730 replies to this topic

[223]

So if the rally season starts soon, what would Raikkonen be doing now? Is he off somewhere testing and practicing with the car he'll be driving next year? Where does that kind of practice/testing happen?

[The Ragged Edge]

Robertson makes it sound like Kimi turned Mercedes down because he's too stubborn to change his mind once it's been made up, never mind that circumstances may have changed.

Unfortunately that pretty much matches the impression I have of the guy but I certainly hope there's more to his decision...

There are a few things that stuck in my head during university. My tutor whilst assessing whether I was receptive to new ideas said, "If you have to much of a open mind, your brains will fall out" So it is good thing not to be open to any idea, and it is commendable to hold on to principals and beliefs, grounded in sound logic. He also said, "When the circumstances and facts change, I change my mind." So if the Robertsons are alluding that Kimi only went to WDR because of stubbornness to change his mind. This would explain a lot and just reinforce the impression I have of Kimi's personality trait. Like I've said in previous posts, the WRC are welcomed to him. It's just a shame to see the Kimi widows mourn on this thread.

[grunge]

http://www.motorspor...p...53573&FS=F1

"Mercedes wanted to have Kimi," Robertson confirmed. "But by this time he had already decided to go to WRC. Kimi doesn't change his mind."

Just confirms my thoughts. He wants WRC now more than anything.

my understanding is that the decision was made as early as when ferrari decided to sack him.a couple of finnish reports on the other thread point towards the same thing.doesnt explain why he needed to get involved in those mclaren negotiations but thats the feeling i get

[Mungo Fangio of the Year]

my understanding is that the decision was made as early as when ferrari decided to sack him.a couple of finnish reports on the other thread point towards the same thing.doesnt explain why he needed to get involved in those mclaren negotiations but thats the feeling i get

One word:

The Robertsons Gang

[undersquare]

my understanding is that the decision was made as early as when ferrari decided to sack him.a couple of finnish reports on the other thread point towards the same thing.doesnt explain why he needed to get involved in those mclaren negotiations but thats the feeling i get

My feeling is that he was evenly balanced about either F1 on the right terms or WRC. If Mac had offered him pay parity with Lewis then I think he'd have gone for it, that's more or less what he said after all. But with WRC as a very tempting fallback he didn't need to compromise and I think parity with Lewis on every level was a genuine issue.

Judging by Jenson's £5.5m then I think Mac were never thinking about paying another driver as much as Lewis, even Kimi. But I guess it would have taken time to sort out the perfect WRC deal that he's ended up with.

[Mungo Fangio of the Year]

My feeling is that he was evenly balanced about either F1 on the right terms or WRC. If Mac had offered him pay parity with Lewis then I think he'd have gone for it, that's more or less what he said after all. But with WRC as a very tempting fallback he didn't need to compromise and I think parity with Lewis on every level was a genuine issue.

Judging by Jenson's £5.5m then I think Mac were never thinking about paying another driver as much as Lewis, even Kimi. But I guess it would have taken time to sort out the perfect WRC deal that he's ended up with.

[Mauseri]

Kimi said driving for Ferrari was his dream and that it will be his last team in F1. So far it looks true.

Alonso said the same about McLaren, but already went back to Renault and Ferrari since that

[Impulse^]

Robertson makes it sound like Kimi turned Mercedes down because he's too stubborn to change his mind once it's been made up, never mind that circumstances may have changed. ohwell.gif

Unfortunately that pretty much matches the impression I have of the guy but I certainly hope there's more to his decision...

He wouldn't have switched to WRC if he didn't want to go there. So there was something more to it than just being stubborn. Like I said in another thread: you people are still stuck in a "I like F1 more, therefore Kimi must like F1 more"-attitude.

I sure as **** would have liked Kimi to stay in F1 in either McLaren or Mercedes (and kick som a$$), but in the end it was not the place where HE wanted to be. And since it seems he is not allowed to give any interviews at the moment (source: some shite article om mtv3.fi), he can't defend himself against all claims that are spouted out.

When he comes out and says "I really would have liked to stay in F1, but since I had made up my mind and was too stubborn to change it, I went with WRC.", THEN I'll believe he is an idiot who didn't do what he wanted to do.

[Galka]

So if the rally season starts soon, what would Raikkonen be doing now? Is he off somewhere testing and practicing with the car he'll be driving next year? Where does that kind of practice/testing happen?

