1496 replies to this topic

[EMorris]

Guys check out the race edit on f1 website. Interesting radio conversation

[Brandz07]

Guys check out the race edit on f1 website. Interesting radio conversation

finally, been waiting for this!

well worth the wait, loved that, great radio and the music matched perfectly

Edited by Brandz07, 04 June 2010 - 11:22.

[fed up]

Guys check out the race edit on f1 website. Interesting radio conversation

do tell, please!

work wouldn't appreciate the sound of F1 cars on my PC

[Bonaventura]

Guys check out the race edit on f1 website. Interesting radio conversation

[zeph]

Guys check out the race edit on f1 website. Interesting radio conversation

Things that make you go mmmmm.....

[fed up]

what was said?????????

[EMorris]

what was said?????????

Team - Lewis we need you to save fuel. Both cars doing the same.

Lewis - Jensons closing in on me you guys.

Team - Understood Lewis

Lewis - If I back off is Jenson going to pass me or not?

Team - No Lewis... No

[Darth Sidious]

Team - Lewis we need you to save fuel. Both cars doing the same.

Lewis - Jensons closing in on me you guys.

Team - Understood Lewis

Lewis - If I back off is Jenson going to pass me or not?

Team - No Lewis... No

Feck me no wonder he was pissed!

[bauss]

wow that race edit is cool, sheds more light.. Lewis wasnt as naive to the threat of Jenson as I thought....he specifically told the pit after the save fuel talk 'Jenson is closing on me guys, If I back of will Jenson attack me' Pit told him categorically: 'No'.

Then sht happened.

Major cock-up by pitcrew...again, they definitely dodged a bullet with Lewis getting the position back. He would have had every right to be super-pissed off if the Jenson overtake stuck.

[fed up]

Team - Lewis we need you to save fuel. Both cars doing the same.

Lewis - Jensons closing in on me you guys.

Team - Understood Lewis

Lewis - If I back off is Jenson going to pass me or not?

Team - No Lewis... No

Thanks

Either the team lied or Jenson took things into his own hands.

Either way Lewis won the race

[Grenada]

Well done JB fan

Ha ha, you know me!

[rodoal1515]

Very interesting bit of radio feed there. But, and a BIG but, it doesn't mean that Jenson was being cheeky, out of order, etc, by passing; we don't know if he was told by his engineer - categorically - to refrain from overtaking.

[bond]

Team - Lewis we need you to save fuel. Both cars doing the same.

Lewis - Jensons closing in on me you guys.

Team - Understood Lewis

Lewis - If I back off is Jenson going to pass me or not?

Team - No Lewis... No

Wow, this radio chat was really enlightening....
No wonder he was pissed.
Now i see what's going on before the podium ceremony...
I just can't believe how they allowed this to happen, or was button that took on his own to do the pass?...

[Brandz07]

i'd say there was a misunderstanding rather than button taking it in to his own hands

[zeph]

wow that race edit is cool, sheds more light.. Lewis wasnt as naive to the threat of Jenson as I thought....he specifically told the pit after the save fuel talk 'Jenson is closing on me guys, If I back of will Jenson attack me' Pit told him categorically: 'No'.

Then sht happened.

Major cock-up by pitcrew...again, they definitely dodged a bullet with Lewis getting the position back. He would have had every right to be super-pissed off if the Jenson overtake stuck.

Sure, but I had the impression that when Hamilton took his position back (with them touching wheels et all), Button sort of let it slide and backed off. The F1 race edit posted above shows that after the passing move, Button got radioed that fuel is critical and he should consolidate. And why not? With the RBR scuffle freshly imprinted on his mind, I'm sure he felt it better to just take the car home and collect points. After all, he is still ahead and the season is long.

[fed up]

or was button that took on his own to do the pass?...

I hope so

It wouldn't be good if the team were lying to Lewis to the extent that he couldn't trust his pit radio.

Lewis' constant praise of Button is also a bit disingenuous - he must hate the guy.

[trogggy]

Lewis' constant praise of Button is also a bit disingenuous - he must hate the guy.

Another Lewis fan calling Lewis a liar.

Weird.

[fed up]

i'd say there was a misunderstanding rather than button taking it in to his own hands

Sorry, there can't be a misunderstanding as Lewis asked the 'team' a direct question and they gave a direct answer - no ambiguity in a straight forward no!

