5433 replies to this topic

[ivand911]

Michael is fighter and Rozberg is giving space to anyone. Good luck with your star Rosberg. Michael get to 3-rd, Rosberg get to 6-th. When Michael was 3-rd ,Rosberg was 13-th. It is not like they both fight for wins.

[TurboF1]

After 8 races
NR 74
MS 34
At this pace NR will be 95 points in front of MS at the end of the season!

MS is getting DESTROYED by Nico Rosberg. There's no 2 ways about it. I remember everyone at the start of the year saying to give MS until the middle of the season and he'd be up to full speed by then. Guess what. Its the middle of the season. MS is up to full speed. The problem is that his full speed isn't at Rosbergs level.

He's still getting whooped BIG TIME. It's good to see frankly. Now that his countless unfair advantages have been stripped, he's being exposed. Schumacher is talented no doubt, but best ever? Nah.

[TurboF1]

Michael is fighter and Rozberg is giving space to anyone. Good luck with your star Rosberg. Michael get to 3-rd, Rosberg get to 6-th. When Michael was 3-rd ,Rosberg was 13-th. It is not like they both fight for wins.

Can someone translate this please? When has Michael been on the podium this year? That was ROSBERG on the podium bro. Twice so far this year. Nice try though.

[Diablobb81]

Yeah right. Rosberg´s anonymous showing got him 8 points in the standings.
He should have better tried something in the way of the old master, I suppose...

Yes, those 8 points are going to move mountains.


In the end Schumi fought had a good chance to be miles ahead of his starting position. It was all ruined after the fight.

Amusing to see people saying he didn't have the pace and analysing him on soft tires after 30 laps. Go watch a race.

[Fortymark]

Michael is fighter and Rozberg is giving space to anyone. Good luck with your star Rosberg. Michael get to 3-rd, Rosberg get to 6-th. When Michael was 3-rd ,Rosberg was 13-th. It is not like they both fight for wins.

And how did he manage that 3:rd position? He screwed it all up and ended outside the points

I said it in another thread but I can say it again, the current drivers don´t take **** like old mid 90:ies
drivers did.

[Dragonfly]

I said it in another thread but I can say it again, the current drivers don´t take **** like old mid 90:ies
drivers did.

Don't worry. They'll learn

[arknor]

lets ignore msc beeing in 3rd place and looking for a good race and them for some reason 2 pit stops in a row ruining his race and spending the majority of his time on softs for some reason.

face it if it werent for bad circumstances in the race he would easily have been top 6

[baddog]

He messed it up after the odd double stop, and got way too bump and grindy at the end (I assume the second stop was because of his off defending too hard against kubica?, will wait to see if that was the reason) but the first race stint up to there was in fact very good indeed.

While he had a bad weekend, if whatever happened around his first tyre stop hadnt happened (and again I suspect it was his own fault) then he would have been in a very nice position indeed.

*shrug* we shall see

[Diablobb81]

He messed it up after the odd double stop, and got way too bump and grindy at the end (I assume the second stop was because of his off defending too hard against kubica?, will wait to see if that was the reason) but the first race stint up to there was in fact very good indeed.

While he had a bad weekend, if whatever happened around his first tyre stop hadnt happened (and again I suspect it was his own fault) then he would have been in a very nice position indeed.

*shrug* we shall see

In the fight with Kubica he ended up with a flat tire.

[baddog]

In the fight with Kubica he ended up with a flat tire.

Thanks (I went back to bed at 5:30am here when the race finished and just got up for work so didnt get to find out what happened.) thats what I thought happened.. I will put that as his mistake, he should probably have let the place go, plenty of time later to take it back, and kubica is no jenson button.

[dav115]

The problem is that his full speed isn't at Rosbergs level.

Were you watching the race? Schumacher was faster throughout the whole race until he got stuck on soft tyres for THIRTY SEVEN laps...

[baddog]

The problem is that his full speed isn't at Rosbergs level.