First of all, in the end of January there is Arctic Rally - a non-WRC event, and Kimi has already registered.
Secondly, Kimi's co-driver said that there will be some testing in January and Kimi will visit Citroen factory.

[kismet]

He wouldn't have switched to WRC if he didn't want to go there. So there was something more to it than just being stubborn. Like I said in another thread: you people are still stuck in a "I like F1 more, therefore Kimi must like F1 more"-attitude.

I'm not suggesting he doesn't like WRC or that he wouldn't eventually have switched anyway... But Steve Robertson supposedly said that the Mercedes offer came too late, after Kimi had already made up his mind, and that Kimi is someone who does. not. change. his. mind. Why didn't he just say Kimi prefers rallying with Citroën? Why even make a mention of the timing issue if that had nothing to do with anything?

I have no idea what Kimi thinks about stuff because he hasn't been seen or heard from in ages, so I have to form my opinions based on what his managers, publicist etc. say, and especially Steve Robertson seems to walk around giving the impression that F1 is what matters and, if Kimi doesn't agree, I think he's actually doing his client a bit of a disservice by not representing his views more honestly. Creating false expectations and stuff. For example, what was the deal with all that McLaren-and-sabbatical crap if Kimi's already decided that WRC's his thing? Why couldn't they just say he's retired from F1 and will switch to rallying if that's what he wanted to do all along?

[Sammyosammy]

I'm not suggesting he doesn't like WRC or that he wouldn't eventually have switched anyway... But Steve Robertson supposedly said that the Mercedes offer came too late, after Kimi had already made up his mind, and that Kimi is someone who does. not. change. his. mind. Why didn't he just say Kimi prefers rallying with Citroën? Why even make a mention of the timing issue if that had nothing to do with anything?

In my opinion "having his mind made" means something he has got so deeply involved negotiating with Citroen that he didn´t want to pull back any more. Maybe he is a man of honour - after all?

[motorhead]

In my opinion "having his mind made" means something he has got so deeply involved negotiating with Citroen that he didn´t want to pull back any more. Maybe he is a man of honour - after all?

Yeah, I think those high salary demands with less PR and from McLaren were becouse Kimi had already made up his mind to go to WRC. If McLaren had accepted the demands he might have done another year before entering rallying. The saying goes " stupidity is to pay, Not to ask to payed".

and please don´t talk about man´s personality..you don´t know him so it´s all bullshit girly speculation.... "what I would have done in his shoes" ....give me a break...

[Impulse^]

I'm not suggesting he doesn't like WRC or that he wouldn't eventually have switched anyway... But Steve Robertson supposedly said that the Mercedes offer came too late, after Kimi had already made up his mind, and that Kimi is someone who does. not. change. his. mind. Why didn't he just say Kimi prefers rallying with Citroën? Why even make a mention of the timing issue if that had nothing to do with anything?

Could it be that the comment tells more about Steve Robertson than it does about Kimi? What I mean is, that from his comment it could be read that Steve is dissapointed with the decision that Kimi made. Steve would have liked Kimi to stay in F1. In the end Kimi had made the decision and did.not.want.to.change.his.mind.

It's understandably difficult to try to get a correct understanding of things when the "main man" is not speaking himself.

I have no idea what Kimi thinks about stuff because he hasn't been seen or heard from in ages, so I have to form my opinions based on what his managers, publicist etc. say, and especially Steve Robertson seems to walk around giving the impression that F1 is what matters and, if Kimi doesn't agree, I think he's actually doing his client a bit of a disservice by not representing his views more honestly. Creating false expectations and stuff. For example, what was the deal with all that McLaren-and-sabbatical crap if Kimi's already decided that WRC's his thing? Why couldn't they just say he's retired from F1 and will switch to rallying if that's what he wanted to do all along?

Yes, I think that Steve might be walking around giving a bit of a wrong impression because due to personal feelings (which is kinda silly and bad for business).

If he "retired" from F1, one could look at it as a definite end to his F1-carreer. Taking "a sabbatical" does in turn keep the possible doors to F1 open even though in practice he already has retired. It's all about business.. keeping a fallback-plan.

[VresiBerba]

I'm still pretty certain that the stumbling block wasn't the PR thing or the salary, but that Kimi wanted a kind of performance related clause in his contract that could make him walk mid-season if he so wished. It would make perfect sense given how Kimi has repeatedly stated that he'd only be interested to race if he can win and that McLaren was obviously interested in hiring Kimi but not with a clause like that in the contract, seeing how Ferrari was so handicapped being suddenly without a driver this season.