[bauss]

also in that radio chat, we have the answer to some big argument we have had here over the past few days with some JB fans insinuating that Lewis made some sort of mistake in turn 8 on that fateful lap to initiate the overtake.

We can now be sure there was no mistake, Lewis backed off to save fuel having being categorically assured that Button wont attack. A false assurance.

[bond]

trogggy, what's your take now that we've heard the radio chat?...

[united2010]

Very revealing, explains Hamiltons frustration really

[fed up]

Another Lewis fan calling Lewis a liar.

Weird.

No, I'm not calling him a liar, I just think there is something odd in what he is saying publicly about the team and Jenson Button as his team mate. He was sufficiently upset on sunday not to celebrate the win on the podium, yet he hasn't said anything publicly about the deception that nearly cost him a win.

Weird

[peroa]

Team - Lewis we need you to save fuel. Both cars doing the same.

Lewis - Jensons closing in on me you guys.

Team - Understood Lewis

Lewis - If I back off is Jenson going to pass me or not?

Team - No Lewis... No

Wow, this radio chat was really enlightening....
No wonder he was pissed.
Now i see what's going on before the podium ceremony...
I just can't believe how they allowed this to happen, or was button that took on his own to do the pass?...

I haven't seen the video yet, who is talking to him?

[bond]

I haven't seen the video yet, who is talking to him?

Here's the link: http://www.formula1....race_edits.html

Don't know who in the team is talking to him, i suppose his engineer...

[harrows]

Team - Lewis we need you to save fuel. Both cars doing the same.

Lewis - Jensons closing in on me you guys.

Team - Understood Lewis

Lewis - If I back off is Jenson going to pass me or not?

Team - No Lewis... No

Wow, this radio chat was really enlightening....
No wonder he was pissed.
Now i see what's going on before the podium ceremony...
I just can't believe how they allowed this to happen, or was button that took on his own to do the pass?...

I wonder why Jenson wasn't more pissed. Why shouldn't he be allowed to overtake?

[Brandz07]

Sorry, there can't be a misunderstanding as Lewis asked the 'team' a direct question and they gave a direct answer - no ambiguity in a straight forward no!

no, i mean a misunderstanding between what lewis and jenson were told.

[trogggy]

trogggy, what's your take now that we've heard the radio chat?...

That LH wasn't expecting to be overtaken.

No?

[bauss]

Sure, but I had the impression that when Hamilton took his position back (with them touching wheels et all), Button sort of let it slide and backed off. The F1 race edit posted above shows that after the passing move, Button got radioed that fuel is critical and he should consolidate. And why not? With the RBR scuffle freshly imprinted on his mind, I'm sure he felt it better to just take the car home and collect points. After all, he is still ahead and the season is long.

Yes that much we already knew... the fuel is critical message, was code for "come on son, dont fk it all up now... hold position".


I suspect the cock-up happened with either Lewis engineer not passing the message to Jensons engineer emphasizing to Jenson that they werent racing anymore, or Jenson's engineer simply ignored passing on the instruction to Jenson.

I doubt Jenson took it on himself to categorically disobey orders (he doesnt come across that bone-headed, though can't underestimate his determination to one-up Lewis whenever possible).... except they told him to hold station in code (as they cant say it directly), and Jenson just played dumb like he didnt get the actual message.... that will be the sneaky part.

But we cant confirm this atm so its unfair to beat Button with that stick.

Edited by bauss, 04 June 2010 - 12:04.

[trogggy]

No, I'm not calling him a liar, I just think there is something odd in what he is saying publicly about the team and Jenson Button as his team mate. He was sufficiently upset on sunday not to celebrate the win on the podium, yet he hasn't said anything publicly about the deception that nearly cost him a win.

Weird

Yes you are.

What deception?
Who was being dishonest?

[Pharazon]

can cleary see why Lewis was so pissed now

[Darth Sidious]

Here's the link: http://www.formula1....race_edits.html

Don't know who in the team is talking to him, i suppose his engineer...

Didn't sound like Prew to me. Not heard much of Latham to be sure...

[muramasa]

Sorry, there can't be a misunderstanding as Lewis asked the 'team' a direct question and they gave a direct answer - no ambiguity in a straight forward no!

how come there can't be misunderstanding?