Yeah that is pretty silly. Rosberg was more sensible and made no mistakes (and got a deserved result), but was in no way quicker on track at comparable times.

[Kompressor]

Schumacher was in a solid 3rd position but failed spectacularly to turn it into points. He wasn't managing his tires properly. He was too busy cutting chicanes and driving over the grass and over the various debris off the racing line in a clash with Kubica. What a nice way to treat his second set of prime tires. Perhaps in the heat of battle he forgot that the rules have changed since his last Montreal GP. If he would have saved his prime tires he wouldn't have been stuck nursing the soft option tires for 30 laps. Pity.

Rosberg gave Schumacher a lesson in managing tires and racecraft. Even after he lost positions at the start due to spins and clashes ahead at the start, he was able to get through cleanly and resume his charge. He overtook cleanly. He was able to put in the 3rd quickest lap of the race. He beat who he needed to beat.

[ivand911]

You compare laps made in different stage of the race, with different tires and different weights?

[Kompressor]

You compare laps made in different stage of the race, with different tires and different weights?

I only mentioned Rosberg's 3rd fastest lap as a nice bonus fact. I wasn't comparing race pace. One benefit of driving a clean race is being in a position to put in a fast lap.

[Johnrambo]

Yeah that is pretty silly. Rosberg was more sensible and made no mistakes (and got a deserved result), but was in no way quicker on track at comparable times.

How slow would MS have been if he had driven reasonably. OR how fast would have Rosberg been if he had driven without his brains like MS.

[MikeTekRacing]

you know, there was another similar storry
webber once said that heidfeld "just sits there" and gets results while he fights and sometimes loses.
guess who is a reserve driver today and who is fighting for the wdc.

just sitting there is not always a sign of wisdom. just a thought

nico does good, but we will have to see how that works when the pressure is high

[dav115]

Schumacher was in a solid 3rd position but failed spectacularly to turn it into points. He wasn't managing his tires properly.

36 laps on a tyre good for nothing more than 6 laps = disaster waiting to happen. Hence the race winner only running these tyres (and destroying them in the process) for 7 laps...

[Sakae]

Schumacher was in a solid 3rd position but failed spectacularly to turn it into points. He wasn't managing his tires properly. He was too busy cutting chicanes and driving over the grass and over the various debris off the racing line in a clash with Kubica. What a nice way to treat his second set of prime tires. Perhaps in the heat of battle he forgot that the rules have changed since his last Montreal GP. If he would have saved his prime tires he wouldn't have been stuck nursing the soft option tires for 30 laps. Pity.

Rosberg gave Schumacher a lesson in managing tires and racecraft. Even after he lost positions at the start due to spins and clashes ahead at the start, he was able to get through cleanly and resume his charge. He overtook cleanly. He was able to put in the 3rd quickest lap of the race. He beat who he needed to beat.

Kubica does it far too often to continue to get away with it; it's time instead making excuses for him for a hammer to come down and clip that clumsy idiot out of the way.

[Fortymark]

You compare laps made in different stage of the race, with different tires and different weights?

If we look at the lap times between 25-32, Schumacher was in free air but couldn´t match Rosberg´s
times that he did on lap 24-25 despite having less fuel on those laps.
He also had the same harder tire and Rosberg had almost 20 laps with them by that time, Schumacher
had only done about 10 laps with his.

[Kompressor]

36 laps on a tyre good for nothing more than 6 laps = disaster waiting to happen. Hence the race winner only running these tyres (and destroying them in the process) for 7 laps...

He was only forced to use the softs after he ruined his primes in the get together with Kubica.

[black magic]

quite correct but are we trying to discuss speed here or results achieved.

are we calling it 6:2 or the more real 5: 3

seems to me michael wasnt as fast as nico at the start but now he is matching him for what that means.

michael had poor qualifying and got trashed on BBC who conveniently made no mention of rosberg ending 10th, confirming it was a car tyre issue

[sw6569]

@Kompressor - Think you've hit the nail on the head there

Would have been a completely different race for schumi with the prime tyre available. Not sure if the result would have been that much better, but I think he probably would have beaten Rosberg, or at least been on the same pace as him.

