214 replies to this topic

[Ruud de la Rosa]

from williams' excellent website:

About Australia

The 5.303km Albert Park track is one of the few street circuits on the calendar and therefore used by everyday road traffic when Formula One isn’t in town. As a result, drivers are faced with minimal grip levels during the race weekend’s opening sessions, combined with the recent ban on traction control, the circuit’s limited run-off areas may claim some unprecedented victims over the weekend before grip levels improve as the cars lay rubber.

On track, Albert Park blends a testing mix of short straights (on which the drivers will reach speeds in excess of 300km/h and spend 70% of the lap at full throttle), interspersed with 16 slow and medium speed corners, which will demand nearly 3,500 gear changes during the race.

Torque to power the cars out of the corners, a balanced set-up, a robust gearbox and stability under braking are therefore all essential components to achieve a successful lap during qualifying and a strong result at the Australian Grand Prix.


Technical Information:
Kilos per lap: 2.36kg/5kg
Time loss per 5km of fuel: 0.07s/lap of fuel
Vmax: 303kph
Average speed: 225kph
Average corner speed: 156kph
Turn angle: 84º
Temperatures: Ambient 24°C / Track 32°C
Greatest power reduction: 1016 mbar pressure
Pitlane loss: 17.9seconds
Pitlane length: 280m
Safety cars: 1.5 average per race

what will the weather be? how will the tyres hold up? what strategy will be best for the front runners? and for those around position 10? Which car will be best suited to the track and the conditions? will the safety car influence possible strategies?

earlier threads:
Race 1: Bahrain

Edited by Buttoneer, 23 March 2010 - 10:05.

[Henrytheeigth]

For Melbourne weather updates http://www.bom.gov.a...melbourne.shtml

[D.M.N.]

Long range: http://www.accuweath...-...NE&metric=1

Edited by D.M.N., 20 March 2010 - 08:49.

[stevvy1986]

The forecast has fluctuated a little bit in recent days, sometimes suggesting some rain over the weekend, other times a dry weekend. In terms of the SC coming out........let's face it, practically every Australian GP at Melbourne has had the SC out at least once, can't be that many years where it hasn't come out at all. If it's going to come out though, it'll probably be on lap 1.

[Lukin83]

from williams' excellent website:

That website is ace indeed. The Track Preview video is better than anything shown by the TV broadcaster in here.

Edited by Lukin83, 19 March 2010 - 23:24.

[pingu666]

any idea what tyres bridgestone are bringing?

lots of nice info on that williams page, awsome

[Mastah]

Soft and hard.

[pingu666]

damn
was it supersoft and medium last year?

[Atreiu]

I expect a very tight fight between the two Ferraris, Hamilton and Vettel, my pre-race favourite. You can't really be sure about Weber and Button, maybe they'll be on fire, maybe not. Together with Montreal, Albert Park is probably the circuit to produce the most unpredictable races.

I wouldn't mind some rain, but I don't count on it.

[V8 Fireworks]

Webber will hopefully win the race in dominant Casey Stoner like style. Unforunately Mark is not quite as good as Casey, but the RBR will presumably be the best car, which is not necessarily the case for the Ducati. :/ Pole and win for Webber is certainly the #1 tip.

[bourbon]

Vettle will win. I love this track, it is in my 7 favorites and I have generally always enjoyed the races. I agree, the wet is always cool. While the drivers didn't have much fun in Malyasia, it was a spinning, hydroplaning highlight wasn't it?

Edited by bourbon, 20 March 2010 - 12:27.

[Alonzo]

I expect RBR to dominate again but in this track with a even bigger margin, then Ferrari closing the podium and Mclaren behind just like last race.

[Enzoluis]

I expect RBR to dominate again but in this track with a even bigger margin, then Ferrari closing the podium and Mclaren behind just like last race.

I wish the exactly same domination by RBR.

[Alonzo]

I wish the exactly same domination by RBR.

Ferrari won due to luck, RBR made the fastest lap of the weekend on Q2, the pole, and was leading confortably. If the car doesn't have any problem this time Reb Bull will win for sure, but that is exactly the problem, RBR not to break.

[MichaelPM]

I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be like 2005/2006. Alonso gets challenged in the first race then blows everyone away for the first half of the season.
Although Ferrari has much better capacity to develop throughout a year than Renault.

