359 replies to this topic

[Sakae]

MiPe

See:


13.1 Applications to compete in the Championship may be submitted to the FIA during the period 30 June to 15 July inclusive of the year prior to the year to which the application relates on an entry form as set out in Appendix 2 hereto accompanied by an undertaking to pay the entry fee of €309,000 (three hundred and nine thousand Euros) (as may be amended in accordance with The 2009 Concorde Agreement) to the FIA no later than 1 November of the year prior to the year to which the application relates. Applications at other times will only be considered if a place is available and on payment of a late entry fee to be fixed by the FIA. Entry forms will be made available by the FIA who will notify the applicant of the result of the application within thirty days of its receipt. Successful applicants are automatically entered in all Events of the Championship and will be the only competitors at Events.


and:


13.5 All applications will be studied by the FIA and accepted or rejected, subject to the provisions of The 2009 Concorde Agreement. The FIA will publish the list of cars and drivers accepted together with their race numbers on or before 30 November of the year prior to the year to which the applications relate, having first notified unsuccessful applicants as set out in Article 13.1. Out-of-time applications will be considered separately.

I'm not in agreement with slowin... but he's right with this one - the FIA can consider entries as and when it wants.

Sorry for missing this, but it's mute point now anyway.

[scolbourne]

It would have been much simpler if they had simply renamed Toyota to Stefan ,as similar to what several other teams have done this season .

Was the problem that Toyota pulled out publicly at a very early stage ? No one is questioning Virgin or HRT

[Captain Tightpants]

It would have been much simpler if they had simply renamed Toyota to Stefan ,as similar to what several other teams have done this season .

Was the problem that Toyota pulled out publicly at a very early stage ? No one is questioning Virgin or HRT

The problem was that Toyota let their claim to a grid entry lapse. When they pulled out, they wanted to distance themselves from the sport and made it known that the team would not be sold on. Yes, they sold to Stefanovic, but it seems they didn't want to have someone pick up their pieces and pull a Brawn.

[Talryyn]

The problem was that Toyota let their claim to a grid entry lapse. When they pulled out, they wanted to distance themselves from the sport and made it known that the team would not be sold on. Yes, they sold to Stefanovic, but it seems they didn't want to have someone pick up their pieces and pull a Brawn.

Well multiple rumors point to USF1 going to TMG to bid on things, and walked away from it. So I think Toyota justed wanted to get something back for what they did this year. Since they are keeping TMG they hope to build cars for other series and/or do design work. I do not think Toyota did anything with Stefan for the sole purpose of having a Brawn pulled on them. Plus Brawn had his hand in the development of the car, directing the staff, etc before Honda pulled out. The Toyota might be quick, but they did not do what Brawn did to take the gamble of the extra dev time. Ferrari has done that gamble this year, with McLaren being next.

I do think it is reckless to allow Stefan on the grid, unless we knew for sure what kind of race team he had in place. Taking his family and closest friends to change tires would be far from safe, we have no clue what assets he really has in place.

[VAR1016]

Does anyone know if those crates/containers have turned up at Bahrain?

[Captain Tightpants]

Well multiple rumors point to USF1 going to TMG to bid on things, and walked away from it.

I heard they turned it down because they didn't think the TF110 was as good as the Type 1.

[NightProwler]

I heard they turned it down because they didn't think the TF110 was as good as the Type 1.

Sounds like another top quality Ken Anderson decision, but im sure he consulted Jason beforehand

[Lazarus II]

Well multiple rumors point to USF1 going to TMG to bid on things, and walked away from it. So I think Toyota justed wanted to get something back for what they did this year. Since they are keeping TMG they hope to build cars for other series and/or do design work. I do not think Toyota did anything with Stefan for the sole purpose of having a Brawn pulled on them. Plus Brawn had his hand in the development of the car, directing the staff, etc before Honda pulled out. The Toyota might be quick, but they did not do what Brawn did to take the gamble of the extra dev time. Ferrari has done that gamble this year, with McLaren being next.

I do think it is reckless to allow Stefan on the grid, unless we knew for sure what kind of race team he had in place. Taking his family and closest friends to change tires would be far from safe, we have no clue what assets he really has in place.