While today wasn't a great show of his driving skills by any means, it also looked a lot worse than i think it actually was given the circumstances

[dav115]

He was only forced to use the softs after he ruined his primes in the get together with Kubica.

Doesn't explain why he used only one set though - a pit stop would have cost him what, 16 seconds? Not bad considering he was losing 4s per lap to the leaders by the end of the race :/ .

[Muz Bee]

quite correct but are we trying to discuss speed here or results achieved.

are we calling it 6:2 or the more real 5: 3

seems to me michael wasnt as fast as nico at the start but now he is matching him for what that means.

michael had poor qualifying and got trashed on BBC who conveniently made no mention of rosberg ending 10th, confirming it was a car tyre issue

I looked forward to coming here to watch the blinkered masses papering over the fact that Michael drove a shoddy race.

Your logic sees Kubica taking 25 points away from today for his speed in the last 8 laps I guess.

Michael was out of the points while Nico after being delayed by the Massa/Luizzi Lap incident drove an incredibly maure and patient race to rescue more points than the car deserved. He comfortably outqualified Michael after car problems in practice and somehow you see Michael as having done the job this weekend. Well that's a pretty weak summary to a very intriguing weekend.

If we look at the 6:2 drubbing it is fair to say that most of the time Nico has just shaded Michael. Today as at Shnghai, Nico annihilated Michael. But just as telling is that Michael showed he is still prepared to go over the normally accepted level of racing hard. I didn't agree with all Brundle's criticism but Michael driving into Massa in the braking zone was pure filth.

[Kompressor]

Doesn't explain why he used only one set though - a pit stop would have cost him what, 16 seconds? Not bad considering he was losing 4s per lap to the leaders by the end of the race :/ .

The other tires were used in practice and qualifying.

Schumacher and Kubica started on the primes. Schumacher' and Kubica's next set were also the primes. Both drivers finished on the soft tires. Kubica set the fastest lap of the race on his last set of tires but still wasn't able to reel in Rosberg for 6th place.

[Frans]

who is schumi?






hehhee

[Muz Bee]

who is schumi?

hehhee

The number 3 driver at Mercedes.

[tormave]

36 laps on a tyre good for nothing more than 6 laps = disaster waiting to happen. Hence the race winner only running these tyres (and destroying them in the process) for 7 laps...

When MS gets a good score, it's his race craft, ability to build team around him and tactical genius netting the points. When he's on a bad strategy, it's the team's fault and MS has nothing to do with it. After the early stop caused by puncture the strategy he had was the only way to get some points - they took a risk and lost. Boo-hoo.

[RedBaron]

'Good' but messy race for Schumacher, great start got well up the order as we come to expect from him now in comparison to the other side of the Mercedes garage. He defended a little too much against Kubica to his own detriment, which destroyed his hard tyre strategy because of a puncture forcing him to pit. Had to change to the softs too early because of this, stayed on them for longer than anyone else and it showed, similar to how the McLarens were left standing in the first part o the race when their softs went off.

It was a messy showing from Schumacher with a bunch of clashes, but if he hadn't had damage from the Kubica move his result would have been much better, maybe ahead of Rosberg or just one place behind.

Barely saw Rosberg during the race, which was a shame, but with so much action up the front between the top teams that was bound to happen. Solid performance from Nico, good points again.

Edit: Also, this can't really be used as an excuse because Schumacher running so long on the softer tyre was his fault (Kubica incident). But his fastest lap was set much earlier then most other drivers on lap 44, by the time he was at the stage everyone else was pounding round on better tyres/lower fuel/gripy track (Nico lap 66) he had been on those softs for a pretty long time and as we saw had nothing to defend with.

Edited by RedBaron, 14 June 2010 - 05:59.

[britishtrident]

The number 3 driver at Mercedes.

