40 replies to this topic

[Liuggi]

Seriously?

Can't believe that some people supported this guy with his awful campaign over one of the most successful motorsport bosses of all time!!!!???

It's great news that a man as clever and as capable as Jean is the new president, and may he serve for many glorious years.

[Ivan]

Y did you create a new thread for this?

[Orges Dushku]

I can see where this is going ;)

[jonpollak]

Please read the following...

As Ferrari team boss for 15 years, the Frenchman was an incredibly divisive figure in the F1 paddock, ruthlessly pursuing his team's aims with no regard for what effect it was having on the wider sport.

Todt is inextricably bound to the controversies and questionable ethics of the Michael Schumacher era at Ferrari. He is notorious for his bulldozing manner and ruthlessness, and his marshalling of a team renowned for bending the rules to breaking point and beyond.


Jp

[Kooper]

Please read the following...

As Ferrari team boss for 15 years, the Frenchman was an incredibly divisive figure in the F1 paddock, ruthlessly pursuing his team's aims with no regard for what effect it was having on the wider sport.

Todt is inextricably bound to the controversies and questionable ethics of the Michael Schumacher era at Ferrari. He is notorious for his bulldozing manner and ruthlessness, and his marshalling of a team renowned for bending the rules to breaking point and beyond.


Jp

Thanks jp for saving me the typing!

[GeorgeTheCar]

Let's see

Intelligent

Principled

Passion for the sport

[jez6363]

Seriously?

Can't believe that some people supported this guy with his awful campaign over one of the most successful motorsport bosses of all time!!!!???

It's great news that a man as clever and as capable as Jean is the new president, and may he serve for many glorious years.

Within 2 years you will be eating those words.
We needed (and still need) someone who is a listener and bridge builder, not a dominator and bulldozer (which is perfect for a team boss, just not at all right for the FIA boss).

Edited by jez6363, 24 October 2009 - 01:17.

[EVL29]

Seriously?

Can't believe that some people supported this guy with his awful campaign over one of the most successful motorsport bosses of all time!!!!???

It's great news that a man as clever and as capable as Jean is the new president, and may he serve for many glorious years.

[slurp slurp]

[LB]

Lets put it this way: with Jean Todt as president I no longer have any faith in the impartiality of the FIA not that I had that much under Max. I simply cannot think of a worse person to be in charge! I'd take a board of Mugabe, Hitler, Pol Pot and Idi Amin over him ! The sport is going to be a complete sham now. Horrible horrible result brought about by self interest and backstabbing that will drag F1 back to the dark ages.

Edited by LB, 24 October 2009 - 01:41.

[se7en_24]

I no longer have any faith in the impartiality of the FIA.

I'm amazed you ever had any faith! This Todt handover was on the cards and heavily reported long back into his Ferrari tenure.

The FIA have no shame, they don't care what anyone thinks apart from Max.

[LB]

I'm amazed you ever had any faith! This Todt handover was on the cards and heavily reported long back into his Ferrari tenure.

The FIA have no shame, they don't care what anyone thinks apart from Max.

post editted ;)

[Supersleeper]

The thread is quite right.

The only canditate that has a hope of being elected president of the FIA is someone who is quite aware that greasing people palms and ensuring their comfort are guarantees of a vote. To that end Ari was quite niave to think that as a principled individual he was ever going to attract the interest of pigs who have their snouts firmly in the trough.
Introducing integrity into the FIA was never going to be the basis of a victory by Vatinen. Hookers, cash and personal favours seem to be the way it's done these days.

[Radoye]

With Todt taking over there will be no change whatsoever - he's just a puppet and Max will continue pulling the strings.

Who liked Max will love Todt.

Edited by Radoye, 24 October 2009 - 02:27.

[JacnGille]

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

[Sakae]

Please read the following...

As Ferrari team boss for 15 years, the Frenchman was an incredibly divisive figure in the F1 paddock, ruthlessly pursuing his team's aims with no regard for what effect it was having on the wider sport.

Todt is inextricably bound to the controversies and questionable ethics of the Michael Schumacher era at Ferrari. He is notorious for his bulldozing manner and ruthlessness, and his marshalling of a team renowned for bending the rules to breaking point and beyond.