Weren't those rumors based on a 'recent' trip; i.e. USF1 would've already been strapped with a Cosworth contract and had to accept a Toyota engine contract as well.

IMO - I would agree w/Whitmarsh in that the 'new' teams should have approached Toyota prior to beginning design on their cars, but then there's the nasty rumor that Max demanded they all commit to Cosworth if they were to receive an entry. If that's true then that would make some sense.

[FerrariF1Fan]

according to JPEGsnoop, which is basically an image processing and analyzing software, the image displayed on AMCO' page, on which a wind mil component with AMCO written on it is pictured has been digitally processed

Also i would like to support my claim with this

Signature: 01C26040DB5181BA3B5CD7A813FAD209
Signature (Rotated): 01C26040DB5181BA3B5CD7A813FAD209
File Offset: 0 bytes
Chroma subsampling: 1x1
EXIF Make/Model: NONE
EXIF Makernotes: NONE
EXIF Software: NONE

Searching Compression Signatures: (3327 built-in, 0 user(*) )

EXIF.Make / Software EXIF.Model Quality Subsamp Match?
------------------------- ----------------------------------- ---------------- --------------
SW :[Adobe Photoshop ] [Save For Web 060]

NOTE: Photoshop IRB detected
Based on the analysis of compression characteristics and EXIF metadata:

ASSESSMENT: Class 1 - Image is processed/edited

The guy is a sham, and his whole operation is a sham. Good for FIA for not granting him the right to compete.

EDIT:

I have also sent an e-mail to the parent company of Ariane space missions regarding AMCOs involvement in Ariane 5 space mission (i.e. component manufacturing). I hope to hear from them soon.

Show me one picture on a company site that was not processed before being allowed in the public domain.

[r4mses]

Show me one picture on a company site that was not processed before being allowed in the public domain.

True.

But after I read this, I have serious doubts about StefanGP's respectability. Don't know if that has been posted before, quite interesting read.

[Nustang70]

I heard they turned it down because they didn't think the TF110 was as good as the Type 1.

Where did you hear that? Insane if true.

[Captain Tightpants]

Where did you hear that? Insane if true.

Adam Cooper's F1 blog, I think.

And given the hijinks and lowjinks surrounding the fortunes of the team, "insane" is definately a worthy adjective to describe it. Of course, that assumes that a) the TF110 was actually better than the Type 1 and b) Windsor and Anderson knew it and decided against it anyway.

[Muz Bee]

Insane - how does a public claim by a figure not part of the F1 camp of being ready to go racing, equate to arriving in 10 days time for first practice in Bahrain???

How does their claim better qualify them for the so called "vacant" position on the grid than other applicants???

This forum is open to everyone's opinion but I have to think about the level of reason on this forum. Do we so need 26 cars over 24 cars that we should accept two unproven cars which have never turned a wheel in anger????

With the old 107% qualifying rule away in the cupboard what sort of mayhem would we have seen if this double absurdity were to occur next week???

Would the same people in favour of this unproven "team" be attacking the FIA and Todt if the dream turned into another fiasco like USF1 or Campos? I think they would - along with me.

[Rinehart]

Would the same people in favour of this unproven "team" be attacking the FIA and Todt if the dream turned into another fiasco like USF1 or Campos? I think they would - along with me.

[Tract1on]

"Apparently" Stefan GP is in Bahrain and "ready to roll"... according to Mike Lawrence

http://www.pitpass.c...eature_item.php

(page 4...)

Assuming this is true it seems he hasnt given up quite yet!

[Talryyn]

Stefan always said see you in Bahrain when he had no entry, so I really expect no different from him now. FP1 is going to be interesting, Bernie will be pushing the SF1 (whatever the name is) into the USF1 garage, and Jean Todt will be pushing as hard as he can to keep the car out of the garage. It will be age vs size that decides if Stefan races or not. I admit that I think Ferrari will come over and help Todt push though.