Must have been promoted from his showing at Montreal i got the impression he was hired to drive the transporter.

[Konsta]

Were you watching the race? Schumacher was faster throughout the whole race until he got stuck on soft tyres for THIRTY SEVEN laps...

Then how come Nico managed to drive a 1'17'8 while Michael´s best was 1'19'5? Alternative reality?

[mani1]

Edit: Also, this can't really be used as an excuse because Schumacher running so long on the softer tyre was his fault (Kubica incident).

Wrong.

Schumacher had an extra set of super softs which he could have used during the windows from lap 50-53 (during which time he was quicker than massa,rosberg,hulk,jamie,FI etc). At that time he could have pitted for the new super softs and still come out ahead of hulk, thereby losing NO RACE POSITION. The new super softs would have even made his pace quicker challenging kubica (who then later pitted).

[RedBaron]

But he didn't use them... so he wasn't on fresh rubber when the fuel level was minimal and track optimal. So that is why his race pace seems quite poor in comparison to Rosberg's fastest lap.

If the race had played out how you describe in your post then Schumacher's fastest lap would almost certainly have been more of a match for Rosberg, thus requiring no need for my post at all. But that wasn't what happened in the race, so...

[ivand911]

Forty, look here: http://www.fia.com/e...ace-history.pdf
In lap 24, Michael was driving behind number 17, in lap 25 ,Jaime go to PIT. Lap 26 and 27 he is driving/passing cars 12 and 24. In lap 28 is behind Nico and faster than him. In lap 29 behind Nico and slower than him. From lap 30 to 32 he is behind car 25. When he was driving in free air?

Edited by ivand911, 14 June 2010 - 09:27.

[Onyemaechi]

I didn`t quite understand why Schumi had 31 laps on the supersoft tyres. No one would do 31 laps on supersofts in Monaco and this is Canada!!!!!!
Was that Schumachers or Ross Brawns idea???

[Diablobb81]

Judging by Michaels problems with tires this year i doubt that it was his idea to experiment a 37(?) lap stint on supersofts.

I suspect he ran out of hards and we aren't getting the full story. Especially since there is no logical explanation why he didn't pit for another set of softs. If i recall live timing correctly at one time he had a gap to make another stop.

Edited by Diablobb81, 14 June 2010 - 09:54.

[ivand911]

This is the big question: Why he didn't pit for tires? Any tires better than the set he have. He have time in some stages of the race.

[Big Block 8]

Forty, look here: http://www.fia.com/e...ace-history.pdf
In lap 24, Michael was driving behind number 17, in lap 25 ,Jaime go to PIT. Lap 26 and 27 he is driving/passing cars 12 and 24. In lap 28 is behind Nico and faster than him. In lap 29 behind Nico and slower than him. From lap 30 to 32 he is behind car 25. When he was driving in free air?

Fortymark is right. Lap 23 Nico posted 1.20.5 and lap 24 1.20.6 respectively, while driving 2 seconds behind car 16. In comparison Schumacher posted merely around 1.21.6-1.21.8 during laps 28-32 when he had fresher tires, less fuel, more rubbered in track and at least at some point certainly more clear air than Nico had had during laps 23 and 24.

I felt that Schumacher had been slower than Nico during the race, but I was surprised that on closer look the gap was THAT big.

[ivand911]

Big , in lap 23 and 24 Michael was driving 1 sec. behind Jaime. He was driving with his speed. It is very easily seen on pdf file. About lap 28 -32 read again carefully my last post about laps and check with FIA data. I also felt he was slower than Nico especially in second half of the race, when he was with softer tires for 37 laps. It was very strange. How could he be slower?

Edited by ivand911, 14 June 2010 - 11:24.

[Big Block 8]

Big , in lap 23 and 24 Michael was driving 1 sec. behind Jaime. He was driving with his speed. It is very easily seen on pdf file. About lap 28 -32 read again carefully my last post about laps and check with FIA data. I also felt he was slower than Nico especially in second half of the race, when he was with softer tires for 37 laps. It was very strange. How could he be slower?

