96 replies to this topic

[robefc]

I don't know if this will prove popular or not but I'm interested in hearing how press from around the world view controversial incidents in F1 - and this weekend seems like a good weekend to start!

I imagine most are aware from the press conference that the british press have been pretty scathing. Admittedly it was 2 british tabloid hacks asking the questions but the papers have continued in the same vein today. Part of this might be because it's a) ferrari and b) alonso but I don't think it's limited to that, the british press are pefectly capable of being scathing about their own too when they feel it's appropriate.

So, international members, what's the view around the world? Particularly interested in the Italian and Spanish view...

Also I have heard, via twitter, that the Brazilian press are crucifying Felipe....?

[robefc]

Hopefully doesn't defeat the object of this thread but here's a nice summary of various country's media....

http://www.motorspor...p...79436&FS=F1

Edited by robefc, 26 July 2010 - 10:42.

[harrows]

From that article:

Rio de Janeiro's Lance added: "We regret writing it, but from Massa it was a lack of courage."

I disagree completely. It took huge balls for Smedley and Felipe to come out and bring this to light. He could have hidden it in a million different ways and the whole world would think Alonso got a deserved victory.

Felipe

PS, can anyone translate Lobato's blog musings about this

[F.M.]

From that article:



I disagree completely. It took huge balls for Smedley and Felipe to come out and bring this to light. He could have hidden it in a million different ways and the whole world would think Alonso got a deserved victory.

Felipe

PS, can anyone translate Lobato's blog musings about this

he doens't have a story up yet

[flyer121]

From that article:



I disagree completely. It took huge balls for Smedley and Felipe to come out and bring this to light. He could have hidden it in a million different ways and the whole world would think Alonso got a deserved victory.

Felipe

PS, can anyone translate Lobato's blog musings about this

I agree too..

Doing a Webber is not the way to go (for one's own good).
And in the end it was clear that it was a team order.

[Cargo]

So, international members, what's the view around the world? Particularly interested in the Italian and Spanish view...

Also I have heard, via twitter, that the Brazilian press are crucifying Felipe....?

look here

http://www.totalf1.c...r_with_Ferrari/

its not just the brits that are putting the boot in...

[peroa]

I agree too..

Doing a Webber is not the way to go (for one's own good).
And in the end it was clear that it was a team order.

Why? Did he get fired? Did his RE who refused to tell him get fired? Did he lose points? Only because it's uncomfortable for some people?

The difference between Massa & Smedley and Webbo&his RE is that the latter showed balls, the former didn't, likewise Rubinho.

People are different though, some like to drive one of the best cars on the grid for the occasional win or two and a handsome paycheck, some want to be WDC.

[robefc]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the contributions.

It would be great if we could keep this to a thread about what the prevailing view is in different countries - both from media and message boards etc.

There are lots of threads to discuss our own views on the subject.

Thanks!

Rob

[prty]

So basically Brits, Germans and Brazilians make as big of a fuss as they can to hope for more penalties because it's to their interests, while Italians and Spaniards are OK with it, for the same reason, with the Brits having the most influence. How surprising, it has never happened before

[wrighty]

The 9am phone-in on BBC 5Live (the station that carries the F1 news, commentary etc etc) was entitled 'Is F1 a proper sport?'

[Ferrari2183]

Britain's Telegraph: "Ferrari were caught and must pay. But the rule is unenforceable. To pretend otherwise is deluded."

Gotta love the British press. Only they could have stated the obvious in, in well..., an obvious way.

[Gareth]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the contributions.

It would be great if we could keep this to a thread about what the prevailing view is in different countries - both from media and message boards etc.

There are lots of threads to discuss our own views on the subject.

Thanks!

Rob

Indeed - please stick to the topic, all. There are plenty of other threads on the rights and wrongs of the incident itself.

Thanks very much.

