222 replies to this topic

[Ruud de la Rosa]

After using Red Bull designs for 4 years the newly signed Concorde outlaws this for 2010. What will happen to this Team? will they be able to design a car by their own, will they secretly still use a red Bull design, will they buy the toyota design or will they sell their license?

[V8 Fireworks]

They can build an evolution of the RB5.

They already manufacture their own car (tubs etc are outsourced to firms in Italy etc), and they have already opened a design office.

Certainly they can't be banned for basing their next car on RB5 ideas and using small evolutions of RB5 parts for most of the car.


Now for the second car they should sign Kobayashi.

They can keep the so-far average Alguersuari on a long contract, next season as a test driver, to keep him in their car when he becomes the top line F1 hyperstar and is courted by Ferrari etc.

[weta]

STR hopeful about first non-Red Bull car
By Jonathan Noble and Matt Beer

Toro Rosso team boss Franz Tost is optimistic that the need to construct its own car in 2010 will not mean his squad loses ground, but admitted that there could be a difficult transition period.

STR has so far used designs supplied by Red Bull Technologies, but this arrangement was frowned upon by several other teams who felt it was against the spirit of the regulations to run what could be described as a customer car. Dispensation was given until the end of 2009 to allow Toro Rosso time to ramp up its design facilities, so next season the team must become a fully-fledged constructor.

Link

[showtime]

After using Red Bull designs for 4 years the newly signed Concorde outlaws this for 2010. What will happen to this Team? will they be able to design a car by their own, will they secretly still use a red Bull design, will they buy the toyota design or will they sell their license?

I don't think they're going to sell their license to anyone. Joan Villadelprat tried to buy the team this summer but the team's owner withdrew at the last minute.

[gio66]

will they be able to design a car by their own?

They have built a new CFD working structure and new machine shop.

They are building the instruments for the crash test.

I think they are OK.

[dank]

After using Red Bull designs for 4 years the newly signed Concorde outlaws this for 2010. What will happen to this Team? will they be able to design a car by their own, will they secretly still use a red Bull design, will they buy the toyota design or will they sell their license?

I don't see them fairing too badly next year. The emergence of (perhaps) four new times, will propel STR from the bottom of the timesheets as they reap the rewards from the revised RB5. Mid-season onwards, who knows? I reckon they'll be ok and there has been some significant signings and developments going on in both Faenza and the slightly less exotic town of Bicester.

[potmotr]

So where is STR's new car at?

Are we going to see a fresh battle at the start of 2010 when it emerges their design is heavily influenced by RBR?

I mean, it's hard to imagine sister teams will operate in total isolation from each other.

[KateLM]

So where is STR's new car at?

Are we going to see a fresh battle at the start of 2010 when it emerges their design is heavily influenced by RBR?

I mean, it's hard to imagine sister teams will operate in total isolation from each other.

Crash-testing apparently.

[V8 Fireworks]

So where is STR's new car at?

Are we going to see a fresh battle at the start of 2010 when it emerges their design is heavily influenced by RBR?

I mean, it's hard to imagine sister teams will operate in total isolation from each other.

So can STR receive an "independent report" also coincdentally ordered by RBT on bargeboard specification (and report on high efficiency tub construction, suspension design study for '10 bridgestone f1 tyres etc...), and interpret the recommendations to their own requirements? Is this allowed by FIA?

[gio66]

So where is STR's new car at?

I think they are a little bit late. The machine shop is about ready to go.
We have delivered 8 worms last week, I think they are part of the crash test machine.

[potmotr]

I think they are a little bit late. The machine shop is about ready to go.
We have delivered 8 worms last week, I think they are part of the crash test machine.

Excuse my ignorance on these matters, but what the hell is a worm?

[gm914]

Excuse my ignorance on these matters, but what the hell is a worm?

[STRFerrari4Ever]

Well I can't wait to see how they do at the first test I'm optimistic that they'll be quite quick and competetive.
Buemi has been improving so they could spring a few surprise results here's hoping for more news and success on Toro Rosso!

[Tufty]

Hopefully their optimism isnt misplaced

[gio66]

Excuse my ignorance on these matters, but what the hell is a worm?

