1464 replies to this topic

[Turbo4]

It looks to me like Red Bull are grooming Ricciardo to move straight up to the Big Time sooner rather than later, and possibly straight into Red Bull as a direct replacement for Webber in 2011. Webber's on a one year deal and given all the primo seats for 2011 are already spoken for ... maybe with the exception of the second Mercedes seat.... it wouldn't surprise me to see Mark walk away from F1 rather than go back to the midfield in 2011, with Ricciardo taking his place.

Perhaps if Webber does exceedingly well next season and earns a 2011 drive they might farm Ricciardo out to Toro Rosso, but I think they're looking at him as a ready-to-go type rather than a work-in-progress like most recent Toro Rosso seat fillers.

What do you guys think?

Edited by Turbo4, 02 December 2009 - 09:43.

[dank]

I think he is genuinely one of the most promising racers out there. He blitzed British F3 this season and won by 87 points or something silly. Perhaps indicative of the rest of the field, but then, it was up to them to try and catch the Aussie.

As for F1? Not for a couple of years. I reckon they'll see how he fares against Brendon Hartley in FR3.5 first and, if Alguersuari doesn't improve during 2010, could find himself in the Toro Rosso seat.

[noikeee]

Depends on his WSR performance, although I'd put money on him being good there. I think replacing Webber is very optimistic (don't forget they have Sebastian Buemi, nevermind the possibilities to sign Raikkonen or other top drivers), if anything he's first on the list to replace Alguersuari. Wouldn't be surprised to see him in a Toro Rosso by mid-season next year.

[slideways]

I think RBR will look for an established top driver to replace Webber in 2011 and will have several lining up for the drive.

[Turbo4]

I dont see why they'll replace Webber with another older 'established' guy. Webber's an established 'tier 2' driver, there's great team harmony at RBR, and he gets along with Vettel well and pushes him pretty hard. Plus he works cheap.

If Webber's elbowed out, I think it will be for a younger someone like Buemi or Ricciardo rather than Kimi or Kubica.

Edited by Turbo4, 02 December 2009 - 11:20.

[dank]

I dont see why they'll replace Webber with another older 'established' guy. Webber's an established 'tier 2' driver, there's great team harmony at RBR, and he gets along with Vettel well and pushes him pretty hard. Plus he works cheap.

If Webber's elbowed out, I think it will be for a younger someone like Buemi or Ricciardo rather than Kimi or Kubica.

Hold on, you were the one who raised the original point in this thread about Ricciardo being Webber's potential replacement for 2011? Now you've back tracked to say you don't think they will?

Red Bull does try and promote a youthful, adventurous image, but that's what Toro Rosso is there for. To feed into the 'main' Red Bull A-team. Why then would they take a punt on a rookie, when they may have the likes of Raikkonen possibly knocking at their door, or be able to use Buemi's services - and show that their driver programme can actually work?

The internal politics and goings on at Red Bull suggests to me that it may well be Webber's last season for Red Bull in 2011. There's friction between him and Helmut Marko and the team are putting most of their efforts in promoting their poster boy, Sebastian Vettel.

[Turbo4]

Hold on, you were the one who raised the original point in this thread about Ricciardo being Webber's potential replacement for 2011? Now you've back tracked to say you don't think they will?

Read my comment again:

I dont see why they'll replace Webber with another older 'established' guy. Webber's an established 'tier 2' driver, there's great team harmony at RBR, and he gets along with Vettel well and pushes him pretty hard. Plus he works cheap.

I was disputing the claim that RBR would replace Webber with 'an established top driver' (as slideways suggested), given they've arguably got one of those already.

If Webber's elbowed out, I think it will be for a younger someone like Buemi or Ricciardo rather than Kimi or Kubica.

Hence i'm not contradicting myself at all thanks.


_____________________________


And there's been friction between Webber and Marko for well over 12 months, if there was anything really in it I doubt Mark would have got renewed for 2010.

Fortunately, for all his bluff and bluster Marko's not the guy that will ultimately make the call over Mark's place at Red Bull.