[michaelab]

Very impressed with Andrew Benson analysis at the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...s_f1_in_kn.html

Pragmatic and cuts through the bull. Totally agree with him, and it makes a change from the typical Ferrari bashing of the British media.

[Pampalini]

So far it's viewed as "nothing but the next one in the normal rows of scandals in F1". Even the commentators during the race suggested that the swap between the two should be done soon. I think the tabloids so far had no time to start a "poor little Massa who almost died here in Hungary just a year ago was robbed of his victory on his reborn anniversary" or something like that... When they start their teasers for the Hungaroring, last years events and Massa's name will come up and than the dance begins.

[rhukkas]

The 9am phone-in on BBC 5Live (the station that carries the F1 news, commentary etc etc) was entitled 'Is F1 a proper sport?'

And that is exactly the headline the FIA have been desperately trying to avoid. They've made crazy efforts with recent junior formula to eliminate professional racing from the sport and concentrate more on the sporting aspect.

With greater pressure being put on motorsport be greenies the FIA need F1 to be prestine in the public's view otherwise it'll lose the public support it desperately needs to validate itself.

[Nonesuch]

Some of the main newspapers in The Netherlands:

NRC Handelsblad - http://www.nrc.nl/sport/
No mention of the race on their website, yet.

Telegraaf - http://www.telegraaf.nl/
The article about the race quotes Christian Horner, Eddie Jordan, Fernando Alonso and Michael Schumacher. No opinion.

Volkskrant - http://www.volkskrant.nl/sport/
Article describes the event with some scepticism, noting that "Ferrari-driver Massa was told on the teamradio that his teammate Alonso was faster. And if he understood what this meant. Nothing more." It goes on: "Massa, who finished in second place, was thanked by the Ferrari team management with a simple 'sorry'." It concludes that "only second" was "tough on Massa", who had led the race until the "fatal phonecall". The article also mentions Massa's accident in Hungary last year, and notes that a victory for the Brazilian would thus have been "memorable". It further quotes Christian Horner, Eddie Jordan, Fernando Alonso, Felipe Massa.

Trouw - http://www.trouw.nl/nieuws/sport/
The main article gives a short report of the race. Another article focusses on the Ferrari teamorder, and features quotes from Christian Horner, Eddie Jordan, Fernando Alonso, Felipe Massa and Michael Schumacher.

Algemeen Dagblad - http://www.ad.nl/
The article about the race simply mentions the teamorders, the fine, and makes note of Massa's accident in Hungary a year ago. A second article about the teamorders describes the controversy, and quotes only Christian Horner.

Metro - http://www.readmetro.com/
The short article about the race is titled 'Dark clouds over Ferrari's victory', and makes note of the controversy, the fine and the teamorders. It quotes Stefano Domenicali, who describes the supposed order as merely a 'status update'. It concludes with Massa saying that he "is a professional".

It might also be worth noting that the Dutch TV commentary (Olav Mol, RTL) simply ridiculed the teamorder by sarcastically describing the event.

Edited by Nonesuch, 26 July 2010 - 13:15.

[jcbc3]

Danish tabloid Ekstrabladet

Headline is 'Ferrari punishment could get much worse.
Next blurb says: 'Italian cheaters got fined USD 100,000...'

[scheivlak]

Algemeen Dagblad - http://www.ad.nl/
The article about the race simply mentions the teamorders, the fine, and makes note of Massa's accident in Hungary a year ago. A second article about the teamorders describes the controversy, and quotes only Christian Horner.

That's the online version.

The paper version is more extensive, and extremely critical under the fat headline "Massa makes way".
"The only thing missing was Massa signalling with a flashing light that he was giving priority to the Spaniard."

The artcile further quotes Eddie Jordan, Horner, Massa himself ("with a laughable excuse"), Sebastian Vettel and Michael Schumacher(both defending him).

Edited by scheivlak, 26 July 2010 - 12:16.

[billkaos]

PS, can anyone translate Lobato's blog musings about this

Well, in his post-race analysis on TV, he just said the faster driver won and that was the right thing to do for the team, not really different from what Ferrari said.

