14491 replies to this topic

[cardin]

To me it's one of those things where you'd like to think you wouldn't do the same if placed in that situation but you can understand why it happened. So I wouldn't say it was acceptable but then I wouldn't say it was unnacceptable either, if that makes sense? It's not the greatest thing in the world to have said, it's also not the worst.

I understand and maybe I exagerated a little bit. I didn't stop supporting him right there but it raised an eyebrow. 2007 was the deal breaker. Still think he's a great driver and pretty fair and clean on race day.

Edited by cardin, 28 April 2011 - 15:25.

[Anomnader]

Alonso's a great drive, he's just got a slight bit of paranoia and a personal desire to be a champion above anything else

[Watkins74]

I wouldn't say it's very, very different but it's different. What I'm not sure, by reading your post, is if what he said is acceptable. For me, when he said that, was when he lost my support. It was when he start to show his colors. 2007 not only confirmed but expanded the notion that he's an extremely flawed human being.

That's interesting. I think after Qualifying Hungary 2007 is when I started to think less of Hamilton as a person.

[Anomnader]

That's interesting. I think after Qualifying Hungary 2007 is when I started to think less of Hamilton as a person.

I can't see either off them coming out clean in that incident. Pity 2007 could have being the greatest season ever, but maybe to make it work it had Alonso and Another or Lewis and Another.

[Watkins74]

I can't see either off them coming out clean in that incident. Pity 2007 could have being the greatest season ever, but maybe to make it work it had Alonso and Another or Lewis and Another.

True.

I just find it interesting how people look at things so differently. I don't think my opinion is anymore valid then Cardins.

Edited by Watkins74, 28 April 2011 - 16:34.

[puxanando]

A fair driver wheel to wheel but a person with attitude problems... It sounds contradictory to me!

IMO, his image as a "bad guy" is overblown by the media, specially by the British Press. Nobody is saying he is completely innocent, of course, but he's not the pantomime villain some are trying to paint him out to be... There are F1 Fans that tend to admit how wrong they were in their judgment of him when they know him...can you just guess why?

+1

funny

[Kohque]

Alonso is a flawed human being... wow . Well, raise your hand the lot of you who believe to be flawless. I heard Thor is on theaters soon. You'll fall in love with him

What most of you hate is what I find it great. I really like to see Alonso's gestures, comments and openness, even being a royal butt from time to time. I find him almost as refreshing as Montoya, not to mention Senna. And Raikkonen was just as cool, if not the coolest. He did not give a fig about us, the media or the show. And just like Montoya before him, he waived his finger to Ecclestone's F1 and is being happy ever after. If that is being flawed, I certainly fall in that category.

When people like Montoya or Raikkonen choose not to participate in this freak-show, it should be reason enough for us to worry about its future. We need more Alonsos and less fashion shows.

[F1EC]

Alonso is a flawed human being... wow . Well, raise your hand the lot of you who believe to be flawless. I heard Thor is on theaters soon. You'll fall in love with him

What most of you hate is what I find it great. I really like to see Alonso's gestures, comments and openness, even being a royal butt from time to time. I find him almost as refreshing as Montoya, not to mention Senna. And Raikkonen was just as cool, if not the coolest. He did not give a fig about us, the media or the show. And just like Montoya before him, he waived his finger to Ecclestone's F1 and is being happy ever after. If that is being flawed, I certainly fall in that category.

When people like Montoya or Raikkonen choose not to participate in this freak-show, it should be reason enough for us to worry about its future. We need more Alonsos and less fashion shows.

I think you're mistaking rudeness and petulance for being cool and reserved.

I wouldn't mind seeing more Raikkonens. But while you're entitled to your opinion, I personally would rather see fewer Alonsos. The tantrums might be cringe-makingly entertaining, and good for a laugh when talking about the race with friends, but do we really need uber-villains in F1? I'd rather focus on the skills of the drivers than their behaviour. Alonso can be a good driver when he's not blinded by his personal vendettas and obsessions. But his constant need to do others down has turned him into an object of ridicule.

[puxanando]

I think you're mistaking rudeness and petulance for being cool and reserved.

I wouldn't mind seeing more Raikkonens. But while you're entitled to your opinion, I personally would rather see fewer Alonsos. The tantrums might be cringe-makingly entertaining, and good for a laugh when talking about the race with friends, but do we really need uber-villains in F1? I'd rather focus on the skills of the drivers than their behaviour. Alonso can be a good driver when he's not blinded by his personal vendettas and obsessions. But his constant need to do others down has turned him into an object of ridicule.