Edited by Turbo4, 02 December 2009 - 12:05.

[dank]

Right, but you haven't explained at any point why they'd take a rookie over an experienced driver?

And I think you undermine Marko's involvement at Red Bull.

[Turbo4]

I've explained in my first post why they'd plump for a rookie! I'm no expert, but to me Ricciardo looks ready to go into a quick car.

Why did McLaren put Hamilton into a topline seat in 2007 rather than farm him out elsewhere? They knowingly put him in against a World Champion, because apparently they knew he had the goods. Maybe Ricciardo has the goods too, his lower formulae results are pretty formidable evidence.

As for Marko, not to be rude dank but I was there when Mark was asked the questions about Marko earlier this year and he answered them very frankly. Ask supersleeper.

Edited by Turbo4, 02 December 2009 - 12:18.

[dank]

And not to be rude to you, I'm in the Mark Webber's supporters club as well, so know full well his remarks about Marko. I also know a few people at Red Bull Technology and have a fair grasp of the goings on within the team.

[Turbo4]

Yes, I know you're in the MWSC, so what's your point? You know more than me? I bow down to your excellence.

[ForeverF1]

Guys, don't let this become a one on one argument. Keep it on topic. Thanks.

[dank]

Yes, I know you're in the MWSC, so what's your point? You know more than me? I bow down to your excellence.

Seriously. This has gone completely off tangent.

Red Bull won't take on Ricciardo straight away, when they have Toro Rosso there to groom drivers ready for their A-team. Game over.

I will now depart.

Edited by dank, 02 December 2009 - 12:29.

[Turbo4]

Yes, you're probably right that he'll go to TR, but if he continues to brain them next year I reckon the thought of putting him straight into the A team will cross a few minds at Red Bull more than once. Hamilton showed what a gun rookie can do.

Why pay Kimi 25 million a year when Ricciardo will (arguably) do a reasonable job for maybe 1? Is Kimi going to be 25 times better and earn the Red Bull brand his salary (plus a large multiplier more) back?

Edited by Turbo4, 02 December 2009 - 12:36.

[V8 Fireworks]

Unless Riccciardo is as fast as Vettel, why replace Webber? Webber is only 0.1s-0.2s off Vettel -> so Ricciardo is going to have to consistantly faster and therefore regularly beating and irratating Vettel to be any better than Webber.
With Vettel, Marko and Ricciardo politics the team might then implode!

[Weekend-at-Bernies]

How do you pronounce his name? Is it Rick-ardo or Ritchie-ardo? I've heard both..

[Anssi]

Oh, I like him already.


But Kimi or him... yeah I'll take Kimi!

I said yesterday at this forum that the youngsters should have drivers like Lewis and Kimi to set some lap times for them to aim at in the testing. Otherwise we won't really know how far off the mark they are.

Yeah - we need to put them race the "proven extremely fast" guys before saying we need to hire this new guy and not consider the old guy at all.

[Rob]

How do you pronounce his name? Is it Rick-ardo or Ritchie-ardo? I've heard both..

His name is seemingly of Italian origin, so as the double c is followed by an i it would presumably be a soft double c, i.e. Ritchie-ardo.

[Sausage]

Well even though Webber is pretty fast they may want some more harmony in the team. Webber looks stubborn at times and he and Vettel don't get along too well. Also from a boss perspective it's nice to have 2 drivers doing well but it really doesn't help challenging for hard championships, look at how they ate points of eachother this year

[Tufty]

How do you pronounce his name? Is it Rick-ardo or Ritchie-ardo? I've heard both..

I've been reading it as Ricky-ardo...

Oh dear, its another Alguersuari

[noikeee]

I think it's Ritchie-ardo but without pronouncing the t, like: Rich-iardo.

[Jose Mourinho is Special]

It's pronounced as Rick-ardo, he said it in an interview

[LukeM]

I have been following Daniel for about 2 years now, since one of my friends who knows him personally tipped him off as the next great thing. He has gotten up to speed in everything he's driven very fast. We will definitely see him in F1 sometime in the next few years.

