9256 replies to this topic

[SpaMaster]

Because on his day, Kimi is good. Very good. And McLaren and Red Bull could have given him a car that would have enabled him to do that. But the moment he feels the car isn't where he wants it, he gives up for the weekend. He reminds me of Danica Patrick at Surfers' Paradise a few years ago: the early stage of the race didn't go her way and she got bumped down the order, so she just didn't do anything for the rest of the race. I see Kimi the same way. If I were a team principal, I wouldn't take him. Sure, he might be able to win a World Championship in the car I gave him - but there would always be a seed of doubt in my mind that it would all be for nothing at the first sign of difficulty.

So as you see, flyer, it's hardly checkmate. It would be checkmae if Kimi went on to win the 2009 title. But he didn't. He farted around for the better part of a year when Massa could squeeze more out of the car without even trying.

But Red Bull and McLaren were ready to take him. So what kind of team principal would you make? Marko has been on record saying that they offered Kimi an F1 seat, but Kimi was the one who wanted a rally seat.

[artista]

Martin Whitmarsh:

http://www.motorspor...i_10031229.html

Frage: "Wie realistisch war eine Rückkehr von Kimi Räikkönen?"
Whitmarsh: "Ich gebe ehrlich zu, dass ich ein großer Fan von Kimi bin. Es war knapp, aber es hat nicht geklappt. Wir haben es versucht, denn gemeinsam mit Kimi haben wir noch eine Rechnung offen. Er ist superschnell, aufregend. Ich mag seine Ehrlichkeit und seine Art, aber er hat dieses Faible für den Rallyesport und das könnte die Entscheidung beeinflusst haben."

Also, Whitmarsh says Kimi didn’t sign with McLaren because of the rallies.

And Marko told last week MTV3 (does anybody have the link, please) that they offered Räikkönen a seat in RBR F1 but he wanted to go rallying.

Do you see a pattern there?

I do. But of course, we armchair motorsport fans know better than team principals and Marko

[f355forever]

So you agree with me: Kimi didn't join Red Bull or McLaren because he wasn't the right driver for them. He was either insecure about racing someone that everyone in thi thread believes would give him no trouble, or his motivation was in question. I'm a little confused as to which side of the debate you're on here.

I agree with you. If a driver couldn't make up his mind on whether he wanted to be in F1 at all, then he is not the right driver for any team.

[Captain Tightpants]

But Red Bull and McLaren were ready to take him.

But they didn't. Something obviously changed. Raikkonen was linked to a McLaren seat - and it was widely believed to have been finalised - before talk of rallying began.

So what kind of team principal would you make?

A cautious one. I'd also be smart enough to get two drivers who are better than Kimi. Kubica and Hamilton, maybe.

[Bonaventura]

But they didn't. Something obviously changed. Raikkonen was linked to a McLaren seat - and it was widely believed to have been finalised - before talk of rallying began.


A cautious one. I'd also be smart enough to get two drivers who are better than Kimi. Kubica and Hamilton, maybe.

Wasn't the main reason for Kimi he didn't sign at McLaren the loads PR work the McLaren drivers have to do?
I remember a quote from Kimi where he said, he didn't want to sign a 100 pages contract which forces him to do silly things he don't like

[CoolFiltered]

Does anyone see the joke here ?

Like a beacon to all.


It's a rare pleasure to see someone who's unable to resist poking a sleeping dragon get their nasal hairs singed, one of those moments worth savouring. what makes it even more rewarding though, is when the one doing the poking complains about the dragon not playing fair.

[Gilles4Ever]

Posts have been deleted
Keep to the topic
do not refer to, attack, discuss or attack other posters
enough with the trolling and flame baiting

[f355forever]

Wasn't the main reason for Kimi he didn't sign at McLaren the loads PR work the McLaren drivers have to do?
I remember a quote from Kimi where he said, he didn't want to sign a 100 pages contract which forces him to do silly things he don't like

Aha, but he likes the silly money that he gets?!?
It goes with that 100 pages and silly things, the sponsors create that money and want to see something in return.

Edited by f355forever, 05 October 2010 - 10:15.

[Captain Tightpants]

Yep, let's see how long this lasts ...

Wasn't the main reason for Kimi he didn't sign at McLaren the loads PR work the McLaren drivers have to do?
I remember a quote from Kimi where he said, he didn't want to sign a 100 pages contract which forces him to do silly things he don't like

If you want to be a racing driver, you can't just pick and choose which parts you want to do. You either do all of it, or you do none of it.