- Lewis engineer told him carelessly without making sure
- JB engineer didnt, forgot, or was not told to, tell JB
- chief engineer didnt make sure to tell both drivers
- etc

you only believe what you want to believe, that is, JB cheated, which is most unlikely.

[bond]

That LH wasn't expecting to be overtaken.

No?

I'm talking about button overtaking him while both were expected to hold station by the team...

[undersquare]

Wel ffs. In fact, ffffffffffs.

That very deliberate way Lewis speaks, with the intonation, "If I back off, is Jenson going to overtake" , he obviously suspects what's going to
happen.

No wonder he was furious with the team.

Why haven't we got Jenson's radio??

[peroa]

What is pi**ing me off is that they are still dumb enough to not say it like it is on sunday after the race. These things have a way to get public, especially such revealing radio conversations. FOM has everything on tape, jebus ...

[Grenada]

Right, just listened to it.

All those who thought this was fair racing, please now admit you were wrong.

All those who thought there was nothing wrong with the body language, please now admit you were wrong.

This is a disgrace. This is not fair racing.

I never liked Button, but now he has plummeted further in my estimation.

Either he disobeyed the call to save fuel, or the team, yes McLaren, are trying to stitch up Lewis by getting him to slow down so that Button can overtake him, but not in a fair, wheel to wheel racing way.

Button fans, is that how you want your man to win? I wouldn't want Lewis to win that way.

So, are the conspiracy theories back in circulation? Some of you were right though: the truth will out!

Utterly disgusted!!!!!!!!

[Gareth]

Well, it was pretty clear that the line coming from the team and Lewis on Sunday didn't explain why Lewis was so visably unhappy post race. I guess we now have that explanation.

Clearly there was a mix up somewhere and I wonder where that was. My guess was that Lewis' engineer answered Lewis' direct question with a no because he assumed that if they were both hitting the same target lap time, there was no possibility for Jenson to pass. Lewis then dips slightly below his targetted time by backing off a bit too much, Jenson who's only been told to target X lap time but hasn't been told "don't race" sees an opportunity and goes for it. Hamilton feels like either his team have misled him or Jenson's gone against team instruction.

Certainly explains Paddy's whispered chat with him.

EDIT:

You add on how frustrated he was with the team after his pit stop (also on the radio) plus him getting the wrong end of the pit calls in Australia and China and you could see why you'd have a quite frustrated Lewis post race Sunday.

[Dalton007]

Clearly the video suggests that Jenson was either not given appropriate instruction or that he saw his chance and decided to go for it despite being ordered to save fuel.

[trogggy]

I'm talking about button overtaking him while both were expected to hold station by the team...

Really?
Do we know what JB was told?

[Darth Sidious]

I wonder why Jenson wasn't more pissed. Why shouldn't he be allowed to overtake?

Maybe it had something to do with the fact that fuel was critical?

The team have already claimed they were almost DSQ'd because there was barely enough fuel left in either car to pass the weight limit and the fuel sample procedures after the race.

If he'd been allowed to overtake, and then Hamilton hadn't been denied taking the fight back to him so they both ran flat out until the end and ran out of fuel on the slowdown lap and then both cars got DSQ'd would you be happier about it? Well, yeah you might but I'm pretty sure the team would be mightily pissed off.

Edited by Darth Sidious, 04 June 2010 - 12:08.

[fed up]

how come there can't be misunderstanding?

- Lewis engineer told him carelessly without making sure
- JB engineer didnt, forgot, or was not told to, tell JB
- chief engineer didnt make sure to tell both drivers
- etc

you only believe what you want to believe, that is, JB cheated, which is most unlikely.

Fair enough, but I tend to see things as black and white. I don't see any misunderstanding when a driver asks a straight question and gets a straight answer. If the engineer had said it was unlikely that Jenson would pass, I would accept that there was a misunderstanding as the answer to Lewis' direct question hadn't been answered unequivocally.

And my guess is the voice you hear is that of Phil Prew

[Grenada]

Another Lewis fan calling Lewis a liar.

Weird.

Is that really all you can say about this incident? The mind boggles.

[harrows]

We don't know when that transmission was made.

Remember, according to JB, an apparent mistake - not backing off - was the only thing allowing him to overtake at all.

I didn't hear LH asking "If I make a mistake, will JB overtake me"..................

[Gareth]

Really?
Do we know what JB was told?