[Tract1on]

I assume this was reported a while back but EJ still talking about Stefan GP in the BBC 2010 preview:

http://news.bbc.co.u...one/8540437.stm

I wonder if there is some last ditch effort to get Stefan on the grid?

Edited by Tract1on, 08 March 2010 - 14:03.

[Radoye]

I assume this was reported a while back but EJ still talking about Stefan GP in the BBC 2010 preview:

http://news.bbc.co.u...one/8540437.stm

I wonder if there is some last ditch effort to get Stefan on the grid?

It's probably just an old piece being rehashed by the BBC editors. This part:

If we assume that US F1 do not make the grid and that Stefan Grand Prix take over their entry with Toyota's car

It is clear this was written sometimes before the FIA decision on the final entry list for this season. We now don't have to assume USF1 won't make it, we know it for certain.

[Tract1on]

Yer, noticed that just after i posted it. Too lazy to edit my post though
Still would be funny to see Stefan GP turn up and try to muscle their way in

It's probably just an old piece being rehashed by the BBC editors. This part:



It is clear this was written sometimes before the FIA decision on the final entry list for this season. We now don't have to assume USF1 won't make it, we know it for certain.

Edited by Tract1on, 08 March 2010 - 16:00.

[angst]

according to JPEGsnoop, which is basically an image processing and analyzing software, the image displayed on AMCO' page, on which a wind mil component with AMCO written on it is pictured has been digitally processed

Also i would like to support my claim with this

Signature: 01C26040DB5181BA3B5CD7A813FAD209
Signature (Rotated): 01C26040DB5181BA3B5CD7A813FAD209
File Offset: 0 bytes
Chroma subsampling: 1x1
EXIF Make/Model: NONE
EXIF Makernotes: NONE
EXIF Software: NONE

Searching Compression Signatures: (3327 built-in, 0 user(*) )

EXIF.Make / Software EXIF.Model Quality Subsamp Match?
------------------------- ----------------------------------- ---------------- --------------
SW :[Adobe Photoshop ] [Save For Web 060]

NOTE: Photoshop IRB detected
Based on the analysis of compression characteristics and EXIF metadata:

ASSESSMENT: Class 1 - Image is processed/edited

The guy is a sham, and his whole operation is a sham. Good for FIA for not granting him the right to compete.

EDIT:

I have also sent an e-mail to the parent company of Ariane space missions regarding AMCOs involvement in Ariane 5 space mission (i.e. component manufacturing). I hope to hear from them soon.

from Here

Meanwhile, Arianespace, the company that takes care of the Ariane rocket development, declined any claims from AMCO. Mario Delepine said: "After careful review of all supplier lists, we cannot establish any link of our organization with the Serbian company AMCO. It has nothing to do with the success of Ariane 5 project, nor generally with us as the world leader in the field of launch service providers."

[Lazarus II]

Where did you hear that? Insane if true.

I think it's missing just a few bits of pertinent info.

Adam Cooper's F1 blog, I think.

And given the hijinks and lowjinks surrounding the fortunes of the team, "insane" is definately a worthy adjective to describe it. Of course, that assumes that a) the TF110 was actually better than the Type 1 and b) Windsor and Anderson knew it and decided against it anyway.

As those rumors were based on a recent visit - you failed to accept that USF1 was already saddled with (not that the Cossie seems bad, but) accepting Max's 'Cosworth engines only' requirement; you know, pesky existing contracts and all that.

A team that needed money was hardly in a position to have two engine contracts; a) it's probably in conflict w/the contract(s). b) they could never have paid both.

Who cares if the TF110 was better or not; it had nothing to do with it. An existing conflicting engine contract would have stopped them straight in their tracks. The ship sailed long ago to use the Toyota....like pre-entry as they were already committed to Cosworth, just like everyone else (new teams).

[Radoye]

from Here

Meanwhile, Arianespace, the company that takes care of the Ariane rocket development, declined any claims from AMCO. Mario Delepine said: "After careful review of all supplier lists, we cannot establish any link of our organization with the Serbian company AMCO. It has nothing to do with the success of Ariane 5 project, nor generally with us as the world leader in the field of launch service providers."