[One]

The last year Kimi and his managements were not fully prepare to take the action needed to put Kimi on right situation, namely they had contract for 2011. Neither that Kimi did such a bad job in the 2009 Ferrari.

It was more or less Schumacher's Ferrari Regime that wanted Massa to succeed more than Kimi's capability. Disastrous attitude it proved itself, Kimi has achieved WDC, while Massa with full backing failed. It was wrong doing from the 2008/2009 management policy to do so, they could have bagged two more world titles in the same periods. Family business killed racing chance.

As of Petrov/Kimi comparison, there is no point in discussing in such length. Petrov may be, but the record says that Kimi is way more successful.

[a1phaomega]

Both teams obviously wanted Kimi as a solid no. 2 to their main stars.

Right on the money I would say. No wonder Kimi flounced off to WRC. He is F1's biggest primadonna.

[SpaMaster]

But they didn't. Something obviously changed. Raikkonen was linked to a McLaren seat - and it was widely believed to have been finalised - before talk of rallying began.

No, Kimi didn't. There is a difference. You as a team principal won't take Kimi because you think Kimi lacks motivation when the car does not suit him. McLaren and Red Bull wanted to take him. It was Kimi who did not take it. So, McLaren and Red Bull obviously thought otherwise to your thoughts.

Edited by SpaMaster, 05 October 2010 - 11:08.

[kismet]

I'm as glad as anyone that Räikkönen said no to McLaren and Red Bull but I really don't understand the disdain and contempt afforded to solid no. 2 drivers. After all, with four races to go, two of them are still within a striking distance of this year's WDC.

[lexmeister2]

As far as I'm concerned the McLaren deal fell through because of money - Raikkonen was asking for too much. Whitmarsh even said once that his team were negotiating as though they weren't getting the Ferrari money.

Having said that though if Button had signed with Mercedes I'm 100% sure Kimi would have been signed to McLaren somehow or other - the problem was that Button became available at a much lower cost and with Hamilton already there it wasn't necessary to keep chasing Raikkonen. Plus stealing the number 1 away from Mercedes after they had just decided to go solo was probably part of the appeal as well as having the two most recent world champions on board.

[SilentKiller]

As far as I'm concerned the McLaren deal fell through because of money - Raikkonen was asking for too much. Whitmarsh even said once that his team were negotiating as though they weren't getting the Ferrari money.

Having said that though if Button had signed with Mercedes I'm 100% sure Kimi would have been signed to McLaren somehow or other - the problem was that Button became available at a much lower cost and with Hamilton already there it wasn't necessary to keep chasing Raikkonen. Plus stealing the number 1 away from Mercedes after they had just decided to go solo was probably part of the appeal as well as having the two most recent world champions on board.

Whitmarsh didn't say that.....it was Brawn who said it when Kimi's management were talking to Mercedes.
And I am glad that they did.

[Watkins74]

No, Kimi didn't. There is a difference. You as a team principal won't take Kimi because you think Kimi lacks motivation when the car does not suit him. McLaren and Red Bull wanted to take him. It was Kimi who did not take it. So, McLaren and Red Bull obviously thought otherwise to your thoughts.

More like Kimi made his demands and McLaren and Red Bull said "no thanks".

[Verderer]

Right on the money I would say. No wonder Kimi flounced off to WRC. He is F1's biggest primadonna.

That's pure comedy gold. You seriously are that clueless?

Edited by Verderer, 05 October 2010 - 12:17.

[Watkins74]

As far as I'm concerned the McLaren deal fell through because of money - Raikkonen was asking for too much. Whitmarsh even said once that his team were negotiating as though they weren't getting the Ferrari money.
Having said that though if Button had signed with Mercedes I'm 100% sure Kimi would have been signed to McLaren somehow or other - the problem was that Button became available at a much lower cost and with Hamilton already there it wasn't necessary to keep chasing Raikkonen. Plus stealing the number 1 away from Mercedes after they had just decided to go solo was probably part of the appeal as well as having the two most recent world champions on board.

It was Brawn who said this and it was BS. Any driver has a value and Brawn was trying to steal KR on the basis that he was getting Ferrari money.

Edited by Watkins74, 05 October 2010 - 12:08.

[SilentKiller]

More like Kimi made his demands and McLaren and Red Bull said "no thanks".

I suppose you didn't read Helmut Marko's latest interview......Marko insisted Kimi to drive but Kimi said "no thanks"

[Watkins74]

I suppose you didn't read Helmut Marko's latest interview......Marko insisted Kimi to drive but Kimi said "no thanks"

Your going to quote the guy who says Kimi crashes to much and doesn't generate enough publicity?

Go right ahead.

