Michael Schumacher (merged)
#19501
Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:47
1991-2006 will define MS; 91 wins, 68 poles, 154 podiums and destroying the field.
Time to hang them up, you tried but you tried too hard and it didnt work out. Thanks for the memories Michael.
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#19502
Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:49
...sooo he moved back in front of Michael in the braking zone? Odd strategy.
Michaels obvisouly very flustered, he seems to think Senna is driving a Caterham!
#19503
Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:49
Cool it, there is still 15 races left. He won't catch up with Rosberg in terms of points but his performances, when not impeded by the retardedness of other beings, have been good and on par.
Edited by DutchCruijff, 13 May 2012 - 12:51.
#19504
Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:49
#19505
Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:51
2010-2012 wont define MS.
1991-2006 will define MS; 91 wins, 68 poles, 154 podiums and destroying the field.
Agreed. He could DNF every other race this season and he'll still be the greatest racing driver (if not sportsman) I've ever seen.
#19506
Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:51
MSC could have avoided this with a bit of patience. Such a good race up to that point, a shame.
This is just it, he doesn't have patience. We have seen it before with the other ex GP2 drivers.
#19507
Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:52
I think that can be said for most of the accidents he has been involved in 2011 and 2012 and that disappoints me a bit. But ofc he is the racer and i am the spectator so i don't know how it is in there.MSC could have avoided this with a bit of patience. Such a good race up to that point, a shame.
#19508
Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:52
And to be honest i thought that mercedes' strength was gonna be their pace on hards.
Edit: about the crash i don't understand who is to blame it was plain fail.
Exactly. All weekend, the free practices and the long runs Schumacher was easily half a second faster than Rosberg on the hard tyres. He was almost 6 tenth up on him in Q1 as well when they used the hard tyre.
I am sure that they had some valid reason for choosing this strategy with all the data that they have, but it still puzzles me. I don't know but in most cases I get the feeling that they run the same strategy for both drivers irrespective of their positions.
#19509
Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:54
Interesting that he was so pissed though, he has taken misfortune well until now.
Edited by Disgrace, 13 May 2012 - 12:55.
#19510
Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:54
#19511
Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:55
That was Michael's fault though as Koba didn't go for a split second change of line under braking.Michael did the same to Kobayashi at Silverstone last year, just totally misjudged the speed differential when DRS/old tyres are at play.
#19512
Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:56
#19513
Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:56
The back luck run will end, and there are plenty more chances to put in some good drives in 2012. Hopefully the tyres will also settle down as the season goes on as well.
#19514
Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:56
I did find it weird how he was coming into the corner but at the same time, Shumi should have known after being behind him for a while and who it was that he was gonna break early.
Problem is, Michael had a brain fade and approach the corner with absolutely no clue where he was gonna put his car to get through the corner. It's almost as if he closed his eyes and hoped for the best.. what the hell..
#19515
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:00
From MSC's interview it seemed that he was a bit less convinced after seeing the images on TV, as it didn't appear as aggressive as he felt it was, but he stuck with his point of view. I just hope for no race compromising penalty in Monaco.
#19516
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:02
Brain fade? Approaching the corner it's quite clear that Senna is leaning towards the inside line, naturally Schumacher is going to take the left, but for some reason Senna halfheartedly jinks to the left.
#19517
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:02
I agree with that after all i was really like "come on Michael you need to pass him asap" but on the other hand i was worried that the outcome won't be bad. As i said i don't who is more at fault but imo Schumi didn't play his cards very well there. Funnily enough in Singapore too he had a car with shredded tires in front of him. But well.. that's how it is.. : /Exactly.
Edit: thnx for the replay DutchCruijff hadn't seen that angle. That was gay from Senna.
Edited by Lelouch, 13 May 2012 - 13:05.
#19518
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:03
That was Michael's fault though as Koba didn't go for a split second change of line under braking.
He also did this to Perez in Singapore last year. Personally, I've always thought Schumacher's racing craft was suspect even in his first career so I'm not surprised by these antics although the view is probably a minority one at least in this thread.
Edited by Disgrace, 13 May 2012 - 13:04.
#19519
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:06
Ok but i hope you can see the problem with Senna's move.He also did this to Perez in Singapore last year. Personally, I've always thought Schumacher's racing craft was suspect even in his first career so I'm not surprised by these antics although the view is probably a minority one at least in this thread.
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#19520
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:09
Brain fade? Approaching the corner it's quite clear that Senna is leaning towards the inside line, naturally Schumacher is going to take the left, but for some reason Senna halfheartedly jinks to the left.
Now I've got it. Senna moved to the outside, expecting Schumacher to go up the inside like Grosjean did the previous lap as he explained. However, Schumacher had actually just committed to the outside but was spooked by Senna's supposedly evasive move, and went to the inside expecting Senna to return to the racing line which he ultimately had no intention to do.
It's a racing incident but Schumacher probably should not have committed to the outside, in Bruno's blind spot.
#19521
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:10
Spend some more time following F1, as you clearly don't understand racing. Driver with 15+ full seasons behind him is "approaching corner without having a clue where he was going to put his car"... Case closed for you.