Ehm, sorry but I don't know the exact technical name. I've found "worm" on a free online translation dictionary.

However it's an item like this one.

Edited by gio66, 28 December 2009 - 13:26.

[potmotr]

Ehm, sorry but I don't know the exact technical name. I've found "worm" on a free online translation dictionary.

However this is an item like this one.

What does it so?

Part of the steering rack?

And why do STR need only eight of these?

[gio66]

It's not a piece of the car.

The items are part of the crash-tests or torsion-tests machinery.

They must be assembled with an electric motor and a nut which transmits the movement.

[potmotr]

Very interesting.

Do you work for STR Gio66?

[gio66]

Very interesting.

Do you work for STR Gio66?

I work in a third party metalworking company specialized in the production of screws such as the photos I posted and is located 15 km from the factory. Unfortunately I never had the opportunity to visit STR. I hope my boss take me with him sooner or later. For now I must be content to watch from outside.

[potmotr]

I work in a third party metalworking company specialized in the production of screws such as the photos I posted and is located 15 km from the factory. Unfortunately I never had the opportunity to visit STR. I hope my boss take me with him sooner or later. For now I must be content to watch from outside.

Interesting!

At least you can say you have a hand in STR's success!

Do you suport them?

[gio66]

Obviously.
I personally know many people who worked in Via Spallanzani since the time of Minardi and I know what miracle they had to do to survive. And they have always done with great dignity, despite the difficulties.

Also, right here in my country was founded the Scuderia Del Passatore which then became Scuderia Everest and then Minardi Team. In short it is impossible for a fan like me not to be proud of this team.

I just hope that Mr. Mateschitz not quickly tired of his toy. It would be a disaster.

[potmotr]

How do you reckon they'll go with their own design?

Having to build their own car after four years of having the RBR design will be quite tough I'd have thought?

[gio66]

I know that they arrived at Faenza some designers from Milton Keynes so I don't think there will be big problems in this respect. I think that they too will follow the school of Newey.

I believe that also this year the RBR and STR will be almost identical from the nose-cone up to the attacks of the engine. Unfortunately there is a big difference upon the seat and it's all to the detriment of STR.

Edited by gio66, 28 December 2009 - 19:19.

[potmotr]

Are many of the team manufacturing facilities still current?

[gio66]

Are many of the team manufacturing facilities still current?

Excuse me but I don't know if I understand your question.
If you're referring to the fact that the machine shop is not ready yet, I can't tell what stage in the preparation. I can tell you that last week I saw some technicians who were still working at the installation of the enormous 5-axis machining center.

Edited by gio66, 28 December 2009 - 19:28.

[potmotr]

Excuse me but I don't know if I understand your question.
If you're referring to the fact that the machine shop is not ready yet, I can't tell what stage in the preparation. I can tell you that last week I saw some technicians who were still working at the installation of the enormous 5-axis machining center.

Sorry, I meant how modern is the team's equipment?

Is it still from the Minardi days before they were bought by Red Bull?

Just wondering how much updating the team will need?

By the way, any news on the second seat?

[gio66]

Sorry, I meant how modern is the team's equipment?

Is it still from the Minardi days before they were bought by Red Bull?

Oh no, I don't have specific information but I know that they are equipped very well, both technically and as regards the CFD research. Mateschitz spent a lot of money to renovate the factory.

No info about second seat.

[potmotr]

Oh no, I don't have specific information but I know that they are equipped very well, both technically and as regards the CFD research. Mateschitz spent a lot of money to renovate the factory.

No info about second seat.

Thanks mate, a shame Bruno isn't driving for them for you?

[gio66]

Thanks mate, a shame Bruno isn't driving for them for you?

Well, certainly if Bruno had been driving for STR I'd invited to dinner sometime. I believe that if Berger had remained at Faenza there would be no problems and Bruno probably would have run instead of Bourdais from the beginning of the 2009 championship but now it is useless to complain. Things went differently.

[STRFerrari4Ever]

Very interesting to read Gio66 it's good to get some info from someone who is close to STR and knows what goes on compared to most people.
Berger if he was still around he'd be aiming to make a very competetive car and team with STR for the 2010 season.