[weta]

Ricciardo = ‘Rikardo’ in English and ‘Rishardo’ in Italian.

Source: His dad

[Dolph]

I think he is genuinely one of the most promising racers out there. He blitzed British F3 this season and won by 87 points or something silly. Perhaps indicative of the rest of the field, but then, it was up to them to try and catch the Aussie.

As for F1? Not for a couple of years. I reckon they'll see how he fares against Brendon Hartley in FR3.5 first and, if Alguersuari doesn't improve during 2010, could find himself in the Toro Rosso seat.

Exactly. The worse of the Toro Rosso boys will likely be forced to leave at the end of 2010 to be replaced by either Hartley, Wickens or Ricciardo.

[dank]

Exactly. The worse of the Toro Rosso boys will likely be forced to leave at the end of 2010 to be replaced by either Hartley, Wickens or Ricciardo.

Rob Wickens is no longer a Red Bull backed driver by the way.

[Dolph]

Rob Wickens is no longer a Red Bull backed driver by the way.

Oh? I would have thought his second place at F2 would have kept him in favor... Any reason given for this ?

[Muz Bee]

Yes, you're probably right that he'll go to TR, but if he continues to brain them next year I reckon the thought of putting him straight into the A team will cross a few minds at Red Bull more than once. Hamilton showed what a gun rookie can do.

Getting ahead of ourselves aren't we? I'm sure in Australia he is fast becoming the new pin-up boy but it's surely too early about predictions of him being the next Vettel. Vettel had big wraps pre-F1 (as did Sutil) but they didn't drop straight into the front ranks. Why should Richard-oh?

A stellar season in one feeder class doesn't mean instant F1 stardom, nor does one bad season, though I doubt whether Hartley will recover from this last one. Remember (if you can) that Lauda had a shocking year in F3 before funding his own foray into F2 and F1 - and that somehow panned out quite well!

[Turbo4]

Not getting ahead of ourselves at all haha! Kiwi love for Hartley ... now apparently THAT was getting ahead of yourselves.;)

My tip for FR3.5 next year is that Daniel has a 2.5 to 1 points ratio victory over Brendon, and Hartley's hunting for a V8Supercar development series ride at the start of 2011.




....love a bit of needle between the aussies and the kiwis

[ClubmanGT]

Not getting ahead of ourselves at all haha! Kiwi love for Hartley ... now apparently THAT was getting ahead of yourselves.;)

My tip for FR3.5 next year is that Daniel has a 2.5 to 1 points ratio victory over Brendon, and Hartley's hunting for a V8Supercar development series ride at the start of 2011.




....love a bit of needle between the aussies and the kiwis

Hartley has done pretty well for himself, I'm curious to see what sort of performance he puts in tonight. They obviously have some faith in him if he wasn't dropped during the cull. Personally, I fancy Stanaway as our next Kiwi driver, but today's session will be the most important of Hartley's career.

[Seanspeed]

I thought that the British F3 field this past year was pretty damn weak, to be honest. Gonna need to do something a bit more impressive against a more talented field if he wants to really prove himself to be something special.

[PassWind]

Oh, I like him already.


But Kimi or him... yeah I'll take Kimi!

I said yesterday at this forum that the youngsters should have drivers like Lewis and Kimi to set some lap times for them to aim at in the testing. Otherwise we won't really know how far off the mark they are.

Yeah - we need to put them race the "proven extremely fast" guys before saying we need to hire this new guy and not consider the old guy at all.

If testing was about that then its all well and good, the engineers can tell by looking at simple data how the driver is going, they have a file or 4 billion on Jerez to reference. Really looking at testing so far none of the cars are any where near there potential as they are miles off the start of year testing results.

But anywhoo yes the teams do all this so fans can theorize on the bloody internet I forgot.