[Sammyosammy]

I'm still pretty certain that the stumbling block wasn't the PR thing or the salary, but that Kimi wanted a kind of performance related clause in his contract that could make him walk mid-season if he so wished. It would make perfect sense given how Kimi has repeatedly stated that he'd only be interested to race if he can win and that McLaren was obviously interested in hiring Kimi but not with a clause like that in the contract, seeing how Ferrari was so handicapped being suddenly without a driver this season.

You can´t be serious? Suggesting that Kimi insested a contract which allows him walk away whenever he wanted??
One should be brain-dead to ask somethin´like that and I honestly think he is not.

How hard it is to admit that he actually wanted WRC?

[VresiBerba]

How hard it is to admit that he actually wanted WRC?

I don't know, maybe he wasn't sure what he wanted to do, perhaps he didn't want to admit that to himself even. I don't know.

Regarding the performance clause, yeah, I'm leaning towards that mainly because I can't see either Kimi nor McLaren being so petty over such 'unimportant' issues as salary and PR-activities, it just doesn't make any sense. There must have been something really, really big for both partners to walk away. And it would fit what Kimi has said himself, that he's not interested in trundling around in 10th place and given that no one could guarantee a competitive car, not him, not McLaren, a performance clause would be the only thing left.

[sleenster]

I actually didn't think that Kimi had gotten any offer from Mercedes even though Robertson claimed he had because Ross Brawn didn't seem particularly keen on employing Kimi. I thought Robertson was just trying to cover his *ss. But reading one of the comments on his website, James Allen says that Mercedes did give an offer to Kimi.

Q: Wage issues weren’t the problem for Raikkonen. His heart was set at McLaren and that deal didn’t mature because of sponsorship work McLaren demanded of him. To top it all, they weren’t too keen that he went rallying either.
Nick Fry very clearly said that Kimi was a target for the seat.
So its actually Raikkonen who walked away from the sport, and he didn’t do that because of monetary issues.

JA: I think you are right – he had a generous offer

http://www.jamesalle...cedes/#comments

[klover]

But reading one of the comments on his website, James Allen says that Mercedes did give an offer to Kimi.



http://www.jamesalle...cedes/#comments

Not true, the bashers have already stated Mercedes didn't want him, he is a non-entity.

[sleenster]

Not true, the bashers have already stated Mercedes didn't want him, he is a non-entity.

Ok. No offer for Kimi then.

[zenmeister]

Not true, the bashers have already stated Mercedes didn't want him, he is a non-entity.

Hardly a nonentity (sic). He has a regular drive with Citroen in the WRC.

[klover]

Hardly a nonentity (sic). He has a regular drive with Citroen in the WRC.

There's no use denying it, the bashers have spoken
http://forums.autosp...w...t&p=4035230

[Craven Morehead]

Personally, I am totally disappointed that he won't be around F1 next year.

[mey3059]

Personally, I am totally disappointed that he won't be around F1 next year.

and i just want him back some year, have that second driver's title . Then his F1 career is complete.

Edited by mey3059, 12 December 2009 - 08:55.

[vida]

and i just want him back some year, have that second driver's title . Then his F1 career is complete.

me too... i want him to return to F1, he still has unfinished business with F1... i want him to retired from F1 by winning at least one more WDC... walkout in glorious...

[Bunchies]

I don't know, maybe he wasn't sure what he wanted to do, perhaps he didn't want to admit that to himself even. I don't know.

Regarding the performance clause, yeah, I'm leaning towards that mainly because I can't see either Kimi nor McLaren being so petty over such 'unimportant' issues as salary and PR-activities, it just doesn't make any sense. There must have been something really, really big for both partners to walk away. And it would fit what Kimi has said himself, that he's not interested in trundling around in 10th place and given that no one could guarantee a competitive car, not him, not McLaren, a performance clause would be the only thing left.

And it gives Kimi exactly what he wants. He gets a car that he knows can help him win, or he walks away immediately and doesn't waste his time. Mclaren were kind of negotiating off their back foot with such demands. How can they possibly guarantee performance with the unknown of 2010, along with the need to support their boy wonder? And it's perfectly fine if that's what he wanted. I still think Kimi is a great driver, and his youtube videos certainly bring me much joy.