[Baddoer]

racing in Albert park usually throws some mad-races, as was in 2008 and 2009
Sooo i expect surprise win from one of mid-teams
maybe Kube or Sutil's

[rhukkas]

Nothing like an early morning race!!!! Shoulda been the 1st GP

[Enzoluis]

and was leading confortably. .

Never could open a gap more than 5" from the second Ferrari. The smallest mistake would put Vettel third. I can´t call that dominance.

[Seanspeed]

Ferrari won due to luck

You really hate Ferrari, dont you?

Having a more reliable car is not 'luck', bud. They got to the checkered flag first fair and square. This isn't purely a driver's competition.

ANYWAYS...........I love the technical data from these previews. Good info to have. Kinda interesting that Albert Park has a tighter average corner angle, slower average corner speed, but higher average overall speed than Bahrain despite not having any long straights.

Edited by Seanspeed, 20 March 2010 - 16:03.

[Alfisti]

On paper the circuit should appeal to McLaren and hurt RBR a little. That brings Ferrari into the picture and particularly Alonso who has fared better than massa here.

Webber has been very quick at Melbourne in the past but appears lost at sea with Vettel as a teammate, he just needs one quick lap and he'd set the cat amongst the pdgeons though.

If I had to put money on it i'd go with .....

Alonso
Hamilton
Vettel

but with no confidence.

[iotar]

I expect RBR to dominate again but in this track with a even bigger margin, then Ferrari closing the podium and Mclaren behind just like last race.

Agreed. Red Bull is one testing session behind, so Bahrain was for them a final test (new chassis for Vettel) and they were already fastest. The track should suit them more. It won't be even close in qualifying.

[Seanspeed]

I disagree that the circuit will hurt Red Bull. Its most definitely a high-downforce 'momentum' track, which should suit the Red Bull's just fine. Especially as there's no long straights where their *assumed' lack of power will hurt them too much. Even if their superior downforce doesn't give them a massive advantage, it will still be a nice one to have at a track like this.

[froggy22]

would be nice to see an outsider team like Renault or FI win the race, after all this is Albert park, one of the most unpredictable races on the calendar

[Seanspeed]

would be nice to see an outsider team like Renault or FI win the race, after all this is Albert park, one of the most unpredictable races on the calendar

Safety cars can seriously mess up the order here with no refuelling, particularly because passing seems so difficult. We could easily see an early safety car mix up the grid permanently with a surprise winner.

Edited by Seanspeed, 20 March 2010 - 16:54.

[Lights]

Just like most people I expect Red Bull to dominate. Their car will suit this track. Last year they were already quite quick here but kinda invisible because of Brawn.

[kismet]

Expecting a Ferrari 1-2 but hoping for a Force India win. Safety car to the rescue!

[Alonzo]

You really hate Ferrari, dont you?

Having a more reliable car is not 'luck', bud. They got to the checkered flag first fair and square. This isn't purely a driver's competition.

ANYWAYS...........I love the technical data from these previews. Good info to have. Kinda interesting that Albert Park has a tighter average corner angle, slower average corner speed, but higher average overall speed than Bahrain despite not having any long straights.

I don't hate Ferrari, I just don't like the hyping towards Mclaren and Ferrari. I didn't say Ferrari win was unfair, it was lucky because they didn't have speed to win and just did as consequence of RBR's poor reliability. I don't know if I properly understood what you said afterwards, but Melbourne doesn't have tighter average corner angle than Bahrain(it's 84degrees on average against 124 of Bahrain), neither slower average corner speed(are you insane on this?). Williams site doesn't have Bahrain average corner speed but surely it's way less than Melbourne's 156km/h, probably less than 100km/h as most of it's corners are taken at 80-90km/h.

Edited by Alonzo, 20 March 2010 - 19:40.

[Seanspeed]

I don't hate Ferrari, I just don't like the hyping towards Mclaren and Ferrari. I didn't say Ferrari win was unfair, it was lucky because they didn't have speed to win and just did as consequence of RBR's poor reliability. I don't know if I properly understood what you said afterwards, but Melbourne doesn't have tighter average corner angle than Bahrain(it's 84degrees on average against 124 of Bahrain), neither slower average corner speed(are you insane on this?). Williams site doesn't have Bahrain average corner speed but surely it's way less than Melbourne's 156km/h, probably less than 100km/h as most of it's corners are taken at 80-90km/h.