Jp

Jon, despite the article which you are quoting (for benefit of another poster), but what degree of truth is in it? Some, nothing, all...? Over the years I see nationalistic interests blossoming every day around this sport. It's all about "we are better than you". Nature of the sport, nature of the attitutes of people in it. Clash of cultures is commonplace, which doesn't mean however that other than my team everybody else is a criminal. If some people wanted a Saint, then this BB should have voted for the Holly Sea, instead normal mortal.

Yeah, this thread title it is little divisive and unnecessary, but there is still a lot of steam on this BB before we all take deep breath, and try to start all over again. Todt has it right; it's time to heal, and move on. Election is over, and it shall be counterproductive to engage in mud slinging until next one.

Edited by Gilles4Ever, 24 October 2009 - 07:30.
Edited Quote

[christoff]

Here's hoping and praying that now JT has the power he proves himself to be independent of MM etc, ignores political agendas and does what needs to be done.
Fingers crossed but not holding my breath.

[ensign14]

Lets put it this way: with Jean Todt as president I no longer have any faith in the impartiality of the FIA not that I had that much under Max.

I actually have more, on the basis that Todt was a prostitute for Ferrari and did whatever was necessary to keep the Red Tide on top, and now his loyalty lies elsewhere. He might want deliberatel to distance himself from the past. One wonders whether the FIA's blatant Ferrari favouritism was to help Todt into the FIA spot, rather than to assist Ferrari per se.

Just ironic that the son of a Fascist is replaced by a Todt.

[Ramses1348]

Let's see

Intelligent

Principled

Passion for the sport

It so sad his campain showed nothing of that, quite the contrary actually...

[meat]

Good for Ferrari, bad for rest

[MegaManson]

He is the greatest sports administrator since Enzo Ferrari maybe even the greatest the sport has seen, incredible success at Peugeot, turned Ferrari from a complete and utter shambles torn apart by internal strife into an incredibly professional and slick multi winning team that has since gone back to shambolic ways since his departure, while CEO of Ferrari road cars he bought increased sales despite the biggest recession since the 30's, everything the guy touches turns to gold and I simply want the best man for the job as opposed to a flaky say anything to be elected weak man like Vatanen

[motorhead]

I could...and I can bring you....

[speedy]

The thread is quite right.

The only canditate that has a hope of being elected president of the FIA is someone who is quite aware that greasing people palms and ensuring their comfort are guarantees of a vote. To that end Ari was quite niave to think that as a principled individual he was ever going to attract the interest of pigs who have their snouts firmly in the trough.
Introducing integrity into the FIA was never going to be the basis of a victory by Vatinen. Hookers, cash and personal favours seem to be the way it's done these days.

[speedy]

He is the greatest sports administrator since Enzo Ferrari maybe even the greatest the sport has seen, incredible success at Peugeot, turned Ferrari from a complete and utter shambles torn apart by internal strife into an incredibly professional and slick multi winning team that has since gone back to shambolic ways since his departure, while CEO of Ferrari road cars he bought increased sales despite the biggest recession since the 30's, everything the guy touches turns to gold and I simply want the best man for the job as opposed to a flaky say anything to be elected weak man like Vatanen

You may call Vatanen anything but weak - just care to dig his history from a close to death accident to a multiple Paris Dakar winner. Ari is still the last man that has won rally wdc with a Ford....there have been many strong men trying to repeat his deed, but they have not been strong enough to do it - that was in 1981...perhaps Mikko can do it, we will see. Coincidentally there are similarities in the current rally wdc fight and the FIA election - sporting values vs politics and team orders. Todt has become famous for his win at any cost tactics - never mind the sporting values mentality. The current rally wdc fight has Mikko the sporting person against Citroen/Loeb team orders points at any cost, never mind the sport attitude. Mikko did not want to win at the cost of his team mate. Now they have asked if he regrets that in case he loses the championship with 1 point, and Mikko said that he has no regrets - he can sleep his nights in peace whatever happens. That's just the difference between Todt world and Vatanen world - ethics and values. The other has them, the other hasn't.