[Kriss]

Raikkonen's manager denies Red Bull/F1 talks
Racing series F1
Date 2009-12-13

By Motorsport.com/GMM

Kimi Raikkonen's manager has denied that talks about the Finn returning to Formula One with Red Bull in 2011 are already taking place.

With funding from the energy drink company, the 2007 world champion has signed a one-year deal with Citroen for the full World Rally Championship next year.

And with Sebastian Vettel signed long-term to the Austrian outfit, rumours have suggested that Raikkonen could replace Mark Webber at Red Bull Racing in 2011.

"At this moment there are no negotiations with any teams," the 30-year-old's manager Steve Robertson is quoted as saying by the Dutch website 4mule1.net.

He added: "Currently Kimi is leaving his future open and not making any decisions."

[undersquare]

Personally, I am totally disappointed that he won't be around F1 next year.

I was very disappointed he didn't rejoin McLaren, that would have been amazing. I didn't care so much about him not joining Mercedes, in fact I'm more interested in his WRC drive now. That will really be worth watching, can he catch the specialists and do the double, just hope they give us plenty of his onboard.

And he's always seemed happier in the pics we see of him rallying.

[Hairpin]

I was very disappointed he didn't rejoin McLaren, that would have been amazing. I didn't care so much about him not joining Mercedes, in fact I'm more interested in his WRC drive now. That will really be worth watching, can he catch the specialists and do the double, just hope they give us plenty of his onboard.

And he's always seemed happier in the pics we see of him rallying.

I feel, and felt exactly the same. It is great that he takes up a completely different type of racing at the top level and considering that Schumi is probably making a comeback at 41, I think Kimi have plenty of time to come back to F1 if he wants to. I doubt he will be back next year though, if he has the speed in WRC. I think a more probable scenario is that he crashes out a lot this season and, if he has the speed, want to give it another go next season when he has the experience needed to really challenge for the title.

[Jordana]

I am very happy Kimi made up his mind and moved to the WRC. Some fresh air far from the F1 tracks is going to be very positive for him and of course, he can be back in F1, as it looks like, in 2011.

[JHunt]

I'm very bummed out that Kimi won't be in F1 next year, but this is only for selfish reasons. He is my all-time favourite F1 driver after all and there won't be the same kind of excitement when watching next season's races when he's not there .. but what can you do? Nothing really. I will continue watching F1 but not with the same enthusiasm as before - I think I'll be rooting for Vettel and Red Bull in 2009!

Now I'm actually starting to feel really excited about the whole WRC thing, although first I wasn't. I have never watched rally before but now that my favourite driver tries out new challenges there so there's no better opportunity than to start watching it now. I'm pretty sure he will be sucked into rally after next year and - unfortunatelly - won't come back to F1. But it would be beyond cool if he would some year fight for the championship in rally too, and be the first driver to ever win both F1 and rally champsionships

All in all, I will be supporting Kimi next year in rally and I'm very excited to see how he progresses!

[Jordana]

JHunt,

Rally is very exciting, I have been following it for a long time and it's really fun. I hope you will enjoy it, at least, as much as I do and now, with Kimi there... I'm going nuts about it!

[Sammyosammy]

I'm very bummed out that Kimi won't be in F1 next year, but this is only for selfish reasons. He is my all-time favourite F1 driver after all and there won't be the same kind of excitement when watching next season's races when he's not there .. but what can you do? Nothing really. I will continue watching F1 but not with the same enthusiasm as before - I think I'll be rooting for Vettel and Red Bull in 2009!

Now I'm actually starting to feel really excited about the whole WRC thing, although first I wasn't. I have never watched rally before but now that my favourite driver tries out new challenges there so there's no better opportunity than to start watching it now. I'm pretty sure he will be sucked into rally after next year and - unfortunatelly - won't come back to F1. But it would be beyond cool if he would some year fight for the championship in rally too, and be the first driver to ever win both F1 and rally champsionships

All in all, I will be supporting Kimi next year in rally and I'm very excited to see how he progresses!

Yeah, that´s exactly how I have been feelin´also. Thrustuation, anger, head-ache and realisation: "Heyy, he actually CHOSE rally, who am I to be wining??".

If he learns to make & use pace-notes...uuuh.. there could be something to follow.?

[Jordana]

Yeah, that´s exactly how I have been feelin´also. Thrustuation, anger, head-ache and realisation: "Heyy, he actually CHOSE rally, who am I to be wining??".