Nothing else than your personal sight.

When anything is ridicule then comments like yours, who is speaking bad of a person which he doesnt know at all.
Can you name one driver or one team boss who is speaking bad of the spaniard?? Don't think so.
You dont't must love him, but a little bit of respect and objectivily weren't bad......

[as65p]

I think you're mistaking rudeness and petulance for being cool and reserved.

I wouldn't mind seeing more Raikkonens. But while you're entitled to your opinion, I personally would rather see fewer Alonsos. The tantrums might be cringe-makingly entertaining, and good for a laugh when talking about the race with friends, but do we really need uber-villains in F1? I'd rather focus on the skills of the drivers than their behaviour. Alonso can be a good driver when he's not blinded by his personal vendettas and obsessions. But his constant need to do others down has turned him into an object of ridicule.

Ah yes. One short sentence declaring your intention, then the rest of the post doing the opposite. Makes sense...

[P123]

I disagree. The Spanish media was very hard with Lewis in 2007-2008, but since 2009 Lewis is more respected by the Spanish media in general. I can't say the same about certain British media with Alonso... they haven't got over what happened in 2007.

Who in the British press ever talks about Alonso? There must be some clear examples that keep this little theory alive. He's anonymous in comparison to the bile that was thrown in the direction of Senna and Schumacher.

On the otherhand, the example of the pre-season Spanish TV show featuring Alonso where the audience jeered any mention of Hamilton or the Spanish TV show that went to the effort of making a nice little video about how dastardly Hamilton is.

[as65p]

*comes in, sees some people fantasizing about Hamilton in an Alonso thread. Walks out*

Fascinating contribution. Any other threads you walked in and out today? I think we ought to be told...

[cardin]

Alonso is a flawed human being... wow . Well, raise your hand the lot of you who believe to be flawless. I heard Thor is on theaters soon. You'll fall in love with him

What most of you hate is what I find it great. I really like to see Alonso's gestures, comments and openness, even being a royal butt from time to time. I find him almost as refreshing as Montoya, not to mention Senna. And Raikkonen was just as cool, if not the coolest. He did not give a fig about us, the media or the show. And just like Montoya before him, he waived his finger to Ecclestone's F1 and is being happy ever after. If that is being flawed, I certainly fall in that category.

When people like Montoya or Raikkonen choose not to participate in this freak-show, it should be reason enough for us to worry about its future. We need more Alonsos and less fashion shows.

It's telling that you left out the worse. I'm going to refresh your memory, in case you forgot.
In 2007 he was, knowingly, using stolen data from Ferrari(that is documented) After being denied number one status he blackmailed Ron with this fact. Although there's no proof of that I tend, given both track records, to believe Ron's account. If for nothing else he risked beeing sued by comming out with that. That's not all; After being given inmunity, and that's the only reason he was not punished, he testified against McLaren. His testimony was pivotal in McLaren's disqulification and fine. To top it all he gave an interview, published in this very site, congratulating himself on his whole colaboration with the FIA in the spygate afair. If you think this is great and cool, well... what can I say ? But I somehow can't imagine Raikkonen doing stuff like that.

[Birelman]

I think you're mistaking rudeness and petulance for being cool and reserved.

I wouldn't mind seeing more Raikkonens. But while you're entitled to your opinion, I personally would rather see fewer Alonsos. The tantrums might be cringe-makingly entertaining, and good for a laugh when talking about the race with friends, but do we really need uber-villains in F1? I'd rather focus on the skills of the drivers than their behaviour. Alonso can be a good driver when he's not blinded by his personal vendettas and obsessions. But his constant need to do others down has turned him into an object of ridicule.

Not that I applaud Alonso's tantrums and such, but, I kinda welcome all these personalities into Formula 1. The cold Raikkonens, Hamiltons, the Vettels (Finger), even the perfect corporate drivers like Nico. Like you, I think Alonso's tantrums are good for a laugh, but I also think it's a good thing for Formula 1, I really got fed up with the perfectly political era where Mika Hakkinen, Michael Schumacher, and such were all just perfect corporate weapons and Formula was sort of stale and cold. I rather welcome what we have now. Sure, it's childish, and sometimes unprofessional, but I like my laughs when I watch my sports too

[cardin]

That's interesting. I think after Qualifying Hungary 2007 is when I started to think less of Hamilton as a person.