Edited by speedy, 24 October 2009 - 09:08.

[alfista]

Within 2 years you will be eating those words.

I suspect we are not going to wait for so long. How about two weeks? Recalling Max's letter to prince Faisal should we expect life-time bans for "bringing sport into disrepute" to Vatanen and his supporters? Don't forget that Todt called for FIA unity. Ban will do the job, wouldn't it?
Vatanen was extremely brave to raise up against evil and so were the people who supported him. That fact itself gives them a lot of credit. It's like being dissident in Zimbabwe.

Edited by alfista, 24 October 2009 - 09:19.

[MegaManson]

You may call Vatanen anything but weak - just care to dig his history from a close to death accident to a multiple Paris Dakar winner. Ari is still the last man that has won rally wdc with a Ford....there have been many strong men trying to repeat his deed, but they have not been strong enough to do it - that was in 1981...perhaps Mikko can do it, we will see. Coincidentally there are similarities in the current rally wdc fight and the FIA election - sporting values vs politics and team orders. Todt has become famous for his win at any cost tactics - never mind the sporting values mentality. The current rally wdc fight has Mikko the sporting person against Citroen/Loeb team orders points at any cost, never mind the sport attitude. Mikko did not want to win at the cost of his team mate. Now they have asked if he regrets that in case he loses the championship with 1 point, and Mikko said that he has no regrets - he can sleep his nights in peace whatever happens. That's just the difference between Todt world and Vatanen world - ethics and values. The other has them, the other hasn't.

Nice guys finish last, motorsport is and should be a cutthroat dog eat dog world, as should any sport, I don't understand the big deal about team orders tbh, does the fact that Lance Armstrong had a team of "runners" at Postal devalue his Tour De France's ? does Seb Coe and Steve Ovett's achievements count for less as they both employed a "pace setter" who would wear down the opposition and pull out of the race with half a lap to go ? sport is about teamwork so I have no problem with team orders and it doesn't devalue achievements

[meat]

You may call Vatanen anything but weak - just care to dig his history from a close to death accident to a multiple Paris Dakar winner. Ari is still the last man that has won rally wdc with a Ford....there have been many strong men trying to repeat his deed, but they have not been strong enough to do it - that was in 1981...perhaps Mikko can do it, we will see. Coincidentally there are similarities in the current rally wdc fight and the FIA election - sporting values vs politics and team orders. Todt has become famous for his win at any cost tactics - never mind the sporting values mentality. The current rally wdc fight has Mikko the sporting person against Citroen/Loeb team orders points at any cost, never mind the sport attitude. Mikko did not want to win at the cost of his team mate. Now they have asked if he regrets that in case he loses the championship with 1 point, and Mikko said that he has no regrets - he can sleep his nights in peace whatever happens. That's just the difference between Todt world and Vatanen world - ethics and values. The other has them, the other hasn't.

[Sakae]

You may call Vatanen anything but weak - just care to dig his history from a close to death accident to a multiple Paris Dakar winner. Ari is still the last man that has won rally wdc with a Ford....there have been many strong men trying to repeat his deed, but they have not been strong enough to do it - that was in 1981...perhaps Mikko can do it, we will see. Coincidentally there are similarities in the current rally wdc fight and the FIA election - sporting values vs politics and team orders. Todt has become famous for his win at any cost tactics - never mind the sporting values mentality. The current rally wdc fight has Mikko the sporting person against Citroen/Loeb team orders points at any cost, never mind the sport attitude. Mikko did not want to win at the cost of his team mate. Now they have asked if he regrets that in case he loses the championship with 1 point, and Mikko said that he has no regrets - he can sleep his nights in peace whatever happens. That's just the difference between Todt world and Vatanen world - ethics and values. The other has them, the other hasn't.

It takes guts to tell a man that he is unethical and without values. You obviously think that you have those, but then, who is the judge?

[speedy]

It takes guts to tell a man that he is unethical and without values. You obviously think that you have those, but then, who is the judge?