If he learns to make & use pace-notes...uuuh.. there could be something to follow.?

He'll do well, you'll see! Everybody was quite impressed when he took part in those rallies this past season and do not forget the car he was driving. Next year, he'll have a beast of a car so we'll have fun for sure!

[Gareth]

Now I'm actually starting to feel really excited about the whole WRC thing, although first I wasn't. I have never watched rally before but now that my favourite driver tries out new challenges there so there's no better opportunity than to start watching it now.

I'm no Kimi fan and no rally fan, but I'm intrigued as to how he'll get on and the difficulties a circuit driver will have adapting to rally. If he is succesful, it'll be an incredible story.

So I think even I might be interested in rally next season as a result of this - which, given my first 2 statements in this post, shows what an impact this could have I think.

[Sammyosammy]

He'll do well, you'll see! Everybody was quite impressed when he took part in those rallies this past season and do not forget the car he was driving. Next year, he'll have a beast of a car so we'll have fun for sure!

I saw him driving this year in Rally Finland at Himos special stage where You actually don´t need that much notes in the area of center at Himos.

I was impressed by the way he drived that Fiat of him; the lines were great and in his group he seemed to be one of the guys who really can DRIVE. So, it´ll be about working with notes. Hope he´ll make it. If he does, it´s gonna be a fairy tale and let the F1 rest in peace for him..

Edited by Sammyosammy, 14 December 2009 - 18:09.

[kismet]

I'm sure this will sound horrible but... I can't take Kimi Räikkönen seriously as a WRC driver. I'm sorry but I just can't. I appreciate rallying is what he wants to do but I just can't seem to muster any excitement for his new career as a WRC publicity magnet. I'll start thinking about getting excited if he ever reaches a point where he's hogging one of the best WRC cars on merit and not because someone thought it'd be a cool publicity stunt. That day may never come but I wish him all the best and hope he'll at least have some fun in the process.

Edited by kismet, 14 December 2009 - 18:25.

[Sammyosammy]

I'm sure this will sound horrible but... I can't take him seriously as a WRC driver. I'm sorry but I just can't. Not yet, anyway. I appreciate rallying is what he wants to do but I just can't seem muster any excitement for his new career as a WRC publicity magnet. I'll start thinking about getting excited if he ever reaches a point where he's hogging one of the best WRC cars on merit and not because someone thought it'd be a cool publicity stunt.

Woah! "ever reaching a point?". Hell yeah, he ain´t getting to podium at his first season but he sure will score some points. That´s for sure.

But let´s not fight on this, let´s just see how the things will go for him..? Ok?

[Gareth]

I'm sure this will sound horrible but... I can't take him seriously as a WRC driver. I'm sorry but I just can't. Not yet, anyway. I appreciate rallying is what he wants to do but I just can't seem muster any excitement for his new career as a WRC publicity magnet. I'll start thinking about getting excited if he ever reaches a point where he's hogging one of the best WRC cars on merit and not because someone thought it'd be a cool publicity stunt.

I think he is in that car on merit. What he acheived in F1 was incredibly impressive. And it is that which gained him this seat. And the challenge in translating his current skill set into rally is, for me, a genuinely interesting one as a motorsport fan. So I don't see it as a publicity stunt - I think there are very good reasons why this should happen and (outside of Kimi in F1) I'm glad it is.

[Anssi]

Considering Kimi was pretty much on the pace of many of the veteran front-runners in the Finnish national rallies he took part in. And considering he has shown excellent car driving skills in other categories of car racing. He doesn't need to go to the lesser rallying categories to prove himself before he can earn a drive in a WRC team. It doesn't (shouldn't) take a genius to figure out he is an excellent driver no matter what kind of a car you give to him.



Some people who have worked with him (I think a doctor and a physio) have been talking about his ear-eye coordination being extremely good. That he is very sensitive in that respect and has excellent 3-dimensional coordination. It gives him the ability to be good in any sport requiring good coordination and sensitiveness to change of motion, direction and forces.

In fact I think that sensitiveness might be the reason why he gets motion sickness in a F1 simulator. I think what happens is the more "sharp" your senses are, the easier it is for you to notice that there is a delay between what you do and what you see happen. Noticing a delay is what makes people sick in a simulator - their senses are noticing something is not right - which is true, it's not right, it's a simulator.