[repcobrabham]

they'll most likely stick him in TR if anywhere, especially if he can speak italian (as the dual pronunciation of his name suggests - ask alfisti about the 'aussiefication' of surnames). but if red bull slip back to midfield next year, then maybe neither SV or KR will be interested in RBR for 2011 ... maybe DR will be looking elsewhere too!

Edited by repcobrabham, 03 December 2009 - 07:32.

[Alfisti]

IMHO it's not the season in F3 that is all that impressive, we've seen time and time again that franjkly, lower formulae is not that greata barometer of pace in an F1 car. It's last week that got me, he just absolutely smoked them and looked very very comfortable.

We have not seen that from Grosjean, Alguasari etc etc etc

[potmotr]

Ricciardo = ‘Rikardo’ in English and ‘Rishardo’ in Italian.

Source: His dad

Lets hear it from the man himself...

http://www.redbull-j...i...262&v_id=52

[Seanspeed]

IMHO it's not the season in F3 that is all that impressive, we've seen time and time again that franjkly, lower formulae is not that greata barometer of pace in an F1 car. It's last week that got me, he just absolutely smoked them and looked very very comfortable.

We have not seen that from Grosjean, Alguasari etc etc etc

In a test session where we know very little about the testing program other than that the teams were testing with a lot of weight for much of the time in order to prepare for the 2010 season. I doubt the tests signify a direct comparison of driver ability based on 'final times' alone.

[santori]

Lets hear it from the man himself...

http://www.redbull-j...i...262&v_id=52

:slightly surprised emoticon: I've been pronouncing it with a 'tch' in the middle.

[potmotr]

:slightly surprised emoticon: I've been pronouncing it with a 'tch' in the middle.

I've got to say, Dan Ri-car-do is an awesome sounding name for a racing driver.

Young Daniel certainly seems to carry himself with ease and total confidence.

Personally I think Red Bull should ditch Alguersuari, who has been totally average, and slot in Ricciardo for 2010.

He's already well qualified. I think he'd be more than capable.

Mind you, I think STR are keen on all that Spanish cash...

[gui-mag]

:slightly surprised emoticon: I've been pronouncing it with a 'tch' in the middle.

You're right to be surprised.
As a native Italian I can assure you all that the standard Italian pronunciation of his name is something like ;
Rich-chardo, with a long ch, which almost double itself .

The surname comes from Sicily, from a small area on the north east coast, on the Messina - Palermo road.

See this link and write ricciardo under "cognome" (surname) in the right hand column.

http://gens.labo.net/

Then go to this Sicily map to locate the area

http://www.comuni-it...t/19/mappa.html

You'll some other Ricciardo all over Italy, but obviously they are immigrants (or children of immigrants) to Rome or to the North.

So Daniel is "wrong" in pronouncing his surname Rick-ardo, and so is his dad saying that in Italian it is pronounces Ri-shardo. But it's possible thal locally, in Sicily, they pronounce it this way, in their dialect.

Having said that, I very much look forward to hearing very soon Rick-ardo, Ri-shardo, Rich-chardo leading a grand prix in his Red Bull / Toro rosso , and winning it, Vettel-like !

[Alfisti]

Personally I think Red Bull should ditch Alguersuari, who has been totally average, and slot in Ricciardo for 2010.
Mind you, I think STR are keen on all that Spanish cash...

Agreed on the cash issue but i'd take a mor eprgmatic approach then just throwing him in the car,. When the new car arrives you do a test day two identical cars (well as close as you can get them). Roll both cars off the truck in a state of poor set up and give them a few dozen laps to get the set up they like, then have them both qualify then have them both do a GP simulation.

Then make a decision.

[potmotr]

So Daniel is "wrong" in pronouncing his surname Rick-ardo, and so is his dad saying that in Italian it is pronounces Ri-shardo. But it's possible thal locally, in Sicily, they pronounce it this way, in their dialect.

The family probably just got sick of correcting it in Perth so went with the Australianised version.

Sounds good to me though!

[Alfisti]

It's like all those Ex-Yugo names ending in 'ic', they should be pronounced 'ich' but people say 'ik' so they add a 'H'.