[robefc]

Thanks guys,

Pampalini - take it that was the Hungarian view?

Any italian/spanish speaking folk about?

[Nonesuch]

That's the online version.

The paper version is more extensive, and extremely critical under the fat headline "Massa makes way".
"The only thing missing was Massa signalling with a flashing light that he was giving priority to the Spaniard."

Thanks for that addition.

[kismet]

Meanwhile in Finland, our F1 broadcaster MTV3 seemed surprised and almost indignant that anyone would have a problem with what happened. Their reasoning was that it happens all the time and everyone does it so who cares. YLE, the local equivalent of BBC, took the at-that-point-still-ongoing stewards' investigation as nothing but a formality (Paraphrased: "Here are the GP results. Yes, there's an investigation but nothing will come of it because this is no big deal.")

I haven't read what the print media have to say yet, but I imagine some of them may at least pretend to be a bit more outraged and/or disappointed.

[Mr2s]

Meanwhile in Finland, our F1 broadcaster MTV3 seemed surprised and almost indignant that anyone would have a problem with what happened. Their reasoning was that it happens all the time and everyone does it so who cares. YLE, the local equivalent of BBC, took the at-that-point-still-ongoing stewards' investigation as nothing but a formality (Paraphrased: "Here are the GP results. Yes, there's an investigation but nothing will come of it because this is no big deal.")

I haven't read what the print media have to say yet, but I imagine some of them may at least pretend to be a bit more outraged and/or disappointed.

Finland sounds like a great place to live providing you also have no fanboys.

Edited by Gareth, 26 July 2010 - 14:11.

[placebo76]

In Spain they are talking about the shameful behavior of the british journalists after the race with Vettel trying to leave the place

[jcbc3]

Then the Spanish don't understand the role of journalists. They are there to probe and dig. They are even allowed to play the Devils advocate in order to get all angles of a story covered.

[Slartibartfast]

PS, can anyone translate Lobato's blog musings about this

Liberally translated:

But, soft! what light through yonder window breaks?
It is the east, and Fernando is the sun.
Arise, fair sun, and kill the envious Massa,
Who is already sick and pale with grief,
That thou her maid art far more fair than she:
Be not her maid, since she is envious;
Her vestal livery is but sick and green
And none but fools do wear it; cast it off.
It is my 'Nando, O, it is my love!
O, that he knew he were!
He speaks yet he says nothing: what of that?
His eye discourses; I will answer it.
I am too bold, 'tis not to me he speaks:
Two of the fairest stars in all the heaven,
Having some business, do entreat his eyes
To twinkle in their spheres till they return.
What if his eyes were there, they in his head?
The brightness of his cheek would shame those stars,
As daylight doth a lamp; his eyes in heaven
Would through the airy region stream so bright
That birds would sing and think it were not night.
See, how he leans his cheek upon his hand!
O, that I were a glove upon that hand,
That I might touch that cheek!

I may not have got the bit about the sun completely right, it may have been that Fernando is the sun, or may have been something about an orifice and the source of the sunlight.

[artista]

In Spain they are talking about the shameful behavior of the british journalists after the race with Vettel trying to leave the place

In Spain, it depends on which media you read (or watch). My dad watched yesterday the race in laSexta and ended up with the feeling that this all was a complot to make Hamilton win the championship. On the other hand, my brother (a hard-core alonsist) listened to the race in Formula Ser and called me to ask if I knew how hard the penalty against Ferrari could be, since they had acted so blatantly against the rules. From there, I can guess, the versions about the “incident” in laSexta and Formula Ser were absolutely different.