What's really interesting is that you don't think less of him(or at least you haven't mentioned it) after his participation in the spygate crap.

[as65p]

Whatever dude. The guy acts like a complete tool from time to time. If you fail to see that then godspeed to ya. Plenty of other people do. Why dont you take a look at the Abu Dhabi race for instance and listen to what Brundle had to say about his pathetic arm waving at Petrov after the race. That is grade A asshole behavior. End of. Just one example. I think we are done here anyway.

Edit: But let me add to this, that even though he behaved very unsportsmanlike after the race, he didnt try some crazy kamikaze move on Petrov during the race. And that is admirable.

Another mountain made of a molehill, that Petrov thing. Alonso expresses his frustration more visibly than most others, but that's the only difference - they all feel very similar in such situations. Anger, frustration, it's all part of it everytime they compete (and everyone who competed in one form or another at least once in his life will know that).

The only thing thta matters is not letting the frustration affect the driving and as you seem to recognize, Alonso does that to a lesser extent than most others, if at all.

What did you think of Vettels gesturing after the Turkey incident with Webber, BTW?

[Anomnader]

What did you think of Vettels gesturing after the Turkey incident with Webber, BTW?

For me, worse.

Alonso, fustration, 12 mths work finished in 2 hours with nothing to show

Vettel childish behaviour especially when in my mind he was totally at fault as he's the one that moved into webber.

[as65p]

What's really interesting is that you don't think less of him(or at least you haven't mentioned it) after his participation in the spygate crap.

Participation is hardly the correct term. He knew about it and was prepared to get along with it, even reap potential benefits, he didn't actively take part in the aquisition of the documents.

As I see it, he behaved like every other driver would have under the same circumstances. In fact like every of the numerous McLaren members who knew part or all of it behaved.

The alleged blackmailing is where it becomes interesting, but that only lasted for about an hour in reality, until he retracted the heat-of-the-moment threat to Dennis. Unfortunately by that time Ron has already phoned his dear friend Max Mosley and spilled the beans for good...

What's funny is people who blame Alonso for knowing about (and getting along with) it AND for his later testimonial to the FIA at the same time. But that doesn't work, unfortunately. Either one is of the opinion that he should have hanged McLaren as soon as he got a sniff of it, or that he should have kept quiet all the way. Can't have both...

[as65p]

For me, worse.

Alonso, fustration, 12 mths work finished in 2 hours with nothing to show

Vettel childish behaviour especially when in my mind he was totally at fault as he's the one that moved into webber.

Well, I think both matter very, very little. What matters far more in Vettels case is the silly driving error he made before (I agree that it was largely his responsibility).

But the expression of frustration by whatever silly gestures... pfft, who cares.

[Desdirodeabike]

It's telling that you left out the worse. I'm going to refresh your memory, in case you forgot.
In 2007 he was, knowingly, using stolen data from Ferrari(that is documented) After being denied number one status he blackmailed Ron with this fact. Although there's no proof of that I tend, given both track records, to believe Ron's account. If for nothing else he risked beeing sued by comming out with that. That's not all; After being given inmunity, and that's the only reason he was not punished, he testified against McLaren. His testimony was pivotal in McLaren's disqulification and fine. To top it all he gave an interview, published in this very site, congratulating himself on his whole colaboration with the FIA in the spygate afair. If you think this is great and cool, well... what can I say ? But I somehow can't imagine Raikkonen doing stuff like that.

Good post
Although Kohque made some good points as well.

If Alonso is a cock or not is obviously a futile discussion. Some people will not think he does any wrong no matter how much crap he has done. And it has amounted to quite a lot over the years so it is quite fascinating to see how some of his fans seem completely oblivious or in denial of this. I personally got what he was all about a long time ago. And his frequent antics and scandal flings only confirm this. He is a paranoid little man with a tendency to megalomania.

Vettels gesture? Bad form, of course. He should have held that under his breath. Even if he was or had been in the right.

[fabr68]

It's telling that you left out the worse. I'm going to refresh your memory, in case you forgot.
In 2007 he was, knowingly, using stolen data from Ferrari(that is documented) After being denied number one status he blackmailed Ron with this fact. Although there's no proof of that I tend, given both track records, to believe Ron's account. If for nothing else he risked beeing sued by comming out with that. That's not all; After being given inmunity, and that's the only reason he was not punished, he testified against McLaren. His testimony was pivotal in McLaren's disqulification and fine. To top it all he gave an interview, published in this very site, congratulating himself on his whole colaboration with the FIA in the spygate afair. If you think this is great and cool, well... what can I say ? But I somehow can't imagine Raikkonen doing stuff like that.

