42 replies to this topic

[Rainer Nyberg]

I am sure most know about the roof-top test-track in Turin on the FIAT factory in use ca 1920-1980.

This is famous from many movies. ("The Italian Job" and others)

It has the nickname "Il Lingotto" (The Loaf).

Just curious of someone know if it was ever used for competition events or just testing ?



Rainer

[ZippyD]

Rainer,
I'm not sure if it was used in competition or not but it was used by FIAT in TV advertising here in the states in the 70s. I remember Reme Jullian(sp?) doing some jumps off the building in a 131 sedan. "I'm Remey Jullian. I am a stunt driver."
Good stuff!!!
Oh, will FIAT ever come back to the states? I miss my 128 Rally and my 124 spider.

[MattFoster]

Ah, FIAT 128s were a joy to drive. I loved my 128SL coupe.

Cheers
Matt

[Rainer Nyberg]

Wow....didn´t know the 128 was available in US...
Or rather I didn´t know people in US bought them...!



Rainer[p][Edited by Rainer Nyberg on 11-22-2000]

[MattFoster]

Woo Hoo That 128SL is just like my old one except that the yellow paint was faded on mine

Cheers
Matt

[alessandro silva]

Rainer, I can be definite about the fact that the rooftop piste has never been used for racing.
I hope you do not mind if I tell you that Lingotto does not mean "loaf" but "metal bar" used mainly for gold. I think the word "ingot" also exists in English with the same meaning.
In this case Lingotto is the name of the neighbourhood probably from earlier ironworks that were there in the XIX century.
btw. I always thought that the 128 was a lousy car. I am maybe wrong but certainly we are used to much better things around here!

[ZippyD]

Rainer,
FIAT was never that popular in the good ol' US of A although people did buy them. The 128 sedan was sold from about 1971-2 to about 1978 when it was replaced by the 2 box design Ritmo. When I bought my 128 Rally in 1977 I think there were only 3,000 sold that year. The 128sl in the picture shown above was called the 3P in the states. I think Keir almost bought one. Keir???? They also sold the 131 sedan, the 124 coupe and spider, the 850 spider and the X1/9. FIATs were not the best cars in the world but they had a great charm and personality about them that endeared them to my heart. I miss them very much!!!!!

[Keir]

The Fiat I almost bought was the 128SL, it had the heel & toe pedal arrangement and was quite the good looking car The 3P never looked as good with it's odd three taillight look. I had a love/hate affair with the Zip's 128, it had all the proper spirit, but an awful driving position. Anything over 20 or so miles behind the wheel and I'd be totally knackered, which didn't bode well for those return trips from the "Glen"!!!!
But in closing, I did enjoy the my time in the car, back in the good old days.[p][Edited by Keir on 11-28-2000]

[MattFoster]

One thing that I regretted doing with the 128Sl I had was not putting an X1/9 5 speed in it.

Cheers
Matt

[Falcadore]

The FIAT racetrack rooftop factory was featured in one of the episodes of 'The Power and The Glory' BBC documentary series of Motor Racing.

[Barry Lake]

In July 1999 I went to Italy for the 100th anniversary of Fiat and we stayed in the original Lingotto building, which now is a modern hotel, shopping arcade (some great model cars, books, Ferrari memorabilia etc, as well as jewellery, clothes and luggage I could never afford to buy), conference centre, and - I think - offices for the top management once again.

They were driving cars from the museum around the old banked track on the roof, but it sppears it was mainly for VIPs (perhaps some well known journalists, but I don't think so) and upper level management etc.

We didn't even get to go up there at any stage. But I did see it from a distance, with the old cars trundling around the track.

[ZippyD]

Originally posted by Keir
I had a love/hate affair with the Zip's 128, it had all the proper spirit, but an awful driving position. Anything over 20 or so miles behind the wheel and I'd be totally knackered, which didn't bode well for those return trips from the "Glen"!!!![p][Edited by Keir on 11-28-2000]

Keir,
What are you talking about "knackered after 20 miles or so."
The 128 was one of the more comfortable cars to take on those long trips to the Glen. And just remember all the beer and "other" stuff we could fit in the trunk, out of sight from prying eyes.
It was a hell of allot better than the Datsun B210s we had. My right knee would ache for weeks after taking either of those cars to the Glen.
And what awful driving position? Arms almost straight out and legs splayed? A classic driving position in my book.
Perhaps your memory is going soft after all these years??
Get with the program, SLACKER!!!!!

[Keir]

Zip,
I was always quite comfortable in the passenger seat with my trusty handrail always to the ready. You see, If I got the seat to the right distance for my legs, then the wheel was too close and the angle was more like "Luigi's bus service" then "classic Farina". It must be an Italian thing. The Datsun was always a little too small for tall drivers and as you know, that's not one of my problems.

[MattFoster]

The 128SL was great on long drives with the handy hand throttle it had. As for the driving position, I thought it was perfect, and I'm 6' tall.

Cheers
Matt


[p][Edited by MattFoster on 11-28-2000]

[Keir]

You tall drivers are all alike.
Forza the vertically challenged!!!

[ZippyD]

That's telling him Matt!!!!!
Vertically chalanged indeed.

Matt, yours had a hand throttle? Was it like cruise control?

[MattFoster]

Yes Zippy it was a kind of crude cruise control, it was like pulling the choke. I used it a few times on the highway.

Cheers
Matt

[Ray Bell]

All of this with a stroke so short you'd think it was a GP engine!
Did you know you could get a Colotti version of the five speed with Hewland-like dog engagement and interchangeable ratios? It was a rally car option....