Car 25 in front of MS during laps 31-32 would have been blue flagged had it been close enough to slow MS down. So his pace 1.21.6-1.21.7 was genuine (as was his similar pace during laps 28-30) - over a full second slower per lap than Nico during laps 23-24, despite MS having tire, fuel and track advantage.

Granted the gap is so massive that one would assume MS was having a problem of some sort at the time, but have they reported anything? If so I've missed it so far.

Edited by Big Block 8, 14 June 2010 - 11:38.

[ivand911]

The problem is very clear. I was thinking that you understand it. Michael drove 37 laps with soft tires. This tires was good for 6-10 laps. After this you are done. Problem is why he didn't change them, what his pit crew was doing? It was crazy thing somebody to use them for 37 laps. Nobody else did it. What speed you a looking in this tires?

Edited by ivand911, 14 June 2010 - 11:42.

[Fortymark]

Ivand911 is correct that he passed two backmarkers on lap 26 &27 but from lap 29 he´s in free air, Rosberg
is 3 seconds ahead. Lap 30, 31 and 32 all all slower than Rosberg´s times in free air and with less fuel.

By lap 50, Rosberg starts to lap quicker than Schumacher and here´s when everybody in the live forum
wanted MS to pit. It looks like MS would have gotten out behind Buemi if they have pitted him again.
Maybe this was the reason they let him stay out?

[ivand911]

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/84480
They make the stupidest thing in the world for not changing tires. We all see there was very good opportunity for pit stop and exiting before other behind him. There was no reason to stay with this tire, he have enough time. For laps 30-32 there was car number 25 in front of him , after race he said back markers are not slow . In the end it was ruined race, his crew have the biggest fault. For me as fan he didn't lose anything. We see he was faster and slower than Nico this year. Just not lucky enough. Or he is not type to just hang there and to wait to see what will happen.

Edited by ivand911, 14 June 2010 - 11:56.

[darklightx]

Yeah that is pretty silly. Rosberg was more sensible and made no mistakes (and got a deserved result), but was in no way quicker on track at comparable times.

I highly doubt that and I think it would be hard to determine because of mixed strategies and traffic. Fact is in qualifying hes generally being outclassed, and its not getting any better and it wont. You either have it or you dont and he no longer does. Schumacher fans need to start accepting reaility.

[Big Block 8]

The problem is very clear. I was thinking that you understand it. Michael drove 37 laps with soft tires. This tires was good for 6-10 laps. After this you are done. Problem is why he didn't change them, what his pit crew was doing? It was crazy thing somebody to use them for 37 laps. Nobody else did it. What speed you a looking in this tires?

I was just wondering if MS had a car problem during laps 28-32, as he was so much slower than Nico was during laps 23-24.

During MS's long last stint with softs, they probably just thought that the tyre degradation would slow down as the track got more rubbered in, making an additional pitstop more a loss than a gain, but the degradation proved to be more than they thought in the end.

[ivand911]

Next time he beat Nico in qualy , what are you doing? And he show very well in this race start , if he is 2-3 places behind Nico is enough for him to pass him in race. He did this trick 3-4 times this year- Australia, Monaco,Canada. Nico lose places in 80% of the starts this year. Or more.

Edited by ivand911, 14 June 2010 - 12:05.

[darklightx]

How many more times will nico have to destroy michael for you people ot realise he no longer has the magic? He has been slow this year. At Turkey he was a chicane and slowed down his team mate all race, then we hear the excuse that Michael was saving tyres all race, while the cars infront of him vanished. What was he saving them for? the next race?

[Fortymark]

Nico really needs to practise his starts, they have been awful.
He usually misses a couple of positions that he has worked hard for in
qualifying. Schumacher on the other hand has gained massively in
his starts. Schumacher´s starts have saved him a lot the year imo.

[ivand911]

In the end his good starts didn't help him much. He didn't get any points for it.