According to a post made on a Serbian F1 forum by an alleged spokesperson for AMCO/Stefan, the people who later founded AMCO indeed worked on components for the Ariane program about 7 years ago, in a Serbian firm called PPT (Prva Petoletka Trstenik).

They also say they also supplied one F1 team - they did not want to name which one exactly - with pneumatic valves while at PPT, for the 1997 season.

It seems that the team responsible for carrying these tasks out at PPT has left the company and went on to join AMCO.

PPT is a huge government-owned company specializing into hydraulics and pneumatics, back before the Yugoslav wars they were not far off the global cutting edge in the field and co-operated with many high profile companies like Boeing and others. It has since fallen on hard times but it is still around.

This information, if correct, would establish some credibility for these claims on the AMCO website. It would also explain why the Ariane and Bundeswehr folks never heard of AMCO - because back then they have dealt with PPT.

However it is still ethically questionable, to put it mildly, why didn't AMCO explained on their website the exact nature of their connection to these projects, instead it looks like they tried to imply as if it was their own company that carried them out.

[Fortymark]

Who cares if they had/have some employee that worked directly or
indirectly with parts to an rocket?!
What the heck does that got to do with F1, or racing cars?!
Are they trying to prove they have technicians? Ok, it´s hard
to build an F1 car without them...

No no no, prove that you are a racing team. start in the lower formulas and
work upwards. Build your own car from scratch, without using a single
part from an old design.

Bringing these "vultures" as Ferrari called them is not good for the sport!

[Captain Tightpants]

Who cares if they had/have some employee that worked directly or
indirectly with parts to an rocket?!
What the heck does that got to do with F1, or racing cars?!

It's more of a question as to whether or not he actually worked on the rocket at all.

[Radoye]

It's more of a question as to whether or not he actually worked on the rocket at all.

It's still a matter of do you want to take their word for it or not - you can't prove it conclusively one way or another.

But at least now with this PPT connection the story sounds a bit more plausible - PPT are certainly capable of producing world class hydraulics/pneumatics components and have done so in the past.

Someone should ask those folks at EADS if they cooperated with PPT (since they already say they didn't cooperate with AMCO) but even then it wouldn't be a conclusive proof since there's no way to prove that the people who worked on the rocket at PPT are indeed the very same who later founded and now work for AMCO.

But again, if (say) i worked for Ferrari then went on to work for Tata (or some other similar producer of low budget cars - with all due respect), that doesn't mean Tata should now put a picture of a Ferrari car on their website and say their company built it.

In any case, this version of their story makes some sense. It's a whole another thing if one wants to believe it or not...

[Captain Tightpants]

In any case, this version of their story makes some sense. It's a whole another thing if one wants to believe it or not...

Evidently the FIA felt that the situation with Stefan was a little too complex to be thoroughly examined in just one week. Especially since any slip-ups on their part would undo a lot of Jean Todt's work to date. I think he made the right decision in choosing the FIA's long-term stability and credibility over having an extra team on the grid. After all, it's not like we're being short-changed - even without USF1/Stefan, there are still more cars in 2010 than there were last year.

[Jboranovich]

Evidently the FIA felt that the situation with Stefan was a little too complex to be thoroughly examined in just one week. Especially since any slip-ups on their part would undo a lot of Jean Todt's work to date. I think he made the right decision in choosing the FIA's long-term stability and credibility over having an extra team on the grid. After all, it's not like we're being short-changed - even without USF1/Stefan, there are still more cars in 2010 than there were last year.

Well, the FIA have proven to be incompetent in choosing new teams. They chose USF1, despite the fact that EVERYONE knew they would fail. Stefan GP have Toyota IP, which makes them a million times better than any other new entrant. Who knows, Toyota could be the Honda of 2010, in which case, the FIA have excluded the best car from the grid. Is this in the best interests of F1? Of course not.

Let's be honest here. The FIA excluded Stefan GP because Stefan GP took the FIA to court. If they were nice to the FIA, they would have included them. Todt is Mosley. This is why Mosley wanted Todt to take over. Mini Mosley made sure that Stefan failed.