Simon Katich's real last name is Katic, pronounced "Kartich' with a soft 'R'.

Edited by Alfisti, 08 December 2009 - 18:30.

[repcobrabham]

http://wwos.ninemsn.....aspx?id=982842

[Classic Ferrari]

http://wwos.ninemsn.....aspx?id=982842

Ricciardo is in contention to be Red Bull Racing's reserve driver next year on top of his commitments to race in the Formula Renault 3.5 Championship in Europe.

Test driver for a year then a seat?

[ClubmanGT]

Test driver for a year then a seat?

Perhaps, they may rotate like they did this year though.

[Turbo4]

Pending Mark's form, Ricciardo & Webber will team at RBR in 2011, Vettel will go to Mercedes.

Makes no sense to me having two Australians at RBR, but that's what i've heard.

Edited by Turbo4, 16 January 2010 - 09:35.

[Muzzinho]

Pending Mark's form, Ricciardo & Webber will team at RBR in 2011, Vettel will go to Mercedes.

Makes no sense to me having two Australians at RBR, but that's what i've heard.

Vettel is contracted until '12

Merc doesnt have any vacancies next year either, unless thing go really badly with Schumi.

And Red Bull wont take two Aussies. Webber has said that hes not interested to move back to a backmarker team anymore, So if Red Bull dont renew his contract, 2010 could be Webbers last year.

There is a chance that if Massa leaves Ferrari at the end of next year, and Kubica moves to his seat, then Webber will take a spot at Renault.

Ricciardo will most likely get a Toro Rosso seat first up, like Vettel did, Unless he is very very impressive next year.

In that case Vettel, Ricciardo Red Bull 2011

[dank]

Pending Mark's form, Ricciardo & Webber will team at RBR in 2011, Vettel will go to Mercedes.

Makes no sense to me having two Australians at RBR, but that's what i've heard.

The likelihood of Mateschitz giving up Red Bull's posterboy for 2011, especially since he's under contract, is virtually nil. Teams have been sniffing around Vettel ever since he was at Toro Rosso (including the likes of McLaren), and the Red Bull magnate isn't going to want to give up the only driver in the team that actually taps into the youth orientated, adventurous image of the brand.

Vettel and Ricciardo I wouldn't immediately dismiss, but two Aussies in the same team seems pretty far fetched.

[potmotr]

Test driver for a year then a seat?

More like test driver for a year and then into STR I'd imagine.

Why have a junior team if you're not going to use it to blood in new talent?

[jeze]

Vettel is contracted until '12

Merc doesnt have any vacancies next year either, unless thing go really badly with Schumi.

And Red Bull wont take two Aussies. Webber has said that hes not interested to move back to a backmarker team anymore, So if Red Bull dont renew his contract, 2010 could be Webbers last year.

There is a chance that if Massa leaves Ferrari at the end of next year, and Kubica moves to his seat, then Webber will take a spot at Renault.

Ricciardo will most likely get a Toro Rosso seat first up, like Vettel did, Unless he is very very impressive next year.

In that case Vettel, Ricciardo Red Bull 2011

I think there is no chance that Vettel leaves Red Bull when Merc have Schumacher and Rosberg under contract at least until the end of 2012. I think RBR is quite keen on having Webber in the team unless they can find a way to get Kimi Räikkönen back into F1, which still is a possibility, although not too likely.

If Ricciardo delivers the title in World Series this year he has a remote chance getting the spot, but I think it's much more likely that Red Bull wants to give him a year in Toro Rosso just to see whether he can take the heat in F1 first. After all, he only had to fend off Walter Grubmüller to win the British title last year, and lokked under pressure everytime an interloper (including van der Zande) raced.

I can't see why Ferrari should drop Massa and replace him by Kubica. What on earth has Kubica done to deserve such a promotion? If Ferrari doesn't renew Massa's contract it'd only be for giving Jules Bianchi a race seat, but I think that's more likely for 2012 after a year with Sauber.