Unless reliability problems are completely random, then I really dont understand how it has anything to do with 'luck'.

Anyways, an average corner angle of 84 degrees *is* tighter than 124. I know you're a smart guy and are probably just getting mixed up on that. You're right about the corner speed, though. Bahrain doesn't have any info on this here. I wasn't looking right.

Edited by Seanspeed, 20 March 2010 - 20:20.

[chuffbiscuits]

I think Hamilton might be a good bet for the win in Melbourne, so long as his car is closer to the front in qually. He got a podium here in his debut race, won the first race without TC in 2008 (when only 7 cars finished), and dragged the slowest car in the field from 17th on the grid to 6th before the safety car last year, albeit with the help of KERS. If the McLaren is off the pace again, then I'd go for Alonso followed by Vettel (or it could easily be the reverse ).

The main thing is to have a more exciting race than Bahrain, and Melbourne should provide that at least. If a safety car comes out, the pit melee will be amazing as everyone dives in for hards to last to the end of the race. Let's pray that they can follow more closely on this track and give us some wheel-to-wheel stuff.

[sealthedeal]

from williams' excellent website:



what will the weather be? how will the tyres hold up? what strategy will be best for the front runners? and for those around position 10? Which car will be best suited to the track and the conditions? will the safety car influence possible strategies?

earlier treads:
Race 1: Bahrain

Weather conditions in Melbourne are so rapidly changeable. It can be bright and sunny, then sudden;y the clouds will gather and there will be rain. It would be great if Mother Nature could spice things up a bit mid-race.

[schuey100]

Unless reliability problems are completely random, then I really dont understand how it has anything to do with 'luck'.

I won't comment on the last race because I don't know exactly what happened to the RBR but I don't think there's a problem saying that a win was lucky because another car 'broke'. There's always the chance that pure luck is involved. Let's say a pidgeon dropped out of the sky and went through the air intake and killed the Ferrari and the RBR won, would they have won because they were lucky or 'the more reliable car'? A bit extreme but I guess you get the point. There's always an element of luck somewhere in a race and there's no reason this can't relate to reliability.

[Alonzo]

Unless reliability problems are completely random, then I really dont understand how it has anything to do with 'luck'.

Anyways, an average corner angle of 84 degrees *is* tighter than 124. I know you're a smart guy and are probably just getting mixed up on that. You're right about the corner speed, though. Bahrain doesn't have any info on this here. I wasn't looking right.

Well, maybe you're right about the lucky issue.

But about the tighter average corner angle, I'm right because 84 degrees on average means less than an orthogonal change on average, while 124 means that on average the cars changes direction orthogonally plus 34 degrees. I think you didn't understood what Williams meant by this because the word "tight" is not even appropriate to it because it's not said if a corner is tight or more open, it just says the average change of direction through corners. For example Parabolica in Monza is done quite fast but it changes 180 degrees in the car's initial direction, the same happens with the first hairpin in Magny-Cours although this corner is much more tight.

Sumarizing, the Williams website displays the average change of direction through the circuit's corners not how tight they are.

Edited by Alonzo, 20 March 2010 - 22:36.

[Seanspeed]

I won't comment on the last race because I don't know exactly what happened to the RBR but I don't think there's a problem saying that a win was lucky because another car 'broke'. There's always the chance that pure luck is involved. Let's say a pidgeon dropped out of the sky and went through the air intake and killed the Ferrari and the RBR won, would they have won because they were lucky or 'the more reliable car'? A bit extreme but I guess you get the point. There's always an element of luck somewhere in a race and there's no reason this can't relate to reliability.

Well yea, I'm not saying there's no such thing as 'luck'. I certainly dont subscribe to the idea that 'people make their own luck'. Luck is something thats out of your control. But building a more reliable car than somebody else is not out of your control at all. In fact, thats quite a large and important part of motorsports in general.

If a pidgeon caused a car problem, then yes, thats bad luck. But thats not what happened at all. From what we know, Red Bull just didn't put together a package that could last the whole race at speed.