[Rob]

work upwards. Build your own car from scratch, without using a single
part from an old design.

Bringing these "vultures" as Ferrari called them is not good for the sport!

Ferrari bought out Lancia and entered their design in the championship. If Stefan are vultures then so are Ferrari.

[Radoye]

Evidently the FIA felt that the situation with Stefan was a little too complex to be thoroughly examined in just one week. Especially since any slip-ups on their part would undo a lot of Jean Todt's work to date. I think he made the right decision in choosing the FIA's long-term stability and credibility over having an extra team on the grid. After all, it's not like we're being short-changed - even without USF1/Stefan, there are still more cars in 2010 than there were last year.

Agreed!

[PayasYouRace]

Well, the FIA have proven to be incompetent in choosing new teams. They chose USF1, despite the fact that EVERYONE knew they would fail. Stefan GP have Toyota IP, which makes them a million times better than any other new entrant. Who knows, Toyota could be the Honda of 2010, in which case, the FIA have excluded the best car from the grid. Is this in the best interests of F1? Of course not.

Let's be honest here. The FIA excluded Stefan GP because Stefan GP took the FIA to court. If they were nice to the FIA, they would have included them. Todt is Mosley. This is why Mosley wanted Todt to take over. Mini Mosley made sure that Stefan failed.

Exaggerate much?

USF1 seemed perfectly viable until after the 2009 season finished, and still appeared to be able to make it in January. Since then it fell apart. So EVERYONE didn't "know" they'd fail. As to Toyota, IP is just information. What you do with that information is another matter. There has been nothing from StefanGP to show they could exploit that information to its maximum. Therefore even if Toyota were on to a winner, the develpment of the car stopped and we have know way of knowing if Stefan could continue it in any way. It is not the same as Honda, who actively made sure that the team would continue.

Let's actually be honest here. The FIA rejected StefanGP because StefanGP did not meet the requirements. They still have not shown any evidence of meeting the requirements. Todt is not Mosely. He's making an effort to run the FIA by the book. Stefan had no right to be entered in the championship, especially with only two weeks before the start with no evidence of a team or equipment.

[lgbalch]

"Apparently" Stefan GP is in Bahrain and "ready to roll"... according to Mike Lawrence

http://www.pitpass.c...eature_item.php

(page 4...)

Your link is no good. Please expand on what Mike Lawrence said.

[Radoye]

Your link is no good. Please expand on what Mike Lawrence said.

here's the correct link.
http://www.pitpass.c...es_art_id=40067

[Captain Tightpants]

Here's an idea I had: let them run.

Here's the catch: they can't score points.

Stefan want to be a Formula 1 team. They want to race. They claim they have the money and the facilities in place to do it. There are simply questions hovering over their integrity. So let them race for a year. They wouldn't have to sign the Concorde Agreement, though they would have to play by the same rules as everyone else. However, they wouldn't be eligible to score championship points, and nor would they be able to receive a cut of television rights after the season. But they would get to race, kind of like an audition. After a certain amount of time, we could then re-assess them.

[VAR1016]

Ferrari bought out Lancia and entered their design in the championship. If Stefan are vultures then so are Ferrari.

Not exactly. In fact the Lancia material was offered - and given - to Ferrari together with financial support from FIAT.

[dau]

here's the correct link.
http://www.pitpass.c...es_art_id=40067

Fun read. Kinda like F1 fanfiction, but still..

"A British national newspaper, The Daily Mail, carried a story which said that as Windsor was getting into his car one evening after work at Williams, a van drove up, large men grabbed him and bundled him into the back of a van. Mechanics ran out to remonstrate, but held back when someone wielded what appeared to be a firearm.

The van drove to a quiet place, one of the debt collectors driving Windsor's BMW behind. It appears they were enthusiasts for baseball, which is unusual in Sarff Lunnen. They had brought the bats, but forgot the ball, so they improvised. 'Nothing personal, Mr Windsor, just doing our jobs.'

Windsor did not report the incident to the police."

[LuckyStrike1]

Here's an idea I had: let them run.

Here's the catch: they can't score points.