15+ full season means nothing if you're gonna come in that hot to slow corner behind a guy on old tires who's been struggling at every braking zone. Shumi has shown more bad judement in trying to get around slower cars in front then any other driver on the grid! Experience only counts if you gonna use your combined experience and sorry .. he hasn't been doing that the past 3 seasons.
Id like to see Schumi doing well but frankly... imagine the **** storm that would erupted if MS had been taken out like that from Senna....
#19522
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:14
Now I've got it. Senna moved to the outside, expecting Schumacher to go up the inside like Grosjean did the previous lap as he explained. However, Schumacher had actually just committed to the outside but was spooked by Senna's supposedly evasive move, and went to the inside expecting Senna to return to the racing line which he ultimately had no intention to do.
It's a racing incident but Schumacher probably should not have committed to the outside, in Bruno's blind spot.
Exactly.
#19523
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:15
Spend some more time following F1, as you clearly don't understand racing. Driver with 15+ full seasons behind him is "approaching corner without having a clue where he was going to put his car"... Case closed for you.
And what.. you've only been watching F1 for a couple of years Cased closed eh, good thing you're not a steward for the race today if you think MS used good judgement in that move and RUINED Senna's race because he came in hot without an effective strategy on how to get through the corner without destroying a competitor that was clearly infront and DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG!
Even Schumi in his interview pretty much acknowledged that without fully admitting blame as to attempt and avoid a penalty at the next race that messed up the approach and corner.. which is pretty much a lock that he'll get a penality.
Racing incident YES.
Avoidable contact ABSOLUTELY.
Penalty YUP.
Edited by Paco, 13 May 2012 - 13:18.
#19524
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:15
Ok but i hope you can see the problem with Senna's move.
He spooked himself from taking the inside line, and had effectually conceded it to Schumacher who had actually committed to the outside which inadvertently caused the crash. The problem with his move was it's weak nature which caught Schumacher off guard who didn't leave margin for error. Hopefully we won't get any penalties.
Edited by Disgrace, 13 May 2012 - 13:16.
#19525
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:19
he was at the center and he moved slightly to the right which provoked MSC's move to the left, then Senna went back to left and yes i would classify it as racing incident too. The problem is 5 ruined weekend for Schumi and his fans for whatever reason. : /He spooked himself from taking the inside line, and had effectually conceded it to Schumacher who had actually committed to the outside which inadvertently caused the crash. The problem with his move was it's weak nature which caught Schumacher off guard who didn't leave margin for error. Hopefully we won't get any penalties.
#19526
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:19
He also did this to Perez in Singapore last year. Personally, I've always thought Schumacher's racing craft was suspect even in his first career so I'm not surprised by these antics although the view is probably a minority one at least in this thread.
I agree with you that Michaels certainly had more than his fair sure of suspect racing incidents in both of his careers. Some have been his fault, some have been probably the other drivers fault but resultant from Schumi being a very aggresive driver who wants to race and get by slower cars as soon as possible. Sometimes it works out for him and he looks like a great racer, sometimes not.
I agree with your above analysis, it was a misunderstanding between the drivers. Michael wanted Senna out of his way and was going to out race him around the outside. He wasnt expecting Senna to move around to 'make space' in the braking zone.
Michael could have been more cautious, but then he wouldn't be Michael!! As frustrating as it can be, I'm glad he's never changed that part of him
Edited by spacekid, 13 May 2012 - 13:20.
#19527
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:20
Brain fade? Approaching the corner it's quite clear that Senna is leaning towards the inside line, naturally Schumacher is going to take the left, but for some reason Senna halfheartedly jinks to the left.
Honestly did anyone think given how little overtaking was occuring at Spain, when Bruno was ahead of MS, did anyone think something was going to likely happen, I think Bruno Senna has been under pressure all weekend, his teamate is contending for the win, he's had a past encounter with MS at Briazil which was his fault, Senna Bruno is not his uncle and doesn't look like havnig the mentality for f1 main contentions. I wouldn't wanna be racing him and I think he's wasting that Williams seat.
Edited by SeanValen, 13 May 2012 - 13:20.
#19528
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:22
Brain fade? Approaching the corner it's quite clear that Senna is leaning towards the inside line, naturally Schumacher is going to take the left, but for some reason Senna halfheartedly jinks to the left.
All I see Senna giving him some room, Michael not committed and far back and Senna goes back to the racing line and takes the corner since Michael was so far back .. in the middle of the link not even on the brakes.
There was absolutely no way Michael was ever going to make the corner.
#19529
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:23
What do you mean by "too late"?You still don't get the point, which is that Senna suddenly changed the line way too late.
But it doesn't matter anyway.
He can change it back to racing line whenever he wants as long as he leaves space for the attacking car. There was more than a car width on the outside.