Please provide a link to your "fact". Last time I checked, It was Mclaren using the Ferrari stolen data on their cars (specifically Mclaren's engineers and test driver De la Rosa) and that is why they got the penalty they got. Also, Ron has a long record of holding personal vendettas with his drivers. Prost, Coulthard, Montoya, Alonso come to mind.

[as65p]

Good post
Although Kohque made some good points as well.

If Alonso is a cock or not is obviously a futile discussion. Some people will not think he does any wrong no matter how much crap he has done. And it has amounted to quite a lot over the years so it is quite fascinating to see how some of his fans seem completely oblivious or in denial of this. I personally got what he was all about a long time ago. And his frequent antics and scandal flings only confirm this. He is a paranoid little man with a tendency to megalomania.

Vettels gesture? Bad form, of course. He should have held that under his breath. Even if he was or had been in the right.

Well, the way you judge Alonsos gesturing towards Petrov vs. Vettels gesturing towards Webber is quite telling. The first apparently proves that Alonso is a dick/cock, whereas the latter is just [neglible] bad form.

Say no more...

[Suntrek]

It's telling that you left out the worse. I'm going to refresh your memory, in case you forgot.
In 2007 he was, knowingly, using stolen data from Ferrari(that is documented) After being denied number one status he blackmailed Ron with this fact. Although there's no proof of that I tend, given both track records, to believe Ron's account. If for nothing else he risked beeing sued by comming out with that. That's not all; After being given inmunity, and that's the only reason he was not punished, he testified against McLaren. His testimony was pivotal in McLaren's disqulification and fine. To top it all he gave an interview, published in this very site, congratulating himself on his whole colaboration with the FIA in the spygate afair. If you think this is great and cool, well... what can I say ? But I somehow can't imagine Raikkonen doing stuff like that.

What utter nonsense.

1. He wasn't using stolen data, he was discussing stolen data via e-mail with Pedro de la Rosa. That is confirmed by Pedro de la Rosa in the WMSC hearing. The data Alonso and de la Rosa had access to was never used. Or de la Rosa is lying. Pick your choice.

2, Alonso never testified against McLaren, let alone was his testimony "pivotal". He wasn't even present at the hearing. It was de la Rosa who testified.

Funnily enough no one wants dear old de la Rosa hanged for testifying and collaborating directly with Coughlan - fine with me, but at least get your facts straight.

Edited by Suntrek, 28 April 2011 - 23:49.

[speng]

Well, the way you judge Alonsos gesturing towards Petrov vs. Vettels gesturing towards Webber is quite telling. The first apparently proves that Alonso is a dick/cock, whereas the latter is just [neglible] bad form.

Say no more...

as if gesturing towards Petrov was all Alonso was guilty of ....

[Desdirodeabike]

Well, the way you judge Alonsos gesturing towards Petrov vs. Vettels gesturing towards Webber is quite telling. The first apparently proves that Alonso is a dick/cock, whereas the latter is just [neglible] bad form.

Say no more...

Oh dear
If the Petrov incident was a first from Alonso, then it would be similar. But with him it is the norm - not the exception. As I said, it was just one example.
However, you seem to purposely want to misunderstand, almost like an agenda. So I should just cast my pearls elsewhere and not before you.

[Hairpin]

Please provide a link to your "fact". Last time I checked, It was Mclaren using the Ferrari stolen data on their cars (specifically Mclaren's engineers and test driver De la Rosa) and that is why they got the penalty they got. Also, Ron has a long record of holding personal vendettas with his drivers. Prost, Coulthard, Montoya, Alonso come to mind.

I think, technically, Alonso did indeed "use" the stolen data since he was the actual driver of the vehicle that was prepared using "stolen" data.

[as65p]

So I should just cast my pearls elsewhere and not before you.

No doubt. I'm not worthy of so much wisdom...

[as65p]

as if gesturing towards Petrov was all Alonso was guilty of ....

Just go ahead, list everything else again. This thread can take it...

[revlec]

Please provide a link to your "fact". Last time I checked, It was Mclaren using the Ferrari stolen data on their cars (specifically Mclaren's engineers and test driver De la Rosa) and that is why they got the penalty they got. Also, Ron has a long record of holding personal vendettas with his drivers. Prost, Coulthard, Montoya, Alonso come to mind.