It’s true, some written media, like Marca, are attacking the British media
http://www.marca.com...1280125896.html

But for example, El País, has done a very critic analysis of yesterday’s race, and that includes Ferrari’s wall, Massa AND Alonso.

http://www.elpais.co...elpepidep_8/Tes
http://www.elpais.co...lpepidep_10/Tes

And Manel Serrás is answering right now questions in “El País”. http://www.elpais.co...?encuentro=7029

This is one example of what he’s being asked, and what he answers:

Don Manel, me parece que lo que se le critica a Ferrari es la forma y no el hecho. Esto me resulta algo hipócrita, se permite si se engaña con elegancia. ¿Qué opina usted?

Que en cualquier circunstancia de la vida, las formas son cruciales. Si existe una prohibición, todo el mundo intenta soslayarla de la mejor manera posible. Si no pueden darse órdenes de equipo, las escuderías disimulan y advierten a uno de sus pilotos que no le queda gasolina, o que su motor corre peligro y debe bajar el regimen. Y todo el mundo lo entiende. Pero Ferrari tiene una prepotencia que ya demostró en Gran Bretaña, donde creyó que la FIA no iba a atreverse con ellos y que le permitiría a Alonso pasar a Kubica por encima de la chicane. Hay cosas que no están permitidas. Y Ferrari no puede ser una excepción.

Translation (I’m a really bad interpreter. If somebody has a better translation, please, feel free to correct me):

Question: Don Manel, I think what people are criticising is the way Ferrari did things not what they did. I find this a little hypocritical, cheating is allowed if it’s done with elegance. What do you think?

Anwer: As in any other circumstance of life, the manners (ways to do things) are crucial. If there is a ban, everyone tries to circumvent it the best possible way. If team orders are not allowed, the teams disguise them and warn one of the drivers about not having enough fuel, or about his engine being in danger and to take down the revs. And everybody understands it. But Ferrari has this arrogance, already shown in Britain, where they thought the FIA would not dare to take any actions against them and would allow Alonso pass Kubica cutting the chicane. There are things that are not allowed. And Ferrari can not be an exception.

[placebo76]

Then the Spanish don't understand the role of journalists. They are there to probe and dig. They are even allowed to play the Devils advocate in order to get all angles of a story covered.

Insulting only probes one thing, their lack of education. If you behave like a hooligan, you are not a journalist.

Maybe they were digging for something when they called him dirty champion

[VoRteX]

I don't know if this will prove popular or not but I'm interested in hearing how press from around the world view controversial incidents in F1 - and this weekend seems like a good weekend to start!

I imagine most are aware from the press conference that the british press have been pretty scathing. Admittedly it was 2 british tabloid hacks asking the questions but the papers have continued in the same vein today. Part of this might be because it's a) ferrari and b) alonso but I don't think it's limited to that, the british press are pefectly capable of being scathing about their own too when they feel it's appropriate.

So, international members, what's the view around the world? Particularly interested in the Italian and Spanish view...

Also I have heard, via twitter, that the Brazilian press are crucifying Felipe....?

link to the press conference transcript
http://www.formula1....10/7/11072.html

n/c

[wj_gibson]

Then the Spanish don't understand the role of journalists. They are there to probe and dig. They are even allowed to play the Devils advocate in order to get all angles of a story covered.

The journos in question (one from NotW and the other from the Mirror) were not "probing and digging", they were clearly trying to provoke Alonso into making a comment that could be used as a headline to shift more papers by further casting him as a pantomime villain.

Serious journos such as James Allen or Tony Dodgins steer well clear of this type of nonsense, recognising it for precisely what it is - ****-stirring.

[velgajski1]

So basically Brits, Germans and Brazilians make as big of a fuss as they can to hope for more penalties because it's to their interests, while Italians and Spaniards are OK with it, for the same reason, with the Brits having the most influence. How surprising, it has never happened before

And those that have no part in F1 (Croatia here) had this:

"Ferrari circus punished", "Listen pal, you have to lose, sorry", "Massa: I deserved to win", "Alonso victory costs 100k dollars", "Double victory for Ferrari: Massa fixed victory for Alonso", "Dissapointed Brazilian: I don't want to speak about it"

For those that don't know, Croatia is neighbor to Italy

Edited by velgajski1, 26 July 2010 - 15:09.