Stefan want to be a Formula 1 team. They want to race. They claim they have the money and the facilities in place to do it. There are simply questions hovering over their integrity. So let them race for a year. They wouldn't have to sign the Concorde Agreement, though they would have to play by the same rules as everyone else. However, they wouldn't be eligible to score championship points, and nor would they be able to receive a cut of television rights after the season. But they would get to race, kind of like an audition. After a certain amount of time, we could then re-assess them.

Either you have team and drivers who compete against the other teams and drivers or you don't have the team and driver at all.

[Lifew12]

Let's be honest here. The FIA excluded Stefan GP because Stefan GP took the FIA to court. If they were nice to the FIA, they would have included them.

Some people still, apprently, don't get it. Let's go over it again. The FIA rejected Stefan GP THEN Stefan tried to take the FIA to court. That was months ago. the FIA did not, in any way, shape or form, 'reject' Stefan GP last week - they couldn't, as they were not entered and had not tendered an entry. To 'reject' Stefan GP the FIA would have had to open the tendering process again - once USF1 had rescinded its entry (which it still has not) and considered the entry as a viable concern. If you read the FIA's press release they make it clear that there is no time to find a replacement - the reason is there is no time to go through the process prior to the start of the season. There isn't some nasty anti-Stefan GP stance going on here (although i have to admit Stefanovic's behaviour will not have endeared him to the authorities - after all, if you don't have a ticket to teh event you go to the box office, rather than trying to kick the door in) it's simply the situation as it is: Stefan GP was never entered, therefore could not be either 'accepted' or 'rejected'.

Anyone with any sense knows that to get an entry Stefanovic had to buy one; he didn't, probably because he couldn't.

[alfa1]

USF1 seemed perfectly viable until after the 2009 season finished, and still appeared to be able to make it in January.

Let's actually be honest here.

With statements like the first one, you're in no position to demand honesty.

September - A poll starts on here. 'Will USF1 make it to the 2010 grid?' A majority vote NO.
October - satirical videos start to appear on youtube regarding their lack of progress.
By late October, typical forum posts are 'What do we have? A picture of 4 people looking at pictures on a screen. ' and 'USF1 will not appear at the first 2010 GP, unless they win the lottery. '
By early November 'Ross Brawn has expressed surprise at the news that USF1, one of three start-up new teams for the 2010 season, has not yet commenced internal crash-testing of components.'
Mid December, Bernie Ecclestone was saying he didnt expect USF1 to make it in time.
and
so
on
it
goes
In reality, very very few people ever thought they were 'viable' at ANY stage of their development.

[Captain Tightpants]

Either you have team and drivers who compete against the other teams and drivers or you don't have the team and driver at all.

Hey, it lets Stefan race, gives us a full grid, keeps the teams happy and stops FOM from having to shell out extra cash.

[LuckyStrike1]

Hey, it lets Stefan race, gives us a full grid, keeps the teams happy and stops FOM from having to shell out extra cash.

I think that would just kill the credibility for F1 as a sport in any shape and form.

If a competitor can't be allowed to compete they shouldn't be allowed to participate. That should be a simple rule of thumb.

[Captain Tightpants]

They'd be allowed to race; they just wouldn't be able to score points for themselves. Their drivers would be eligible, but not the team. If the FIA allowed it, I think Stefan would take it.

[LuckyStrike1]

I think it would be a crappy solution. If you can't allow them to score if the possibility to score is there then they shouldn't be on the grid in the first place.

[EthanM]

They'd be allowed to race; they just wouldn't be able to score points for themselves. Their drivers would be eligible, but not the team. If the FIA allowed it, I think Stefan would take it.

and what if a wing from the stefan cars flies of cause they have no clue how to maintain them and ends somebody else's race? (and I m avoiding getting too morbid here)

You can't let just anybody that says they have an F1 car in to race, it'd invalidate 30 years of progress

[lgbalch]

With statements like the first one, you're in no position to demand honesty.

September - A poll starts on here. 'Will USF1 make it to the 2010 grid?' A majority vote NO.

A majority had not voted NO in September. There were more YES votes than NO up until some time in January.