Considering this it may well be true he is a racer who relies much more on his 'natural' talent, which would be his excellent ear-eye coordination and 3D coordination. There is a story around quoting a Ferrari engineer saying Schumacher needed to be told by the engineers where he could go faster, but Kimi knew it without telling. This supports the opinion that Kimi has more natural talent but Michael worked harder (to achieve the same level). So maybe it is right that Schumacher worked very hard and was speed-wise at the same level with Kimi, but Kimi did it with his natural talent instead of hard work with the data analysis etc.

Kimi may have understood that all and that's why he always sounded very confident about his speed and abilities. And perhaps that's why he appeared to be 'lazy' to outside observers. Some blame him for not working harder, but had he worker harder, would he be the same person? Would he have achieved the same level of success by having a different style? Perhaps, perhaps not. I think his laid-back style also helped him get better results, because he had less stress than the others in F1. Less affected by pressure.

Edited by Anssi, 14 December 2009 - 18:41.

[Sammyosammy]

Some people who have worked with him (I think a doctor and a physio) have been talking about his ear-eye coordination being extremely good. That he is very sensitive in that respect and has excellent 3-dimensional coordination. It gives him the ability to be good in any sport requiring good coordination and sensitiveness to change of motion, direction and forces.

Don´t get me wrong but this part is actually what I´m worried about. In my opinion Kimi is a little too much talented as a "driver". But in rallying You just NEED to listen the pace notes. You can´t win on Your own.

He must, really must rely on co-pilot also..

[kismet]

I think he is in that car on merit. What he acheived in F1 was incredibly impressive. And it is that which gained him this seat. And the challenge in translating his current skill set into rally is, for me, a genuinely interesting one as a motorsport fan. So I don't see it as a publicity stunt - I think there are very good reasons why this should happen and (outside of Kimi in F1) I'm glad it is.

Well, in my book, that he got the job based on what he did in a different sport is pretty much the definition of "not on merit". Even Citroën don't pretend they signed him because they consider him a possible heir to Loeb's throne.

[Gareth]

Well, in my book, that he got the job based on what he did in a different sport is pretty much the definition of "not on merit". Even Citroën don't pretend they signed him because they consider him a possible heir to Loeb's throne.

Just because it's a different sport doesn't mean, IMO, he should go back over and start again like any other rookie, when what he's done elsewhere has similarities and is pretty impressive. I wouldn't expect Adrian Peterson (NFL running back) to start on the bottom rung of the Rugby Union ladder were he to change sports.

[Hairpin]

Well, in my book, that he got the job based on what he did in a different sport is pretty much the definition of "not on merit". Even Citroën don't pretend they signed him because they consider him a possible heir to Loeb's throne.

In the Rally of Finland he had the pace. It was very different from the outings that Häkkinen did, what Valentino Rossi did. They impressed by being quite average rally drivers, but Kimi impressed by showing that he had the speed of the front runners. I remember watching a whole SS from in car, and I must say that rally is frightening stuff, and he really pushed that Fiat to the limit. A Fiat Punto! (ok, maybe that is a really good S2000 car, I don't know). The S2000 are not much slower than the WRC's either, about 5 minutes for each hour.

[Galka]

Well, in my book, that he got the job based on what he did in a different sport is pretty much the definition of "not on merit". Even Citroën don't pretend they signed him because they consider him a possible heir to Loeb's throne.

Well, it takes much more than a couple of rallies to be considered an heir to Loeb's throne.
Even Ogier, who is the "star" of Junior Citroen and a champion of JWRC, is not considered to be an "heir to Loeb".

Besides, Junior Citroen has 4 driver seats, that's a lot, and why don't give one of these seats to a guy who has been successful in another motorsport just to give him a try.
Citroen risks very little. It's only 1 out of 4 seats in a junior team, and if Kimi underperforms, they can easily kick him out and get another driver. He only has a one-year contract.
It is Kimi who is putting his reputation at stake.

[Jordana]

Well, it takes much more than a couple of rallies to be considered an heir to Loeb's throne.
Even Ogier, who is the "star" of Junior Citroen and a champion of JWRC, is not considered to be an "heir to Loeb".

Besides, Junior Citroen has 4 driver seats, that's a lot, and why don't give one of these seats to a guy who has been successful in another motorsport just to give him a try.
Citroen risks very little. It's only 1 out of 4 seats in a junior team, and if Kimi underperforms, they can easily kick him out and get another driver. He only has a one-year contract.
It is Kimi who is putting his reputation at stake.