[placebo76]

And those that have no part in F1 (Croatia here) had this:

"Ferrari circus punished", "Listen pal, you have to lose, sorry", "Massa: I deserved to win", "Alonso victory costs 100k dollars", "Double victory for Ferrari: Massa fixed victory for Alonso", "Dissapointed Brazilian: I don't want to speak about it"

For those that don't know, Croatia is neighbor to Italy

But, are you two good neighbors?

BTW, been there a year ago. Drove from Zadar to Dubrovnik, wonderful country!!

[jcbc3]

The journos in question (one from NotW and the other from the Mirror) were not "probing and digging", they were clearly trying to provoke Alonso into making a comment that could be used as a headline to shift more papers by further casting him as a pantomime villain.

Serious journos such as James Allen or Tony Dodgins steer well clear of this type of nonsense, recognising it for precisely what it is - sh1t-stirring.

They were probing and digging to get a reaction other than the blatant lies from Alonso. Maybe even an angry outburst or a walk out. Seeing the reactions on these boards, I would imagine that many here would have loved to see Fernando lose it. Since he apparently think he 'won' the race.

Btw, I love the way you talk down on NOTW and Mirror and how Doggins us the word 'mouth breathers' descrbing the readers of NOTW. very classy.
And Fernando himself has contributed significantly to his own image as a pantomime character with his manipilating comments after Spain.

[placebo76]

Q: (Miran Alisic - Korpmedia) I have a question for Sebastian. I think you had some not similar but close situations with Mark as well. Do you feel proud that what has happened at Ferrari today hasn't happened in your team?
SV: Don't you have another question maybe? Yeah, maybe they should have crashed. [...] For sure my advice would not be it's better to crash because also then you get a lot of questions that you have to answer so...

[Onyemaechi]

In Spain they are talking about the shameful behavior of the british journalists after the race with Vettel trying to leave the place

Uuuuhmmm what were the British journalists supposed to do? Nod and type every Bullshyte Stefano Domenicali and Luca Colajani had to say???

[kar]

But, are you two good neighbors?

Not in August...

Edited by kar, 26 July 2010 - 16:02.

[ensign14]

According to a Swedish report, there was something in the air last night, and the stars were bright and shining for Alonso and Massa, and indeed for liberty. Ferrari said that they never thought that they could lose, and there's no regret. Indeed, if they had to do the same again, they would.

[kooratzi]

According to a Swedish report, there was something in the air last night, and the stars were bright and shining for Alonso and Massa, and indeed for liberty. Ferrari said that they never thought that they could lose, and there's no regret. Indeed, if they had to do the same again, they would.

...My friend Luca :-)

[Flamini]

Uuuuhmmm what were the British journalists supposed to do? Nod and type every Bullshyte Stefano Domenicali and Luca Colajani had to say???

Wait a minute. In Germany 2008 McLaren told Heikki over team radio that Lewis is faster than him. Hekki let him pass him.

After the race Hamilton said: "What a great teammate Heikki is".

And British press called it "a gentleman maneuver".

[RobH]

Wait a minute. In Germany 2008 McLaren told Heikki over team radio that Lewis is faster than him. Hekki let him pass him.

After the race Hamilton said: "What a great teammate Heikki is".

And British press called it "a gentleman maneuver".

Circumstances, my friend, circumstances. Kova was nearly 2s off the pace and had no chance of doing anything of note; he had no chance of winning but Hamilton did. What was taken away from Kova was not the same as what was taken away from Massa. But try to paint that picture if it makes you feel better.

Edited by RobH, 26 July 2010 - 16:26.

[velgajski1]

But, are you two good neighbors?

BTW, been there a year ago. Drove from Zadar to Dubrovnik, wonderful country!!

