message that cheating, getting IP and paying a huge fine could be a reasonable way of getting a championship.

So the perfect solution was to let Ferrari to win it ON THE TRACK. and that was what happened.... the only scenario with a legitimate champion...

Any chanceS?

Sounds so idiotic.

[Pharazon]

no chance with that one

[peroa]

So Hamilton is on the verge of making history by becoming the youngest WDC and the first rookie WDC ever but he gives it up voluntarily? Yeah, right, he is that kind of person, always putting his team's wishes in front of his own ego (see Hungary 2007).

Huh, sure doesn't look voluntarily to me though ...

[Julli]

Before 2007 I would have said that you are paranoid, but the scandals after has turned me into a cynic as long as F1 is involved, so I have to say that it's possible, eventhough I really hope this is just sensationalism.
Julli

[SpeedFanatic]

Sounds so idiotic.

+100

[peroa]

no chance with that one

Why?
Maybe the FIA guy in the McLaren pits in Brazil wasn't there to oversee FA's car but to make sure he "reminds" them to not win it.

Lose it or be banned. It fits perfectly, LH's SW glitch and FA's "uninspired" performance.

[DLaw]

Oh Please don't...........

[hunnylander]

The Pact

[raiseyourfistfor]

Wouldn't suprise me, typical Ferrari favoritism

[pgj]

I doubt it.

Even if it is true, let's leave it where it is. Max will soon be gone and there is the possibility that a new broom will sweeten the smell around the FIA. Let Max take this one with him.

If there is any possibility that this is true, Flav may throw some money at it in a bid to get even with Max.

[umapathypon]

I doubt it.

Even if it is true, let's leave it where it is. Max will soon be gone and there is the possibility that a new broom will sweeten the smell around the FIA. Let Max take this one with him.

If there is any possibility that this is true, Flav may throw some money at it in a bid to get even with Max.

Too many things about Spygate have been covered up quite clearly. I am quite sure that we'll be hearing about those in the future.

[harsha]

This makes perfect sense now. Thanks for connecting all the dots to us now.


For ****s sake, get a grip guys!

[fed up]

I've been arguing this for 2 years.

- It was virtually impossible that Ferrari would accept a WDC from a team that had been found guilty of cloning their car
- The team were banned but the drivers were free to contest the wdc - why? for the show
- Hamilton's car was disabled for a sufficient time to allow Kimi to get away - Nando performance in the race was also well below par

At the end of the day a Hamilton WDC would have embroiled the sport in lengthy court cases as Ferrari would have taken it that far. As it was the public got the show down they wanted and Ferrari got the right result.

Simples

[RiDE]

Nice try... lol

If the unlikely possibility that Lewis would've agreed to such a plan, I don't think Anthony Hamilton would've let his son stay at McLaren for another day after that.

[Buckethead]

This makes sence. Kimi would not have beaten Lewis and Fernando fair and square

[Oho]

Brazilian journalist, oh what a surprise...

[LB]

Ooooo we can add to this one. as a reward for 2007, the FIA gifted Hamilton the 2008 championship by telling Glock to slow down ;)

[jps]

He didnt say it clearly.. but he suggested that McLaren kind of gave away the 2007 WDC as a way of paying the 100m fine and not being banned from the sport.

In this case, Hamilton's error in Brazil 07 would be a form of allowing Ferrari's to get the title and giving the championship to a non-cheating team.


Any chanceS?

FIAs sanctions were made in September. Brazil GP was in October.
What FIA could have done if Alonso or Hamilton won WDC there? Say that result can't be accepted, cause FIA makes race-fixing?

Disqualify Alonso or Hamilton?

Ban McLaren because driver didnt accept teamorders to drive position not enough for tittle?

[Stefanaus]

He didnt say it clearly.. but he suggested that McLaren kind of gave away the 2007 WDC as a way of paying the 100m fine and not being banned from the sport.

that's exactly what happened. that is what i have said in my own article. we heard they got fined. never heard them paying it. at the end of the day, they were excluded from the constructors championship, hence that is a hefty fine itself.. which i think is a fair compromise

[raiseyourfistfor]

LOL at people saying that mclaren "cloned" the ferrari

it was just some measurements that were already outdated by the time mclaren learned about them, brosefs

[undersquare]

Have to say, Hamilton was on course to get back up to the 5th place he needed, after the gearbox fault, but then the team put him on that short 2nd stint on the options. That was always a really stinking strategy call, the supersofts in that heat obviously needed to be used on the last stint when the track was as rubbered in as possible. I always put it down to Ron's desperation to beat Max and win, but...

F1 these days, nothing is impossible .

[Clatter]

What a load of rubbish.

Has everyone forgotton about the cool fuel teams that should have rightly been DQ'd at the last race.? Mac. took that to appeal. Why would a team that was trying to give the championship away go to appeal?

[umapathypon]

What a load of rubbish.

Has everyone forgotton about the cool fuel teams that should have rightly been DQ'd at the last race.? Mac. took that to appeal. Why would a team that was trying to give the championship away go to appeal?

Maybe for appearances sake..

I am not saying this is true or not..But given whats been happening in f1 for the past 2,3 yrs,it is within the realms of possibility.