Not incorrect, but Fernando Alonso was soliciting De La Rosa and Coughlan to use it(he actually wanted to test it personally) and didn't even for a second suggest them it was illegal and they had to stop..
Here below is the FIA transcript of the World Motor Sport Council hearing in Paris, the day 13 september of 2007
use the words "alonso", "hamilton" , "McLaren" with the search function...

http://press.fiacomm...13-09-2007a.pdf



p.s: Alonso is clever, he is the final user and he outsmarts often others to benefit from things... do you truly believe he was not aware that Piquet had to crash in Singapore 2008? for what reason he had to pit soooo early in the race?? we are not all dumb..

Edited by revlec, 28 April 2011 - 23:27.

[Desdirodeabike]

No doubt. I'm not worthy of so much wisdom...

Im not surprised that you missed the reference and my subtle insult. Only makes it better for me I guess Good night.

[as65p]

Im not surprised that you missed the reference and my subtle insult. Only makes it better for me I guess Good night.

Yeah. Nothing more subtle than hammering it home to the recipient how subtle you are. You're the complete package, no doubt about it.

Godd night to you too!

[speng]

Just go ahead, list everything else again. This thread can take it...

if you do not know by now it will be a waste of time.

Edited by speng, 29 April 2011 - 00:32.

[fabr68]

I think, technically, Alonso did indeed "use" the stolen data since he was the actual driver of the vehicle that was prepared using "stolen" data.

True but another driver also used the same identical machinery in 2007 under the Mclaren zen equality policy. But no-one would touch that subject with a ten foot pole or is accusing him of being a cheater "using" such car, in fact he enjoys all the credit for that season.

[revlec]

True but another driver also used the same identical machinery in 2007 under the Mclaren zen equality policy. But no-one would touch that subject with a ten foot pole or is accusing him of being a cheater "using" such car, in fact he enjoys all the credit for that season.;)

i had no doubt you would not read the official FIA transcripts i posted above..;)
you asked a link, i gave you one, but you didn't say a word about it yet...

Edited by revlec, 29 April 2011 - 00:08.

[Hairpin]

True but another driver also used the same identical machinery in 2007 under the Mclaren zen equality policy. But no-one would touch that subject with a ten foot pole or is accusing him of being a cheater "using" such car, in fact he enjoys all the credit for that season.

I am not sure there is any proof Hamilton knew about the Ferrari data so in that history will correctly focus on the rookie that beat the experienced World Champion.

[Suntrek]

Not incorrect, but Fernando Alonso was soliciting De La Rosa and Coughlan to use it(he actually wanted to test it personally) and didn't even for a second suggest them it was illegal and they had to stop..
Here below is the FIA transcript of the World Motor Sport Council hearing in Paris, the day 13 september of 2007
use the words "alonso", "hamilton" , "McLaren" with the search function...

http://press.fiacomm...13-09-2007a.pdf



p.s: Alonso is clever, he is the final user and he outsmarts often others to benefit from things... do you truly believe he was not aware that Piquet had to crash in Singapore 2008? for what reason he had to pit soooo early in the race?? we are not all dumb..

It's much easier to read the WMSC decision where we can see EXACTLY what Alonso is suggesting to try at McLaren. Personally? Perhaps, but I don't think that's particulary important.

It concerns the tyre gas Ferrari uses.

3.13 Mr de la Rosa’s e-mail to Mr. Alonso on 25 March 2007 at 01.43 identified a gas
that Ferrari uses to inflate its tyres to reduce the internal temperature and
blistering. The e-mail concludes with a statement (in relation to the gas) that
“we’ll have to try it, it’s easy!”.

3.14 Mr Alonso replied at 12.31 that it is “very important” that McLaren test the gas
that Ferrari uses in its tyres as “they have something different from the rest”, and
“not only this year. there is something else and this may be the key; let’s hope
we can test it during this test, and that we can make it a priority!”.

That is all. That is absolutely all Alonso wants to try. And it doesn't even concerns Ferrari as such, it concerns the Bridgestone tyres. However, de la Rosa is talking about it with a Bridgestone engineer and nothing becomes of it.