[ZippyD]

Ray,
You're right. It was a magnificent engine. Silky smooth, 1.3 liters. It could rev to 7,000 rpm without blinking an eye. And with the lack of down low torque it often did. Not allot of power, I think the US version only put out 62 BHP, but a pleasure to feel and oh what a sound it made pushed to the limit. A little jewel of an engine!!! And regardless of what Keir says it was a very comfortable car to drive long distances.

[Ray Bell]

Also suffered from not having dowelled main bearing caps.
Maybe it didn't suffer much, though.
That gearbox must have been a beauty.

[MattFoster]

I'm sure it would have been a great gearbox, the enigine was
brilliant.

I loved pushing it around the twisty stuff. Shame it was front wheel drive though.


Cheers
Matt

[ZippyD]

Matt,
The 128 taught me the difference between road holding and handling. I've never driven a car that could stick to the road like the 128. As far as handling went it took a long time to get used to the car leaning over like it did. I once saw a picture of myself in the 128 going through a turn at an autocross. I would swear the car was over about 10-12%.
I can still remember Keir holding on for dear life as he saw the pavement getting closer to the passenger door as I ripped around the roads in Jersey City. Great stuff!!!!

BTW - Did your car loose oil pressure going around long right hand turns?

[MattFoster]

I think it did!!!

You are not worng about the 128's ability to stick to the road. I was like driving on rails. I would love to find one and restore it preferably with rally bits.


Cheers
Matt

[Ray Bell]

Like the French, who realise that well damped soft springing with long travel gives comfort with road holding. I didn't think Fiats were into that?
Maybe I'm too used to thinking 124S when I think Fiat. And rust...

[jarama]

ZippyD,

My first car was a Seat (Fiat licensed) 127, and in hard cornering suffered the same trouble of loosing oil pressure.

[Ray Bell]

So the oil pump pickup was at the flywheel end of the engine?

[MattFoster]

I think you must be Ray.

The 128SL was a great little car and I have driven several other FIAT including the 124 Sport. I acknowledge that FIATs like other Italian cars of the era suffered from rust but it doesn't take away from the fact that they were good vehicles

Cheers
Matt

[Ray Bell]

Oh, you're just trying to build up Alfas, aren't you?
Did I tell you about Ken Owers?
He bought a Guilia after Businello and Sach won at Sandown, still has it.

[Wolf]

Well, it looks like there's another thread where I can share my enthusiasm for Fiats. Albeit, mine is 126(p). Great little car, a bit down in engine department, but likes the wet road (just the way I like it ).

[Ray Bell]

Australian Fiats tend to get a good drink on wet roads... the water gets in all the rust holes.

[Wolf]

Ray, AFAIK, Fiats were never srong on quality. BTW, you should see mine... rust, rust and a little paint holding it together (not that bad, but pretty bad).

[MattFoster]

Of Course I am talking up Alfas but it is true what I say isn't it???

I would love a Giulia Ti beautiful creature that is.

And I have seen my fair share of rusted Pugs too

Cheers
Matt

[Ray Bell]

You're right, 404s were bad for it, 505s are too, and 504s, but they all got older than the 203s did before the holes came through. Quality improvements all the time.
For instance, my 1956 203 had to go off the road by 1969, just 13 years old, while my present 504 is fine at 18 years. And it's done 630,000kms, too.

[MattFoster]

I suspect that Italian cars of rect vintage won't suffer the same fate as the 70's & 80's cousins

Cheers
Matt

[Keir]

Hey all you tall drivers, I loved the Fiat 128 as much as the rest of you. It just wasn't my cup of tea as far as driving position goes, which as we all know is very important.
But being in the passenger seat was a fun experience, those Italian cars could lean. It just goes to show how little the American cars makers understood about ride vs handling.

[MattFoster]

Keir,

We are all build differently, I am surprised that a vertically challenged person would have a problem with Italian car driving positions, most of the time it is the tall drivers that suffered from italian cars.


Cheers
Matt

[Ray Bell]

And the fat pedestrians....

[MattFoster]

Pedestrians can make their own arrangments, fat or otherwise!!!

Cheers
Matt

[ZippyD]

As far as rust goes I know early FIATs were prone to it but then again so were just about every car sold before 1975. My 1977 FIAT 128 had about 3/4 of an inch(2cm for you metric types) of sticky, tar-like undercoating on it that went up about 6 inches(15cm) along the side of the car. Rust never stood a chance. The only rust I had was around the passenger side head lamp and that was because I tried to go through a wall one night and put a nice dent in the fender. There is a great picture of the 128 with Keir, doing his Peter Egan impersonation, and his attempt at body work. We'll have to try and get it scanned so you can see the picture.
My 1971 124 spider had some rust around the wheel wells and rocker panels.
The oil starvation problem was caused by the placement of the oil pump. I know people who raced the 128 would add baffles to the oil pan to cure the problem.

[Ray Bell]

When it comes to rust prevention, there are different requirements around the world. You might think it strange, that rust works the same everywhere, but climatic conditions are the key.
While the tarry stuff works to prevent stones chipping the paint and then salt off de-iced roads getting to the metal, here our problem is the heat and (particularly) humidity.
Atmospheric moisture gets inside the box sections, which abound in a car's bodywork, and then overnight condensation fills the box sections with real water...
And the sprayguns don't work inside the boxes... which is why you need to get something in there somehow. Our cars rust from the inside out, although the buildup of mud in mudguards (fenders) will give the same results everywhere.

[MattFoster]

my 128 only had rust at the bottom corners of the front and rear windscreens

the rest of her was in good condition

Cheers
Matt

[Ray Bell]

You sold it in time, then?

[MattFoster]

I guess so heh.......