Jenson's been quite catagoric about what he was told. And his reaction when he overheard Lewis and Mark chatting and assumed it was about him ("all the team told me was ..." or the like) seemed like a very natural one to me. I'm sure he'd know that any "hold station" order would be easily discovered (and would have been on that FOM video if it existed) and I don't see him as the type to say something untrue.

So I think it's pretty clear Jenson didn't get any "don't overtake" order.

I think Hamilton's engineer answered the "will Jenson overtake" question as "no" in the sense of if both did 1:31's they'd both hold position. Whereas Hamilton took the answer (understandably) as if I back off to any extent I won't get passed. Jenson just gets told "do 1:31's" and there we have our mix up.

[trogggy]

Is that really all you can say about this incident? The mind boggles.

When Lewis says something you don't agree with you say he's lying.

Nobody's making you do that.

[robefc]

So...Macca's new system of having Prew as an overall engineer to ensure equality and clear communication is working really well....

Hard to tell without further information but if lewis's engineer got it wrong it's hardly going to help their relationship, I would have thoguht trust between the driver and engineer is key.

If jenson and/or his engineer deliberately took advantage then I'd be seriously p*ssed if I was lewis.

[undersquare]

Well, it was pretty clear that the line coming from the team and Lewis on Sunday didn't explain why Lewis was so visably unhappy post race. I guess we now have that explanation.

Clearly there was a mix up somewhere and I wonder where that was. My guess was that Lewis' engineer answered Lewis' direct question with a no because he assumed that if they were both hitting the same target lap time, there was no possibility for Jenson to pass. Lewis then dips slightly below his targetted time by backing off a bit too much, Jenson who's only been told to target X lap time but hasn't been told "don't race" sees an opportunity and goes for it. Hamilton feels like either his team have misled him or Jenson's gone against team instruction.

Certainly explains Paddy's whispered chat with him.

EDIT:

You add on how frustrated he was with the team after his pit stop (also on the radio) plus him getting the wrong end of the pit calls in Australia and China and you could see why you'd have a quite frustrated Lewis post race Sunday.

Yeah, Andy Latham just replied immediately to Lewis' question, didn't go and check, maybe that's the disconnect.

I suppose the lack of a huge explosion (so far) and his improving mood on the podium points to Lewis accepting it as a cockup.

Hope we get some better answers out of the team in Canada. The sheer amount of bull about it from everyone involved was disappointing all on its own.

[bond]

Really?
Do we know what JB was told?

Oh, now you're calling, who ever made the call to lewis a liar...

[Dalton007]

Right, just listened to it.

All those who thought this was fair racing, please now admit you were wrong.

All those who thought there was nothing wrong with the body language, please now admit you were wrong.

This is a disgrace. This is not fair racing.

There's no such thing as fair in motor racing.

I never liked Button, but now he has plummeted further in my estimation.

We get it.

Either he disobeyed the call to save fuel, or the team, yes McLaren, are trying to stitch up Lewis by getting him to slow down so that Button can overtake him, but not in a fair, wheel to wheel racing way.

We don't know what Button's instruction were, but clearly you do because you are using every opportunity to blame him.

Button fans, is that how you want your man to win? I wouldn't want Lewis to win that way.

Well, it didn't hurt Michael Schumacher. I'd prefer Jenson to win with Lewis at 100%, but points don't reflect anything other than your result. A win is a win.

So, are the conspiracy theories back in circulation? Some of you were right though: the truth will out!

Utterly disgusted!!!!!!!!

Perhaps get laid?

[trogggy]

Jenson's been quite catagoric about what he was told. And his reaction when he overheard Lewis and Mark chatting and assumed it was about him ("all the team told me was ..." or the like) seemed like a very natural one to me. I'm sure he'd know that any "hold station" order would be easily discovered (and would have been on that FOM video if it existed) and I don't see him as the type to say something untrue.

So I think it's pretty clear Jenson didn't get any "don't overtake" order.

I think Hamilton's engineer answered the "will Jenson overtake" question as "no" in the sense of if both did 1:31's they'd both hold position. Whereas Hamilton took the answer (understandably) as if I back off to any extent I won't get passed. Jenson just gets told "do 1:31's" and there we have our mix up.

Well quite.

It's not necessary to jump to conclusions and think the worst of JB.
Just easy.