Thanks

Well, don't want to scare Brits, but believe me that Croats like Italians much more than they like Brits

[J]

Meanwhile in Finland, our F1 broadcaster MTV3 seemed surprised and almost indignant that anyone would have a problem with what happened. Their reasoning was that it happens all the time and everyone does it so who cares. YLE, the local equivalent of BBC, took the at-that-point-still-ongoing stewards' investigation as nothing but a formality (Paraphrased: "Here are the GP results. Yes, there's an investigation but nothing will come of it because this is no big deal.")

I haven't read what the print media have to say yet, but I imagine some of them may at least pretend to be a bit more outraged and/or disappointed.

Well, that´s not quite how I saw it on the MTV3 MAX digichannel...

In any case, the largest news paper in Finland (Helsingin Sanomat) had a headline "Ferrari orders Alonso to be the winner" No points for guessing, that they weren´t too impressed by the events. In the story itself the reporter (Juha Päätalo) tells how the spanish press forwarded bomb threats to him, because he asked an uncomfortable question (uncomfortable for Alonso)in press confrence. Later the reporters said it was all jest.. Päätalo was not impressed.

Then the two largest tabloids

Iltalehti:

"Alonsos long dry spell ends in a ridiculous manner"

Iltasanomat:

"Alonso to victory by a team order"

The largest webzine

Uusisuomi:

"Ferrari´s unbeliavable reaction"

The story is about how Ferrari dares to claim that there weren´t any team orders..


-J

Edited by J, 26 July 2010 - 16:35.

[scheivlak]

And British press called it "a gentleman maneuver".

And apart from what RobH says, there is no such thing as the "British press".
Just like there is no such thing as 'the Spanish press'. El Pais is not Marca.

[brett_sequeira]

From the Times of India

http://timesofindia....how/6216791.cms

[Ashe]

Not sure whether it counts, but the Tony Dodgins subscriber only article on Autosport is pretty much nonsense. I notice he didn't ask any questions about the issue yesterday in the press conference, but asked a question about the clean/dirty side of the track instead.

http://www.autosport...cle.php/id/2952

He ignores the clear fact that team orders are now illegal, which conveniently lets him wrongly bash Eddie Jordan for hypocrisy in the second to last sentence - when EJ was fully open about the fact that he did it whilst it was legal. If that's meant to be a 'premium' feature, then I suggest Autosport get better writers - unless all they're interested in is page hit counts.

Edited by Ashe, 26 July 2010 - 17:01.

[bourbon]

Los Angeles Times has the story buried in the back of the Auto Racing Section - which is relegated to the back of the sports section, lol. (Nascar is given priority, including pics of Danica for no reason whatsoever). Headline: "Ferrari fined $100,000 for illegal team orders in top finish in German Grand Prix" and it pretty much just tells the tale of what happened with the quotes everyone is using. Then in a subheadline: "MASSA SYMPATHY" and it goes on to talk of his injury and how it should have been his day. It talks about the press conference giving a pretty fair rendering of the session in as far as how harsh the reporters were being and Alonso/Massa's equanamity (and Massa's obvious unhappiness). It gave a funny rendering of the moment Vettel asked to leave and then went back to talking about some of the questions asked and the comparisons with Piquet 2008 crashgate and Schumi 2002 in Oz. Then it finishes up with a few comments about the rest of the race and the outcome for other drivers. No real forboding comments to end the article in terms of the fate of Ferrari - it finishes off by saying that Vitaly got his first top 10 finish since April.

ETA: you can go over to Speedtv.com and see for yourself how inferior the coverage is. F1 news in the US is sad at best unless something truly remarkable happens.

Edited by bourbon, 26 July 2010 - 17:13.

[kismet]

Well, that´s not quite how I saw it on the MTV3 MAX digichannel...

Well, I don't have that channel - I only saw MTV3's general sports news broadcast. I came home, switched the TV on and fully expected to hear an indignant rant about Ferrari's lack of sportsmanship and morals but instead I got a "Yeah, so?" editorial from Oskari Saari. Frankly, I was amazed.