The rest of the correspondance between de la Rosa and Alonso is a discussion about Ferrari's weight distribution and brake system. No one is suggesting to try neither this nor that. Just a discussion. Please read the WHOLE decision with ALL the new evidence and then tell me Alonso's role was in any way "pivotal" in this sad affair. Still it's him that's painted out as the great villain. I'd laugh if it wasn't so pathetic.

http://www.fia.com/r...sion_130907.pdf

Edited by Suntrek, 29 April 2011 - 00:25.

[Hairpin]

That is all. That is absolutely all Alonso wants to try. And it doesn't even concerns Ferrari as such, it concerns the Bridgestone tyres. However, de la Rosa is talking about it with a Bridgestone engineer and nothing becomes of it.

The rest of the correspondance between de la Rosa and Alonso is a discussion about Ferrari's weight distribution and brake system. No one is suggesting to try neither this nor that. Just a discussion. Please read the WHOLE decision with ALL the new evidence and then tell me Alonso's role was in any way "pivotal" in this sad affair. Still it's him that's painted out as the great villain. I'd laugh if it wasn't so pathetic.

http://www.fia.com/r...sion_130907.pdf

You draw strange conclusions....

[cardin]

It's much easier to read the WMSC decision where we can see EXACTLY what Alonso is suggesting to try at McLaren. Personally? Perhaps, but I don't think that's particulary important.

It concerns the tyre gas Ferrari uses.



That is all. That is absolutely all Alonso wants to try. And it doesn't even concerns Ferrari as such, it concerns the Bridgestone tyres. However, de la Rosa is talking about it with a Bridgestone engineer and nothing becomes of it.

The rest of the correspondance between de la Rosa and Alonso is a discussion about Ferrari's weight distribution and brake system. No one is suggesting to try neither this nor that. Just a discussion. Please read the WHOLE decision with ALL the new evidence and then tell me Alonso's role was in any way "pivotal" in this sad affair. Still it's him that's painted out as the great villain. I'd laugh if it wasn't so pathetic.

http://www.fia.com/r...sion_130907.pdf

What I think is pathetic is your desperate try at spinning. You should follow your own advice and read the freaking document. Here's a little excerpt from it:

3 New Evidence – E-mails between McLaren Drivers

3.1 In the period after the 26 July Decision, the FIA was made aware of a specific
allegation that e-mails relevant to the FIA’s investigation had been exchanged
between certain McLaren drivers.

3.2 The FIA therefore wrote to three McLaren drivers (Mr. Alonso, Mr. Hamilton and
Mr. de la Rosa) to establish whether or not this allegation had any basis in fact
and requested that they produce copies of any relevant documents, including any
electronic communications (howsoever conveyed or stored) which may be
relevant to this case and which make reference to Ferrari, Ferrari’s employee
Nigel Stepney (“Stepney”) or any technical or other information coming from or connected with either Ferrari or Stepney.

3.3 The McLaren drivers were reminded of their duty as competitors and Super
Licence holders to ensure the fairness and legitimacy of the Formula One World
Championship. Given the importance of establishing the facts and that the
information might not come out any other way, the FIA offered the assurance that
any information made available in response to the letter would not result in any
proceedings against the drivers personally under the International Sporting Code
or the Formula One Regulations. However, the drivers were notified that if it
later came to light that they had withheld any potentially relevant information,
serious consequences could follow.

3.4 All three drivers responded. Mr. Hamilton responded that he had no information
responsive to the FIA’s request. Mr. Alonso and Mr. de la Rosa both submitted e-
mails to the FIA which the WMSC finds highly relevant. Subsequently (at
McLaren’s request) both Mr. Alonso and Mr. de la Rosa made written statements
to the WMSC verifying that these e-mails were sent and received and offering
context and explanations regarding the e-mails. The e-mails show unequivocally
that both Mr. Alonso and Mr. de la Rosa received confidential Ferrari information
via Coughlan; that both drivers knew that this information was confidential
Ferrari information and that both knew that the information was being received by
Coughlan from Stepney.

Yes, Alonso and de la Rosa produced the emails. Yes, Alonso testified by written testment. And yes, the emails were pivotal, they were the smoking gun

[Suntrek]

What I think is pathetic is your desperate try at spinning. You should follow your own advice and read the freaking document. Here's a little excerpt from it:


Yes, Alonso and de la Rosa produced the emails. Yes, Alonso testified by written testment. And yes, the emails were pivotal, they were the smoking gun

Oh, in that case - Alonso did indeed testify. That the e-mails were his. Big deal. We all know that the e-mails exist and were sent and that Alonso and de la Rosa had access to Ferrari information, nobody is denying that.