Gio66 informing us about their equipment and technology being up to date is reassuring and makes me feel very good about the season ahead, In the drivers department I'd want someone other than Alguersuari he doesn't seem to have it yet whereas Buemi has shown very good at times stunning pace so I'd want him to have a strong teammate so they can push STR towards more success.

Here's hoping Mateschitz will allow them to be competetive so he gets more exposure for his 4 cars and it would be good for F1 to have a pretty small team being competetive and challenging the bigger boys

PS:Which driver do you think would be a good teammate for Buemi to make them fairly competetive for next season?

[pingu666]

if the machinery isnt upto date then you haveto rely much more on the skills of the oporator, and components wont be as consistant... theres some really good factory tours on www.radiolemans.com

[Slowinfastout]

Mateschitz spent a lot of money to renovate the factory.

That's nice to know, but I'm thinking that in this case and many others there is a big problem with the quantity of official information available... WTF happened with the supply and demand thing?

We have reports on various has-beens like Mosley and his fat ******** clown nemesis Briatore, the 2013 regulations, and a broken-record type of coverage on Schumacher's comeback... yet, relatively speaking, nobody bothers to give us information about the day-to-day of the teams during the off-season?

The internet is there waiting to be abused, Bernie isn't the only one sleeping..

Edited by Slowinfastout, 29 December 2009 - 02:20.

[gio66]

Berger if he was still around he'd be aiming to make a very competetive car and team with STR for the 2010 season.

Frankly I was very disappointed by the escape of Berger.

I believe that the competitiveness of the team in 2008 did not depend so much by the presence of Berger and Tost. I think instead that the success of that season have been achieved thanks to the talent and cooperation between Vettel and Ascanelli. The young German has made a real breakthrough after Montreal thanks to the trust with the Italian engineer.

The miracle was not repeated in 2009 although the gap between the STR4 and RB5 was minimal (something like 0.3 seconds per lap). Buemi is a nice guy and a fast driver but IMHO perhaps he lacks the determination needed to emerge. Surely he is not another Vettel. I prefer not to comment on the Alguersuari's driving qualities but I think he's an excellent DJ.

As for the 2010 second seat, IMHO it would be appropriate to hire an experienced driver. but I don't know if Mateschitz has the same opinion. However, I think a lot depends on the choice of Repsol to support yet Alguersuari or not.

[potmotr]

So Alguersuari is pretty much totally dependent on bringing money?

[Seanspeed]

So Alguersuari is pretty much totally dependent on bringing money?

Based on his performances in 09, its quite a likely possibility.

On the other hand, who knows if they actually see more potential in the kid to come if he gets a full winter season's testing in a brand new car, so he's on equal terms with Buemi in terms of experience with the car.

[potmotr]

Based on his performances in 09, its quite a likely possibility.

On the other hand, who knows if they actually see more potential in the kid to come if he gets a full winter season's testing in a brand new car, so he's on equal terms with Buemi in terms of experience with the car.

It is a shame he hasn't had more testing for sure.

He's kind of in the same boat as Grosjean.

Tipped in mid-season and struggled.

[STRFerrari4Ever]

Yeah Alguersuari was chucked into the deep-end but even if he is given a full winter season of testing would he be able to improve by an amount that would make him a credible driver for Toro Rosso in 2010?

I think not however as mentioned Mateschitz will want to show everyone that his young drivers programme works(well it doesn't work that well to be honest)but STR's decision rests on Alguersuari getting sponsorship from Repsol if they decide to not sponsor him then he could find it pretty difficulty to have a race seat for the 2010 F1 season.

Gio66 wow 0.3 of a second between the RB5 & The STR4 was this at the latter part of the season for example Japan,Brazil,Abu Dhabi? Because that's when the STR seemed to be flying particularly in the hands of Buemi. Oh yeah since I've mentioned Buemi I agree he kinda seems like he lacks the determination but during the winter he's stated he's going to be training hard improving his fitness doing a lot of karting so who knows he could be fired up and maintain that desire throughout the season here's hoping!

[Seanspeed]

Oh yeah since I've mentioned Buemi I agree he kinda seems like he lacks the determination

I understand how to come to 'semi-conclusions' on how fast/consistent a driver is, but I've still yet to figure out how people determine how 'determined' a driver is. That seems to be something that you'd truly need to *know* the person to say.