There are different values and ethics - it's up to individuals to choose which ones fit to your own thinking. The world is not perfect and never will be, but we including me have every right to dream of it.

[santori]

The current rally wdc fight has Mikko the sporting person against Citroen/Loeb team orders points at any cost, never mind the sport attitude. Mikko did not want to win at the cost of his team mate. Now they have asked if he regrets that in case he loses the championship with 1 point, and Mikko said that he has no regrets - he can sleep his nights in peace whatever happens. That's just the difference between Todt world and Vatanen world - ethics and values. The other has them, the other hasn't.

Ford and Hirvonen have used team orders several times in their time together. And rightly so.

[The Ragged Edge]

I actually have more, on the basis that Todt was a prostitute for Ferrari and did whatever was necessary to keep the Red Tide on top, and now his loyalty lies elsewhere. He might want deliberatel to distance himself from the past. One wonders whether the FIA's blatant Ferrari favouritism was to help Todt into the FIA spot, rather than to assist Ferrari per se.

Just ironic that the son of a Fascist is replaced by a Todt.

Who really thinks Max Mosleys politics have changed that much? His wifes views, (if close associates are to be believed) they're as unrepentant as ever. I suspose they must have changed significantly enough, for him to link up with Bernie in the first place. Times are a changing.

[ItisI]

Seriously?

Can't believe that some people supported this guy with his awful campaign over one of the most successful motorsport bosses of all time!!!!???

It's great news that a man as clever and as capable as Jean is the new president, and may he serve for many glorious years.

Let me guess, Ferrari fan?

[LB]

does Seb Coe and Steve Ovett's achievements count for less as they both employed a "pace setter" who would wear down the opposition and pull out of the race with half a lap to go ?

Pedantry I know but Coe's world record at 800m that stood for about a billion years was done without a pacemaker.

[jcbc3]

... The current rally wdc fight has Mikko the sporting person against Citroen/Loeb team orders points at any cost, never mind the sport attitude. Mikko did not want to win at the cost of his team mate. Now they have asked if he regrets that in case he loses the championship with 1 point, and Mikko said that he has no regrets - he can sleep his nights in peace whatever happens. That's just the difference between Todt world and Vatanen world - ethics and values. The other has them, the other hasn't.

This is so stupid I don't even know where to start.

[jcbc3]

This is so stupid I don't even know where to start.

Ok, I found a place to start.

This is from the Official wrc site, driver profile of Hirvonen:

Mikko's 2008 season wasn't all plain sailing, however. Teamwork had a big part to play in keeping his championship dream alive. On several occasions he benefitted from team orders which keep his challenge on track at the expense of his team-mates. And while Latvala's lightning pace certainly spurred Mikko on, there were times when the team leader was frustrated by the speed of the man who was supposed to be supporting him. You can bet that, just like in 2008, Mikko will be out to prove a point this year.

[JPW]

How could anyone have supported Vatanen?

Actually I thought that when he announced his candidacy this summer that it was a good idea to have fresh ideas and a proper race for the FIA Presidency. Of course it always would have been an uphill battle against Todt endorsed by Max Mosley, but still with a good program with well thought out reforms on governance, motorsport and a focus on mending the rift between Sport and Mobility he'd have had a fighting chance.

However Ari wasn't well prepared, he was involved in his unsuccessful EU-campaign until June and then suddenly agreed to run for FIA president backed by the large commercial mobility clubs.
Was Ari to blame for this, only partly I think, the mobility clubs that wanted a fundamental change in FIA should have been better prepared (why was there no well thought out policy program ready) and they should have supported Ari much better, surely big organisations like AAA, ADAC could have supplied him with a proper campaign team, PR-people, an office.

All resulted in Vatanen starting an ill prepared and ramshackle campaign without clear policies which (and that is where Ari is to blame) led to him (politician that he is) resorting to mudslinging, lying, attcking the other candidate's integrity and damaging the very organisation he wished to lead.

Ultimately that has cost him many votes yesterday and has seriously damaged his reputation and chances of a role in FIA or motorsport unless Jean Todt shows himself magnanimous and takes Ari in.

Ari's idea was good, the execution crap and the result disastrous.