PS - I should have just said McLaren and not added RBR.

Edited by Watkins74, 05 October 2010 - 12:21.

[flyer121]

Your going to quote the guy who says Kimi crashes to much and doesn't generate enough publicity?

Go right ahead.

I see... RBR coming out with that revelation doesn't sit well with some.;)

[Watkins74]

I see... RBR coming out with that revelation doesn't sit well with some.;)

See my above post. I acknowledged your point and made the correction.

[seahawk]

Kimi was looking too much for the money in 2009. He got a lot of money from Ferrari for not driving F1 and it seems like he demanded a lot from the teams that were considering hiring him. Obviously they thought he was not worth the money or decided that hiring Jenson for less was a better idea.

[flyer121]

See my above post. I acknowledged your point and made the correction.

Thanks for clarifying.

But I have never heard even Whitmarsh say anything but gushing praises for Kimi.

Edited by flyer121, 05 October 2010 - 12:44.

[grunge]

But if Kimi is as perfect as everyone in this thread says he is, that shouldn't matter. He would have signed for either team regardless and promptly upstages Hamilton or Vettel with his results. If he didn't want to race against them, that implies insecurity, and who wants an insecure racing driver?

why do u friggin end up in every thread remotely related to the man?...scroll back and see the last two pages ..since your return to the thread its been nothing but a flame baiting and response cycle.

Stop with the ''if i were a team manager'' rants.youre a nobody and therefore no one here is interested in what you'd if u ever held such a position.

your comments about his contract negotiations last year are idiotic at best.

Mclaren...Whitmarsh clearly wanted him badly..his comments are enough to see that..what he didnt control was the financial situation inside Mclaren..Mclaren at that point simply couldnt afford him.

RB...Marko said himself that they'd offered him a seat..Raikkonen wanted to rally so he declined.

Mercedes..again Fry offered him the seat,Raikkonen wanted to rally,had aready taken the sabbatical and declined.

no matter how you try to twist the situation with words the reality is what ive posted above..

insecurities?..raikkonen?..thats the same guy that agreed to take on MS at Ferrari when he signed with them in 07.he himself categorically stated that he signed the contract before he came to know that MS had retired.

Stop trashing the thread further..posters here want to move on with discussion related to his options for next year but youre flame baiting is proving irresistible.

Edited by grunge, 05 October 2010 - 13:18.

[OfficeLinebacker]

It's hard for me to keep up with the latest lines. They change so frequently. One week it's that he likes ice cream more than F1, the next it's that he's an asshole who hits kids to make them cry

Good summation of the rumors that swirl around Kimi.

Don't forget the one that he's a hopeless alcoholic.

[Desdirodeabike]

I just posted my Kimi focused review of Rally France. Most of it is actually my thoughts on next year based upon his latest results and reluctance to close a deal with Citroen: Rally France 2010 – Que Veux Tu, Kimi?

[OfficeLinebacker]

Hey I just thought of an interesting option:

What if he signed up to be one of the topteams' test/reserve driver, but stayed in Rally?

His (and/or his teams') commitment to the full Rally scene is iffy at best. I think the fact he didn't go to the NZ rally, then dropped out of France, is clear evidence of that. But he could still probably work in a full rally schedule, or as full as he/his team want to do, as a reserve F1 driver. He could do some Friday running for races where there's no conflict to keep his F1 skills sharp.

He has an excellent reputation as one who can give setup feedback and a strong understanding of race car mechanics and stuff, right? He's also a very precise driver who can obviously get the most out of the car, and can produce repeatable results, which is important in testing, for example this season with/without F-duct.

So this might be a good compromise, where he is the reserve driver for a team who has driver contracts expiring after 2011 (ahem Red Bull ahem), while a) allowing him to be fully engaged in racing, b) allowing him to have fun, and c) keeping familiarity with top level open wheel equipment.

My apologies if someone has advanced this idea before.

[lexmeister2]

Whitmarsh didn't say that.....it was Brawn who said it when Kimi's management were talking to Mercedes.
And I am glad that they did.

Oh my bad, thought it was Whitmarsh for some reason. However I still think it was money that was holding up signing a contract, and then Button provided a far more straightforward alternative.

Either way I wish all this speculating would end and they'd just tell us what was going on

[FW09]

Kimi does what he wants, signs the contracts he likes best and lots of people hate him for that?

[artista]

Hey I just thought of an interesting option:

What if he signed up to be one of the topteams' test/reserve driver, but stayed in Rally?