[ashnathan]

If we don't have a safety car in the first lap or 2, then I don't think the safety car will interviene as much as the past few years. I really love this track. And just for the record, I think Webber will get pole only to botch his start and desperately try and keep the lead and him and Alonso will collide with eachother in the first corner, Weber will be out of the race and Alonso will keep going only to retire with suspension issues later on. My personal view, and Webber is mega around this track, that coupled with this car and home ground advantage (I believe in this) I think the pole is Webber's to lose, unfortuneately for a mclaren fan

[Seanspeed]

Well, maybe you're right about the lucky issue.

But about the tighter average corner angle, I'm right because 84 degrees on average means less than an orthogonal change on average, while 124 means that on average the cars changes direction orthogonally plus 34 degrees. I think you didn't understood what Williams meant by this because the word "tight" is not even appropriate to it because it's not said if a corner is tight or more open, it just says the average change of direction through corners. For example Parabolica in Monza is done quite fast but it changes 180 degrees in the car's initial direction, the same happens with the first hairpin in Magny-Cours although this corner is much more tight.

Sumarizing, the Williams website displays the average change of direction through the circuit's corners not how tight they are.

Doesn't that make it really tricky in terms of how you define what the beginning and end of each turn is? It would also make the statistic a little bit useless, as it doesn't really say anything about the track at all.

You could be 100% right, dont get me wrong, but it seems to me that 'average angle' would mean what angle the car is turning on average through the corners, which would not be reliant on how long the corner is(like in the case of the Parabolica). You see what I'm saying?

A tricky one, I think.

[schuey100]

Well yea, I'm not saying there's no such thing as 'luck'. I certainly dont subscribe to the idea that 'people make their own luck'. Luck is something thats out of your control. But building a more reliable car than somebody else is not out of your control at all. In fact, thats quite a large and important part of motorsports in general.

If a pidgeon caused a car problem, then yes, thats bad luck. But thats not what happened at all. From what we know, Red Bull just didn't put together a package that could last the whole race at speed.

Except a 'more reliable car' is sometimes only a more reliable car because another car suffered an unlucky fault.

[Seanspeed]

Except a 'more reliable car' is sometimes only a more reliable car because another car suffered an unlucky fault.

I still dont understand how thats luck. One team put together(design, manufacture and build) a better package than somebody else.

Was it just bad luck that both HRT cars retired? Or was it result of them not putting together a good enough package?

Edited by Seanspeed, 20 March 2010 - 23:19.

[Alonzo]

Doesn't that make it really tricky in terms of how you define what the beginning and end of each turn is? It would also make the statistic a little bit useless, as it doesn't really say anything about the track at all.

You could be 100% right, dont get me wrong, but it seems to me that 'average angle' would mean what angle the car is turning on average through the corners, which would not be reliant on how long the corner is(like in the case of the Parabolica). You see what I'm saying?

A tricky one, I think.

@About the bolded part, agree with you. It is kind of "tricky"(imprecise to me) to define where a corner starts and where it ends because in some parts of some corners it's like a straight from a driving point of view, although the layout suggests it's still a corner. The statistics indeed is kind of useless, it just shows that Melbourne doesn't have many of those cornes which change a lot of the direction of the car, unlike many Tilke track with it's tight 180º corners.

About the other part, you would like to know how tight, on average, the corners are, right? But that is not expressed with angles because you can have a 180º mid speed more opened corner like Parabolica and a 180º low speed more tight corner like Magny-Cours chincane.
;)

Edited by Alonzo, 20 March 2010 - 23:25.

[Seanspeed]

About the other part, you would like to know how tight, on average, the corners are, right? But that is not expressed with angles because you can have a 180º mid speed more opened corner like Parabolica and a 180º low speed more tight corner like Magny-Cours chincane.
;)

But there's a measurable difference between those two corners. In the Parabolica, the car isn't 'turning' nearly as much as they do in a quick chicane, even if the end result is the same direction change. Its definitely measurable in angles. Purely out of my butt, the Parabolica turn could be 45 degrees on average, while the Magny Cours chicane could be 120 degrees. Think about how much a driver turns their steering wheel through a turn to see what I'm saying.

[seltaeb]

I love the race at Albert Park. I think that next weekend will have much more of a season opener feeling than Bahrain did.

It'd be great to see Williams and McLaren perform better in Australia.

[gerry nassar]

I'll head over today and take some photos and post them here. I wont feel the real start of season till them. Still not as excited for the race as usual (thanks to the new regs) but we can only hope.