[Boing 2]

resorting to mudslinging, lying, attcking the other candidate's integrity and damaging the very organisation he wished to lead.

Mudslinging is what mosley was doing to vatanen.

what ari did was stand up and show the world what a corrupt organisation the FIA is, very different thing.

If your neighbour went for a job in a school and you told the boss he was a convicted sex offender, is that mudslinging, or doing your civic duty?

[Bishy]

It's great news that a man as clever and as capable as Jean is the new president, and may he serve for many glorious years.

[Victor_RO]

All resulted in Vatanen starting an ill prepared and ramshackle campaign without clear policies which (and that is where Ari is to blame) led to him (politician that he is) resorting to mudslinging, lying, attcking the other candidate's integrity and damaging the very organisation he wished to lead.

I'd rather think that a politician can sense certain tricks applied by the other camp. I wouldn't go as far as to call him a liar, that would be wrong. He talked about a certain event in relation to his suspicions about that event, and even though the FIA issued a "clarification", there's still something fishy about that event.

As for "damaging the organisation", surely it couldn't be damaged further after all the scandals and ramshackles that characterised it for the last few years? At least that's my opinion. And focusing a campaign on exposing the faults which led to that ramshackle is a popular idea amongst fans, but, unfortunately, as we have seen, not among the establishment. Plus Todt's integrity has been already called into question several times over the years, which is one of the reasons why he has proved such an unpopular candidate among the outside observers.


I have a feeling that Vatanen could have had a proper campaign, run properly and which would have landed him the presidential seat, had it not been for several factors. And only a small part of those are related to himself.

[BuzzingHornet]

Todt is worse than Max. You think you've seen politics, you ain't seen nothing yet.

[FlatOverCrest]

As for "damaging the organisation", surely it couldn't be damaged further after all the scandals and ramshackles that characterised it for the last few years?

Unfortunately sir, there are those that would have you ignore the scandals and brush them under the carpet, before then throwing back counter accusations. The fact is, while many involved in and around the inner rectum sorry I meant Sanctum of the FIA, would have you believe that none of the FIA licence fee paying members or motorsport fans or teams have any business in deciding who the next President will be.

Unfortunatly, you now have self serving representatives of clubs, more concerned with their own jobs within the FIA, than willing to listen to what the clear majority of racers and fans around the world are saying and that is.....recent events involving the FIA have been a bloody disgrace!

Having brought the name of motorsport into such disrepute as Max Mosley did, with his EXTREMELY poor choice in personal activities...yet nothing is suggested be done about that...yet a man who dares to question the structure of the election should be thrown to the lions, never to walk in the FIA again...

PLEASE..... The typically snide little comments towards a genuinely honorable man, I find distasteful and disgusting.

There are at least 115 I would shoot long before I ever got to Ari... As one guy quite rightly said...in the long run..he is better off out of it as slowly...in time....more and more racing groups will drift away from the stench of the current FIA....

In rallying, Monte Carlo and now San Remo have basically told the FIA to sod off with their crap ideas about how an event should be run and have now decided to go back to formats of the 80's. The American market considers the FIA a joke, with a bunch of pompous old farts self gratifying each other that they all know best, when in actuality, it has been proven with one championship disaster after another in recent years that they DONT HAVE A CLUE! WTF they are doing....

I genuinely hope JT tries to change things without the "Dark Lord" sitting in the corner and for once and for all, motorsport can be rid of that moron Mosley and his over inflated EGO, so that it might once again start serving the very people that KEEP IT ALIVE.... THOSE "amateurs, professionals and fans" at its grass roots.

[Just waiting]

Please read the following...

As Ferrari team boss for 15 years, the Frenchman was an incredibly divisive figure in the F1 paddock, ruthlessly pursuing his team's aims with no regard for what effect it was having on the wider sport.

Todt is inextricably bound to the controversies and questionable ethics of the Michael Schumacher era at Ferrari. He is notorious for his bulldozing manner and ruthlessness, and his marshalling of a team renowned for bending the rules to breaking point and beyond.


Jp

Opps for a second, i thought you were talking about max..................