His (and/or his teams') commitment to the full Rally scene is iffy at best. I think the fact he didn't go to the NZ rally, then dropped out of France, is clear evidence of that. But he could still probably work in a full rally schedule, or as full as he/his team want to do, as a reserve F1 driver. He could do some Friday running for races where there's no conflict to keep his F1 skills sharp.

He has an excellent reputation as one who can give setup feedback and a strong understanding of race car mechanics and stuff, right? He's also a very precise driver who can obviously get the most out of the car, and can produce repeatable results, which is important in testing, for example this season with/without F-duct.

So this might be a good compromise, where he is the reserve driver for a team who has driver contracts expiring after 2011 (ahem Red Bull ahem), while a) allowing him to be fully engaged in racing, b) allowing him to have fun, and c) keeping familiarity with top level open wheel equipment.

My apologies if someone has advanced this idea before.

OfficeLinebanker,

I will not get into your theories, we all have ours (mine are quite wild, actually ), and they are all respectable, but I would like to point out something:

The Citroën Junior Team was never going to go to NZ. It is extremely expensive to send the cars to the antipodes, just to bring them back to Europe. Kimi was never supposed to participate there and nor was Ogier.

After the scandal of Rally Jordan, Citroën sent Ogier to NZ to make up for what had happened. It was a way to say “sorry kid”.

And Kimi didn’t drop up from Rally France. He had to retire on Saturday evening when he drove into a ditch. It was a dangerous curve and they could not risk trying to get the car out of there, just in case went off in the same place.
What they decided not to do is to go into the rally again under Superrally conditions.

Somebody who isn’t committed to rallying doesn’t fight for 37 minutes to get a car out of a mud bank, as he did in SS10. If Räikkönen had given up in SS10, when he went off for the first time, and continued on Sunday under Superrally, he had only become 35 min penalizations. Fighting to get the car out of there he got: 37 minutes, plus the penalizations for arriving late at the next time control, plus the time he was going to lose to the big boys anyway. From a competition point of view, it was not worth it to keep on fighting but he did. In other words, he wanted to drive.

[Callisto]

I just posted my Kimi focused review of Rally France. Most of it is actually my thoughts on next year based upon his latest results and reluctance to close a deal with Citroen: Rally France 2010 – Que Veux Tu, Kimi?

excelent review.a very enjoyable read

[a1phaomega]

That's pure comedy gold. You seriously are that clueless?

Huh?
Lets take a look shall we-Can't be arsed if the car is not good enough and does his sulking on track , undisciplined, egotistical,won't put in the PR hours required for his outrageous salary demands but still wants it all.
Well I think he manages to qualify for the primadonna title ,don't you?

[2ms]

Huh?
Lets take a look shall we-Can't be arsed if the car is not good enough and does his sulking on track , undisciplined, egotistical,won't put in the PR hours required for his outrageous salary demands but still wants it all.
Well I think he manages to qualify for the primadonna title ,don't you?

Where do you come up with this stuff?

[artista]

Räikkönen has finally talked about Renault:

http://www.ts.fi/f1/...set/164335.html

If Google translator took it right this time, Kimi states he’s not interested in Renault and is very disappointed with the way Renault has been using his name to make PR.

[Callisto]

Huh?
Lets take a look shall we-Can't be arsed if the car is not good enough and does his sulking on track , undisciplined, egotistical,won't put in the PR hours required for his outrageous salary demands but still wants it all.
Well I think he manages to qualify for the primadonna title ,don't you?

a new member with 10 ten posts,9 are attacking kimi.i guess thats says enough for me

[Wolfie]

Räikkönen puts a stop to Renault's milking

Turun Sanomat 6.10 2010 00:09:17

Kimi Räikkönen who is known for his silence got finally fed up when Renault continues week after week speculating through the media about the Finnish star's possible switch back to F1 in their team.

– I am very disappointed in the way they have used my name in order to promote their own marketing. I have not at any stage considered seriously driving for Renault and I can assure you that I'm 100% sure that I will not drive in Renault next year, Räikkönen declares in his straightforward way.

– My managers were weeks ago once in contact with Renault's team manager. That's all, Räikkönen said.

Even though they haven't had any negotiations, Renault's camp has constantly been feeding the F1-media with stories about how Räikkönen is interested in their team. According to team manager Eric Bouillier the only thing slowing down the negotiations has been the uncertainity of the Finnish driver's motivation.

Although the big audience doesn't necessarily notice it, it isn't any campaign for open negotiations, it's clearly a team- and finance-policy.

Renault is a racing team lead by tycoon Gerard Lopez. For Lopez F1 is business and therefore it looks like they are riding on WDC Räikkönen's name for as long as possible until filling the other seat.