His reputation at stake? Why? Are we talking about Kimi or Tiger Woods?

Kimi is going to do what he wanted to do and he is going to enjoy himself a lot, no doubt he is going to get good results and Red Bull is having a ball with Kimi in one of their cars... Then, he goes back to F1 with Vettel and all the players win...

[kismet]

Just because it's a different sport doesn't mean, IMO, he should go back over and start again like any other rookie, when what he's done elsewhere has similarities and is pretty impressive. I wouldn't expect Adrian Peterson (NFL running back) to start on the bottom rungs of the Rugby Union ladder were he to change sports.

Perhaps, but you wouldn't really expect, say, McLaren to sign Mikko Hirvonen as their race driver when he hasn't even tested a F1 car, would you? Kimi to WRC is a bit like Danica to F1, IMO. He's technically qualified for the job but everyone knows his signing had little to do with his abilities as a rally driver.

It's great that his WRC switch seems to have attracted some attention to the struggling series but unfortunately I just can't make myself care. I need some context before I can truly appreciate a sportsman and I currently have none for Kimi as a WRC driver. If he sticks around for a couple of years so that I'll have a chance to develop a proper idea of what he's all about as a WRC driver, this will quite likely change but in the meanwhile... It may sound weird but just because I loved him as a F1 driver doesn't mean I'll automatically love or even like him in WRC. I'd like to like him but so far... meh. A big fat meh. Annoying but I can't help how I feel.

Edited by kismet, 15 December 2009 - 17:31.

[Anssi]

Marcus Grönholm has promised if Kimi does better than him in the Swedish WRC Rally by driving then he will not drive a rally car one metre after that!

Imagine this. Grönholm crashes out on the first few hundred meters of the rally. Kimi only needs to get further than Marcus to beat him.



http://www.mtv3.fi/u...2009/12/1018226

[Mauseri]

Marcus Grönholm has promised if Kimi does better than him in the Swedish WRC Rally by driving then he will not drive a rally car one metre after that!

Imagine this. Grönholm crashes out on the first few hundred meters of the rally. Kimi only needs to get further than Marcus to beat him.



http://www.mtv3.fi/u...2009/12/1018226

You missed the keywords " aidosti ajamalla", "genuinely by driving". Grönholm should know his stuff, I think he is safe to say that.

Edited by Bianchimont, 15 December 2009 - 17:46.

[Anssi]

You missed the keywords " aidosti ajamalla", "genuinely by driving". Grönholm should know his stuff, I think he is safe to say that.

Huh? No, I didn't miss it.

And there is no word 'aidosti' in the article... you added it!




As I said if Grönholm crashes out and Kimi goes a longer distance then that's enough. "By driving" Kimi beats Marcus if that happens. When I say crashes out I am not speaking of the car breaking down of course If Marcus can't keep it on the road and Kimi gets ahead then Marcus should not drive a rally car anymore...

Of course it's more likely Kimi can't keep it on the road... but look at Grönholm's career - he has done enough crashing to suggest he can do it again!



I guess you will argue next that "by driving" Marcus means both will finish the rally OK. But I argue if Marcus drives the car into a ditch and retires from the rally because of that then that is also "by driving"

Edited by Anssi, 15 December 2009 - 18:23.

[Sammyosammy]

Huh? No, I didn't miss it.

And there is no word 'aidosti' in the article... you added it!




As I said if Grönholm crashes out and Kimi goes a longer distance then that's enough. "By driving" Kimi beats Marcus if that happens. When I say crashes out I am not speaking of the car breaking down of course If Marcus can't keep it on the road and Kimi gets ahead then Marcus should not drive a rally car anymore...

Of course it's more likely Kimi can't keep it on the road... but look at Grönholm's career - he has done enough crashing to suggest he can do it again!



I guess you will argue next that "by driving" Marcus means both will finish the rally OK. But I argue if Marcus drives the car into a ditch and retires from the rally because of that then that is also "by driving"

You guys arguing this one spesific statement oh Gronholm´s should move to a forum of finnish yellow press.

Because;

a) Kimi knows that..
b) Gronholm knows..
c ) hirvonen is aware of..
d) something Loeb allready knows - which is..
e) Quesnell also admits..
f) EVERYBODY knows....

...Kimi is not forthcoming WDC in WRC next season. But come on..let him try and show the capability of him.

OK?