What you claimed in your original post was that Alonso's testimony was brought McLaren down, and that is - at least in my opinion - a competely different thing. McLaren brought themselves down. The smoking gun wasn't the e-mails but this litlle bit from the first WMSC hearing

But if it is found in the future that the Ferrari information has been used to the detriment of the championship, we reserve the right to invite Vodafone McLaren Mercedes back in front of the WMSC where it will face the possibility of exclusion from not only the 2007 championship but also the 2008 championship

If McLaren had done a proper investigation of their own staff AND drivers in the first place instead of trying to sweep everything under the carpet, none of this would have happened.

[HPT]

I think you're mistaking rudeness and petulance for being cool and reserved.

I wouldn't mind seeing more Raikkonens. But while you're entitled to your opinion, I personally would rather see fewer Alonsos. The tantrums might be cringe-makingly entertaining, and good for a laugh when talking about the race with friends, but do we really need uber-villains in F1? I'd rather focus on the skills of the drivers than their behaviour. Alonso can be a good driver when he's not blinded by his personal vendettas and obsessions. But his constant need to do others down has turned him into an object of ridicule.

Is this the same Raikkonen who shoved a marshal at Sepang? The one who pushed a respected photographer to the ground for accidentally leaning on his bag? Raikkonen has no respect for anyone. And he is definitely not as passionate about F1 than Alonso. A lot of Alonso's actions are driven by his passion to win. It comes with the territory. He is definitely flawed and has issues, but I just can't understand how people could make it seem as though Kimi is such a great person while Alonso is a wicked villain. I think you'd find Kimi to be a far more rude person than Alonso.

[HPT]

Yeah. Nothing more subtle than hammering it home to the recipient how subtle you are. You're the complete package, no doubt about it.

Godd night to you too!

[Man of the race]

Some are racers and some are players by nature. Fernando is the latter.

[Mary Popsins]

Please provide a link to your "fact". Last time I checked, It was Mclaren using the Ferrari stolen data on their cars (specifically Mclaren's engineers and test driver De la Rosa) and that is why they got the penalty they got. Also, Ron has a long record of holding personal vendettas with his drivers. Prost, Coulthard, Montoya, Alonso come to mind.

A bit ridiculous to be honest. You ask for a link, which is quite justify although you know the story by yourself .
On the other hand you make an assessment about Ron Dennis which is as insightful as the most old-fashioned gossip.

I was just reading about Button and how happy he is at McLaren and I thought that it's nice to have such people to listen to. The ones who've got it all and don't feel the urge to complain about their luck.

[Kohque]

i had no doubt you would not read the official FIA transcripts i posted above..;)
you asked a link, i gave you one, but you didn't say a word about it yet...

No need for that. McLaren had Ferrari's specs. What do you think they did? Wait for a "go ahead" from Alonso and Hamilton to take advantage of that information?

That year McLaren should have been banned from the championship and they almost won . That was the big story, not whether Alonso thought it would be useful to actually "use" data... I mean, picture this:

McLaren dude: Hey, he have the specs from Ferrari and with this we can close the gap. Wanna use it?

Alonso: Oh, geez, I didn't know it was up to me! No, dude, that is cheating. I rather be slower and let Ferrari win now.

McLaren dude: Mmmm, makes sense. Do you want me to give it back to them?

Alonso: No, better. Wait until Mosley finally discovers that we have been cheating all along, and when the FIA asks me to bring my emails as evidence I will gladly do it to incriminate De La Rosa, myself and of course the team.

McLaren dude: So you will look like a cheat too. Yeah, it makes so much sense now... Thanks, mate!

Alonso: Welcome. Always ready to screw myself.

[aragon]

Oh dear
If the Petrov incident was a first from Alonso, then it would be similar. But with him it is the norm - not the exception. As I said, it was just one example.
However, you seem to purposely want to misunderstand, almost like an agenda. So I should just cast my pearls elsewhere and not before you.

Oh dear, he caught you pants down. And you said you are not biased against Alonso.

This thread has to be renamed Alonso vs Kimi really. Thus some fans will be on topic.

[Desdirodeabike]

Oh dear, he caught you pants down. And you said you are not biased against Alonso.

This thread has to be renamed Alonso vs Kimi really. Thus some fans will be on topic.