Räikkönen and his managers are used to not speaking in public about any negotiations before the contracts are sealed. Therefore the policy Renault has taken to chow down one short contact for several weeks has been both disturbing and shocking to them.

Turun Sanomat

HEIKKI KULTA

Public torment

Turun Sanomat 6.10 2010 00:09:31

F1-column 5.10.

In top sport the negotiations about stars moving to another league are usually kept face to face in cabinets and they keep quiet about the meetings like they would be national secrets.

There has rarely been anything leaking out into the publicity, especially about Finnish F1-drivers' contract negotiations, before all the thick paper bundles have been signed and approved by lawyers.

The policy is that they deny until the last about contracts that are put into effect. That's how Keke Rosberg, Mika Häkkinen and now Kimi Räikkönen have done it.

I can imagine the disappointment in Räikkönen's close circle when Renault's current management started to boast in public about considering hiring Räikkönen to their F1-team next season.

Räikkönen's managers discussed with Renault's former team manager Flavio Briatore when the French team needed a big name to replace Fernando.

Back then they only whispered about the rumours behind the scenes and the persons concerned never commented their contacts in any way.

It was different now when Renault started to milk out in every turn Räikkönen's eagerness to come to the team. F1-bosses starting from Bernie Ecclestone have wished Räikkönen back and Renault also tried to take the status as the goodwill ambassador by repeating how they are thinking if they should take Räikkönen or Vitali Petrov.

But enough is enough. They will not speak in public about Räikkönen's real negotiations before the contract is closed.

TS/Heikki Kulta

Edited by Wolfie, 05 October 2010 - 22:20.

[Callisto]

Thanks wolfie

[artista]

Thanks Wolfie!

I was expecting such a reaction from Mr Räikkönen since more or less a week. But it didn't came and I was beginning to get worried. Now, it’s like back to normality.

Next question is: who was Quesnel talking about last week, when he said F1 wanted Kimi back? (In case somebody has not noticed it, I’m just trying to stir up the silly season).

[Desdirodeabike]

Thanks for the translation Wolfie

I guess that kinda puts a quick end to all my speculations in the review I posted earlier
Well, if you really want to go rallying, Kimi - just sign on the dotted line And I salute you for taking a task like that head on.

Edited by Desdirodeabike, 05 October 2010 - 22:23.

[Callisto]

Thanks for the translation Wolfie

I guess that kinda puts a quick end to all my speculations in the review I posted earlier
Well, if you really want to go rallying, Kimi - just sign on the dotted line And I salute you for taking a task like that head on.

[flyer121]

LOL at Boullier .... Would love to see his pot face reading this snippet

[Mandzipop]

Cheers Wolfie. End of the speculation.

[intelligentsia]

Kimi showed real patience with Renault, but he has finally had enough, as had many other people I suspect! Finally the Renault speculations and Boullier's press party can end. (Now lets see if Autosport actually publishes an article about Kimi's response.)

Räikkönen has finally talked about Renault:

http://www.ts.fi/f1/...set/164335.html

If Google translator took it right this time, Kimi states he’s not interested in Renault and is very disappointed with the way Renault has been using his name to make PR.

Good question Anthony Peacock and Nogier also mentioned F1 teams.

Edited by intelligentsia, 05 October 2010 - 22:43.

[One]

Thanx, everybody.

[SpaMaster]

More like Kimi made his demands and McLaren and Red Bull said "no thanks".

Whitmarsh and Marko disagree with you.

EDIT: Since you have corrected about Red Bull, I am left only to point out what Whitmarsh has said. Whitmarsh said that the reason why it did not work out between them and Kimi was that Kimi's heart was all set on rallying.

Edited by SpaMaster, 06 October 2010 - 00:57.

[Craven Morehead]

A great response from Kimi.

Essentially saying, "STFU" to Boullier. It really was getting a little aggravating.

[Avastrol]

Methinks it's Lopez who was actually the promoter of this recently ended dog and pony show. Remember how he said that "a particular rally driver was interested in the Renault seat?" and how "such a driver shouldn't be asking be asking for too much" and how the hiring (or not) of this particular rally driver "depends on the context of a successful business strategy in Russia"?

Boullier could just be answering questions based on how he hears it from the bigwig.

[TT6]

This Turun Sanomat story is one that Autosport should quote.

[peroa]

This Turun Sanomat story is one that Autosport should quote.

Do you think they will? They never even bothered to check with Kimi/The Robertsons.
Professional journalism at its best. Copy/pasting Renault press releases.


Ah, but we're used to that, aren't we ...