[Buckethead]

Kimi Raikkonen, cheating bastard!! What a disgrace!!11 He must of know it! He lost to a rookie!! Ban him for life! Oops wait, this isn't about Alonso, sorry.

[airwise]

All I've always thought is I've never seen a car cut out for 30 seconds during a race before of since.

Not saying it hasn't happened but I've not seen it. Maybe someone else has?

[LuckyStrike1]

Sounds so idiotic.

Yes, it does. Sounds like the FIA-president getting exposed paying prostitutes for S/M wiht Nazi themes or like Renault ordering Piquet Jr to crash deliberately to cause a SC they could benefit from and get Alonso a win.

Completely stupid.

[Pegaso]

Don't know about their nº1 driver but they certainly made sure that their nº2 driver didn't have any chance to win anything that day. Maybe the championship for the slower car ever seen in a last race driven by a WDC contender.

Because well, if they were able to "sabotage" their golden boy, their favourite driver, what they wouldn't do to his other driver.....

[fed up]

What a load of rubbish.

Has everyone forgotton about the cool fuel teams that should have rightly been DQ'd at the last race.? Mac. took that to appeal. Why would a team that was trying to give the championship away go to appeal?

That was the ruse. It diverted attention from what actually happened in the race. F1 is about smokescreens and agendas - the cool fuel gave hope to Hamilton (even though the appeal was ruled inadmissible) and stopped people discussing that ridiculous race.

You have to ask yourself a simple question;

How can the Mclaren be ruled illegal by the WMSC yet one of their drivers wins the WDC in the same car. Hell would have to have frozen over for LDM/JT to allow that to happen.

Simples

[SpeedFanatic]

Ooooo we can add to this one. as a reward for 2007, the FIA gifted Hamilton the 2008 championship by telling Glock to slow down ;)

Touché.

[Clatter]

That was the ruse. It diverted attention from what actually happened in the race. F1 is about smokescreens and agendas - the cool fuel gave hope to Hamilton (even though the appeal was ruled inadmissible) and stopped people discussing that ridiculous race.

You have to ask yourself a simple question;

How can the Mclaren be ruled illegal by the WMSC yet one of their drivers wins the WDC in the same car. Hell would have to have frozen over for LDM/JT to allow that to happen.

Simples

The car wasn't ruled illegal. It was inspected and no Ferrari IP was deemed to be in use.

[fed up]

Don't know about their nº1 driver but they certainly made sure that their nº2 driver didn't have any chance to win anything that day. Maybe the championship for the slower car ever seen in a last race driven by a WDC contender.

Because well, if they were able to "sabotage" their golden boy, their favourite driver, what they wouldn't do to his other driver.....

Neither driver had a chance. Kimi was always going to win that race.

The scrutineer and all that b@llocks again diverted attention - Nando's performance was woeful yet he was celebrating with the ferrari drivers on the podium - work that one out

[pRy]

As crazy as such a theory sounds, that cut out at the start of the race for Lewis was very odd at the time and never did seem to be explained properly.

[Supersleeper]

that is what i have said in my own article. we heard they got fined. never heard them paying it.

..from the 2007 McLaren Company accounts.

Profit and loss account

Exceptional item (Note 3) (37,690,000)

Notes
3

The FIA, at a meeting on 13 September imposed sanctions on the McLaren Racing Team. These sanctions will result in etc. etc.

At the balance sheet date $50m had been paid, with a further 13.5m being paid in April 2008. The balancing payment is expected to be made in April 2009. The exceptional item also includes costs associated with the sanctions

...hope they haven't lied to the British Government as well.

[patreze]

so Glock_hamilton 08 at Interlagos was a payback

[Orin]

Reginaldo Leme, the brazilian journalist that was the first one to say that there was an FIA investigation going on and that was about Renault and Singapore 2008, has hinted there might be some more to be investigated..

He didnt say it clearly.. but he suggested that McLaren kind of gave away the 2007 WDC as a way of paying the 100m fine and not being banned from the sport.

In this case, Hamilton's error in Brazil 07 would be a form of allowing Ferrari's to get the title and giving the championship to a non-cheating team.

I dont know if any conspiracy like this was discussed here at the time.

But I remember thinking about that. If they had disqualified McLaren and Raikkonen finishes first but with less points, it would seem he wasnt a worth champion, because he only won because of disqualification.

If they didnt disqualify and Hamilton (Or Alonso) had won, the champion would also seem not legitimate because they won using Ferrari's IP and Hamilton would be labeled as a cheater champion forever and it would send the message that cheating, getting IP and paying a huge fine could be a reasonable way of getting a championship.

So the perfect solution was to let Ferrari to win it ON THE TRACK. and that was what happened.... the only scenario with a legitimate champion...

Any chanceS?

I don't believe it. Alonso was still in the chase and would not have sacrificed his championship for McLaren. He had an FIA observer to ensure that his car wasn't tampered with.

[Colombo]

Reginaldo Leme, the brazilian journalist that was the first one to say that there was an FIA investigation going on and that was about Renault and Singapore 2008, has hinted there might be some more to be investigated..