Lol What are you on about little fella? Where have I said I was or was not biased against Alonso? I have always made it clear that I dont care much about him. In fact, a few posts earlier I said this:

I personally got what he was all about a long time ago. And his frequent antics and scandal flings only confirm this. He is a paranoid little man with a tendency to megalomania.

And I wouldnt call it bias. Just calling it like I see it But I did praise him for racing fairly when wheel to wheel.

And if you glance through this thread, you will find that the Alonso fans manage to bring up Kimi time and again all on their own.

[puxanando]

He is a paranoid little man with a tendency to megalomania.

[Desdirodeabike]

Is this the same Raikkonen who shoved a marshal at Sepang? The one who pushed a respected photographer to the ground for accidentally leaning on his bag? Raikkonen has no respect for anyone. And he is definitely not as passionate about F1 than Alonso. A lot of Alonso's actions are driven by his passion to win. It comes with the territory. He is definitely flawed and has issues, but I just can't understand how people could make it seem as though Kimi is such a great person while Alonso is a wicked villain. I think you'd find Kimi to be a far more rude person than Alonso.

It always amuses me to see people claim they can tell what level of passion a driver has. Newsflash - you cant. And especially when we are talking about a character like Kimi. He has always marched to the beat of his own drum and his finnish and secluded personality makes naive people think they can tell exactly what his passion, emotions and dedication is. Again, you cant. Even with Alonso who plays the media and some of his fans like a fiddle, you cant exactly know what is going on in there. He is just very good at saying all the right things that make his followers feel all gooey inside. That was never Kimis strength. If that indeed is a strength.

Your statement of "Kimi has no respect for anyone" just shows you do not have a clue of what you are talking about.
Alonso had the audacity to claim that he was "happy to help the FIA clear up the spygate scandal". That shows a total lack of respect if you ask me. To everyone that was hit hard by it. Not only was he heavily involved. He was also summoned to explain himself. But he is trying to make it sound like he was some kind of heroic whistleblower that cleared things up. When in fact he was one of the perpetrators. I gotta hand it to him. Its a clever choice of words and he may fool a lot of people with it. But not me.

[aragon]

Lol What are you on about little fella? Where have I said I was or was not biased against Alonso? I have always made it clear that I dont care much about him. In fact, a few posts earlier I said this:
And I wouldnt call it bias. Just calling it like I see it But I did praise him for racing fairly when wheel to wheel.

And if you glance through this thread, you will find that the Alonso fans manage to bring up Kimi time and again all on their own.

Users can't take it seriously what you are posting when you came with Vettel is okay when he is doing this but Alonso is not by doing the same thing. Calling like "you see" it doesn't mean it isn't a bias, especially when you see the same thing in too different ways(one for Vetel and other for Alonso). Really... Alonso's gesture toward Petrov was a frustrating unnecessary stupid thing as was Vettel's.

By posting here nonsenses like this you prove that you do care about him trying to put him in a negative light as much as you can.

You know what, it's not Alonso's fault that Kimi has been kicked off, it was his on fault. I wonder when Kimi fans will finally realize this.

[Kohque]

Alonso had the audacity to claim that he was "happy to help the FIA clear up the spygate scandal". That shows a total lack of respect if you ask me. To everyone that was hit hard by it. Not only was he heavily involved. He was also summoned to explain himself. But he is trying to make it sound like he was some kind of heroic whistleblower that cleared things up. When in fact he was one of the perpetrators. I gotta hand it to him. Its a clever choice of words and he may fool a lot of people with it. But not me.

Yeah, the guy was a real bold He should have said "I didn't want to cooperate. I did it because they force me to"... And then he will be called a chicken or a liar or whatever people think is a "clever choice of words".

Dude, when you don't like someone, you are always going to listen to what he says with your rear, so no matter what it is, it will always give you a funny smell.

He was heavily involved... Yeah, nice "choice of words". It looks like he was the mastermind behind the whole thing. He basically requested Ron Dennis to use the Ferrari specs, or else...

What whistleblower? Tell me exactly what would you do if the FIA asks you to testify in relation to some personal emails which prove your team, and YOU, were cheating... You would refuse, we all know, and then put a brave face to the whatever penalty the FIA consider proper. Or, if you were in your right mind, you may consider to clear yourself as much as possible from any involvement in the scandal. But I guess that is only a right that villains cannot enjoy.

The question is not if he should had testify or not (duh!), but how did the FIA got the emails? Did Alonso just hand it to them and say "hey dudes, look at me cheating!"?