#19530
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:24
Honestly did anyone think given how little overtaking was occuring at Spain, when Bruno was ahead of MS, did anyone think something was going to likely happen, I think Bruno Senna has been under pressure all weekend, his teamate is contending for the win, he's had a past encounter with MS at Briazil which was his fault, Senna Bruno is not his uncle and doesn't look like havnig the mentality for f1 main contentions. I wouldn't wanna be racing him and I think he's wasting that Williams seat.
Whatever the case is for Williams giving up the seat to him doesn't change the fact that when you're out there racing your fellow competitors, you know their tendancies, strengths, weaknesses and Michael used bad judgement .. period in this incident knowing full well who (team, driver, length of stint etc) was ahead and situation at hand.
#19531
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:25
Brain fade? Approaching the corner it's quite clear that Senna is leaning towards the inside line, naturally Schumacher is going to take the left, but for some reason Senna halfheartedly jinks to the left.
Hmm. After this video I say 100% Senna'a fault...
#19532
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:26
He can change it back to racing line whenever he wants as long as he leaves space for the attacking car. There was more than a car width on the outside.
Go ask them if changing line under braking, especially under heavy braking like this is acceptable.
#19533
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:28
Whatever the case is for Williams giving up the seat to him doesn't change the fact that when you're out there racing your fellow competitors, you know their tendancies, strengths, weaknesses and Michael used bad judgement .. period in this incident knowing full well who (team, driver, length of stint etc) was ahead and situation at hand.
A driver under perssure is not too predictable. Bruno was hanging about as Martin Brundle menstioned Bruno's awareness of what lines he takes is important, I didn't see a driver racing, but somone who is half racing/half pretending to look like defensive racing.
#19534
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:28
at the moment he started to move (yes, so late) michael had to react as he had no clue where bruno would stopWhat do you mean by "too late"?
He can change it back to racing line whenever he wants as long as he leaves space for the attacking car. There was more than a car width on the outside.
that was the braking area, way too late to change your plans
did you actually drive at least..go karts?
#19535
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:32
Edited by Sakae, 13 May 2012 - 13:33.
#19536
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:38
If you don't post here regularly, and suddenly appear with just negative statements, you are trolling. Please do not do that.
Please talk about today, not about 1994, 1998, etc etc.
#19537
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:39
#19538
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:41
Heh, Schumacher gets some of his own medicine. Senna changed his line once and then returned to racing line. 100% legal.
Senna changed his line too late, under braking and caused an incident. Penalty for Senna.
#19539
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:42
Heh, Schumacher gets some of his own medicine. Senna changed his line once and then returned to racing line. 100% legal.
100 % Agree. saw it the first time, came here to read discussion, watched it again and again on youtube. No doubt in my mind this was an avoidable incident from the driver behind. Which will be the key to any investigation.
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#19540
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:44
Senna changed his line too late, under braking and caused an incident. Penalty for Senna.
Senna made one clear move to the left, schumacher wasn't alongside. Unless they make up new rules, schumacher could have avoided this.
#19541
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:48
it's about moving BACK in front of a car under braking, not about being alongsideSenna made one clear move to the left, schumacher wasn't alongside. Unless they make up new rules, schumacher could have avoided this.
#19542
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:48
#19543
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:51
Unfortunately, I agree. This time it was Schumi's mistake Awfull season so far for him.schumacher could have avoided this.
#19544
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:51
it's about moving BACK in front of a car under braking, not about being alongside
Schumacher in the quicker car into the corner had the whole inside line to go for once senna moved left, instead he ran straight into the back. Totally avoidable with the race craft he learnt in karting.
#19545
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:52
fault, non-fault. This is the worst season ever for him, don't know how this will end
It's hard to believe that after five races with decent race pace and at least decent performances, all Michael has to show for it is two points.
#19546
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:52
Michael did the same to Kobayashi at Silverstone last year, just totally misjudged the speed differential when DRS/old tyres are at play. Senna did seem to move under braking but it was so minute that had Michael been clean up the inside, it would have seemed normal and nothing would have happened.
Interesting that he was so pissed though, he has taken misfortune well until now.
That is the way I see it too. Bruno did move twice but his second movement was so slight that it did not make that big a difference. MS would have hit Senna no matter what - a poor(ish) judgment IMHO.
#19547
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:53
fault, non-fault. This is the worst season ever for him, don't know how this will end
Sadly I think with him retiring. Unfortunately, he's cost the team a lot of points and finishes last season and is well on his way of doing the same again this season. I hoped and really thought he would have got it together this year. I don't understand why he mentally isn't in it .. If there was one guy who I thought could even though he has nothing left to prove.. it was him but it definitely seems he's on his back foot now.
It's painful to watch the self destruction of him.. for every good result there is like 5 bad ones and attempts to justify all this bad on track judgements.
Edited by Paco, 13 May 2012 - 13:55.
#19548
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:58
About the incident : the biggest factor was the difference in speed. Looks like a racing incident, but Senna did move twice under braking.
Edited by Diablobb81, 13 May 2012 - 14:01.
#19549
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:59
Racing incident, but Michael must keep more cool.
#19550
Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:59
Schumi should have learnt from previous meeting with Bruno.