He didnt say it clearly.. but he suggested that McLaren kind of gave away the 2007 WDC as a way of paying the 100m fine and not being banned from the sport.

In this case, Hamilton's error in Brazil 07 would be a form of allowing Ferrari's to get the title and giving the championship to a non-cheating team.

I dont know if any conspiracy like this was discussed here at the time.

But I remember thinking about that. If they had disqualified McLaren and Raikkonen finishes first but with less points, it would seem he wasnt a worth champion, because he only won because of disqualification.

If they didnt disqualify and Hamilton (Or Alonso) had won, the champion would also seem not legitimate because they won using Ferrari's IP and Hamilton would be labeled as a cheater champion forever and it would send the message that cheating, getting IP and paying a huge fine could be a reasonable way of getting a championship.

So the perfect solution was to let Ferrari to win it ON THE TRACK. and that was what happened.... the only scenario with a legitimate champion...

Any chanceS?

Finally somebody saying it!!!!!!!!

I was ridiculed on this forum by Räikkönen fans when I suggested this idea, but for me this is the most obvious thing in the world. There was no way FIA was to let McLaren win any title in a season when they were found guilty for espionage against their very main competitors.
Räikkönen's WDC was merely gifted to him on a silver platter, he never won it. Even with all the gifts (I would say China as well as Brazil), he barely won. What a pity that his car didn't break down in Brazil....

GC

Edited by Colombo, 22 September 2009 - 07:43.

[Colombo]

so Glock_hamilton 08 at Interlagos was a payback

It may well be. This way Hamilton got his title. The pity is that the wrong Ferrari driver became the WDC in the process. Räikkönen never deserved it but got it, Massa deserved it but came out without it.

Well, let's hope the full story comes out as soon as possible.

GC

Edited by Colombo, 22 September 2009 - 07:41.

[pgj]

Dream on.

[Italiano Tifoso]

Interesting and if this was done by the FIA i applaud them as they were looking after the interests of F1. It would have been far easier to simply ban McLaren from taking any further part in the championship and disqualifying them for the year. That would have been worse than the fine for both F1 and McLaren.

If Lewis had won, it would have been a tainted victory, as clearly Mclaren received some advantage through the year even if they only knew what laps the Ferrari's would pit on and gleaned this from a mole inside Ferrari. I can think of a handful of early races in 2007 where McLaren won through pit strategy alone against Ferrari.

I must admit, i didn't think it was suspicious when Lewis got a bag full of neutrals, i just thought it was Karma.

Kimi was by far the more deserving champion that year, he kept his head down and got on with the job of winning races.

In any case, it takes more than a bag of neutrals to decide a championship, i seem to recall a pretty tight start into the first corner and the first lap for tht matter where anything could have happened. F1 is not like horse racing, it is a lot harder to fix races in F1, although not impossible.

[Colombo]

Kimi was by far the more deserving champion that year, he kept his head down and got on with the job of winning races.

You mean, Kimi was gifted race wins, not just by McLaren but by his teammate as well.
The only official but absolutely non-deserving "champion" in history. I already mentioned that my SQL database with all the results of all the races has a void in place of the 2007 WDC, I'm glad my decision got more arguments and substance.

GC

[Italiano Tifoso]

You mean, Kimi was gifted race wins, not just by McLaren but by his teammate as well.
The only official but absolutely non-deserving "champion" in history. I already mentioned that my SQL database with all the results of all the races has a void in place of the 2007 WDC, I'm glad my decision got more arguments and substance.

GC

Somehow i don't think your database will be used as a ready reference for people seeking data on F1 champions.

2007 is finished, move on. End of the day a guy who didn't get caught up in internal politics and whose team did not cheat won the title. If Lewis had won or Mclaren had won the WCC on points (which they did not anyway, even if they were not disqualified) it would have been seen as an ill deserved title. The evidence against them was damning.

Unless someone can prove the McLaren mechanics intentionally fouled Lewis' car then this conspiracy will have no legs. End of the day, Kimi managed in his first year in a Ferrari what he couldn't achieve for years in a McLaren. That's how i will always remember 2007, and i know from Ron's face in Brazil that that is what was on his mind the moment Kimi crossed the line.
A very sweet victory indeed.

[hedges]

You mean, Kimi was gifted race wins, not just by McLaren but by his teammate as well.
The only official but absolutely non-deserving "champion" in history. I already mentioned that my SQL database with all the results of all the races has a void in place of the 2007 WDC, I'm glad my decision got more arguments and substance.

GC

Wow, that is kind of sad, what is the point of collecting stats just to make any use of them invalid from the get go.

[ensign14]

So Hamilton is on the verge of making history by becoming the youngest WDC and the first rookie WDC ever but he gives it up voluntarily? Yeah, right, he is that kind of person, always putting his team's wishes in front of his own ego (see Hungary 2007).

That's the point. He didn't give it up voluntarily. So Max borrowed Schumi's Kimikiller button and kiboshed the electronics for 30 seconds.

[CaptainJackSparrow]

The sad thing is, F1 is in such a state now that you couldn't even rule this out. I mean who knows.

What a shambles.