[lgbalch]

I am amazed at the number of people on this forum who seem to be taking Stefan GP seriously. Methinks it is as phony as a 3-dollar bill. I think it has all the characteristics of a con job by a self-promoter. Too much that smells here.

Look, for example, at AMCO. A web site with a strange selection of photos, one of which (the only one showing a product with their name) doctored; reference to companies they've supposedly worked with, none of which have heard of them; for all their claimed background and expertise, they haven't hired anyone that can write proper English for a web site, even though that is now an important image most companies present to customers and investors. Top it all off with the report from Serbia that it has one employee and no real capitalization (and no, "holding company" does not explain that).

We've seen lots of photos of Z Stefanovic, often hanging around the Toyota factory. Where are pictures of the car? Of workers? Of the shop interior? Of the crates being loaded for Bahrain? Of anything really relating to anything they claim? At least with USF1 we saw some of that. (We did see a picture of a Toyota truck and trailer with Stefan's name on it -- also Photoshopped?)

Their car was supposedly crash-tested, but they wouldn't say where. They were going to test in February, and never showed--"no tires".

In short, lots of talk, lots of pics and bragging about ZS himself, but nothing substantial actually seen or verified by independent observers. Con job. We'll hear more about this, starting with no one being able to find the containers in Bahrain. Stefan GP will say they turned the ship around when the FIA said no go, and lots of people on this forum will believe them and continue to rant about FIA dirty deeds.

[Lazarus II]

Fun read. Kinda like F1 fanfiction, but still..

"A British national newspaper, The Daily Mail, carried a story which said that as Windsor was getting into his car one evening after work at Williams, a van drove up, large men grabbed him and bundled him into the back of a van. Mechanics ran out to remonstrate, but held back when someone wielded what appeared to be a firearm.

The van drove to a quiet place, one of the debt collectors driving Windsor's BMW behind. It appears they were enthusiasts for baseball, which is unusual in Sarff Lunnen. They had brought the bats, but forgot the ball, so they improvised. 'Nothing personal, Mr Windsor, just doing our jobs.'

Windsor did not report the incident to the police."

Not like fanfiction, but definitely fanfiction. If there was any truth to it, Windsor would be dead or at very minimum severly hospitalized for his inability to fight like Tyson (a young one) or run like Bolt. Baseball bats do life threatening damage. They are not for trying to get across a message (like - pony up or else).

[lgbalch]

Not like fanfiction, but definitely fanfiction. If there was any truth to it, Windsor would be dead or at very minimum severly hospitalized for his inability to fight like Tyson (a young one) or run like Bolt. Baseball bats do life threatening damage. They are not for trying to get across a message (like - pony up or else).

Doesn't anyone ever get beat up with cricket bats?

[Rob]

and what if a wing from the stefan cars flies of cause they have no clue how to maintain them and ends somebody else's race? (and I m avoiding getting too morbid here)

Like Brawn not securing a weighty spring properly, eh?

[PayasYouRace]

With statements like the first one, you're in no position to demand honesty.

September - A poll starts on here. 'Will USF1 make it to the 2010 grid?' A majority vote NO.
October - satirical videos start to appear on youtube regarding their lack of progress.
By late October, typical forum posts are 'What do we have? A picture of 4 people looking at pictures on a screen. ' and 'USF1 will not appear at the first 2010 GP, unless they win the lottery. '
By early November 'Ross Brawn has expressed surprise at the news that USF1, one of three start-up new teams for the 2010 season, has not yet commenced internal crash-testing of components.'
Mid December, Bernie Ecclestone was saying he didnt expect USF1 to make it in time.
and
so
on
it
goes
In reality, very very few people ever thought they were 'viable' at ANY stage of their development.

But the statement I replied to was the claim that "EVERYONE" (complete with shouty capital letters) knew that they would fail. Even a majority against is not everyone.

[EthanM]

Like Brawn not securing a weighty spring properly, eh?

and you know Ross Brawn, and he had a team of experienced people, can you say the same for Stefan? And don't say "ex-toyota" cause pretty much all the Toyota personnel went to Lotus