BTW - we've been in a drought for a number of years now but since September we've experienced a fair bit of rain. In fact two weeks ago (on Saturday) we had major storms, hail and flash floods. However since then it has been consistent sunny and warm 30 degree weather. So unfortunately i doubt it will rain next weekend.

Early forecasts have next Friday/Saturday as warm and sunny. No word on Sunday yet. But this is Melbourne so still too early to tell.

[aditya-now]

According to book form we can expect another Vettel-Alonso shoot-out, it would surprise me if either Webber or Massa can get into the mix.
McLaren and Mercedes, like Renault and Force India have to change their diffuser lay out and their starter engine unit, so it would surprise me if they will be a factor until the fourth race.

But it´s all to play for, as usual. One Lewis Hamilton can never be discounted...

[CSquared]

But there's a measurable difference between those two corners. In the Parabolica, the car isn't 'turning' nearly as much as they do in a quick chicane, even if the end result is the same direction change. Its definitely measurable in angles. Purely out of my butt, the Parabolica turn could be 45 degrees on average, while the Magny Cours chicane could be 120 degrees. Think about how much a driver turns their steering wheel through a turn to see what I'm saying.

This is what the site says :

Turn angle: Average turn angle indicates the average angle of a circuit's corners expressed in degrees. The higher the average turn angle, the more acute the corners in the circuit's configuration and the greater propensity for understeer to compromise lap time.

[stevvy1986]

I'll head over today and take some photos and post them here. I wont feel the real start of season till them. Still not as excited for the race as usual (thanks to the new regs) but we can only hope.

BTW - we've been in a drought for a number of years now but since September we've experienced a fair bit of rain. In fact two weeks ago (on Saturday) we had major storms, hail and flash floods. However since then it has been consistent sunny and warm 30 degree weather. So unfortunately i doubt it will rain next weekend.

Early forecasts have next Friday/Saturday as warm and sunny. No word on Sunday yet. But this is Melbourne so still too early to tell.

The forecasts at the moment do seem to suggest it'll be a dry weekend (quite common for this race to be fair though). Must admit I read a couple of reports on that major storm that hit Melbourne, talking about flooding, hailstones the size of lemons 1 report said, etc.

[cheapracer]

Ferrari won due to luck, RBR made the fastest lap of the weekend on Q2, the pole, and was leading comfortably.

It's called Motor Racing and theres no such thing as "if" - check the record books for conformation of that.

[cheapracer]

The forecasts at the moment do seem to suggest it'll be a dry weekend (quite common for this race to be fair though). Must admit I read a couple of reports on that major storm that hit Melbourne, talking about flooding, hailstones the size of lemons 1 report said, etc.

I grew up in Melbourne (Mornington to be precise) and you simply can't predict the weather there - it's famously known as "the City of 4 seasons in one day".

[Atreiu]

It's strange to notice Schumacher so off the radar. He has 4 wins at Melbourne. Nobody else on the grid has more than 1.
Suddenly he can snatch a spot on qualifying lap and all our predictions will be blown away. Can you imagine something like Imola 2006 again?

[korzeniow]

I grew up in Melbourne (Mornington to be precise) and you simply can't predict the weather there - it's famously known as "the City of 4 seasons in one day".

I got your point.

But it's hard to imagine for me "4 seasons in one day". Leafs falling from trees, then snow and then blooming flowers

[Michael]

For what it's worth at this stage, straight from the Bureau of Meteorology website (www.bom.gov.au):

Forecast for Friday
Mainly sunny morning. Partly cloudy afternoon. Winds northwest averaging up to
25 km/h shifting southwesterly by midday then tending south to southeasterly
during the evening.
City Partly cloudy. Min 16 Max 29

Forecast for Saturday
Cloudy. Isolated showers during the morning. Winds south to southeasterly
averaging up to 20 km/h tending east to northeasterly during the evening.
City Local morning shower. Min 17 Max 26

Forecast for Sunday
Cloudy. The chance of showers later in the day. Winds northerly averaging 15 to
20 km/h increasing to 20 to 30 km/h then tending southwesterly up to 30 km/h
during the afternoon.
City Possible late shower. Min 18 Max 30


"City" is only a couple of kms from Albert Park. As already mentioned however, this means nothing at this stage. The weather in Melbourne is notorious for changing very quickly ... .

Looking forward to Sunday.

Seeya,
Michael

[GAZF1nut]

What time is qualy and the race on UK time?