[potmotr]

I understand how to come to 'semi-conclusions' on how fast/consistent a driver is, but I've still yet to figure out how people determine how 'determined' a driver is. That seems to be something that you'd truly need to *know* the person to say.

I met Alguersuari at a British Formula 3 meeting in 2008 when he was with Carlin.

I didn't really know much about him before then.

Afterwards I was amazed to learn that he was only 18.

He seemed really serious and incredibly professional and has a real intensity about him.

As you say, hard to gauge his determination, but interesting nonetheless.

[dank]

It is a shame he hasn't had more testing for sure.

He's kind of in the same boat as Grosjean.

Tipped in mid-season and struggled.

Tipped? By who? Just about everybody on here had their knives out before the lad even turned a wheel in anger!

[potmotr]

Tipped? By who? Just about everybody on here had their knives out before the lad even turned a wheel in anger!

Tipped IN Dank!

As in, put in the car, rather than tipped for greatness.

Like tipping something from one container into another.

[STRFerrari4Ever]

Tipped IN Dank!

As in, put in the car, rather than tipped for greatness.

Like tipping something from one container into another.

I thought it would be pretty obvious what you meant but anyways glad you clarified it for others who didn't quite catch it.

Anyways back to the topic

[gio66]

Here are some photos taken last April and the map of the industrial zone of Faenza in which stands the STR.




1 - The prefab built in 1984 in which began the Minardi F1 adventure.




2 - Structure used as offices. It seems to have something familiar with Red Bull Energy Station.
Unfortunately, the Google Earth picture was taken in 2003, when the structure was not there yet, however it's positioned at the # 2.




3 - Other offices (technical).




4 - The composite department that contains the autoclaves.




5 - The quality department.




6 - The new machine shop. This is a 2000 sqm factory rented last winter. It was a resale of caravanning (In the Google Earth picture you can see many campers parked in the square), but the owner died suddenly.
This morning there were still some plumbers and installers at work.



The design offices are in a raised floor of that building.

Edited by gio66, 29 December 2009 - 15:20.

[STRFerrari4Ever]

Wow Gio66 brilliant images seems like they've got a fair few places to operate and as you posted earlier Mateschitz made everything all up to date so only good things can come from the facilities they have. Oh yeah Is your boss planning on taking you to STR in the near future it sounds like an awesome day out!

[potmotr]

Interesting Gio.

Certainly looks quite humble compared to some of the big teams.

Must have been awesome when STR was punching above its weight back in 2008.

And is that a Ferrari jacket you're wearing in the last photo? You can sort of see the sleeve in the side mirror.;)

Edited by potmotr, 29 December 2009 - 15:32.

[dank]

Tipped IN Dank!

As in, put in the car, rather than tipped for greatness.

Like tipping something from one container into another.

I'll let you off, only because it's you mind.

[gio66]

And is that a Ferrari jacket you're wearing in the last photo? You can sort of see the sleeve in the side mirror.;)

NO

I have already given precise instructions to my friends if I wear a jacket Ferrari. They should through my heart with a sharpen ash picket or shoot me with a silver bullet.

[whatto999]

I think instead that the success of that season have been achieved thanks to the talent and cooperation between Vettel and Ascanelli. The young German has made a real breakthrough after Montreal thanks to the trust with the Italian engineer.

Can you explain a bit further that 'cooperation' between Vettel and Ascanelli? As far as i know, Giorgio is TD - how Toro Rosso's technical department helped Vettel?

About Bourdais. He complained all year long (2008) that inherent characteristis of the car don't suit him. Are you trying to say that Toro Rosso went by tuning car to suit Vettel even more over the season?

PS: Thanks for great info on STR factory. Superb indeed

Edited by whatto999, 29 December 2009 - 15:51.

[potmotr]

I'll let you off, only because it's you mind.

Thanks mate, and in turn I'll resist calling for Brendon Hartley to be slotted into that empty STR...

[BMW_F1]

About Bourdais. He complained all year long (2008) that inherent characteristis of the car don't suit him. Are you trying to say that Toro Rosso went by tuning car to suit Vettel even more over the season?

I think that's exactly what happened. Is Tost still managing STR?