That our tabloids have taken a dimmer view on what went on does not surprise me at all. I suspected they would - after all, that's how they earn their keep!

[J]

Well, I don't have that channel - I only saw MTV3's general sports news broadcast. I came home, switched the TV on and fully expected to hear an indignant rant about Ferrari's lack of sportsmanship and morals but instead I got a "Yeah, so?" editorial from Oskari Saari. Frankly, I was amazed.

That our tabloids have taken a dimmer view on what went on does not surprise me at all. I suspected they would - after all, that's how they earn their keep!

I figured that was the case. Did not mean to imply that you weren´t telling it straight.

-J

[Taxi]

Portugal:

Biggest selling paper: Ferrari forces Massa to lose. http://www.cmjornal....-massa-a-perder

One of the most credible papers, DN, Title's: Fernando is faster than you. understood the message? http://dn.sapo.pt/de...tent_id=1626863

Other papers talk about the end of Alonso's draw being tainted by this antics.

I'm just wating for the Portuguese Autosport print version, now.

Edited by Taxi, 26 July 2010 - 17:40.

[grazioli82]

http://www.as.com/mo...dasdaimot_1/Tes

Carlos Miquel's moronic but addictive scribblings:

Alonso took his second win of the season at Hockenheim in dominant fashion and Ferrari secured the 1-2 that was just reward for the fastest team of the weekend.

The Asturian was faster than Felipe Massa in Friday and Saturday practice, in qualifying (0.2s a lap comparing each's best lap) and in the race.

And after overtaking the Brazilian, who accelerated far less than he should have, he took 3 seconds out of him in just 5 laps.

But his impressive weekend, the start of the longed-for fightback in the championship (now 34 points behind Hamilton) was tinged off the track by the penalty for his team because they asked the Brazilian to let him past.

In total 80,000 Euros (Ferrari won't appeal) and an appearance before the WMC for giving team orders that interfered with the result.

No-one will take the victory away from him and the Council are thought to be analysing the incident to improve the penalization process in the future.

The ordinary management of the team, the ill-conceived pride of a driver who has no chance of the title (78 behind Hamilton at start of race and caught by Vettel due to his lack of pace) and a yobbish race engineer, Rob Smedley, caused the sky to fall in on Maranello yet again.

Red Bull and McLaren had already given team orders this year (and again yesterday, preventing Hamilton attacking Button, "Save fuel") but was not looked into.

This time it was though, with the help of a certain Smedley, who told the number 7 car: "Can you confirm you understand the message?"

And later, with the race over:

"Im sorry Felipe, you know it could have turned out better"

Now, no-one is condeming these conversations.

And, of course, The Brazilian, instead of disguising it as he did at Interlagos 2007, decided to come to almost a complete stop after the hairpin so the whole world could see he was doing it on purpose.

This could have all been sorted out on the pit wall by adding an extra second to Massa's pitstop. After the first stop his pace slowed on the hards and when Alonso nearly got by him on the outside, he slammed the door shut and they nearly collided.

The Oviedo driver said on the radio: "This is ridiculous!"

What would we have said to Domenicali if theyd crashed for the sake of creating a spectacle?

The Sao Paulan had taken advantage of the great fight between Alonso and Vettel. The German trapped him against the wall after a great start by the red cars. And Felipe took them on the outside yet failed to remember you should take turn 1 on the tarmac and not the run-off area

A GP2 driver was penalised for this but in F1, with different a different stewards panel, it wasn't the case.

The stewards summoned the Ferrari drivers, sporting director Massimo Rivola and the boss Stefano Domenicali. They all suggested it was Massa's own decision, within the rules, but they were still penalised under 39.1 (preventing team orders interfering with the race result) and 151c (for bringing the sport into disrepute)

The first of these was brought in after Barrichello let Schumi past in Austria 2002